Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[ZelDan]

If Isaac were to have elemental Djinn be part of his moveset, I could see it working where pressing down B (where I assume such a thing would be assigned to) has all 4 elemental djinn float above Isaac in a circle, and then you cycle through them by pressing left/right. whichever one is in the forefront is the one that gets activated and which Djinn gets chosen affects how some specials and standard attacks function or what their properties. Maybe some would get completely changed outright.

 

[KoopaSaki]

Anybody still a little sad that Isaac did not quite make it to base game? I am going through a bit of depression right now and that still comes to my mind every now and then...

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Anybody still a little sad that Isaac did not quite make it to base game? I am going through a bit of depression right now and that still comes to my mind every now and then...

Yes I'm dissappointed. We can still make a mod that makes Issac playable.

I also think that having Isaac as an assist trophy is just as bad as having Nagisa as a support character instead of playable in a shonen jump game.

Do you understand my analogy?

 

[KoopaSaki]

Hey guys I’m out of my low mood now and thankfully I got something big to share with you guys. I found this from a YouTube video and I’d like to share it. It’s got some good points for speculation on assist trophies getting promoted.

Okay guys the idea of a 2nd fighters pass is really interesting at this point in time. I found this I’m from one of the YouTube videos I was watching:

I’m in the mind of possibly getting a 2nd fighters pass but things are starting to look less likely as time goes on given that interview where Sakurai mentioned as the fighter pass continues, the development team gets smaller and given that comment Sakurai made in the hero direct that they are running low on budget, yeah I’m not so sure about a 2nd pass anymore.

However, it is still possible, just not as likely but if it does happen the most low budget way WOULD. The best course of action would probably be to use the assist trophies due to the fact they have many assets to use like character models and animations fighters have (getting grabbed and air dodging for example) so it’s very possible to go for those especially given the fact Nintendo heard us about our outcry for waluigi and maybe even Isaac!

Now the only problem is let’s say this does happen. The characters who get picked will most likely be characters whose franchises are already represented through stages,music, and playable characters, that way they don’t have to pay extra for additional music or a stage. This unfortunately doesn’t help out the chances for Isaac or Bomberman or heck even Shovel Knight but others like Lyn, Waluigi, Shadow, Knuckles, Rodin, Zero, and Alucard would be much more likely. Of course some dlc characters in the past got in without a stage or music but in a dlc situation, they would probably want to go all in or just not have the character at all.

It would still be a good pass though and would probably be cheaper given the lack of spirits and stage so if it ever were to happen and I really hope it does, I believe this is how it would happen.

 

[Organization XIII]

He didn't say they were low on budget in the DQ presentation but that the video had no budget which was because it was an unscripted off the cuff showing. Also I can't be sure, as I would have to look at the quote, but the smaller dev team thing probably wasn't saying the DLC team is getting smaller as DLC continues but the dev team is smaller for DLC than the base game which standard in gaming.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Hey guys I’m out of my low mood now and thankfully I got something big to share with you guys. I found this from a YouTube video and I’d like to share it. It’s got some good points for speculation on assist trophies getting promoted.

Okay guys the idea of a 2nd fighters pass is really interesting at this point in time. I found this I’m from one of the YouTube videos I was watching:

I’m in the mind of possibly getting a 2nd fighters pass but things are starting to look less likely as time goes on given that interview where Sakurai mentioned as the fighter pass continues, the development team gets smaller and given that comment Sakurai made in the hero direct that they are running low on budget, yeah I’m not so sure about a 2nd pass anymore.

However, it is still possible, just not as likely but if it does happen the most low budget way WOULD. The best course of action would probably be to use the assist trophies due to the fact they have many assets to use like character models and animations fighters have (getting grabbed and air dodging for example) so it’s very possible to go for those especially given the fact Nintendo heard us about our outcry for waluigi and maybe even Isaac!

Now the only problem is let’s say this does happen. The characters who get picked will most likely be characters whose franchises are already represented through stages,music, and playable characters, that way they don’t have to pay extra for additional music or a stage. This unfortunately doesn’t help out the chances for Isaac or Bomberman or heck even Shovel Knight but others like Lyn, Waluigi, Shadow, Knuckles, Rodin, Zero, and Alucard would be much more likely. Of course some dlc characters in the past got in without a stage or music but in a dlc situation, they would probably want to go all in or just not have the character at all.

It would still be a good pass though and would probably be cheaper given the lack of spirits and stage so if it ever were to happen and I really hope it does, I believe this is how it would happen.

I honestly don't expect them to just use AT models if they were to upgrade one to fighter. Sakurai is too much of a perfectionist to use those low-poly models for a fighter, plus they would realistically need more animations for stuff.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Now the only problem is let’s say this does happen. The characters who get picked will most likely be characters whose franchises are already represented through stages,music, and playable characters, that way they don’t have to pay extra for additional music or a stage. This unfortunately doesn’t help out the chances for Isaac or Bomberman or heck even Shovel Knight but others like Lyn, Waluigi, Shadow, Knuckles, Rodin, Zero, and Alucard would be much more likely. Of course some dlc characters in the past got in without a stage or music but in a dlc situation, they would probably want to go all in or just not have the character at all.

Cost of licensing music and the stages might be a problem with new third party franchises but it really isn't a problem for Isaac since the franchise is owned by Nintendo themselves. Also like Organisation XIII said the budget thing was just a joke for the unscripted nature of the Hero presentation

 

[N3ON]

Cost of licensing music and the stages might be a problem with new third party franchises but it really isn't a problem for Isaac since the franchise is owned by Nintendo themselves. Also like Organisation XIII said the budget thing was just a joke for the unscripted nature of the Hero presentation

I don't think it was a joke, I just think they budgeted the entire pass at once, and after development costs, amiibo costs, and higher investment marketing (like the reveal trailer), there legitimately isn't as much left for showcase videos. That said, if we do get another pass, they'll get another chunk of capital with which to work, though I definitely could see it being less than the initial pass, as there is a gradually declining audience.

To that end, while it does make sense to include Nintendo characters, it really does seem like some of these third-parties are quite easy to work with (such as Capcom and Konami), so you never know. If you aim for mid-tier third parties from cooperative companies rather than the top of the top, they'd probably be cheaper to license.

Of course, if existing roles don't prove a death sentence for chances within Ultimate via future passes, I'd rather go with Nintendo characters. If they do, I'll stick with third-parties over what's still left on the first-party side.

 

[Organization XIII]

I mean he said in the video that normally they do it a traditional way but this time he wanted to do a more live stream approach. Then jokes there wasn't much of a budget for it. Which also makes the people there with him laugh. I think it's pretty easy to see that the comment was made purely in relation to not putting a lot of money into the video.
To be honest I think DQ just being such a big thing made Sakurai want to go hands-on with showing the Hero off. That makes far more sense than Sakurai somehow not having an adequate budget for videos which Nintendo love to use for marketing and getting fan attention.

 

[N3ON]

I mean he said in the video that normally they do it a traditional way but this time he wanted to do a more live stream approach. Then jokes there wasn't much of a budget for it. Which also makes the people there with him laugh. I think it's pretty easy to see that the comment was made purely in relation to not putting a lot of money into the video.
To be honest I think DQ just being such a big thing made Sakurai want to go hands-on with showing the Hero off. That makes far more sense than Sakurai somehow not having an adequate budget for videos which Nintendo love to use for marketing and getting fan attention.

Maybe. Maybe they were laughing at his bluntness. For Smash 4 DLC they didn't even give them the budget to make real CGI trailers.

 

[clearandsweet]

We're coming up on a year now since the Golden Sun trademark was registered in late August 2018, the Rathalos tweet, and the hype that caused right before the September 2018 Direct where Isabelle was revealed. Likely there will be another one in about a month in the second week of September. Both the past 2 years there has been.

Looking back at that tweet, I still can't see it as anything but the Camelot angle... That and the lack of any GS music from Sakuraba are the two things that I still can't get over a year later. The Grinch leak I can deal, the Growth item being a healing sprout, I get it. False hype buoyed by expectations. But I keep coming back to those two. Those hurt.

Well anyway, I think that Geno being the FotM hype train is probably good. If he's in, that's a big win for the fans. And we're right there on the fan requests next to Geno.

I wonder how much more we'll have to wait for this series to be revived. Surely the Issac speculation from back then reached Sakurai, surely Camelot and Nintendo are aware that there is demand for a GS4/remake. My wishful thinking is that as Mario Tennis Aces was finishing up, speculation for Ultimate was revving up with Issac's name being thrown around, sales of Octopath/other JRPGs on the Switch had been incredibly positive, the higher-ups okayed Camelot to do a mid-level, 2-year dev cycle Golden Sun game, on the same scale as Octopath for summer 2020. A slot was reserved in the Smash DLC for an Adept from that game, a la Corrin, but knowing the game wouldn't be out until mid 2020, it was the last DLC slot. Then this fall or winter, the new GS game would be announced alongside the Smash fighter reveal.

Then Sakurai saves the Golden Sun music and assigns Sakuraba other tracks, then he makes a tweet with a Golden Sun reference to assuage the rabid fans who would be upset at no content for Golden Sun in the base game, knowing the next year is going to be hard on them.

So anyway, that's my Smash Bros fanfic. Thanks for reading and let me say I'm very much looking forward to Edelgard and Wooloo being the final two DLC fighters in the Fighter Pass.

 

[Organization XIII]

Maybe. Maybe they were laughing at his bluntness. For Smash 4 DLC they didn't even give them the budget to make real CGI trailers.

True as far as we know and yet they still had plenty of budget for non CGI trailers and showcases of the movesets full of editing and scripting despite more characters and the higher development cost for developing for 2 platforms simultaneously.

 

[Hydewell]

The only thing that bothers me about the possibility of a new (or remake) Golden Sun entry it's the fact that, if Camelot is doing it, they would need to contract more people. But, they never upload their job offers in their website (they have the eternal programmer job), unlike other companys like AlphaDream.
We definitely know they contract some people, in fact between Mario SuperStars and Mario Tennis Aces, they hired 20 people. But, the question is where they post those offers. If we knew it, we could know their next project based on what they are seeking and the description of the jobs. I tried searching in this website (it seems it's one of the biggest ones) with the help of a translator, but I didn't get any results (I tried using Camelot name in japanese, in latin script and also I tried searching with the localization of their office). Also, japanese Nintendo website don't list them, so I doubt Nintendo themselves help to them to find that workers.

 

[Keepitup]

Hi everyone! After a really long time watching this forum, and this post in particularly, I´ve decided to create an account and come out of the shadows for a reason, that is this post is going dormant, while I see other characters like Geno getting hype and a ****load of posts.

Well, just wanted to tell you all that there is still a lot of people like me out there, watching and hoping, even if we don´t post like you guys, to remind you that if we keep talking about it, it will eventually happen, who cares if it´s not in this DLC wave, or in this game, you have to keep pushing for it and for Golden Sun 4.

Also, as somebody already stated before, prolonged anticipation for a character builds up demand for said character. So only keeping this post in the front page, as well as GameFaqs and reddit is already a huge win. So don´t give up, and keep talking, even if it is about the weather, so to speak.

 

[NessAtc.]

Hi everyone! After a really long time watching this forum, and this post in particularly, I´ve decided to create an account and come out of the shadows for a reason, that is this post is going dormant, while I see other characters like Geno getting hype and a ****load of posts.

Well, just wanted to tell you all that there is still a lot of people like me out there, watching and hoping, even if we don´t post like you guys, to remind you that if we keep talking about it, it will eventually happen, who cares if it´s not in this DLC wave, or in this game, you have to keep pushing for it and for Golden Sun 4.

Also, as somebody already stated before, prolonged anticipation for a character builds up demand for said character. So only keeping this post in the front page, as well as GameFaqs and reddit is already a huge win. So don´t give up, and keep talking, even if it is about the weather, so to speak.

you can only keep talking about nothing for so long, which is why Golden Sunday 3 is happening in the next few months

 

[Keepitup]

Well, tell that to the geno fanbase! They´ve been posting on a 20 minute basis regularly for months, and they got as much **** as we do, is that kind of defeatism of what I´m talking about.
Golden sunday is the main engine to carry this, but some buildup is necessary for people to get invested when it comes, is it not?

 

[NessAtc.]

Well, tell that to the geno fanbase! They´ve been posting on a 20 minute basis regularly for months, and they got as much **** as we do, is that kind of defeatism of what I´m talking about.
Golden sunday is the main engine to carry this, but some buildup is necessary for people to get invested when it comes, is it not?

The reason the Geno fanbase can keep talking about nothing is because they're the closest to being the ones in the spotlight as far as they think. As soon as the same happens for Isaac, it will boom in the same way. Right now he is not though, so it's all about timing

 

[N3ON]

Geno has only been "soft deconfirmed", and most of that fanbase still believes in his chances for inclusion. Same with Shantae. Characters that have been "hard deconfirmed", like Isaac, Waluigi, Ashley, etc. would have much more active threads were they only Spirits as well.

Of course I personally don't believe it will make a difference in the long run, but that remains to be seen.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Geno has only been "soft deconfirmed", and most of that fanbase still believes in his chances for inclusion. Same with Shantae. Characters that have been "hard deconfirmed", like Isaac, Waluigi, Ashley, etc. would have much more active threads were they only Spirits as well.

Of course I personally don't believe it will make a difference in the long run, but that remains to be seen.

But there are people who believe we won't get DLC from already existing franchises, or multiple Square-Enix DLC fighters. Shouldn't that consider Geno to be just as screwed as Isaac?

 

[N3ON]

But there are people who believe we won't get DLC from already existing franchises, or multiple Square-Enix DLC fighters. Shouldn't that consider Geno to be just as screwed as Isaac?

There isn't much overlap with those people and the current Geno supporters.

 

[FlawedAI]

Isaac's support peaked twice: once after the Rathalos tweet (seriously, how on earth was that not a Golden Sun reference?) and again after the Grinch leak, which used the Rathalos tweet to propel Isaac into the status of "super likely", only to get crushed by Kencineroar. His support peaked because he was relevant, once he becomes relevant again, whether it be from a new game, new leak, or just a rumor (or even a copyright trademark [whoops, my bad], as demonstrated back in 2018), Isaac's popularity will probably become overwhelming. We just have to hope that our resolve will be enough to carry us through.

 

[NessAtc.]

Isaac's support peaked twice: once after the Rathalos tweet (seriously, how on earth was that not a Golden Sun reference?) and again after the Grinch leak, which used the Rathalos tweet to propel Isaac into the status of "super likely", only to get crushed by Kencineroar. His support peaked because he was relevant, once he becomes relevant again, whether it be from a new game, new leak, or just a rumor (or even a copyright, as demonstrated back in 2018), Isaac's popularity will probably become overwhelming. We just have to hope that our resolve will be enough to carry us through.

it was a trademark, copyright makes it seem less important than it actually is

 

[FlawedAI]

it was a trademark, copyright makes it seem less important than it actually is

Thanks, fixed.

 

[ZelDan]

Isaac's support peaked twice: once after the Rathalos tweet (seriously, how on earth was that not a Golden Sun reference?) and again after the Grinch leak, which used the Rathalos tweet to propel Isaac into the status of "super likely", only to get crushed by Kencineroar. His support peaked because he was relevant, once he becomes relevant again, whether it be from a new game, new leak, or just a rumor (or even a copyright trademark [whoops, my bad], as demonstrated back in 2018), Isaac's popularity will probably become overwhelming. We just have to hope that our resolve will be enough to carry us through.

For all we know, maybe the Golden Sun hints WERE intentional, but were pointing towards being an assist trophy (the pic was seen in the AT section afterall).

It might have just been a bunch of coincidences too and the hints weren't intentional at all. Wouldn't doubt this either.

 

[N3ON]

Isaac's support peaked twice: once after the Rathalos tweet (seriously, how on earth was that not a Golden Sun reference?) and again after the Grinch leak, which used the Rathalos tweet to propel Isaac into the status of "super likely", only to get crushed by Kencineroar. His support peaked because he was relevant, once he becomes relevant again, whether it be from a new game, new leak, or just a rumor (or even a copyright trademark [whoops, my bad], as demonstrated back in 2018), Isaac's popularity will probably become overwhelming. We just have to hope that our resolve will be enough to carry us through.

Isaac will return to popularity once the cycle resets. A lot of characters will. Right now almost all the characters that have been popular for a while are seen to be out of the running. Most of the remaining active characters are third-parties with newer or more minor demand. Then you have a handful of characters whom fans still cling to despite being soft deconfirmed by existing roles less major than ATs.

And as for the Rathalos pic, people really just read too much into it. Only a portion of the most ardent Isaac supporters were sure it meant something, others were generally more skeptical. There's a bit of a parallel right now to all the things Geno fans are linking to that character, despite seeming much more tenuous when you take a step back.

 

[FlawedAI]

For all we know, maybe the Golden Sun hints WERE intentional, but were pointing towards being an assist trophy (the pic was seen in the AT section afterall).

It might have just been a bunch of coincidences too and the hints weren't intentional at all. Wouldn't doubt this either.

It would hurt even more if they were intentional and pointed to snowglobe purgatory, lol. I'd like to hope it was just unintentional and we all read too much into everything that was suspicious.

Isaac will return to popularity once the cycle resets. A lot of characters will. Right now almost all the characters that have been popular for a while are seen to be out of the running. Most of the remaining active characters are third-parties with newer or more minor demand. Then you have a handful of characters whom fans still cling to despite being soft deconfirmed by existing roles less major than ATs.

And as for the Rathalos pic, people really just read too much into it. Only a portion of the most ardent Isaac supporters were sure it meant something, others were generally more skeptical. There's a bit of a parallel right now to all the things Geno fans are linking to that character, despite seeming much more tenuous when you take a step back.

Yeah, Isaac will probably be number 1 or 2 once the next game's hype cycle starts up. The Rathalos pic was probably unintentional, but dang was that trademark poorly timed. At least Nintendo knows that people will look into their trademarks to find potential Smash characters, lol.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Have you guys seen this video? It's an orchestral performance of some Golden Sun songs:

 

[Hydewell]

I guess we don't have any topic to speak about after 3 speculation cycles... Just to give some topic to speak (probably it has been asked so many times...), what would you like to have in a hypothetical Golden Sun remake? Would you like to be exactly the same game or would you like to have some changes in terms of story? And also, do you think Camelot could fit the two games in one game without cutting anything?

Have you guys seen this video? It's an orchestral performance of some Golden Sun songs:

It's seems it was the first song they played in their concert this July in Málaga (Spain). Props to them, they nailed it.

 

[FlawedAI]

I guess we don't have any topic to speak about after 3 speculation cycles... Just to give some topic to speak (probably it has been asked so many times...), what would you like to have in a hypothetical Golden Sun remake? Would you like to be exactly the same game or would you like to have some changes in terms of story? And also, do you think Camelot could fit the two games in one game without cutting anything?

I've always thought that a potential remake should combine both games, and I feel it could be done without losing anything, too. They could simply have you finish the first game then play through TLA, just like the originals. I just hope they don't change anything substantial, especially the gameplay.

 

[ZelDan]

If they ever do a remake, one thing I'd hope for on the story front is to expand upon Saturos and Menardi and handle their character better. The both of them do come across as a bit too evil and destructive considering they actually were supposed to be helping save the world or helping save Prox from freezing over.

 

[Undella2]

I've said it before, but I think that two golden sun games should be released if (but I'm hoping when) the series is revived.

Game one would be a combination of TBS and TLA, with improvements and maybe slight add-ons made to each part.

Game two would include a redone Dark Dawn and a "GS4", with the points-of-no-return in Dark Dawn either being lessened, removed, or circumvent-able by giving Matthew a way to go back through the no-return-points late in the game.

 

[tbuster766]

I've said it before, but I think that two golden sun games should be released if (but I'm hoping when) the series is revived.

Game one would be a combination of TBS and TLA, with improvements and maybe slight add-ons made to each part.

Game two would include a redone Dark Dawn and a "GS4", with the points-of-no-return in Dark Dawn either being lessened, removed, or circumvent-able by giving Matthew a way to go back through the no-return-points late in the game.

I agree. It can be in the same vein as Rune Factory, but instead the first three games are remade with up to date graphics. It'd be one of the better ways to renew interest in the series and build hype for a fourth game.

 

[BoreasTheSnowConeMachine]

I've always thought that a potential remake should combine both games, and I feel it could be done without losing anything, too. They could simply have you finish the first game then play through TLA, just like the originals. I just hope they don't change anything substantial, especially the gameplay.

I agree with that. It would make for a long game. Would be even cooler to see more interactions between S&M and Felix during GS1 events. Or switching between both parties throughout the entire game would be interesting. There's just so many ideas that Golden Sun has that you can go anywhere.

One thing I'd love to see is both characters actually talking in their respective games. Could make these post much longer but I'm rambling.

I will never give up hope for a new Golden Sun game.

 

[ZelDan]

I agree with that. It would make for a long game. Would be even cooler to see more interactions between S&M and Felix during GS1 events. Or switching between both parties throughout the entire game would be interesting. There's just so many ideas that Golden Sun has that you can go anywhere.

One thing I'd love to see is both characters actually talking in their respective games. Could make these post much longer but I'm rambling.

I will never give up hope for a new Golden Sun game.

I agree with how Isaac and Felix should both talk in both games. Thole silent protagonist angle didn't really add much to either game IIRC. The only time it potentially did is in GS: TLA when you could piss off kraden, and even that was just a short, brief moment. Not to mention I always found it awkward how you'd see Felix talk in the first game, then not talk in the second game.

 

[FlawedAI]

I agree with how Isaac and Felix should both talk in both games. Thole silent protagonist angle didn't really add much to either game IIRC. The only time it potentially did is in GS: TLA when you could piss off kraden, and even that was just a short, brief moment. Not to mention I always found it awkward how you'd see Felix talk in the first game, then not talk in the second game.

Yeah, I feel like the silent protag thing worked on older hardware, but it feels wrong in modern games. I'm currently playing through Dragon Quest 11 (fantastic game, if you're an RPG fan you owe it to yourself to play it), and the Hero is silent, and it feels wrong, especially since he "talks" in cutscenes, but he doesn't actually have a voice outside of grunts and yells. Isaac/Felix/Matthew should have actual dialogue, not just a nod or shake of the head.

 

[N3ON]

Here's a slightly different version of a hypothetical posed a while back in the Geno thread:
Knowing that if you chose one, the other would never happen, would you rather GS get a sequel (or prequel, or whatever new iteration) or have Isaac in Smash?

Quite a tough call. But tbh, after having dedicated so much time to Isaac support, I think I'd feel more fulfilled seeing the payoff of his inclusion over another GS. I'd love a new GS, but I haven't spent over a dozen years pushing for it, lol.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well, if I could only ever get one, I'd choose a new GS. That's a whole game that would be made and that could become a classic and give us all resolution to a storyline that we fell in love with, so I guess you could say I find more intrinsic value in that.

 

[Organization XIII]

I'd choose Smash. Golden Sun would be immortalized forever if Isaac was in, whereas another game doesn't mean we'd finally get a satisfying resolution to the series with a 4th game. Plus there would be one miracle game where Isaac and Banjo were together and that's priceless.

 

[FlawedAI]

I'd definitely choose Isaac in Smash, simply because of the immortalization of being in. Isaac (and by extension, Golden Sun) will forever live on as a Smash character, and as we've seen (Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, Pit, Fire Emblem, etc.) Smash leads to opportunities for the series it showcases. Of course, if a new GS was the only option, I wouldn't turn it down, but I personally believe Isaac in Smash would lead to a continuation of the series.

 

[Xenigma]

I'd choose Smash, for a couple of reasons. One, as mentioned, is the idea of immortalization, both in terms of the widespread recognition of the character/series by the greater Nintendo fandom as well as the implicit acknowledgement by Nintendo that Golden Sun is an important part of Nintendo history. The second reason is simple: we don't know if a GS4 would even be good. I've had a similar thought with F-Zero: sure, I'd absolutely love a new game, but given just how good GX was, what are the odds a new game could live up to the nostalgia-fueled hype? Similarly, as much as I'd like a proper conclusion to the story started with Dark Dawn, I can't deny that DD itself was not as good as the original games, and after so much time it's possible GS4 could be even lower quality than that. Adding Isaac to Smash feels like very low risk for a high reward, so I'll happily take that.