Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Here is an interesting thought experiment. What if Golden Sun is brought back as a remake/retelling for the Nintendo 3DS? Would you buy the game? I know last time I brought it up there was a lot of whining that they did not want to buy anything for the dated 3DS. The thing is though is that prior to the September direct, Jonneh (someone that has leaked many things before) name dropped this hypothetical title alongside a bunch of other things that did get announced during the September direct (even something as specific as a Kirby's Epic Yarn port for the 3DS).

People often get that confused. It was Derrick that brought up the idea of a Golden Sun remake on 3DS not John

 

[GoodGrief741]

If he wanted a wrestler, it's clear that not enough people voted for Star Man so he'd notice. Shame on those people.

I mean, he probably still had more votes than Incineroar.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I mean, he probably still had more votes than Incineroar.

Literally any character in existence would've got more votes than Incineroar since the public didn't know about him until 2016

 

[KMDP]

I mean, he probably still had more votes than Incineroar.

Pretty sure Incineroar didn't exist when the Ballot was running.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Literally any character in existence would've got more votes than Incineroar since the public didn't know about him until 2016

Pretty sure Incineroar didn't exist when the Ballot was running.

That was the joke, guys.

 

[Ura]

People often get that confused. It was Derrick that brought up the idea of a Golden Sun remake on 3DS not John

Is Derrick the guy with the British accent? Because he's the one who brought up Golden Sun.

 

[Q-Long]

Hope you have all been well

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Is Derrick the guy with the British accent? Because he's the one who brought up Golden Sun.

Oops I went to the wrong time stamp. Regardless not every thing John says is a hidden leak as he once said he predicts Shadow being a semi clone with a machine gun or something along those lines. Although Epic Yarn and the Final Fantasy info I do believe was inside information. Maybe the Golden Sun 3DS remake was outdated info and is being moved to the Switch who knows, I'm kind of not seeing the 3DS getting many games going forward considering how short the 3DS section was in the last direct although. Regardless if the 3DS does get a new Golden Sun game we need to do everything we can to make it successful.

 

[Silo777]

Isaac’s situation is just so strange to me...I can’t quite understand it. I’ve been trying to make sense of it with these crazy theories but it’s honestly just such a weird outcome.

The Rathalos Tweet
The Trademark
Assist was shown at the very end
Assist has new moves
No new music (most likely)

These 5 are the things that, while not much separately, paint a questionable picture when combined. It’s either things were horrendously coincidental, Nintendo is a jerk, or there’s something a bit deeper there.

There’s been a lot of discussion around the Rathalos Tweet and whether or not it’s a reference. However, I haven’t seen a lot of people discuss why. Why would Sakurai do this, and why Isaac specifically? There wasn’t much of a reason to see beforehand other than he wanted to, but now I think I can see a more concrete answer. Perhaps Sakurai knew exactly what assist trophies mean to fans and feels like he’s misleading them because Isaac is going to be an exception, hence why he thought it was necessary to do this.

Hope you have all been well

Oh yeah I’m totally mentally stable...

*collapses under ridiculous theories*

 

[Gioka]

Hope you have all been well

You have been missed!

 

[SonicLink125]

Don't know if you all heard, but Elma and Detective Pikachu have been confirmed as Spirits.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9zfv09/detective_pikachu_and_elma_are_confirmed_spirits/

Imagine if they had a Detective Pikachu alt and when you use it, Ryan Renolds is speaking for Pikachu. That would be hilarious!

 

[JaidynReiman]

Don't know if you all heard, but Elma and Detective Pikachu have been confirmed as Spirits.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9zfv09/detective_pikachu_and_elma_are_confirmed_spirits/

Imagine if they had a Detective Pikachu alt and when you use it, Ryan Renolds is speaking for Pikachu. That would be hilarious!

Elma was confirmed on Monday actually. Along with Bandana Dee. We have seen Jenna today. I don't know what footage she was spotted in but I saw a screenshot on Discord with Jenna as a two star.

 

[Gioka]

Elma was confirmed on Monday actually. Along with Bandana Dee. We have seen Jenna today. I don't know what footage she was spotted in but I saw a screenshot on Discord with Jenna as a two star.

It is getting weird that Isaac hasn't been spotted yet, isn't it?

 

[Deleted member]

Elma was confirmed on Monday actually. Along with Bandana Dee. We have seen Jenna today. I don't know what footage she was spotted in but I saw a screenshot on Discord with Jenna as a two star.

Ooh! Post, please.

 

[SPEN18]

What? But what about Ridley, Simon Belmont (I know I voted for him), Isabelle, Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus? Maybe they got many votes too? I am sure Inkling got many votes but I am not counting her. It was obvious Inkling was getting in anyway, ballot or no ballot.

To be clear, Ridley is definitely a "fan demand" character, but he didn't specifically get in because of the ballot. Obviously we don't have the results of the ballot so we can't say for sure, but he was very likely hurt badly on the ballot for already being a stage boss and Sakurai going out of his way to explain why Ridley couldn't be a fighter in Smash 4. This is supported by the exit poll, which has Ridley 15th behind many other first parties like Isaac, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, and even Krystal. So yes he's popular, but didn't really get added primarily due to the ballot itself.

Simon Belmont is popular and is a gaming icon. But like Ridley, he isn't necessarily due to the ballot. The exit poll has him 28th. Almost surely he wasn't voted on as much as other third parties like Geno, Banjo, Rayman, and Shantae. I've argued in previous posts that Simon is more of a "Sakurai choice" so to speak than a fan pick, though my arguments for that are admittedly a bit less concrete. I will also say that demand for Simon didn't really explode until after the Vergeben leaks and the knowledge that Snake was coming back.

I hesitate to label any Echoes as truly being ballot choices, mostly since they are characters that likely wouldn't be in at all if they weren't easy clones. Daisy is popular among Mario fans but within the Smash fanbase there's no way she placed higher than Waluigi, for example. Dark Samus and Chrom did get some votes on the ballot, but they weren't all that high up according to pretty much all the data we have. And again, I doubt they would've been added without being easy Echoes.

So the short of it is that they pretty much only "used" the ballot when it suited them, whether that be taking the most popular out of the easy clones or citing it whenever it helped them justify an inclusion ("Bayo wun Yurup guyzz"). They also picked a handful of characters that were indeed popular, but Sakurai's knowledge of these characters' popularity would not come primarily from the ballot. So there is an argument that the ballot itself was barely used; the glaring exception is K. Rool, who was likely the winner.

---------

Timing was also a big issue

Yeah not saying any of these other things weren't issues. Just that I don't think that any of them are the main issue.

 

[NessAtc.]

Here's Jenna.
I'm a bit more disappointed that we've still not gotten Isaac yet now, because otherwise we could have formed a GS party with the spirits. Oh well, we've still got plenty of time

 

[SPEN18]

We have seen Jenna today. I don't know what footage she was spotted in but I saw a screenshot on Discord with Jenna as a two star.

!!!!!!!!

Yeah Jenna!!!!

 

[StrawHatX]

I’m glad to hear Jenna is a spirit. That’s cool. But where’s my boy Alex?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Ooh! Post, please.

Here it is.


EDIT: 'd

 

[TappyBat]

man waddles and elma too? at this point there's no one left to be dlc

 

[Undella2]

Are any of the GS spirits 3 star, or are they all 2 star or lower?

 

[NessAtc.]

man waddles and elma too? at this point there's no one left to be dlc

and that's why spirits most likely don't disconfirm characters

 

[Arcadenik]

Don't know if you all heard, but Elma and Detective Pikachu have been confirmed as Spirits.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9zfv09/detective_pikachu_and_elma_are_confirmed_spirits/

Imagine if they had a Detective Pikachu alt and when you use it, Ryan Renolds is speaking for Pikachu. That would be hilarious!

Smash 6 definitely needs to have a Detective Pikachu alt for Pikachu.

And a playable Meowth too. I am not letting this go.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Here's Jenna.
I'm a bit more disappointed that we've still not gotten Isaac yet now, because otherwise we could have formed a GS party with the spirits. Oh well, we've still got plenty of time

Watch Isaac be the odd man out without a spirit...

That would be both fascinating, and at the same time, the most thought provoking thing imaginable.

 

[Deleted member]

Are any of the GS spirits 3 star, or are they all 2 star or lower?

Isaac would probably be the only 3 star Spirit from the Golden Sun universe. Most of the characters would be 2 star (Advanced), with the Djinn being 1 star (Novice).

EDIT: RICKY!!! He was my favorite partner from the Oracle games. I made sure to get him in Ages, because Moosh was the default partner in that game and I absolutely HATED his segments.

 

[ZelDan]

Isaac would probably be the only 3 star Spirit from the Golden Sun universe. Most of the characters would be 2 star (Advanced), with the Djinn being 1 star (Novice).

EDIT: RICKY!!! He was my favorite partner from the Oracle games. I made sure to get him in Ages, because Moosh was the default partner in that game and I absolutely HATED his segments.

Yeah, Moosh's flying could be a bit awkward if I remember correctly.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Here's the video where Jenna's spirit was spotted in case anyone is wondering

 

[Silo777]

Watch Isaac be the odd man out without a spirit...

That would be both fascinating, and at the same time, the most thought provoking thing imaginable.

Isaac seems to consistently be the odd man out in multiple ways, and if he turns out to really not have a spirit too, it’s going to really start getting suspicious.

 

[TappyBat]

then it all ends up leading to nothing. cause sakurai >.>

 

[osby]

I think people are just reading too much into little things.

 

[NessAtc.]

I think people are just reading too much into little things.

alright, appreciate the input

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I think people are just reading too much into little things.

That's basically all that's been happening since Ultimate has been announced though.

It's telling to the point where the many teases and hints toward Isaac in the first place were very likely (IMO) people reading too much into little things.

 

[TappyBat]

"the little things" get people talking about your character. remember ridley and the shadow in 4? was it dumb? yeah kinda but look who got in!

 

[SonicLink125]

I think people are just reading too much into little things.

Maybe so, but it keeps things interesting. Who knows? Personally, I'm 99% certain it most likely means nothing, but it could also lead into something. As long as it keeps Golden Sun/Isaac in discussions/speculations, I'm game for it.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Just as a reminder, if you want to keep Golden Sun relevant in other people minds, you must talk about it elsewhere than in this thread.

I recently jumped on a conversation between two people arguing on "dead franchises" on Twitter, following a Nintendo of America tweet, to talk about Golden Sun.

There's a thread on /r/nintendo asking about "magic users" in Nintendo franchises, where I spread the love for Isaac.

Keep talking and upvoting GS contents on mainstream social media.

Edit: and avoid that kind of comment with no argument

 

[Arcadenik]

"the little things" get people talking about your character. remember ridley and the shadow in 4? was it dumb? yeah kinda but look who got in!

Ridley still didn’t get in Smash 4.

Just as a reminder, if you want to keep Golden Sun relevant in other people minds, you must talk about it elsewhere than in this thread.

I recently jumped on a conversation between two people arguing on "dead franchises" on Twitter, following a Nintendo of America tweet, to talk about Golden Sun.

There's a thread on /r/nintendo asking about "magic users" in Nintendo franchises, where I spread the love for Isaac.

Keep talking and upvoting GS contents on mainstream social media.

Edit: and avoid that kind of comment with no argument

Oh, I try to do that too but for Meowth and Toad and Dixie Kong. I should do that more often.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Just as a reminder, if you want to keep Golden Sun relevant in other people minds, you must talk about it elsewhere than in this thread.

I recently jumped on a conversation between two people arguing on "dead franchises" on Twitter, following a Nintendo of America tweet, to talk about Golden Sun.

There's a thread on /r/nintendo asking about "magic users" in Nintendo franchises, where I spread the love for Isaac.

Keep talking and upvoting GS contents on mainstream social media.

Edit: and avoid that kind of comment with no argument

Yep that's true, becoming more vocal as a community is a good strategy going forward generating more demand and discussion for Golden Sun

Ridley still didn’t get in Smash 4.



Oh, I try to do that too but for Meowth and Toad and Dixie Kong. I should do that more often.

Ridley getting in 4 wasn't his point but generating discussion with these kind of 'hints' gets more people talking about the character and it gives exposure to them. The Rathalos Tweet, the trademark and the item although didn't lead to Isaac's Smash inclusion like we hoped it did however make Isaac a major talking point regarding potential newcomers which alongside his decade long popularity and demand made him one of the top contenders amongst the community for Ultimate. Ensuring a character/franchise has consistent popularity and ensuring the character is a major discussion point helps them in the long term. The titans K.Rool and Ridley suffered humilating defeats (Mii Costume and Stage Boss) before they eventually got their time to shine with this game. We suffered a comparable humiliating defeat with getting an AT again, we just need to maintain the support for Golden Sun and Isaac until we succeed no matter how long it takes.

 

[Icana]

I can't help but feel Sakurai is talking about us/Golden Sun/Isaac in his latest interview with some of these choice quotes:

“There will be people who might feel disappointed if fighters that appeared in a previous title are not included. I didn’t want any players to feel that way, so we worked really hard to make this happen.

But what I learned is that regardless of doing our utmost, no matter how hard we try, and no matter how many fighters we include, there will always be people who feel that way.”

The "feeling" he's referring to is disappointment, I think. Naturally, we're disappointed our highly requested character, whom had a previous appearance in Brawl, had completely disappeared from Smash 4, leading to playable speculation for Smash 4 DLC, leading to the ballot, and then ending with Ultimate... reviving his Brawl AT (granted, with an updated design and move set).

“We do things like base our consideration on the results of the Smash ballot, and also balance things out so that there’s a difference in the types of fighters.

By the way, as for Incineroar, during our planning stage we knew that a new Pokémon game was coming, so we intentionally kept one spot open for that, and we decided which character to create once we received more info on the title.”

The word "spot" was used here. Kinda implies the idea of limited 'slots' for characters are indeed a thing behind the scenes.

On surprising fans and including Piranha Plant:

“I’m actually not paying too much focus on the surprise element when we introduce a new fighter. The surprise element quickly fades once the announcement has been made.

Rather, I believe it’s important to have a good balance as a game. In the past titles in the series, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt Dog were some of the examples we offered outside of people’s typical expectations. However, if we don’t have these types of fighters, and we only had typical “hero/heroine” type fighters in the lineup, there’s not much difference. It’s probably not very interesting. Correct?

Also, unlike some main characters from some (not widely known) franchises, Piranha Plant is a character everyone knows well.”

Unfortunately, I feel he may be eluding to Isaac here. He would fit the typical hero/heroine slot that he filled with Simon/Richter/Inkling and is from a franchise that isn't well known today.

That and I'm sure director bias plays a role too, since I've no doubt Rex would've been playable if XB 2 was released back in 2015 or earlier. That was kinda implied during the Mii costume segment of the last Smash direct. Rex would fit the bolded remarks as well, the difference being that Xenoblade is active and more relevant today than Golden Sun that's been out of the spotlight for many years now (but was once just as popular as the latest Xeno entry).

Source: https://www.gameinformer.com/interv...lant-spirits-and-20-years-of-super-smash-bros

Anyway, all this feeds into the thought that the only way Isaac/Golden Sun is getting a playable rep in Smash is for a new Golden Sun game to come out and for it's sales to perform in a way that is simply too big to ignore. Golden Sun may have been shy of 2 million units shipped world-wide years ago, but games like Splatoon are phenomenons, with the latest entry having shipped over 7 million units and still selling game copies and Switch systems today. No way Inkling is getting ignored. Also, have we seen Agent 8/Octolings as spirits yet? I think they're a contender for Smash Ultimate DLC as well, especially if Nintendo is deciding these last five fighters. They were just released with the Octo-expansion a couple months ago, and they will no doubt be mainstays to the series moving forward.

 

[Q-Long]

What have people been discussing after Golden Sunday?

 

[WaddleMatt]

What have people been discussing after Golden Sunday?

Mainly weird bits of 'evidence' and theories which could support Isaac being in Smash or at least planned.