Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[StrawHatX]

Honestly, I'd get rid of all the clones, characters represented more than once (Links, Marios, Samuses), and most of the third parties. Otherwise, I'd try to preserve any character with a unique moveset that doesn't fall into that, even the weird ones.

So:

Dark Samus
Daisy
Sheik (but replaced with Impa)
Dr. Mario
Pichu
Falco or Wolf (but not both)
Lucina
Young Link
Toon Link
Roy
Chrom
Dark Pit
Zero Suit Samus
Ness or Lucas (probably Lucas, but not both)
Two of the Miis classes (rework Mii fighters to be a more customizable single Mii class)
Ryu
Ken
Cloud
Snake
Richter
Bayonetta
Isabelle or Villager (but not both)

I’d keep Bayonetta, Ness, Wolf, and Villager.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I want you all to do something.

Keep talking about Golden sun.

Keep rearing your heads around Nintendo's corner.

Being as persistent as the Ridley or Metroid fan is basically the only way to get noticed by them.

So be loud. Be persistent. Make sure your voices are heard by higher ups.

And to those that say that we're being annoying? Show them the metroid franchise as an example of how persistent and obnoxiously loud fan demand is rewarded by Nintendo anyway.

Now im not asking you to insult Nintendo divisions, but break free of your quietness.

Have Nintendo know of your displeasure and disappointment when it comes to their treatment of this franchise.


That is all. Goodnight.

Edit: don't spam Nintendo on every tweet. But be consistent with your displeasure.

 

[Arsenal234]

So has everyone seen the info regarding PolarPanda and Isaac or am I late? Isaac was never considered apparently.

 

[StrawHatX]

So has everyone seen the info regarding PolarPanda and Isaac or am I late? Isaac was never considered apparently.

Yes, it’s been mentioned a few times. People here believe him so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, but ultimately it just comes down to us having to consistently support Golden Sun and make our voices heard to Nintendo and Sakurai and hope that maybe if we get more DLC Isaac will be considered. And our main goal is of course a new Golden Sun game.

 

[Sabertooth]

It doesn't really make sense to me that they'd still see Isaac as an unpopular niche character if the Smash Ballot explicitly told them otherwise. If there's only a "small group of Isaac fans", then why are they even having to discuss him? Also, it's probably the phrasing, but just the way PolarPanda implies Golden Sun and GBA isn't "a part of Nintendo history" really bugs me as someone who grew up around that era. Just a big frustrating mess, and even though I'm not a GS fan it's an irritating mindset.

 

[Ninjaed]

So has everyone seen the info regarding PolarPanda and Isaac or am I late? Isaac was never considered apparently.

Yes and hopefully that will have more people talking about Golden Sun. Speaking of which, has it been decided when the Golden Sundays (and possibly other events) would be?

 

[Organization XIII]

The thing I find odd about PolarPanda's source saying that Isaac was just chosen to be an AT with no consideration to his popularity is that other popular characters were also put as ATs. Were characters like Krystal and Shovel Knight also just chosen to be ATs just because they could be and not popularity? Because if they were chosen based on popularity then obviously that's also why Isaac's AT returned seeing as he beats them out.
To be honest if he's saying NoA was surprised at Isaac I'd believe his source's contact was the one who was surprised at Isaac's popularity and just guessing what happened.

 

[Icana]

I honestly would really like to see Camelot make Isaac a playable character in Mario Tennis Aces. I mean, why not, Mario Kart 8 has guests. Also Mario Tennis and Golf have historically had non-Mario human characters in its cast before. They can adjust Isaac's design to fit with the colorful Mario cast. They can also add Garet and/or Jenna as well for his doubles partner. It was through doubles consideration that Camelot brought back Daisy, and invented Waluigi for Mario Tennis 64.

I think Isaac's addition would continue to help get his visibility and interesting abilities/traits out there to the public, and just generally renew interest in the character and further help push up his chances as a fighter in Smash one day.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I honestly would really like to see Camelot make Isaac a playable character in Mario Tennis Aces. I mean, why not, Mario Kart 8 has guests. Also Mario Tennis and Golf have historically had non-Mario human characters in its cast before. They can adjust Isaac's design to fit with the colorful Mario cast. They can also add Garet and/or Jenna as well for his doubles partner. It was through doubles consideration that Camelot brought back Daisy, and invented Waluigi for Mario Tennis 64.

I think Isaac's addition would continue to help get his visibility and interesting abilities/traits out there to the public, and just generally renew interest in the character and further help push up his chances as a fighter in Smash one day.

Problem is, besides Camelot developping an allergy to using non-regular Mario characters created by them (which is too bad, given that Plum has been shelved forever because of this. It's a wonder she managed to get a trophy way back in Melee), they wouldn't be able to do something this daring unless it's to tie into a forthcoming GS game. Well, that and the matter of pre-DLC bottom of the barrel character picks that have been plaguing the Kart/Golf/Party spin-offs for some time now (seriously, it's almost like some old man executives that only know of recent Mario games are the ones given the responsibility of determining new roster additions, and going "hmm...how about X enemy?").

 

[Nauzgo]

I honestly would really like to see Camelot make Isaac a playable character in Mario Tennis Aces. I mean, why not, Mario Kart 8 has guests. Also Mario Tennis and Golf have historically had non-Mario human characters in its cast before. They can adjust Isaac's design to fit with the colorful Mario cast. They can also add Garet and/or Jenna as well for his doubles partner. It was through doubles consideration that Camelot brought back Daisy, and invented Waluigi for Mario Tennis 64.

I think Isaac's addition would continue to help get his visibility and interesting abilities/traits out there to the public, and just generally renew interest in the character and further help push up his chances as a fighter in Smash one day.

Imagine a possible February Direct where we firstly get a new Mario Tennis Aces DLC trailer with Isaac in it and everybody would go nuts and at the end of the direct we'd get our first Smash DLC trailer and it's Isaac. That must be what they call heaven.

Problem is, besides Camelot developping an allergy to using non-regular Mario characters created by them (which is too bad, given that Plum has been shelved forever because of this. It's a wonder she managed to get a trophy way back in Melee), they wouldn't be able to do something this daring unless it's to tie into a forthcoming GS game. Well, that and the matter of pre-DLC bottom of the barrel character picks that have been plaguing the Kart/Golf/Party spin-offs for some time now (seriously, it's almost like some old man executives that only know of recent Mario games are the ones given the responsibility of determining new roster additions, and going "hmm...how about X enemy?").

That's sad but true. Characters don't get revived in spin-offs, but included in those when they got back into the spotlight in mainline games. That's what happened to Pauline, Boom Boom and the Koopalings. Hopefully characters like DK Jr, Stanley, Tatanga, and Wart get the same treatment sometime.

 

[The DanMan051]

(seriously, it's almost like some old man executives that only know of recent Mario games are the ones given the responsibility of determining new roster additions, and going "hmm...how about X enemy?").

https://www.gameinformer.com/interv...lant-spirits-and-20-years-of-super-smash-bros
Sakurai explicitly talked about joke characters being part of his philosophy here, while also saying:
"Also, unlike some main characters from some (not widely known) franchises, Piranha Plant is a character everyone knows well. "

Nevermind that the amount of data leftover suggest Piranha Plant was planned for the base roster only to get cut at the last minute.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

https://www.gameinformer.com/interv...lant-spirits-and-20-years-of-super-smash-bros
Sakurai explicitly talked about joke characters being part of his philosophy here, while also saying:
"Also, unlike some main characters from some (not widely known) franchises, Piranha Plant is a character everyone knows well. "

Nevermind that the amount of data leftover suggest Piranha Plant was planned for the base roster only to get cut at the last minute.

I wasn't referring to Sakurai and Smash, but the character selections for Mario spin-offs. Sorry, I suppose I should have clarified.

 

[SonicLink125]

Nevermind that the amount of data leftover suggest Piranha Plant was planned for the base roster only to get cut at the last minute.

Wait a minute! What?!? Where was this found? Or is this reference to the 30 Placeholder Slots?

 

[SPEN18]

Wait a minute! What?!? Where was this found? Or is this reference to the 30 Placeholder Slots?

Spoiler: Datamine

They found a missing slot open where a character would go. Based on the placement it was speculated to be a first-party character that got cut. Of course, it could just be a placeholder or could have been for Piranha Plant as was suggested above. So not sure if it means anything (probably doesn't) but just throwing it out there.

 

[The DanMan051]

Wait a minute! What?!? Where was this found? Or is this reference to the 30 Placeholder Slots?

He outright has data for weight (94, same as Ness, Lucas, and inkling), run speed (slowest in the game behind even Incineroar, actually-- people were tricked by how fast his stubby little legs were moving), aerial momentum, etc. .

See here: http://kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/Attributes

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

I want you all to do something.

Keep talking about Golden sun.

Keep rearing your heads around Nintendo's corner.

Being as persistent as the Ridley or Metroid fan is basically the only way to get noticed by them.

So be loud. Be persistent. Make sure your voices are heard by higher ups.

And to those that say that we're being annoying? Show them the metroid franchise as an example of how persistent and obnoxiously loud fan demand is rewarded by Nintendo anyway.

Now im not asking you to insult Nintendo divisions, but break free of your quietness.

Have Nintendo know of your displeasure and disappointment when it comes to their treatment of this franchise.


That is all. Goodnight.

Edit: don't spam Nintendo on every tweet. But be consistent with your displeasure.

And there you are, coming out of ****ing nowhere. Lol.

Some of us have been trying our damndest. And we’ve been sticking to it, for the most part.

 

[SonicLink125]

And there you are, coming out of ****ing nowhere. Lol.

Some of us have been trying our damndest. And we’ve been sticking to it, for the most part.

Speaking of that, we need more crossover stuff with Golden Sun.

Here’s a fun one: Since KH3 is on the horizon, have Isaac and Sora drawn together. Or have some of the GS characters cosplaying as the KH characters and vice versa. Or a Djinn Keyblade. Anything can work!

 

[FlawedAI]

Honestly speaking, I think the guy that's been in charge of Kirby for the past decade or so, Shinya Kumazaki, would make for a nice fit. He's already done many of the things Sakurai did with the Kirby games (and there's a lot of that influence in Smash Bros), and he's already had a taste of Smash with Kirby Fighters Deluxe (basically Smash just with Kirby).

I'm not sure, Sakurai hasn't exactly shown modern Kirby the same love he has classic Kirby. Just at the stages in Smash: how many are from modern Kirby games? It's pretty obvious Sakurai prefers his Kirby, and i'm not sure if Sakurai would be able to trust him with his other series, especially if he doesn't like modern Kirby. Not to mention, Kirby games aren't exactly the intense grind Smash is. My personal guess? Some unknown Sakurai pulls out of nowhere. He's probably raising a few apprentices to take over eventually, and he'll pick from them.

 

[tbuster766]

Speaking of that, we need more crossover stuff with Golden Sun.

Here’s a fun one: Since KH3 is on the horizon, have Isaac and Sora drawn together. Or have some of the GS characters cosplaying as the KH characters and vice versa. Or a Djinn Keyblade. Anything can work!

I was thinking about drawing Felix crossing blades with Isaac on the next Golden Sunday, but I'm all for the idea of Isaac fighting Sora next after reading this. Lol

 

[SPEN18]

If I had any drawing talent I'd draw Isaac facing off with Ness and Marth. Three of my favorite video game characters and series ever, and they're also JRPG bros.!

 

[Bladebreaker]

About the only thing I could do is make food. None of the food in Golden Sun is very iconic.

 

[SonicLink125]

About the only thing I could do is make food. None of the food in Golden Sun is very iconic.

Make Djinn cookies! Easy! :D

 

[TempestSurge]

It doesn't really make sense to me that they'd still see Isaac as an unpopular niche character if the Smash Ballot explicitly told them otherwise. If there's only a "small group of Isaac fans", then why are they even having to discuss him? Also, it's probably the phrasing, but just the way PolarPanda implies Golden Sun and GBA isn't "a part of Nintendo history" really bugs me as someone who grew up around that era. Just a big frustrating mess, and even though I'm not a GS fan it's an irritating mindset.

Yeah you'd think if Isaac is such an unpopular, niche, out there there choice for playability, the discussion would end right there but the source info covers more bases like Sakurai wanting to only focus on fighters from existing series and pointing out that Duck Hunt and ROB are on the roster cause they are a part of Nintendo's history. Like an actual discussion to explain why Isaac isn't playable, even though NoA apparently thinks Golden Sun is a small group of people anyways. But it also says that Isaac would have been an assist trophy regardless of his popularity, so no ballot life line. I figured if Isaac's non playability ever came up, they'd obviously bring up him not having a game in almost a decade, but dang they covered everything lol.

 

[tbuster766]

Yeah you'd think if Isaac is such an unpopular, niche, out there there choice for playability, the discussion would end right there but the source info covers more bases like Sakurai wanting to only focus on fighters from existing series and pointing out that Duck Hunt and ROB are on the roster cause they are a part of Nintendo's history. Like an actual discussion to explain why Isaac isn't playable, even though NoA apparently thinks Golden Sun is a small group of people anyways. But it also says that Isaac would have been an assist trophy regardless of his popularity, so no ballot life line. I figured if Isaac's non playability ever came up, they'd obviously bring up him not having a game in almost a decade, but dang they covered everything lol.

Funny enough when there was a recent game ,Dark Dawn, in the equation during the pre smash 4 days, Isaac didn't even get so much as his assist trophy to return. Sure you can argue Dark Dawn may have had something to do with it, but then games like Radiant Dawn and Path to Radiance never impeded Ike's chance from making it in as a playable character (granted ike was from a prexisting franchise, but the fe cast was extremely small with only two characters). As much as I am trying to keep an open mind to all this new info, I honestly feel like it's a toss up at this point. I really hope the trademark renewal at the very least does mean some Golden Sun game soon enough because at the moment it seems like smash isn't the way to go at all for Golden Sun to be revived (albeit we did get a lot more content than anticipated recently lol).

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Speaking of that, we need more crossover stuff with Golden Sun.

Here’s a fun one: Since KH3 is on the horizon, have Isaac and Sora drawn together. Or have some of the GS characters cosplaying as the KH characters and vice versa. Or a Djinn Keyblade. Anything can work!

Man, I wish I could draw...

I can see it now.

Isaac/Sora
Felix/Riku
Jenna/Kairi
Kraden/Ansem the Wise
Alex/Xemnas
Wise One/Xehanort, but since he’s literally just a floating rock, he’d be a floating rock with a beard.

 

[SonicLink125]

Funny enough when there was a recent game ,Dark Dawn, in the equation during the pre smash 4 days, Isaac didn't even get so much as his assist trophy to return. Sure you can argue Dark Dawn may have had something to do with it, but then games like Radiant Dawn and Path to Radiance never impeded Ike's chance from making it in as a playable character (granted ike was from a prexisting franchise, but the fe cast was extremely small with only two characters). As much as I am trying to keep an open mind to all this new info, I honestly feel like it's a toss up at this point. I really hope the trademark renewal at the very least does mean some Golden Sun game soon enough because at the moment it seems like smash isn't the way to go at all for Golden Sun to be revived (albeit we did get a lot more content than anticipated recently lol).

Not to mention that Dark Dawn and Xenoblade came out on the same year. Guess who got full priority on that?

I swear, I have a weird relationship with Xenoblade. It’s a great series and the characters are fun, yet it feels like it overshadows Golden Sun, preventing it from ever coming back. *sigh*

Man, I wish I could draw...

I can see it now.

Isaac/Sora
Felix/Riku
Jenna/Kairi
Kraden/Ansem the Wise
Alex/Xemnas
Wise One/Xehanort, but since he’s literally just a floating rock, he’d be a floating rock with a beard.

Are you me? That’s exactly how I imagined the comparisons.

 

[Ninjaed]

I'm not sure, Sakurai hasn't exactly shown modern Kirby the same love he has classic Kirby. Just at the stages in Smash: how many are from modern Kirby games? It's pretty obvious Sakurai prefers his Kirby, and i'm not sure if Sakurai would be able to trust him with his other series, especially if he doesn't like modern Kirby. Not to mention, Kirby games aren't exactly the intense grind Smash is. My personal guess? Some unknown Sakurai pulls out of nowhere. He's probably raising a few apprentices to take over eventually, and he'll pick from them.

I think you're right. Sakurai must have had some sort of "trauma" after leaving his Kirby baby to others, then see it turn in a direction he cannot get behind. Must be weighing a lot down on his reasons for staying in the Smash team and being so heavy-handed at times. It's easy to empathise with him... And like you said, he may very well take some "unknown" as his apprentice to impart upon the young padawan HIS wishes and HIS way of doing things. That way, even after he leaves, he can be certain it won't be butchered.

 

[StrawHatX]

Do you guys think a playable Isaac would use mainly psynergy or do our think it’ll be mixed with Djinn?

Judgement HAS to be the Final Smash.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think you're right. Sakurai must have had some sort of "trauma" after leaving his Kirby baby to others, then see it turn in a direction he cannot get behind. Must be weighing a lot down on his reasons for staying in the Smash team and being so heavy-handed at times. It's easy to empathise with him... And like you said, he may very well take some "unknown" as his apprentice to impart upon the young padawan HIS wishes and HIS way of doing things. That way, even after he leaves, he can be certain it won't be butchered.

I will admit though, I really just want a handful of new Kirby characters in Smash (Rick, Ady, BWD), any others would be neat, but honestly excessive and, in some cases, frankly unnecessary. It's best to avoid full-on bias and still determine who has enough merit to get in. And then the successor will still ignore Waluigi...

Ironically though, the anime, which he supervised, ended up damaging the series' image for some time with some DS entries not-too-subtly inserting elements from it in them, which was a bit jarring.

 

[Sabertooth]

Never forget

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

I personally would want him to use melee with Psynergy as a supplement.

Like maybe down smash could be variations of Growth/Nettle, increasing in size depending how long it's charged.
Then Forward smash could be Isaac stabbing the ground in front of him, with the Ragnarok sword materializing as he charges, then coming down when the attack is charged for like 75% or more, increasing his range.

What I wouldn't like would be super projectile-heavy or zoning playstyle. But who knows, having Isaac play like that might get me to like that style.

I was thinking of having Djinn be more simplified for Smash; like we could have the 4 elemental Djinn fly around Isaac (kinda like the ghosts of Pikmin when they die, maybe more transparent so as to not be very noticeable or distracting).
Isaac's attacks deal really good damage while he has Djinn active and taking damage (like say 30%) put a random Djinn on standby. Each Djinn could have it's own individual health.

So basically as Isaac takes damage, he loses Djinn, and his elemental attacks lose range, or they could just lower his Smash stats.
Make Djinn come back after like 7 seconds of not taking damage. Keep Isaac on the ropes to keep him at his weakest

I feel if they made Djinn an active part of his moveset, he'd be like Shulk. Like activating Jupiter would grant you increased jump and stronger damage on moves that use wind attributes.

 

[KoopaSaki]

I really would love Isaac to be really similar to his moveset seen in super smash flash 2. That is the moveset I always envisioned him having even back in the brawl days.

 

[TempestSurge]

Funny enough when there was a recent game ,Dark Dawn, in the equation during the pre smash 4 days, Isaac didn't even get so much as his assist trophy to return. Sure you can argue Dark Dawn may have had something to do with it, but then games like Radiant Dawn and Path to Radiance never impeded Ike's chance from making it in as a playable character (granted ike was from a prexisting franchise, but the fe cast was extremely small with only two characters). As much as I am trying to keep an open mind to all this new info, I honestly feel like it's a toss up at this point. I really hope the trademark renewal at the very least does mean some Golden Sun game soon enough because at the moment it seems like smash isn't the way to go at all for Golden Sun to be revived (albeit we did get a lot more content than anticipated recently lol).

I think Sakurai has his ideas of what characters he'd like to have on the roster. Like in Ike's case, he had a template reserved for 'slow and heavy' swordsman but he didn't know who specifically, just that they'd be the new FE addition. Then he goes to IS for suggestions and Ike's name pops up, though recency probs helped a lot there, with his two games being the recent titles at the time. We see that Sakurai still does this with how he left a slot open for Pokemon's newest release and then picks Incineroar stating he always wanted to do a pro wrestler type of character.

He's also mentioned that character additions are down to the timing of releases and its popularity. And that he likes to add characters that bring something unique to the roster. I don't think he's ever stated that sales impacted who makes it to the roster or not, think that's something the community invented. I certainly remember the days when Ike was supposed to be getting cut in 4, cause his games sold terribly and nearly killed the series but Chrom's game saved the series and he's replacing Ike, deal with it lol. Either way, I thought Ultimate's roster would be different with it looking geared to be going in a fan driven direction but I guess at the end of the day, the only consistent rule with the roster is, Sakurai does what he wants.

 

[StrawHatX]

I will admit though, I really just want a handful of new Kirby characters in Smash (Rick, Ady, BWD), any others would be neat, but honestly excessive and, in some cases, frankly unnecessary. It's best to avoid full-on bias and still determine who has enough merit to get in. And then the successor will still ignore Waluigi...

Ironically though, the anime, which he supervised, ended up damaging the series' image for some time with some DS entries not-too-subtly inserting elements from it in them, which was a bit jarring.

Would you recommend Kirby Star Allies? I really want to get back into the Kirby series. I haven’t played any of them since Crystal Shards.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Would you recommend Kirby Star Allies? I really want to get back into the Kirby series. I haven’t played any of them since Crystal Shards.

Well, now that all of the updates are finished, I recommend that you get the Dream Friends Waves for it, otherwise the main game gets a bit too easy at times (especially if you have friends around). Otherwise, it's not a bad place to start with.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Do you guys think a playable Isaac would use mainly psynergy or do our think it’ll be mixed with Djinn?

Judgement HAS to be the Final Smash.

Man I feel like I’ve answered this question a bajillion times on this thread lol.

At this point I just want my boy. His move set could be comprised of a giant pink dildo and I wouldn’t care...

 

[StrawHatX]

Well, now that all of the updates are finished, I recommend that you get the Dream Friends Waves for it, otherwise the main game gets a bit too easy at times (especially if you have friends around). Otherwise, it's not a bad place to start with.

I’m guessing that’s paid DLC?

 

[Luigifan18]

I’m guessing that’s paid DLC?

Nope, they're plain 'ol updates to the game.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I’m guessing that’s paid DLC?

They come for the price of absolutely nothing!

 

[Rayleigh]

...Random comment of the day:

What if someone skinned Isaac over Bayonetta?

Those smash attacks as psynergy hands. It's dumb. I hate this idea. But I love it as well.