Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Are you not counting Eevee because its evolutions come from multiple generations?

No, I'm not counting Eevee because I forgot it, actually. My bad.

That said, trying to incorporate the eeveelutions faithfully, which is the whole point, is probably too difficult to do. Since only the Manga allowed switching among them, and that is non-canon nor represents what it's meant to be.

 

[osby]

Are you not counting Eevee because its evolutions come from multiple generations?

I doubt Sakurai would return adding Pokemon from first gen. I know they are iconic and stuff but we have already six of them. No reason to stick to the past when new Pokemon can be just as interesting.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I doubt Sakurai would return adding Pokemon from first gen. I know they are iconic and stuff but we have already six of them. No reason to stick to the past when new Pokemon can be just as interesting.

I myself would rather have post-gen-1 Pokemon, but there's a reason why Let's Go Eevee is a thing.

 

[osby]

I myself would rather have post-gen-1 Pokemon, but there's a reason why Let's Go Eevee is a thing.

Of course, but characters' popularity in their own franchises doesn't always translate to Smash.

 

[Undella2]

I would prefer Scizor 'cause Pokémon Crystal bias, but let's get back to Isaac/Golden Sun talk now, shall we?

 

[SPEN18]

I agree that the reveal order was total trash. But that's a non-issue if the reveals themselves are all good choices. I think the real reason for the backlash is not simply the order of the reveals, but the choices themselves. But that's just me.

There are a few other things about the presentation that irked me; for example, how Isabelle was treated as fully unique when she's a clone. But again, that's all secondary to the confusion over the character choices themselves.

Also, there is a real argument that K. Rool was the only character chosen from the ballot. The fact that such an argument even exists is telling about how they went about this.

I'll also say that in general, I'm not one to say that things should always be determined by popularity; in reality, lots of ideas that get popular are just wrong. But in the case of Smash I think that the community largely has it right, or at least much closer to right than whatever marketing gurus decided Incineroar was a good idea. There do have to be some limits; for example, if Goku won the ballot then even I wouldn't be happy about him hypothetically making it in. But in this case the characters that are highly requested are largely requested for good, legitimate reasons.

Also, any time you ask people what they want and then fail to fully deliver, it's gonna look bad just about any way you slice it. Sure, we got some things we requested but we also got a lot that almost nobody asked for and that confuses people.

 

[Deleted member]

Game's out in the open. Time is now to see what other spirits from the series are in here and what their battle conditions are. I'm dying to know what Felix's battle conditions are, and to see if Sakurai decided to take note of his characteristics.

It'll probably be Lucina spamming her mask taunt, lol.

 

[Arcadenik]

Meowth, along with Gengar, are the two biggest missing Gen 1 Pokemon of choice. They're the most well known left and fully promoted/pushed over and over in some way.

Yes! It is baffling how Sakurai still snubs Meowth and Gengar despite them being internationally well-known and consistently promoted by The Pokémon Company (not in the same level as Pikachu but still). The Pokémon Company even added Jessie, James, and Meowth in Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee to attract more people. People were hyped when the Team Rocket trio were announced to be in the game. Imagine the hype if Team Rocket actually get in Smash as a playable fighter.

Also, there is a real argument that K. Rool was the only character chosen from the ballot. The fact that such an argument even exists is telling about how they went about this.

What? But what about Ridley, Simon Belmont (I know I voted for him), Isabelle, Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus? Maybe they got many votes too? I am sure Inkling got many votes but I am not counting her. It was obvious Inkling was getting in anyway, ballot or no ballot.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Here is an interesting thought experiment. What if Golden Sun is brought back as a remake/retelling for the Nintendo 3DS? Would you buy the game? I know last time I brought it up there was a lot of whining that they did not want to buy anything for the dated 3DS. The thing is though is that prior to the September direct, Jonneh (someone that has leaked many things before) name dropped this hypothetical title alongside a bunch of other things that did get announced during the September direct (even something as specific as a Kirby's Epic Yarn port for the 3DS).

I'm pretty sure that the issue most people here had with the idea is not that they would whine and refuse to buy it themselves, but rather fear that it wouldn't be a financial success due to it coming out on a dated console. And yeah, that's where I'm at. I'd buy it without hesitation, but the thought of the game coming out on the 3DS absolutely terrifies me. Another financial disappointment really could spell the end of the series. Coming out this late in the 3DS's lifespan, I'm not sure anything other than Pokemon could pull of a true "financial success". At best, it would probably just do okay, and at worst could outright bomb. Golden Sun has lots of supporters, but we're going to need more. It needs to come out on the Switch with proper advertising.
So yeah, it would be bittersweet. We'd have Golden Sun back, but honestly I think it would very possibly be the last of we see of the series. Hopefully I'm wrong. Maybe it would be cheap enough to produce that an okay reception would be enough, which I think was the case with games like Shadows of Valentia and WarioWare Gold, right?

 

[Gioka]

Here is an interesting thought experiment. What if Golden Sun is brought back as a remake/retelling for the Nintendo 3DS? Would you buy the game? I know last time I brought it up there was a lot of whining that they did not want to buy anything for the dated 3DS. The thing is though is that prior to the September direct, Jonneh (someone that has leaked many things before) name dropped this hypothetical title alongside a bunch of other things that did get announced during the September direct (even something as specific as a Kirby's Epic Yarn port for the 3DS).

Would I buy it? Yes. Probably several copies, some as gift for people I want to introduce to the franchise, one to keep closed and one for playing. Would I consider it a good move? No. That is literally asking to put the final nail to GS' coffin. One of the reasons Dark Dawn did poorly was because it was launched when the DS was dying (plus the terrible marketing), so why would you repeat that? If you want to give the franchise a fair chance it would have to be on the Switch, specially because it already has the portability to make it feel genuine so there is literally 0 reason to put it on 3DS at this point.

 

[Ura]

Much like anything to do with Advance Wars, I'll take anything Golden Sun related whether it's on the Switch, 3DS, or Mobile.

The last thing these two franchises needs is an uproar about them after being gone for a decade. I.e. People are cheesed that said games are on the 3DS and not the Switch so they protest by not buying. Then said series goes even further down the drain.

And hey, the Switch would def be my desired system for these franchises to return but f it i'll take whatever I can get at this point.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Here is an interesting thought experiment. What if Golden Sun is brought back as a remake/retelling for the Nintendo 3DS? Would you buy the game? I know last time I brought it up there was a lot of whining that they did not want to buy anything for the dated 3DS. The thing is though is that prior to the September direct, Jonneh (someone that has leaked many things before) name dropped this hypothetical title alongside a bunch of other things that did get announced during the September direct (even something as specific as a Kirby's Epic Yarn port for the 3DS).

Would I buy it? Yes. Probably several copies, some as gift for people I want to introduce to the franchise, one to keep closed and one for playing. Would I consider it a good move? No. That is literally asking to put the final nail to GS' coffin. One of the reasons Dark Dawn did poorly was because it was launched when the DS was dying (plus the terrible marketing), so why would you repeat that? If you want to give the franchise a fair chance it would have to be on the Switch, specially because it already has the portability to make it feel genuine so there is literally 0 reason to put it on 3DS at this point.

Exactly what Gioka said. I’d buy it. I’d convince my friends to buy it and they don’t even have 3DS’s.

But I don’t think it’d be a smart move for the sake of Golden Sun’s future.

The argument I see a lot of people use is that the 3DS is getting a lot of remakes. And while that is true, none of them are doing particularly great. There’s also the fact that a mainline game is coming to the Switch.

Luigi’s Mansion remake just came out. But Luigi’s Mansion 3 is coming out on the Switch.

Samus Returns came out not too long ago. But Metroid Prime 4 is coming out in the Switch.

The only games this doesn’t apply to are the Mario and Luigi games. Unless they do indeed announce one fairly soon lol.

But anyway. I will take Golden Sun in any capacity. I am a fan, after all. But I’m also a fan that wants to see the franchise have a shot. And he best shot GS has are remakes on the Switch to introduce new fans to the world of Weyard and the original story.

Then from there a Dark Dawn remake bundled with its second half.

 

[Nauzgo]

Honestly I think there might be a new golden sun game in development possibly for the next year or later. I’m just hoping we don’t see a new Mario sports game at the next Nintendo direct so we can have more hope Camelot is developing one right now. And if a new golden sun game came for the switch, it could potentially bring in adult Isaac or Matthew into the roster as dlc.

That's certainly possible. From what I know, Mario Tennis Aces reused much of the models and stuff they already used in Mario Tennis Ultra Smash (which makes sense lol). That means that Aces probably hadn't taken much efforts to develop so Camelot's new game may already be in late development process.

Now we just gotta hope that GS is first, and not Mario Golf...

 

[Nimbostratus]

I'm curious, what are people's thoughts on what a hypothetical financial/critical success of a Camelot Mario sports title means for Golden Sun? Would it mean that Camelot earns the financial and creative freedom from Nintendo to make a game like Golden Sun, or does it just reaffirm that spin-offs are the most financially viable option, thus further cementing Camelot into their current role?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Trying to balance the expected and unexpected is definitely a fragile, fickle thing. But I agree that it would be utterly bizarre if Smash went the Injustice/Mortal Kombat route with odd guest choices.

I'm curious, what are people's thoughts on what a hypothetical financial/critical success of a Camelot Mario sports title means for Golden Sun? Would it mean that Camelot earns the financial and creative freedom from Nintendo to make a game like Golden Sun, or does it just reaffirm that spin-offs are the most financially viable option, thus further cementing Camelot into their current role?

Hopefully it's not the latter, Camelot isn't healthy enough to be like Sumo Digital these days.

Yes! It is baffling how Sakurai still snubs Meowth and Gengar despite them being internationally well-known and consistently promoted by The Pokémon Company (not in the same level as Pikachu but still). The Pokémon Company even added Jessie, James, and Meowth in Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee to attract more people. People were hyped when the Team Rocket trio were announced to be in the game. Imagine the hype if Team Rocket actually get in Smash as a playable fighter.



What? But what about Ridley, Simon Belmont (I know I voted for him), Isabelle, Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus? Maybe they got many votes too? I am sure Inkling got many votes but I am not counting her. It was obvious Inkling was getting in anyway, ballot or no ballot.

I still think that Sakurai has to add at least one recent Pokemon per entry, otherwise TPC will get pissed at him. It's what the higher-ups want, who are we to complain...And even if more Gen Oners get in, the fans of later generations will call foul on bias. It's a lose-lose situation, overall.

That said, I wonder if Eeevee's upcoming Tamagotchi-exclusive evolution can serve as a loophole for Bandai Namco to justify a Smash inclusion.

 

[osby]

Trying to balance the expected and unexpected is definitely a fragile, fickle thing. But I agree that it would be utterly bizarre if Smash went the Injustice/Mortal Kombat route with odd guest choices.



Hopefully it's not the latter, Camelot isn't healthy enough to be like Sumo Digital these days.



I still think that Sakurai has to add at least one recent Pokemon per entry, otherwise TPC will get pissed at him. It's what the higher-ups want, who are we to complain...And even if more Gen Oners get in, the fans of later generations will call foul on bias. It's a lose-lose situation, overall.

That said, I wonder if Eeevee's upcoming Tamagotchi-exclusive evolution can serve as a loophole for Bandai Namco to justify a Smash inclusion.

Lose-lose? It's obvious Sakurai wanted to add a pro-wrestler and a lot of people warmed up to him. I don't think TPC made Sakurai add Incineroar by holding him at gunpoint.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I still think that Sakurai has to add at least one recent Pokemon per entry, otherwise TPC will get pissed at him. It's what the higher-ups want, who are we to complain...And even if more Gen Oners get in, the fans of later generations will call foul on bias. It's a lose-lose situation, overall.

That said, I wonder if Eeevee's upcoming Tamagotchi-exclusive evolution can serve as a loophole for Bandai Namco to justify a Smash inclusion.

Eh, I'm not sure how interested Bamco is in a new rep.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Lose-lose? It's obvious Sakurai wanted to add a pro-wrestler and a lot of people warmed up to him. I don't think TPC made Sakurai add Incineroar by holding him at gunpoint.

Well that is fair, but you do have to admit that something is making them avoid more Gen 1 additions. What it is, is the complete mystery.

 

[osby]

Well that is fair, but you do have to admit that something is making them avoid more Gen 1 additions. What it is, is the complete mystery.

I think it's called

 

[Gioka]

I'm curious, what are people's thoughts on what a hypothetical financial/critical success of a Camelot Mario sports title means for Golden Sun? Would it mean that Camelot earns the financial and creative freedom from Nintendo to make a game like Golden Sun, or does it just reaffirm that spin-offs are the most financially viable option, thus further cementing Camelot into their current role?

Eh, I think neither. They must treat those things as separate entities (or they should, at least) because comparing those or using it as parting point seems unfair, they aren't even in the same game genre and Mario is one of the strongest franchises, it prints money, of course it will always be successful, that doesn't mean that GS can't be or any other JRPG, it would be a matter of trying and also trying to market it better, I know times have to do with that but more official merch wouldn't hurt!

That being said, they possibly held Camelot back since Mario Tennis Ultra smash didn't do good and told them to make one for the Switch since is a more financially successful platform and also to not leave a bad mouth flavor to fans.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think it's called

In any case, it's dang near-impossible to ask for a specific Pokemon in Smash. You just hope that your favorite one from the latest batch gets in (assuming it's showcased enough in Pokemon marketing first).

That being said, they possibly held Camelot back since Mario Tennis Ultra smash didn't do good and told them to make one for the Switch since is a more financially successful platform and also to not leave a bad mouth flavor to fans.

That seems likely. Last thing they need is shutting down due to an underperforming project, which thankfully didn't happen.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Lose-lose? It's obvious Sakurai wanted to add a pro-wrestler and a lot of people warmed up to him. I don't think TPC made Sakurai add Incineroar by holding him at gunpoint.

I just hate Inciniroar. Ever since PKMN Trainer and Greninja, people (and I guess Sakurai) feel the need to add a starter.

My issues with Inciniroar aside, I think it would have been much cooler to do something else with a new Pokemon rep. Like add an Ultra Beast as a playable fighter. I don’t even like S&M that much, but an Ultra Beast would be sick.

That being said I don’t hate the idea of Inciniroar. That is to say I don’t hate the idea of a pro wrestler in Smash. I just hate Inciniroar.

 

[osby]

I just hate Inciniroar. Ever since PKMN Trainer and Greninja, people (and I guess Sakurai) feel the need to add a starter.

My issues with Inciniroar aside, I think it would have been much cooler to do something else with a new Pokemon rep. Like add an Ultra Beast as a playable fighter. I don’t even like S&M that much, but an Ultra Beast would be sick.

That being said I don’t hate the idea of Inciniroar. That is to say I don’t hate the idea of a pro wrestler in Smash. I just hate Inciniroar.

Cool. Now can you explain why should I care?

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Cool. Now can you explain why should I care?

Huh...

Just trying to have a friendly conversation. Don’t exactly see where the sass is warranted.

You don’t have to care. Never said you should.

 

[osby]

Huh...

Just trying to have a friendly conversation. Don’t exactly see where the sass is warranted.

You don’t have to care. Never said you should.

You quoted me while I replied someone else and first thing you do is saying you hate a character I may or may not like.

This is a bad of starting a friendly conversation and unnecessary if I shouldn't care.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

You quoted me while I replied someone else and first thing you do is saying you hate a character I may or may not like.

This is a bad of starting a friendly conversation and unnecessary if I shouldn't care.

Cool. **** me for speaking my mind.

I apologize I suppose. Peace.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

Cool. **** me for speaking my mind.

I apologize I suppose. Peace.

I'm not a big fan of inciniroar either, so I completely understand all your points.

 

[jweb23]

Lose-lose? It's obvious Sakurai wanted to add a pro-wrestler and a lot of people warmed up to him. I don't think TPC made Sakurai add Incineroar by holding him at gunpoint.

Sakurai’s quote of always wanting to add a wrestler is really strange to me!

I don’t know if anyone up here is a fan of Rhythm Heaven but one of their more popular and recognizable mini games features a pro wrestler and considering there was scrapped RH content in Smash 4 means there must have been serious consideration for a playable character at some point, so why not use the wrestler that has been around for about a decade.

His quote makes me believe he is forced to always add a Pokémon and this time they finally made a wrestler Pokémon with a design he liked.

 

[osby]

Sakurai’s quote of always wanting to add a wrestler is really strange to me!

I don’t know if anyone up here is a fan of Rhythm Heaven but one of their more popular and recognizable mini games features a pro wrestler and considering there was scrapped RH content in Smash 4 means there must have been serious consideration for a playable character at some point, so why not use the wrestler that has been around for about a decade.

His quote makes me believe he is forced to always add a Pokémon and this time they finally made a wrestler Pokémon with a design he liked.

...so, you're saying Sakurai is forced to add a character because there are other characters with same archetype exists? *X-Files theme starts to play*

Nah, I think he just saw the chance and took it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sakurai’s quote of always wanting to add a wrestler is really strange to me!

I don’t know if anyone up here is a fan of Rhythm Heaven but one of their more popular and recognizable mini games features a pro wrestler and considering there was scrapped RH content in Smash 4 means there must have been serious consideration for a playable character at some point, so why not use the wrestler that has been around for about a decade.

His quote makes me believe he is forced to always add a Pokémon and this time they finally made a wrestler Pokémon with a design he liked.

Yeah, it’s really a waste. It could have been somebody like RH Wrestler or Starman or Amazon from Pro Wrestling. Even someone like Zangief or Mike Haggar. Now I guess they’re all banned from the roster for redundancy.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I agree that the reveal order was total trash. But that's a non-issue if the reveals themselves are all good choices. I think the real reason for the backlash is not simply the order of the reveals, but the choices themselves. But that's just me.

There are a few other things about the presentation that irked me; for example, how Isabelle was treated as fully unique when she's a clone. But again, that's all secondary to the confusion over the character choices themselves.

Also, there is a real argument that K. Rool was the only character chosen from the ballot. The fact that such an argument even exists is telling about how they went about this.

I'll also say that in general, I'm not one to say that things should always be determined by popularity; in reality, lots of ideas that get popular are just wrong. But in the case of Smash I think that the community largely has it right, or at least much closer to right than whatever marketing gurus decided Incineroar was a good idea. There do have to be some limits; for example, if Goku won the ballot then even I wouldn't be happy about him hypothetically making it in. But in this case the characters that are highly requested are largely requested for good, legitimate reasons.

Also, any time you ask people what they want and then fail to fully deliver, it's gonna look bad just about any way you slice it. Sure, we got some things we requested but we also got a lot that almost nobody asked for and that confuses people.

Timing was also a big issue. I appreciate Sakurai apologizing for blowing their load early, but that doesn't change them dropping one character during a very long drought and then finally following up with the most obvious characters (even without leaks, Ken was a lock in everybody's eyes and GF would have had Sakurai's head if he didn't shove in another Pokemon). Then the Assist Trophy section sweeps a bunch of speculated characters into the gutter (with Shadow and Isaac being the biggest stingers because of how long they were held back for seemingly no reason).

And then the first DLC character is revealed to be a generic Mario enemy. Now I think it's a great choice, but at the same time definitely feels very...obnoxious, especially when Sakurai elaborated on why it was chosen.

Had they ended things off with the Belmonts and/or K. Rool, it'd probably have wrapped worse.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Timing was also a big issue. I appreciate Sakurai apologizing for blowing their load early, but that doesn't change them dropping one character during a very long drought and then finally following up with the most obvious characters (even without leaks, Ken was a lock in everybody's eyes and GF would have had Sakurai's head if he didn't shove in another Pokemon). Then the Assist Trophy section sweeps a bunch of speculated characters into the gutter (with Shadow and Isaac being the biggest stingers because of how long they were held back for seemingly no reason).

And then the first DLC character is revealed to be a generic Mario enemy. Now I think it's a great choice, but at the same time definitely feels very...obnoxious, especially when Sakurai elaborated on why it was chosen.

Had they ended things off with the Belmonts and/or K. Rool, it'd probably have wrapped worse.

I think that Sakurai was assigned a bunch of morons to him as the marketing department. You gotta feel sorry for the guy, given that they couldn't even get basic things like Sheik's true gender right. Surely, they could have had time to actually train people handling marketing for the last three years, but it is what it is. Wouldn't be shocked if that's why Sakurai will be taking a break after this.

It's a wonder they somehow managed to hide the DLC characters so far, even while the fanbase fussed over whatever Hitagi claimed.

 

[Gioka]

I think that Sakurai was assigned a bunch of morons to him as the marketing department. You gotta feel sorry for the guy, given that they couldn't even get basic things like Sheik's true gender right. Surely, they could have had time to actually train people handling marketing for the last three years, but it is what it is. Wouldn't be shocked if that's why Sakurai will be taking a break after this.

It's a wonder they somehow managed to hide the DLC characters so far, even while the fanbase fussed over whatever Hitagi claimed.

Probably because they learned from last time and haven't told the Marketing team about them yet, there is no need to market them over after it was already said how they are coming, the price, and when. But I am suspicious that they seemingly have such a bad Marketing/PR team, not because Smash has a weak marketing but they make basic mistakes like the box revealing literally what was left.

 

[SonicLink125]

Yes! It is baffling how Sakurai still snubs Meowth and Gengar despite them being internationally well-known and consistently promoted by The Pokémon Company (not in the same level as Pikachu but still). The Pokémon Company even added Jessie, James, and Meowth in Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee to attract more people. People were hyped when the Team Rocket trio were announced to be in the game. Imagine the hype if Team Rocket actually get in Smash as a playable fighter.

It's interesting you mention Meowth because, if I remember correctly, he was planned to be in Smash way back in Smash 64/Melee, but never happened. It's to bad because Meowth has been one of my favorite characters in the anime. It always confused me that Jigglypuff was chosen over him instead (nothing against Jiggs here btw).

Here is an interesting thought experiment. What if Golden Sun is brought back as a remake/retelling for the Nintendo 3DS? Would you buy the game? I know last time I brought it up there was a lot of whining that they did not want to buy anything for the dated 3DS. The thing is though is that prior to the September direct, Jonneh (someone that has leaked many things before) name dropped this hypothetical title alongside a bunch of other things that did get announced during the September direct (even something as specific as a Kirby's Epic Yarn port for the 3DS).

I will still buy it if it was on the 3DS regardless. Anything Golden Sun I will support all the way. However, I will be disappointed that they didn't put it on the Switch. As games like Octopath Traveler on the Switch have proven, you don't need to have amazing 3D graphics to enjoy a great game.

 

[Arcadenik]

I just hate Inciniroar. Ever since PKMN Trainer and Greninja, people (and I guess Sakurai) feel the need to add a starter.

My issues with Inciniroar aside, I think it would have been much cooler to do something else with a new Pokemon rep. Like add an Ultra Beast as a playable fighter. I don’t even like S&M that much, but an Ultra Beast would be sick.

That being said I don’t hate the idea of Inciniroar. That is to say I don’t hate the idea of a pro wrestler in Smash. I just hate Inciniroar.

Team Rocket would be much cooler new Pokémon rep than yet another starter.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Team Rocket would be much cooler new Pokémon rep than yet another starter.

At this stage, it's best to pray that they don't pick Eevee over TR when Smash 6 rolls around. That is assuming they add a newcomer for both PLG and Gen 8, anyway.

It's interesting you mention Meowth because, if I remember correctly, he was planned to be in Smash way back in Smash 64/Melee, but never happened. It's to bad because Meowth has been one of my favorite characters in the anime. It always confused me that Jigglypuff was chosen over him instead (nothing against Jiggs here btw).



I will still buy it if it was on the 3DS regardless. Anything Golden Sun I will support all the way. However, I will be disappointed that they didn't put it on the Switch. As games like Octopath Traveler on the Switch have proven, you don't need to have amazing 3D graphics to enjoy a great game.

That's the spirit.

That said, wasn't that claim disproven? Mewtwo apparently would have been picked instead (which would still make sense, due to the first movie).

 

[jweb23]

...so, you're saying Sakurai is forced to add a character because there are other characters with same archetype exists? *X-Files theme starts to play*

Nah, I think he just saw the chance and took it.

Maybe.

I just find it ridiculous to say you always wanted to make a pro wrestler when a popular series had one for over a decade but now you feel like it due to a starter Pokémon finally fitting the mold...

Also this being the second straight game where he purposely left a slot open for a Pokémon...pretty sure he’s supposed to add one every game.

 

[Ninjaed]

Same, I dislike Incineroar. He doesn't have much appeal at all and it shows, scoring dead last in his last evolution form (I think his first kitty form did better). To be fair, Decidueye's archetype has already been done several times in Smash. Primarina would've prob been the better choice between her and Incineroar but... honestly? You say "Pokémon Sun/Moon" to me, I think...

Nebby.

Why the HECK didn't they make Nebby playable?! He's the ONE Pokémon that represents Sun/Moon the BEST!! He could transform into his sun or moon form to smash then revert back, as for his other moves he could:
- teleport (up-B)
- sunsteel strike/moongeist beam depending on last form used (from smashes, maybe other moves too?), ignoring shields - the former rushing in, the latter sending a beam (side-B)
- create 2 linked wormholes behaving like those from the game Portal (neutral B)
- Cosmic Power, giving him limited super armour (down-B)

Boom! How unique is that for you?! As for whether it'd be OP? No. Wormholes would require time to be properly set up. Well used they'd be good (to deny a path or reposition for a surprise attack) - but not broken. For his side-B, well Charizard's side-B has a startup delay, it'd be the same here... and you could dodge then punish, or play aerial where shields don't even exist.

Lastly limited super armour require time to set it up then you still take the damage. Nebby would be very floaty, so it'd still be a bad idea to get hit too often - a grab, throw => dead. Main uses would be safely recover, safer approach and kill confirms. Counterplay: kite him, use it up, ???, profit.

In other words, it'd be like a Jigglypuff that has weaker pressure and air game, making up for that by more utility and tricks. See? I came up with that just now, that's how much potential Nebby has!! As for my improvised kit, it's something Smash doesn't have, mechanics that would make people want to play him without overshadowing existing characters, a Pokémon that is loved by a great many... I just don't get it. Why Incineroar? Why??

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If he wanted a wrestler, it's clear that not enough people voted for Star Man so he'd notice. Shame on those people.

 

[Arcadenik]

If he wanted a wrestler, it's clear that not enough people voted for Star Man so he'd notice. Shame on those people.

I would have loved a Pro Wrestling character. I love that NES game and I’m happy it’s on the Switch.