Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[SonicLink125]

https://twitter.com/shinobi602/status/1162434157441691648
So, I just discovered this today. I don’t want to jump to conclusions here, but this is very intriguing!

(Sorry. I still can’t seem to post the tweet like you guys can. I don’t know why. )

 

[Guynamednelson]

(Sorry. I still can’t seem to post the tweet like you guys can. I don’t know why. )

Click the ... icon, select Media, paste the Twitter link.

 

[SonicLink125]

Click the ... icon, select Media, paste the Twitter link.

I have tried (many times actually), but it keeps giving me this message:

 

[N3ON]

For the sake of simplicity, here's the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

From the guy who leaked Banjo.

With that in mind, I still think it best to not read much into this. This guy is a resetera admin, he posts a bunch without it meaning anything.

I'd definitely choose Isaac in Smash, simply because of the immortalization of being in. Isaac (and by extension, Golden Sun) will forever live on as a Smash character, and as we've seen (Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, Pit, Fire Emblem, etc.) Smash leads to opportunities for the series it showcases. Of course, if a new GS was the only option, I wouldn't turn it down, but I personally believe Isaac in Smash would lead to a continuation of the series.

Well one would probably lead to the other regardless of which actually happened, hence why the hypothetical was that the one unchosen would never happen. Fair enough though!

 

[ZelDan]

Even if it's not a hint it's still a statement of truth.

 

[N3ON]

Even if it's not a hint it's still a statement of truth.

Even if they're good, every Mario Sports game is an act of cowardice.

It is known.

 

[ZelDan]

There's also Waluigi, a popular character that many people want to see in Smash or see have his own games, who is also stuck in Mario spinoff purgatory.

Perhaps the true villain of the Nintendoverse has been the Mario spin-offs this whole time.

 

[FlawedAI]

What if the Takahashi bros. did something to piss off Nintendo higher-ups and they've been punished with spin-off purgatory? Truly a darkest of fates.

 

[Ura]

For the sake of simplicity, here's the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

From the guy who leaked Banjo.

With that in mind, I still think it best to not read much into this. This guy is a resetera admin, he posts a bunch without it meaning anything.

Yeah Shinobi is a big fan of Golden Sun & Advance Wars IIRC. Him saying this is most likely just sharing the sentiment we all have more than it is a hint at anything.

Also, his Banjo hint was a lot more straightforward and there was no ambiguity about what it was. So I don't think he's one to subtly hint at things.

What if the Takahashi bros. did something to piss off Nintendo higher-ups and they've been punished with spin-off purgatory? Truly a darkest of fates.

I shared a headcanon with N3ON that Sakurai has Isaac locked in his basement to get back at the Takahashi Bros for doing something to him.

And given the past November Smash Direct, maybe there was some truth to that crackpot theory? With both Isaac and Waluigi as AT's. Heh heh heh.

 

[SonicLink125]

Yeah Shinobi is a big fan of Golden Sun & Advance Wars IIRC. Him saying this is most likely just sharing the sentiment we all have more than it is a hint at anything.

Also, his Banjo hint was a lot more straightforward and there was no ambiguity about what it was. So I don't think he's one to subtly hint at things.

Yeah. Sadly, I’m more inclined to believe that it’s nothing more than him stating what we all want. However, it’s still intriguing of him to say that nearly a month before a September Direct out of the blue like that. I still would keep an eye on it, but also expect nothing from it. Who knows really?


https://youtu.be/45Xekkoc-rI
This Battle! [Jenna] cover is amazing! I don’t know why it doesn’t have more views. It’s ! He also has 3 other GS covers too.

 

[Undella2]

With The Completionist now having completed Golden Sun 1 on his channel, hopefully it brings more light to the series for those who previously didn't feel compelled to play through.

 

[Altais]

The Final Fantasy VII remake inspired me to think of something.

I think it would be amazing if Monolith Soft remade the first two Golden Sun games. It could be virtually the same game, just in full 3D & HD, along with some added diversity. I personally would like it to run on the same engine as Xenoblade Chronicles X. Unlike the GBA games, where you could only jump across small gaps, in the remake you could jump whenever you wanted. The world map could be a lot more vast, and have a lot more trees with hanging items to use Catch on, more vines on which to use Whirlwind, and so on. There could even be whole new field psynergy.

As for the battles, they could still be turn-based, but instead of random appearances, they could take a more Baten Kaitos-esque approach, where you see enemies walking around the field. Touching one would cause a battle. Golden Sun 2 had an unlockable hard mode--so I'd like an option to change the difficulty at any time.

If memory serves me, Golden Sun 1&2 were originally intended to be one game--so for the remake, they could merge both games together so you don't have to transfer data.

What say you lot?

 

[GoodGrief741]

The Final Fantasy VII remake inspired me to think of something.

I think it would be amazing if Monolith Soft remade the first two Golden Sun games. It could be virtually the same game, just in full 3D & HD, along with some added diversity. I personally would like it to run on the same engine as Xenoblade Chronicles X. Unlike the GBA games, where you could only jump across small gaps, in the remake you could jump whenever you wanted. The world map could be a lot more vast, and have a lot more trees with hanging items to use Catch on, more vines on which to use Whirlwind, and so on. There could even be whole new field psynergy.

As for the battles, they could still be turn-based, but instead of random appearances, they could take a more Baten Kaitos-esque approach, where you see enemies walking around the field. Touching one would cause a battle. Golden Sun 2 had an unlockable hard mode--so I'd like an option to change the difficulty at any time.

If memory serves me, Golden Sun 1&2 were originally intended to be one game--so for the remake, they could merge both games together so you don't have to transfer data.

What say you lot?

Seems like a very high budget game for what is kind of a risky proposition (in theory - in practice I find that big budget games generally tend to garner interest solely because of their look) but I'd love to see something like that.

 

[clearandsweet]

I think it would be amazing if Monolith Soft remade the first two Golden Sun games.

I remember Monolithsoft had their next thing all ready to go pretty soon after Xenoblade Chronicles 2 came out. They were hiring for it and talking about a large open world and some ideas. They're very much their own company in many respects, been doing their open-world 3D JRPG thing since Xenogears and forever ago and just happened to fall into Nintendo.

Another thing is that it's _very_ rude and unlikely, almost unheard of, to take an original IP from one studio and shove it to another. Even if the brothers Takahashi are involved, that's not going to happen. We're better off hoping that Camelot and NPD2 don't have any announced game for quite some time.

Furthermore, there are games on the scale of Octopath Traveler and then there are those on the scale of Xenoblade Chronicles X or 2. They are hardly the same thing, with hardly the same budget and resources. Hell, Fire Emblem Three Houses took 3+ years, Koei Tecmo AND the much larger Intelligent Systems. Golden Sun 4 would most certainly be closer to Octopath... or releasing in 2022. Once they reboot the franchise... give it its Awakening, show it can sell... then you get the AAA budget big game next.

That said, would that be awesome? Hell ****ing ya it would. One of the best things about the games was the living, breathing world, and Monolithsoft does that better than anyone.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If the old games get re-released, remastered or remade in some way someday...

Just hope that this doesn't happen: http://www.nintendolife.com/reviews/switch-eshop/grandia_hd_collection

I don't know how GungHo messed up remastering these games, but they did.

 

[BerBer456]

Hey guys I’m brand new here, but I just wanted to tell you that the completionist uploaded his new video and it’s Golden Sun this week! We better take advantage of this opportunity!

 

[GoodGrief741]

If the old games get re-released, remastered or remade in some way someday...

Just hope that this doesn't happen: http://www.nintendolife.com/reviews/switch-eshop/grandia_hd_collection

I don't know how GungHo messed up remastering these games, but they did.

Well **** thanks for the heads up, I was considering buying.

 

[Altais]

Seems like a very high budget game for what is kind of a risky proposition (in theory - in practice I find that big budget games generally tend to garner interest solely because of their look) but I'd love to see something like that.

Yikes, didn't consider that. Now that I've re-thought it, that would be pretty risky, since most modern gamers don't know about Golden Sun. Monolith did have a hand in Zelda: Breath of the Wild, but the Zelda series is much more well-known.

I remember Monolithsoft had their next thing all ready to go pretty soon after Xenoblade Chronicles 2 came out. They were hiring for it and talking about a large open world and some ideas. They're very much their own company in many respects, been doing their open-world 3D JRPG thing since Xenogears and forever ago and just happened to fall into Nintendo.

Another thing is that it's _very_ rude and unlikely, almost unheard of, to take an original IP from one studio and shove it to another. Even if the brothers Takahashi are involved, that's not going to happen. We're better off hoping that Camelot and NPD2 don't have any announced game for quite some time.

Furthermore, there are games on the scale of Octopath Traveler and then there are those on the scale of Xenoblade Chronicles X or 2. They are hardly the same thing, with hardly the same budget and resources. Hell, Fire Emblem Three Houses took 3+ years, Koei Tecmo AND the much larger Intelligent Systems. Golden Sun 4 would most certainly be closer to Octopath... or releasing in 2022. Once they reboot the franchise... give it its Awakening, show it can sell... then you get the AAA budget big game next.

That said, would that be awesome? Hell ****ing ya it would. One of the best things about the games was the living, breathing world, and Monolithsoft does that better than anyone.

Points well taken.

I totally forgot about that project. Yes, I remember them saying they were hiring for something. Whether it's the Breath of the Wild sequel or something else, though, I'm not certain. That said, I can both understand and respect why game developers would rather work on their own original products instead of using someone else's IP.

 

[ZelDan]

The Completionist's video on the first GS was good, although he almost sounded kind sick or something in the middle I think. I wonder how he'd feel about The Lost Age or if that'd get the "complete it" rating. getting to level 50+ would likely be easier in that game with it being longer and larger.

Watching the vid and hearing about GS's history again, something did pop in my head. I started to get curious about how things would have been if, instead of Golden Sun being seperated into 2 GBA games, what if it ended up on the N64 as one big game as planned? maybe they would have started planning and developing the game sooner than they did and would have felt more comfortable keeping it on N64 without the GC to potentially muddy things.

Would such a game have been more successful? More successful to the point that GS would have had more of a future and more games and maybe already have playable representation in Smash? Or maybe it would have been less successful than the GBA game, and would have had less sales and positive reception to the point we might not even have this support thread.

I'm also curious about how it would have looked visually. While I appreciate GS's gameplay, music, and story, what probably drew a good chunk of people to the game were it's impressive GBA graphics and art direction. Meanwhile N64 game today aren't exactly known for being a looker these days...

 

[GoodGrief741]

The Completionist's video on the first GS was good, although he almost sounded kind sick or something in the middle I think. I wonder how he'd feel about The Lost Age or if that'd get the "complete it" rating. getting to level 50+ would likely be easier in that game with it being longer and larger.

Watching the vid and hearing about GS's history again, something did pop in my head. I started to get curious about how things would have been if, instead of Golden Sun being seperated into 2 GBA games, what if it ended up on the N64 as one big game as planned? maybe they would have started planning and developing the game sooner than they did and would have felt more comfortable keeping it on N64 without the GC to potentially muddy things.

Would such a game have been more successful? More successful to the point that GS would have had more of a future and more games and maybe already have playable representation in Smash? Or maybe it would have been less successful than the GBA game, and would have had less sales and positive reception to the point we might not even have this support thread.

I'm also curious about how it would have looked visually. While I appreciate GS's gameplay, music, and story, what probably drew a good chunk of people to the game were it's impressive GBA graphics and art direction. Meanwhile N64 game today aren't exactly known for being a looker these days...

Given how ambitious GS is and how console games get much more respect, I think Nintendo could have given Final Fantasy a run for its money on N64. We'd certainly have Isaac in Smash too.

 

[SonicLink125]

Given how ambitious GS is and how console games get much more respect, I think Nintendo could have given Final Fantasy a run for its money on N64. We'd certainly have Isaac in Smash too.

I’m not too sure on that. If it was released on the N64, it would have been during its dying days and we know what happened with Dark Dawn on a dying DS. Now, if it was on the GameCube, it’s possible that it could have done ok. I don’t know. How many successful RPGs were on the GameCube? I got a GameCube a few months before the Wii came out.

 

[ZelDan]

I’m not too sure on that. If it was released on the N64, it would have been during its dying days and we know what happened with Dark Dawn on a dying DS. Now, if it was on the GameCube, it’s possible that it could have done ok. I don’t know. How many successful RPGs were on the GameCube? I got a GameCube a few months before the Wii came out.

Thousand Year Door
Tales of Symphonia

Only other RPGs that comes to mind right now is Skies of Arcadia and Baten Kaitos, though I'm not sure if those were "successful"

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Meanwhile, the vast majority of games were on portables, yet it was still as healthy as ever. Also, Ware Gold was undeniably seen as a good game despite its sales being limited by a dying console. Both aren't RPGs, but that's besides the point.

If anything, the issue is that Camelot's bleeding quality talent lately. Dark Dawn's perceived lesser quality was the first red flag about that.

I remember Monolithsoft had their next thing all ready to go pretty soon after Xenoblade Chronicles 2 came out. They were hiring for it and talking about a large open world and some ideas. They're very much their own company in many respects, been doing their open-world 3D JRPG thing since Xenogears and forever ago and just happened to fall into Nintendo.

Another thing is that it's _very_ rude and unlikely, almost unheard of, to take an original IP from one studio and shove it to another. Even if the brothers Takahashi are involved, that's not going to happen. We're better off hoping that Camelot and NPD2 don't have any announced game for quite some time.

Furthermore, there are games on the scale of Octopath Traveler and then there are those on the scale of Xenoblade Chronicles X or 2. They are hardly the same thing, with hardly the same budget and resources. Hell, Fire Emblem Three Houses took 3+ years, Koei Tecmo AND the much larger Intelligent Systems. Golden Sun 4 would most certainly be closer to Octopath... or releasing in 2022. Once they reboot the franchise... give it its Awakening, show it can sell... then you get the AAA budget big game next.

That said, would that be awesome? Hell ****ing ya it would. One of the best things about the games was the living, breathing world, and Monolithsoft does that better than anyone.

Yeah, it just goes back into what I've been saying about Nintendo developers, culturally speaking; their respective departments feel more comfortable using their own creations rather than those of other people to mess around with (except those that are selling points, of course). The fact that no one in the entire Ninty infrastructure willingly wants to do anything with Golden Sun except the Takahashi brothers is part of the problem, though.

 

[SonicLink125]

https://twitter.com/shinobi602/status/1166132790334808066
Huh? Another Golden Sun tweet from him? Neat!
Would a “Link’s Awakening” style Golden Sun work? I kind of like the idea, but I’m having a hard time picturing it in my head.

 

[KoopaSaki]

To think just one year ago I was losing sleep as I was jumping aboard the Isaac Hype Train when I saw the trademark renewed and that Rathalos Tweet along with BillyBo10Ks video on Isaac. While it is unfortunate that we did not quite get what we hoped for, I am going to keep fighting for Isaac and Golden Sun to return. Truth be told I wasn't a dedicated Isaac supporter until all that hype came a year ago and I gotta say its been a wonderful ride supporting the character so may Golden Sun someday rise again.

 

[Gioka]

We are entering a crucial moment (once again, good lord) with the possible Nintendo direct and the various SKUs mentioned. On the best side of things we could get something GS announced, confirming that Nintendo did something with the information about the love and demand from Ballot, Isaac's assist trophy sadness, Golden Sunday, the trademark trend on Twitter and the letter campaign. Now being a little more on the realistic side, we stand hoping there is no Mario Golf or other sport thing developed by Camelot. Either of those would be the worst case scenario, imo

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

Hey, bros. Hope you're good.

This has probably already been touched on, but the first time I saw Octopath gameplay, it really reminded me of GS.
You know how GS has these really unique particles? I kinda got the same vibe.

I would really like to see a GS game in that styles, maybe a bit more 3D but with that old sprite feel. Couple that with new Motoi Sakuraba GS music and it'd make my YEAR. And the thing is that, for me at least, I got that 'guuud' vibe from the box art of the first two game DD I love you too. Idk how to word it but once you play, it all just feels mystical, like everything there fits really well; the music and the visuals go hand in hand.

Also seeing a Monolith GS game would be wack; probably out of the question for now (unless Nintendo really wanna push it sometime) but hype-inducing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To answer the question on last page, I'd take a new GS. Only cause they never resolved Dark Dawn's story. Plus, maybe we'd get a chance to fight a certain someone. (Nah, not really, let's be real. He'll never be fought).

I want Isaac in Smash too, don't get me wrong, but his popularity only continues to skyrocket. Plus, he's still in the game in some way. Better than what happened in 4...

 

[N3ON]

Closure regarding our discussion a page back about whether Hero's presentation was truly due to budgetary reasons:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Additional translated details:
- They would need someone to write out the script, and someone to make the video. It would also take Sakurai away from (other work) to work on the video. Especially since it's downloadable contents, it has a fixed price. Sakurai can't distract the development process!
- So, Sakurai decided to ad lib the presentation. There was no script. Sakurai decided general things to talk about but he just kind of threw it together. It was comparable to a YouTuber. While he was talking he was controlling the game by himself, with no help, the whole time.
- Because it was just Sakurai, he didn't need to pay for someone else to be in the video. He also didn't need people to record the footage. Editing the video was short -- it took less than 2 hours. Of course it needed to be translated, but this method was the most cost effective.
- On the flip side, it did take Sakurai away from the studio for a bit. Also, his hand was in pain but Sakurai figures these are necessary costs.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Closure regarding our discussion a page back about whether Hero's presentation was truly due to budgetary reasons:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Additional translated details:
- They would need someone to write out the script, and someone to make the video. It would also take Sakurai away from (other work) to work on the video. Especially since it's downloadable contents, it has a fixed price. Sakurai can't distract the development process!
- So, Sakurai decided to ad lib the presentation. There was no script. Sakurai decided general things to talk about but he just kind of threw it together. It was comparable to a YouTuber. While he was talking he was controlling the game by himself, with no help, the whole time.
- Because it was just Sakurai, he didn't need to pay for someone else to be in the video. He also didn't need people to record the footage. Editing the video was short -- it took less than 2 hours. Of course it needed to be translated, but this method was the most cost effective.
- On the flip side, it did take Sakurai away from the studio for a bit. Also, his hand was in pain but Sakurai figures these are necessary costs.

Sounds like Sakurai's doing way too much. I respect the man for his work ethic, but he shouldn't try to do everything by himself.

 

[Xenigma]

Closure regarding our discussion a page back about whether Hero's presentation was truly due to budgetary reasons:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Additional translated details:
- They would need someone to write out the script, and someone to make the video. It would also take Sakurai away from (other work) to work on the video. Especially since it's downloadable contents, it has a fixed price. Sakurai can't distract the development process!
- So, Sakurai decided to ad lib the presentation. There was no script. Sakurai decided general things to talk about but he just kind of threw it together. It was comparable to a YouTuber. While he was talking he was controlling the game by himself, with no help, the whole time.
- Because it was just Sakurai, he didn't need to pay for someone else to be in the video. He also didn't need people to record the footage. Editing the video was short -- it took less than 2 hours. Of course it needed to be translated, but this method was the most cost effective.
- On the flip side, it did take Sakurai away from the studio for a bit. Also, his hand was in pain but Sakurai figures these are necessary costs.

Honestly, my biggest takeaway from this is that Nintendo is shortchanging Sakurai's team. Can Nintendo really not be bothered to continue to give Smash a reasonable marketing budget, even if it is only for DLC?

 

[SonicLink125]

Honestly, my biggest takeaway from this is that Nintendo is shortchanging Sakurai's team. Can Nintendo really not be bothered to continue to give Smash a reasonable marketing budget, even if it is only for DLC?

Whatever the case may be, I hope they do consider a second pass. Maybe the huge positive reaction to Banjo will make them consider it. Idk.
It’s kind of sad that I’m more interested in a second pass than I am of who the other two dlc fighters are in the first one.

 

[Guynamednelson]

but he shouldn't try to do everything by himself.

Thankfully he isn't. Balance changes are all Namco's doing.

 

[BerBer456]

We need to hear this guys. It came from the Geno thread and I’d like any second opinions:

If the characters an Assist Trophy then they are dead. We have characters who get screwed over multiple times over, to a point where it more certain that they'll never happen. Remember, Sakurai said Assist Trophies are reserved for characters he believe have no real potential of being Fighters. The only one who got upgraded only had one game where they had an Assist Trophy role. Out of every single newcomers we ever got only three where chosen from Assist Trophies and two of them are basically clones. Sakurai action shows that he still keeps those views about Assist Trophies.

Think it's an insulting, well I'm not the one who's excluding them from the roster, that's Sakurai's doing. Sakurai is the one who keeps screwing over characters. I'm stating the obvious that people want to ignore.

Also yeah, Piranha Plant is a statement on other characters value. They go on about how Smash Bros Ultimate is filled with THE BEST OF THE BEST, a cast full of All-Stars. If Piranha Plant gets in while characters like Isaac, Geno, Shadow, Bomberman, and the rest that are screwed over by being Assist Trophies, Mii Costumes and Spirits then what does that says about them? It says they aren't the best of the best, Piranha Plant is better than them, all the others can get are participation ribbons. Like it or not, that's how they're view. There's a damn good reason support for many characters are just gone, they got the message. You can't really say that these characters are all-stars when they kept being put in the loser corner and Piranha Plant gets to be in the banner.

Might not be Sakurai intention to give a message like that, but that doesn't matter. Most things in this world start out with good intentions and wind up harmful.

Golden Sun no matter what ain't coming back. ARMS isn't going to get a sequel. Geno's only chance of ever showing up is Smash Bros. The only characters that have futures are the ones who's series are successful like Kirby and Mario, everyone else only had Smash Bros and nothing else.

 

[wynn728]

We need to hear this guys. It came from the Geno thread and I’d like any second opinions:

Aren't you freaking cute taking my quote and sharing it with another board to start crap with me.

 

[maf91186]

We need to hear this guys. It came from the Geno thread and I’d like any second opinions:

It came from /a person/ in the Geno thread.
Their views do not reflect the views of the thread as a whole.

Anyway, as you were lol

Edit: changed the way I emphasized. Don't know why I didn't do it this way to start. Didn't mean to come off as shouting.

 

[ZelDan]

Aren't you freaking cute taking my quote and sharing it with another board to start crap with me.

I...don't think he was trying to start crap?

 

[N3ON]

Aren't you freaking cute taking my quote and sharing it with another board to start crap with me.

If you stand by it there's no need to be so defensive.

But if you think it can't hold up to scrutiny from people of a potentially different mindset, I suppose it might warrant a second thought before you say it.

We need to hear this guys. It came from the Geno thread and I’d like any second opinions:

The argument this individual makes about ATs shifts as needed to service his enmity towards them. If you look at more than a single post about it, you'll notice it's an inconsistent rhetoric to rationalize a consistent bias. So I don't consider it arguing in good faith.

It's also not representative of the entire Geno thread.

 

[wynn728]

If you stand by it there's no need to be so defensive.

But if you think it can't hold up to scrutiny from people of a potentially different mindset, I suppose it might warrant a second thought before you say it.


The argument this individual makes about ATs shifts as needed to service his enmity towards them. If you look at more than a single post about it, you'll notice it's an inconsistent rhetoric to rationalize a consistent bias. So I don't consider it arguing in good faith.

It's also not representative of the entire Geno thread.

No, I stand by everything I say. Just a little silly to take a quote from one board and putting it in another board.

I stick to what I say and no matter how people dress it up Assist Trophies are just the worst. Every last one of them.

 

[maf91186]

I...don't think he was trying to start crap?

Neither do I. No worries