Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[FlawedAI]

Obviously Cloud and any possible Square DLC character for Ultimate are the first to go, unless Square decides to get its head out of its ***. The way they treat their characters is honorable and appalling at the same time. There's being overprotective, there's being Game Freak, and then there's Square. 2 music tracks is stupid enough, but not allowing any other Spirits or even letting Sakurai use art from the actual ****ing games is just ridiculous. After Square is probably Snake/Castlevania, since it's happened before. Who knows if Konami will keep its act together for the sake of Smash, but it's still possible they'll do what they did for Smash 4. I'd say the other third-parties are fairly safe, with Sonic, Bayo, and Mega Man probably being the safest.

After the third-parties comes Pichu and Young Link. Redundant characters that were only brought back to do the whole "Everyone is here!" thing. Other semi-clones are also on the chopping block. Wolf, Dr. Mario, Roy, Isabelle, even Lucas aren't safe at all. Of these, I'd say Roy is probably the most vulnerable, given his shared status with Lucina and Chrom as Marth-influenced. The others should be fine, but I'd keep an eye out for semis bring cut. Finally, characters that were the promotional pick/strange will probably be cut. Greninja, Incineroar, and Piranha Plant all come to mind immediately, but any DLC characters that add to existing franchises that are promo picks will also be added to the list. Outside of that, I don't see too many other cuts. Echoes are of course a possibility, but given how little time they take to develop, they should be safe (especially characters like Dark Pit or Lucina, who barely change).

So: Cloud, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, Incineroar, Greninja, Piranha Plant. That's 7 cuts. Add Konami and it becomes 9 (10 with Richter). The newcomers will probably outnumber the cuts, so maybe 10? Who knows, maybe Square decides to play ball once again and Cloud stays, or Sakurai is given like three or four years to develop the game, we could see everyone back again. I never hope for cuts, so I'd like that timeline to be the one that happens, but either way the next Smash game will be many years away. Honestly? I expect a roster even more trimmed than this, especially if Sakurai isn't the director. Some very, very hard decisions will be made, and we could see some loved characters get the axe. I just hope Nintendo will get the right person to prevent any uniques getting cut (characters like Pichu and Young Link aren't huge losses, let's be real) and add some much loved characters to make their mark (*cough, Isaac, cough*).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I just get the feeling that this really is Sakurai’s last Smash game. I know he says that all the time, but with him bringing back every single veteran and adding some long time wanted characters like Ridley and K. Rool I think he means it this time.

I think there’s a reason this game is “Ultimate”. He wanted to go out with a bang. I think they’re going to trim the roster down quite a bit whenever they do the next one. I hope you guys are right though.

On that subject, I recently noticed a pretty telling bit on the Game Informer interview…

The character reveal trailers have all been so creative, were you as involved in the storyboarding of these trailers as you were for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS?


I create all the plot, including that of “World of Light.” I make dense adjustment requests to the CG staff, and I also review things like the audio. I of course take a look at the gameplay portions as well.


Thinking in terms of game development, I should probably entrust this all to someone, but I haven’t really found that someone yet…

If this implies what I think it implies, he may be looking for a successor.

 

[FlawedAI]

On that subject, I recently noticed a pretty telling bit on the Game Informer interview…



If this implies what I think it implies, he may be looking for a successor.

The man's been quite vocal about the strain and stress any Smash game puts on him, I think he's looking for someone who can commit the same level of grind Sakurai puts in. He's probably been looking around for a successor for a while (probably since Brawl, tbh), but he clearly hasn't found anyone yet. We may yet get more Sakurai goodness if he can't find anyone (provided the stress doesn't kill him first).

 

[3DSNinja]

Why would Greninja get cut? Corrin is way more likely to be cut IMO

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The man's been quite vocal about the strain and stress any Smash game puts on him, I think he's looking for someone who can commit the same level of grind Sakurai puts in. He's probably been looking around for a successor for a while (probably since Brawl, tbh), but he clearly hasn't found anyone yet. We may yet get more Sakurai goodness if he can't find anyone (provided the stress doesn't kill him first).

Well, overworking to exhaustion is a national habit. At least he enjoys doing what he loves (for the most part).

Admittedly, it is a tall order to get the right person, especially if they have to be just as willing to grab characters from multiple third parties. I just hope that person will be picked sooner rather than later.

 

[Arcadenblog]

I need your help for something slightly important. See, let's say hypothetically that someone were to make a action crossover game staring obscure video game characters from various companies, and the playable roster would be very small. (Only about 9ish characters.) Because of this, representation would be limited to one character per company. If a Nintendo character were to get in, would Isaac be the best choice? Or would someone else better a better option?

 

[Bladebreaker]

Seems like Nintendo and associates have trouble passing the reins. I recall an interview during the build up towards Breath of the Wild where either Miyamoto or Aonuma (or both) were wanting the newer develops to take over and inject new ideas into the brand, but also not that much. It's probably a cultural thing.

 

[Silo777]

Meanwhile, we have three Links, and one of those didn't get much differentiation. Which is a shame, he could have had some MM stuff.

It really does suck that Young Link doesn’t have any Majora’s Mask stuff, especially with the remake coming out in 2015. That was the like the one veteran overhaul I was really hoping for. It could make him such a unique fighter and easily distinguish him from the other links.

 

[StrawHatX]

It really does suck that Young Link doesn’t have any Majora’s Mask stuff, especially with the remake coming out in 2015. That was the like the one veteran overhaul I was really hoping for. It could make him such a unique fighter and easily distinguish him from the other links.

At least give him Fierce Deity as a Final Smash.

 

[Silo777]

At least give him Fierce Deity as a Final Smash.

I can kinda see why he went for Triforce Slash with the other links, as there isn’t really a whole lot in terms of “finishing moves” from those games, but with Young Link the opportunity is pretty much right there. Heck, keep the animation the same if you want, just change the model to FD at least.

 

[NessAtc.]

I need your help for something slightly important. See, let's say hypothetically that someone were to make a action crossover game staring obscure video game characters from various companies, and the playable roster would be very small. (Only about 9ish characters.) Because of this, representation would be limited to one character per company. If a Nintendo character were to get in, would Isaac be the best choice? Or would someone else better a better option?

I mean yeah, he's one of the more unique obscure-ish ones

 

[Bladebreaker]

I can kinda see why he went for Triforce Slash with the other links, as there isn’t really a whole lot in terms of “finishing moves” from those games, but with Young Link the opportunity is pretty much right there. Heck, keep the animation the same if you want, just change the model to FD at least.

Great Spin Attack/Hurricane Spin for Toon Link. Something he had in... every game with that art style, I think?

 

[Silo777]

Great Spin Attack/Hurricane Spin for Toon Link. Something he had in... every game with that art style, I think?

Yeah you know what? Scratch what I said. They could do that or something with the Wind Waker item for Toon Link, and could’ve done something with Wolf Link for Twilight Princess Link.

Triforce Slash is lame and shouldn’t be a thing.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Young Link maybe, but Nintendo likes marketing Toon Link for younger audiences and Japan's preference for cuteness.

Definitely, but in a hypothetical downsizing both would likely be first to go. Otherwise there will be backlash (imagine how people would react if, say, Little Mac is cut and Toon Link stays, for example)

Obviously Cloud and any possible Square DLC character for Ultimate are the first to go, unless Square decides to get its head out of its ***. The way they treat their characters is honorable and appalling at the same time. There's being overprotective, there's being Game Freak, and then there's Square. 2 music tracks is stupid enough, but not allowing any other Spirits or even letting Sakurai use art from the actual ****ing games is just ridiculous. After Square is probably Snake/Castlevania, since it's happened before. Who knows if Konami will keep its act together for the sake of Smash, but it's still possible they'll do what they did for Smash 4. I'd say the other third-parties are fairly safe, with Sonic, Bayo, and Mega Man probably being the safest.

After the third-parties comes Pichu and Young Link. Redundant characters that were only brought back to do the whole "Everyone is here!" thing. Other semi-clones are also on the chopping block. Wolf, Dr. Mario, Roy, Isabelle, even Lucas aren't safe at all. Of these, I'd say Roy is probably the most vulnerable, given his shared status with Lucina and Chrom as Marth-influenced. The others should be fine, but I'd keep an eye out for semis bring cut. Finally, characters that were the promotional pick/strange will probably be cut. Greninja, Incineroar, and Piranha Plant all come to mind immediately, but any DLC characters that add to existing franchises that are promo picks will also be added to the list. Outside of that, I don't see too many other cuts. Echoes are of course a possibility, but given how little time they take to develop, they should be safe (especially characters like Dark Pit or Lucina, who barely change).

So: Cloud, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, Incineroar, Greninja, Piranha Plant. That's 7 cuts. Add Konami and it becomes 9 (10 with Richter). The newcomers will probably outnumber the cuts, so maybe 10? Who knows, maybe Square decides to play ball once again and Cloud stays, or Sakurai is given like three or four years to develop the game, we could see everyone back again. I never hope for cuts, so I'd like that timeline to be the one that happens, but either way the next Smash game will be many years away. Honestly? I expect a roster even more trimmed than this, especially if Sakurai isn't the director. Some very, very hard decisions will be made, and we could see some loved characters get the axe. I just hope Nintendo will get the right person to prevent any uniques getting cut (characters like Pichu and Young Link aren't huge losses, let's be real) and add some much loved characters to make their mark (*cough, Isaac, cough*).

I think Wolf, Roy, Lucas and Isabelle are safe because they’re popular. Maybe Isabelle gets cut only to return as inevitable DLC. But they’re semiclones and don’t take much dev time. Hell, with Ken being labeled an Echo, I think they could just relabel every semiclone an Echo. It’s really a diluted name.

Why would Greninja get cut? Corrin is way more likely to be cut IMO

I think both are on the chopping block. Greninja really didn’t catch on as much as expected. By no means disliked, but it didn’t hold on to its popularity as much as Lucario did.

 

[SonicLink125]

Obviously Cloud and any possible Square DLC character for Ultimate are the first to go, unless Square decides to get its head out of its ***. The way they treat their characters is honorable and appalling at the same time. There's being overprotective, there's being Game Freak, and then there's Square. 2 music tracks is stupid enough, but not allowing any other Spirits or even letting Sakurai use art from the actual ****ing games is just ridiculous. After Square is probably Snake/Castlevania, since it's happened before. Who knows if Konami will keep its act together for the sake of Smash, but it's still possible they'll do what they did for Smash 4. I'd say the other third-parties are fairly safe, with Sonic, Bayo, and Mega Man probably being the safest.

After the third-parties comes Pichu and Young Link. Redundant characters that were only brought back to do the whole "Everyone is here!" thing. Other semi-clones are also on the chopping block. Wolf, Dr. Mario, Roy, Isabelle, even Lucas aren't safe at all. Of these, I'd say Roy is probably the most vulnerable, given his shared status with Lucina and Chrom as Marth-influenced. The others should be fine, but I'd keep an eye out for semis bring cut. Finally, characters that were the promotional pick/strange will probably be cut. Greninja, Incineroar, and Piranha Plant all come to mind immediately, but any DLC characters that add to existing franchises that are promo picks will also be added to the list. Outside of that, I don't see too many other cuts. Echoes are of course a possibility, but given how little time they take to develop, they should be safe (especially characters like Dark Pit or Lucina, who barely change).

So: Cloud, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, Incineroar, Greninja, Piranha Plant. That's 7 cuts. Add Konami and it becomes 9 (10 with Richter). The newcomers will probably outnumber the cuts, so maybe 10? Who knows, maybe Square decides to play ball once again and Cloud stays, or Sakurai is given like three or four years to develop the game, we could see everyone back again. I never hope for cuts, so I'd like that timeline to be the one that happens, but either way the next Smash game will be many years away. Honestly? I expect a roster even more trimmed than this, especially if Sakurai isn't the director. Some very, very hard decisions will be made, and we could see some loved characters get the axe. I just hope Nintendo will get the right person to prevent any uniques getting cut (characters like Pichu and Young Link aren't huge losses, let's be real) and add some much loved characters to make their mark (*cough, Isaac, cough*).

Now, I wouldn’t call Wolf a Semi-Clone. He has a ton of moves that are his own compared to Fox. Falco is more the semi-clone than anything. I’m not a Star Fox fan, but Wolf surprisingly became my 3rd favorite main in Brawl at the time and now seeing him in action in Ultimate, he’s way different. But that’s my two cents there. lol


So, is everyone in agreement with Waluigi being the new Ridley and Isaac being the new King K. Rool? Now that the Reptile Bros. are gone, it’s time to make way for the new bros. in town, The Camelot Bros.!

 

[Nauzgo]

Greninja's not going anywhere. He's huge in Japan.

 

[StrawHatX]

If they end up rebooting the series do you guys think the Original 12 will be back?

 

[Pwnapplez]

If they end up rebooting the series do you guys think the Original 12 will be back?

Yes, plus with the OG cast being the spirits I feel like the remake is the way Nintendo should take GS.

Talk about the ancient civs, add some more lore about the whole light vs darkness, add a bunch more like optional bosses, new summons, rebalance stats, add a hard mode, add a 3v3 online mode, put Isaac in Smash as a fighter, sell some real GS merch, have 50 answer me back on twitter, get rid of the password system by putting both games in one

 

[MeatOfJustice]

First of all Echoes use different criteria for joining, for them being cut depends on spare development time and if the source fighter is still playable. For future cuts I think are very likely, as likely and as moderate, as possible, as unlikely and as for ...

If they end up rebooting the series do you guys think the Original 12 will be back?

Remember how was almost cut on Brawl? It could happen someday.

 

[FlawedAI]

Why would Greninja get cut? Corrin is way more likely to be cut IMO

You're absolutely right, I forgot about Corrin tbh. What's truly embarrassing about that is I'm a Corrin main. That's how ****ing forgettable Corrin is.

Now, I wouldn’t call Wolf a Semi-Clone. He has a ton of moves that are his own compared to Fox. Falco is more the semi-clone than anything. I’m not a Star Fox fan, but Wolf surprisingly became my 3rd favorite main in Brawl at the time and now seeing him in action in Ultimate, he’s way different. But that’s my two cents there. lol


So, is everyone in agreement with Waluigi being the new Ridley and Isaac being the new King K. Rool? Now that the Reptile Bros. are gone, it’s time to make way for the new bros. in town, The Camelot Bros.!

Wolf isn't a semi-clone in the same way Isabelle/Roy is, but he's a semi-clone. Falco is absolutely closer to Fox, but they're both semis.

And Waluigi/Isaac are for sure the new Ridley/K. Rool. Isaac is the most requested first-party left, except for Waluigi, probably. Waluigi becomes the purple meme pick and Isaac is the legit fan favorite that's been dormant for too long.

I think Wolf, Roy, Lucas and Isabelle are safe because they’re popular. Maybe Isabelle gets cut only to return as inevitable DLC. But they’re semiclones and don’t take much dev time. Hell, with Ken being labeled an Echo, I think they could just relabel every semiclone an Echo. It’s really a diluted name.

Yeah, I agree these characters are popular, but so was Wolf after Brawl. No one is safe if they don't bring anything unique to the table. That's why the semi-clones are the ones in danger here: they're not unique.

 

[SPEN18]

Honestly, I don't think PP took that much effort to conceive.

The only things that look interesting are the specials; everything else seems pretty basic (for a plant).
It's the same deal with sword characters. If you're wielding some sort of weapon, most of your moves are gonna center around it.

Simon escapes this because his series is centered around usable items.
And you can see Corrin somewhat escapes this due to the emphasis on his draconic heritage.

So I don't think it's fair to compare PP to someone like Waluigi. I imagine he would need a really wacky moveset to make him justice, unless the Waluigi fans really just want random dropkicks or elbows.

I mean, even if the Plant's moveset is straightforward it still has to be balanced with the rest of the cast. Is it less work than making someone like Waluigi? Probably. But it's not that much less work; in my eyes, certainly not enough of a gap to justify it.

I think most will agree Smash 6 will be downsized a ton from Ultimate. We might go back to like 30 characters and that means less Mario characters.

I don't think it will be anywhere close to as low as 30 characters. People would just view a low roster count as being lazy and a ton of people would be angry at the cuts, not just hardcores but casuals too. Of course, I don't think we'll get another "Everyone is Here," but the vast majority of characters I think will stay.

Although I don't mean to diminish the great amount of work and effort that goes into a game like Ultimate, there is a lot of extraneous content that they could hypothetically cut as an alternative to cutting characters. For example, people would be way less disappointed (in general) if we got, say, stages cut rather than characters. They could also make the next adventure mode much less expansive than Spirits, and instead of giving Spirits unique abilities and Spirit battles they could just make them collectibles and nothing more (like trophies but without the 3D models).

In any event, though, Smash is ludicrous enough that it will almost certainly be released on the next Nintendo console, and it also carries high enough expectations that they wouldn't be able to get by with a massive roster paring.

As for who would be on the chopping block, IMO:
I'd say the only one of the original 12 that could potentially go is Jigglypuff, although she's probably safe. It is highly likely that they'll cut some clones; yes, they're easier to make but most of them are not part of the "backbone" of the roster. They'll also likely want to make room for new clones. Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, and a handful of Echoes are likely to go. Toon Link, Roy, Lucas and Wolf could potentially get the axe but might also be popular enough to stay. In the case of Wolf in particular, if Star Fox is as done as it looks (which is sad btw) they might not want to give it three reps. A newcomer like Skull Kid could also be good compensation for Toon Link and/or Young Link being cut. A retro like Ice Climbers or R.O.B. could potentially be cut if need be, as they're no longer surprise characters and aren't promotional or massively popular; I think they could get away with dropping one (maybe two). These are less likely to be cut than clones and there would be some backlash, but I think they could get away with it, especially if they added a new retro like Takamaru or Mach Rider. As others have said, a few bigger franchises could be pared down a bit; Piranha Plant, maybe Rosalina or Bowser Jr. (though these two will likely stay), Pokémon Trainer, Greninja, Incineroar, Corrin, and the Fire Emblem Echoes (pun intended) are candidates. But probably most of any necessary roster paring will be with third parties. It's hard to say which ones will stay because it depends a lot on licensing, but I think Sonic, Pac-Man, and Mega Man are likeliest to stay as we stand right now. Cloud and any Square rep we get as DLC could go though, as could the Konami characters. Ryu/Ken could be cut as well, but they might come along with Mega Man. There might also be one or two surprising cuts we didn't expect. For example, say Kid Icarus doesn't get a new game on Switch and goes dormant; Pit would probably still stay but Palutena could be viewed as extraneous.

Of course, there is quite a bit of time before these things would be decided, so a lot could change between now and then. Like I said, I don't expect a massive roster paring so I certainly don't think anywhere close to all the characters I mentioned will be cut; I'm just laying out some candidates.

 

[SonicLink125]

You're absolutely right, I forgot about Corrin tbh. What's truly embarrassing about that is I'm a Corrin main. That's how ****ing forgettable Corrin is.

Wolf isn't a semi-clone in the same way Isabelle/Roy is, but he's a semi-clone. Falco is absolutely closer to Fox, but they're both semis.

And Waluigi/Isaac are for sure the new Ridley/K. Rool. Isaac is the most requested first-party left, except for Waluigi, probably. Waluigi becomes the purple meme pick and Isaac is the legit fan favorite that's been dormant for too long.

Yeah, I agree these characters are popular, but so was Wolf after Brawl. No one is safe if they don't bring anything unique to the table. That's why the semi-clones are the ones in danger here: they're not unique.

True that Wolf does have a few shared similarities with Fox like his Specials (Blaster, Dash, Up B, Energy Deflector, and FS), but that’s it. Every other move he does is so different from Fox that I personally have categorized him as a unique fighter. But whatever, I’m excited to play him again after all this time. lol

I wonder if we should have some kind of special campaign for these two Camelot Bros.?

Especially another where they lead the pack of the most wanted AT characters to be promoted. It definitely needs to happen while the idea is there.

 

[SPEN18]

True that Wolf does have a few shared similarities with Fox like his Specials (Blaster, Dash, Up B, Energy Deflector, and FS), but that’s it. Every other move he does is so different from Fox that I personally have categorized him as a unique fighter. But whatever, I’m excited to play him again after all this time. lol

Yeah I think if Wolf is cut it'll be mostly because Star Fox isn't doing as well as it once was. Maybe Starlink convinces them to give it another go but I'm not sure.

Also, you Roy fans should hope for a Binding Blade remake. That would be lit like Roy's sword.

 

[GoodGrief741]

If they end up rebooting the series do you guys think the Original 12 will be back?

Yeah, definitely. I’m expecting a lot of characters currently protected by grandfather clause to be cut, but the OG 12 are sacred.

 

[StrawHatX]

I would gladly take a 40ish man roster if we could get things like Melee’s Adventure Mode, Smash 64’s Classic Mode, and individual Board the Platforms and Break the Targets. And please bring back Trophies.

They would trim down some of the bigger series’ rosters. Rosalina, Dr. Mario, and Bowser Jr. probably cut from the Mario roster. I’d prefer Falco cut over Wolf, but that’s just me. Young Link would probably be gone. A few Pokémon. Corrin and maybe one or two of the Awakening characters.

For some of the newcomers I’d like to see Isaac for sure. Maybe Mach Rider as a retro rep. Dixie would be cool. I’d like to think at least half the roster could be newcomers, but at least 15 or so.

 

[FlawedAI]

True that Wolf does have a few shared similarities with Fox like his Specials (Blaster, Dash, Up B, Energy Deflector, and FS), but that’s it. Every other move he does is so different from Fox that I personally have categorized him as a unique fighter. But whatever, I’m excited to play him again after all this time. lol

I wonder if we should have some kind of special campaign for these two Camelot Bros.?

Especially another where they lead the pack of the most wanted AT characters to be promoted. It definitely needs to happen while the idea is there.

I was just thinking about this, and I think Camelot is the only second-party with original characters to not have any playable character in Smash.
Let's go through it:
1-UP Studio (formerly Brownie Brown): developed Mother 3, have Lucas.
Monolith Soft: developed Xenoblade, have Shulk.
NDCube: developed Mario Party, no original characters.
Retro Studios: developed Metroid Prime, have Dark Samus.
iQue: doesn't develop games.
Creatures Inc: developed Pokemon, along with Game Freak, have 10 characters.
AlphaDream: developed Mario & Luigi, no original characters (with a chance, they released a GBA Japan-exclusive game called Tomato Adventure in 2002).
Camelot: developed Golden Sun, along with Mario Tennis/Golf, no original characters in Smash.
Game Freak: Pokemon, 10 characters.
Good-Feel: developed Kirby's Epic Yarn and Yoshi's Woolly World, but Prince Fluff could count for them.
Grezzo: developed the Zelda 3DS remakes and Ever Oasis, no original characters in Smash.
HAL Laboratory: developed Kirby, 3 characters.
Intelligent Systems: developed Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, and Paper Mario, 7 characters.
Noise: developed Custom Robo, no original characters in Smash. (Side note: these guys haven't released a Nintendo-published game since 2006.)
skip Ltd.: developed Chibi-Robo and Captain Rainbow. No original characters in Smash.
syn Sophia: developed Style Savvy, no original characters in Smash (would a Style Savvy character ever get in?).
Valhalla Game Studios: developed Devil's Third, no original characters in Smash.
Vitei: developed Steel Diver, no original characters in Smash.

Of Nintendo's second-party offerings: Camelot, Grezzo, Noise, and skip Ltd. all have characters with a chance, though you could extend that to Good-Feel. Additionally, syn Sophia, Valhalla, AlphaDream, and Vitei all have original characters, but none with a chance at appearing in Smash as a playable character.

For fun: looking at Nintendo's internal dev teams, these have no original characters in Smash:
Nintendo EAD Group 1: developed Luigi's Mansion (the first one), Nintendogs, and all Mario Karts since Double Dash. King Boo is the most realistic choice here.
That's it. EAD1 is the only internal dev group that has no original characters in Smash. Of the 5 EAD Groups, this one lacks a Smash character. I never would've guessed any of them did.

Anyway, the main point is Camelot may not be the only second-party without Smash characters, but the two (plus) it offers are by far the most popular. The next closest is Good-Feel's Prince Fluff, for sure. The slight Camelot has received from the Smash devs is kinda strange, to say the least. Good-Feel at least got a stage (Woolly World), Camelot doesn't even have that.

 

[SPEN18]

Actually...why can't we use force psynergy in combat? Now I want to beat people up with giant magic fists now...

Well there is this: http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Slap

 

[Undella2]

I still don't understand why they haven't replaced Sheik with Impa...

But if I had to make the cuts, then I would cut-

Sheik, Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Roy/Chrom, Zero Suit Samus, Snake, Pokémon Trainer, Toon Link, Wii Fit Trainer, Palutena, Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt, Ryu/Ken, Cloud, Corrin, Simon/Richter, Isabelle, and Incineroar.

Replace Sheik with Impa and Pokémon Trainer with just Charizard.

Most, if not all, echoes of fighters not cut would be kept.

Then add some newcomers.

That's who I would cut, anyway...

 

[StrawHatX]

I still don't understand why they haven't replaced Sheik with Impa...

But if I had to make the cuts, then I would cut-

Sheik, Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Roy/Chrom, Zero Suit Samus, Snake, Pokémon Trainer, Toon Link, Wii Fit Trainer, Palutena, Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt, Ryu/Ken, Cloud, Corrin, Simon/Richter, Isabelle, and Incineroar.

Replace Sheik with Impa and Pokémon Trainer with just Charizard.

Most, if not all, echoes of fighters not cut would be kept.

Then add some newcomers.

That's who I would cut, anyway...

I agree with a lot of it, but I’d rather keep Palutena and get rid of Dark Pit instead.

I’d also ditch Rosalina.

I’d also get rid of Falco and maybe one more Pokémon. Either Lucario or Greninja.

 

[Deleted member]

At least give him Fierce Deity as a Final Smash.

If the Sonic Mania crew could give Metal Sonic a brand-new boss battle, certainly Smash Bros. could release an update that gives Young Link a new Final Smash later on.

 

[StrawHatX]

Can I just say that I would really like to see Meowth as a playable Pokémon rep in a future Smash game. I just feel like he’d be a neat addition. When I played Smash 64 as a kid I always wished he was the 12th fighter instead of Jigglypuff (nothing against her).

 

[SonicLink125]

Can I just say that I would really like to see Meowth as a playable Pokémon rep in a future Smash game. I just feel like he’d be a neat addition. When I played Smash 64 as a kid I always wished he was the 12th fighter instead of Jigglypuff (nothing against her).

I too had wish this as Meowth would still be the most recruiting Pokémon next to Pikachu in the anime up to this day. Imagine his victory lines if he was also based from the anime?

Side note: It always baffled me that Team Rocket never took advantage of Meowth. They could have been making billions through Meowth translating Pokémon for others. Literally the best skill out of any Pokémon in my honest opinion.

Edit: words

 

[Deleted member]

Can I just say that I would really like to see Meowth as a playable Pokémon rep in a future Smash game. I just feel like he’d be a neat addition. When I played Smash 64 as a kid I always wished he was the 12th fighter instead of Jigglypuff (nothing against her).

It's... never gonna happen. That ship has long sailed.

The only chance Meowth truly had was Melee, and even then he was overshadowed by Mewtwo (because of the movie and villains) and Pichu (Generation II). Jigglypuff was implemented into the very first game was due to the ease of polygons since it was just a dumpy ball.

Meowth's popularity was based almost exclusively around the anime, and right after Melee's release was when the anime lost pretty much all of its mainstream appeal. It didn't go away, but it lost that status as a pop culture phenomenon since people got tired of what they thought was seeing the exact same story each episode. In fact, it wasn't until Generation VII when Meowth appeared in a regional PokeDex. This was 17 years after Gold and Silver was released.

Honestly, the only way a Pokemon will become playable is if the Pokemon itself fits a specific theme for a fighter, as opposed to the popularity of said Pokemon. People wanted Mimikyu, but that didn't happen. I mean, I wanted Misdreavus to appear in Smash Bros. in some capacity, but that has yet to actually happen.

 

[Undella2]

Can I just say that I would really like to see Meowth as a playable Pokémon rep in a future Smash game. I just feel like he’d be a neat addition. When I played Smash 64 as a kid I always wished he was the 12th fighter instead of Jigglypuff (nothing against her).

Eh, I can't really say the same.

People may complain about "too many anime swordpeople", but what really upsets me is when stuff that originated/got really popular only because of an anime, the Pokémon anime, gets into smash over stuff from the Pokémon spin-offs or main-series titles, which are actual games.

I'm fine with Jigglypuff only really because it's both part of the original 12 and because it actually had a valid reason to be in the original game. (Its model was based on Kirby's)

 

[StrawHatX]

It's... never gonna happen. That ship has long sailed.

The only chance Meowth truly had was Melee, and even then he was overshadowed by Mewtwo (because of the movie and villains) and Pichu (Generation II). Jigglypuff was implemented into the very first game was due to the ease of polygons since it was just a dumpy ball.

Meowth's popularity was based almost exclusively around the anime, and right after Melee's release was when the anime lost pretty much all of its mainstream appeal. It didn't go away, but it lost that status as a pop culture phenomenon since people got tired of what they thought was seeing the exact same story each episode. In fact, it wasn't until Generation VII when Meowth appeared in a regional PokeDex. This was 17 years after Gold and Silver was released.

Honestly, the only way a Pokemon will become playable is if the Pokemon itself fits a specific theme for a fighter, as opposed to the popularity of said Pokemon. People wanted Mimikyu, but that didn't happen. I mean, I wanted Misdreavus to appear in Smash Bros. in some capacity, but that has yet to actually happen.

Oh I agree it’ll most likely never happened. I just thought he’d be cool in the 64 version to be like the villain Pokémon. But we didn’t have any villains in that game with such a small roster.

The only reason I don’t think it’s 100% impossible is because of all the Gen 1 pandering we get from Pokémon all the time.

Pokémon Go was massively popular when it came out 2 years ago with just the first 150 and now the Let’s Go games have already sold over 3 million copies.

But it won’t happen.

 

[ZelDan]

Ideally, if there HAD to be cuts, the only cuts a future Smash game would get would be:

Mii Swordsman
Mii Gunner
Mii Brawler
Young Link
Toon Link
Dr. Mario
Pichu
Piranha Plant

Just by cutting the more redundant characters or downright lame ones (mii fighters and Plant), that already cuts out 8 characters which is significant, especially with all the customization stuff behind the Mii characters gone too.

And, honestly, for a Smash 6, one approach that could actually be interesting is instead of focusing on cutting characters to make room for a boatload of new ones, maybe just keep the characters that are already in the game and change some up. Make Ganondorf more unique, maybe do something crazy like make Samus/ZSS into on character and give them the Pokemon trainer treatment, maybe make some echoes into unique characters or semi clones (Dark Samus being a big one). Maybe design Daisy to look like her Strikers self and give her a sports moveset. Make Cappy a part of Mario's moveset.

 

[StrawHatX]

Ideally, if there HAD to be cuts, the only cuts a future Smash game would get would be:

Mii Swordsman
Mii Gunner
Mii Brawler
Young Link
Toon Link
Dr. Mario
Pichu
Piranha Plant

Just by cutting the more redundant characters or downright lame ones (mii fighters and Plant), that already cuts out 8 characters which is significant, especially with all the customization stuff behind the Mii characters gone too.

And, honestly, for a Smash 6, one approach that could actually be interesting is instead of focusing on cutting characters to make room for a boatload of new ones, maybe just keep the characters that are already in the game and change some up. Make Ganondorf more unique, maybe do something crazy like make Samus/ZSS into on character and give them the Pokemon trainer treatment, maybe make some echoes into unique characters or semi clones (Dark Samus being a big one). Maybe design Daisy to look like her Strikers self and give her a sports moveset. Make Cappy a part of Mario's moveset.

You think they’d keep all the Fire Emblem characters?

 

[Istry555]

Honestly, I'd get rid of all the clones, characters represented more than once (Links, Marios, Samuses), and most of the third parties. Otherwise, I'd try to preserve any character with a unique moveset that doesn't fall into that, even the weird ones.

So:

Dark Samus
Daisy
Sheik (but replaced with Impa)
Dr. Mario
Pichu
Falco or Wolf (but not both)
Lucina
Young Link
Toon Link
Roy
Chrom
Dark Pit
Zero Suit Samus
Ness or Lucas (probably Lucas, but not both)
Two of the Miis classes (rework Mii fighters to be a more customizable single Mii class)
Ryu
Ken
Cloud
Snake
Richter
Bayonetta
Isabelle or Villager (but not both)

 

[Sentinel07]

The man's been quite vocal about the strain and stress any Smash game puts on him, I think he's looking for someone who can commit the same level of grind Sakurai puts in. He's probably been looking around for a successor for a while (probably since Brawl, tbh), but he clearly hasn't found anyone yet. We may yet get more Sakurai goodness if he can't find anyone (provided the stress doesn't kill him first).

Honestly speaking, I think the guy that's been in charge of Kirby for the past decade or so, Shinya Kumazaki, would make for a nice fit. He's already done many of the things Sakurai did with the Kirby games (and there's a lot of that influence in Smash Bros), and he's already had a taste of Smash with Kirby Fighters Deluxe (basically Smash just with Kirby).

Honestly, I'd get rid of all the clones, characters represented more than once (Links, Marios, Samuses), and most of the third parties. Otherwise, I'd try to preserve any character with a unique moveset that doesn't fall into that, even the weird ones.

So:

Dark Samus
Daisy
Sheik (but replaced with Impa)
Dr. Mario
Pichu
Falco or Wolf (but not both)
Lucina
Young Link
Toon Link
Roy
Chrom
Dark Pit
Zero Suit Samus
Ness or Lucas (probably Lucas, but not both)
Two of the Miis classes (rework Mii fighters to be a more customizable single Mii class)
Ryu
Ken
Cloud
Snake
Richter
Bayonetta
Isabelle or Villager (but not both)

Personally speaking, I think Bayonetta should stay. While it is true that she's technically 3rd-party, Nintendo does have a stake in her by owning Bayonetta 2 (and I bet they own some of Bayonetta 3 too). To an extent, she feels like a pseudo-Nintendo character at this point, at least to me.

 

[ZelDan]

You think they’d keep all the Fire Emblem characters?

Eh, I don't know if they'd bring back both Lucina AND Chrom, and as for the few unique FE characters, I could maybe see Corrin getting the boot.