Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Kalaam]

K.Rool is a spirit...

So is Fox (well, James McCloud), Samus, etc.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Have we seen an playable fighters with spirits?

Meta Ridley has a spirt. I've seen some on discord suggest that's the way you actually get to play as the meta ridley skin. K rool is too.

 

[Amtoj]

Nintendo probably has higher quality images of the Assist Trophies laying around. Maybe it might be worth asking for them like Source Gaming did with all those costumes. They even got access to a few bonuses. Anyway, this is Isaac's render.

Isaac might not be playable, but he looks better than ever. Besides, this would be a good image to use in future campaigns to get him on the roster.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

i think male wii fit trainer was a spirit too; someone said that.

I highly doubt spirit = can't be playable. Highly. Doubt.

 

[Xenigma]

Forgive me as I dream a bit: what if Isaac being revealed as an AT now was done intentionally as a method of gauging DLC potential? Unlike some characters that have been relegated to AT, Isaac could be relatively easily replaced with Felix or Matthew and have no real change in functionality. The big question is if Isaac has the broad appeal to sell DLC, and by adding him back in as an AT, Nintendo can look at the fan reaction and see if that appeal exists. If they like what they see, they could potentially swap him in as one of the five Fighters Pass inclusions or, if those five are truly set in stone, put him on the short list for a potential season two. If they don't see the numbers needed, they just leave things as-is and no one is ever the wiser. It's a long shot, I admit, but in an era of patches and DLC I have to believe Nintendo is willing to think outside the box, especially when it comes to content they may otherwise consider risky.

 

[Q-Long]

With Piranha Plant and Incineroar, I realize they really wanted more villains for this game.

Confusing how Shadow was cut then tho. I would mention someone else that has the word Shadow in their name but we all knew that wasn't going to happen.

 

[ZelDan]

You'd think it'd reinforce the credibility of the insiders who were correct... but it won't.

I wasn't thinking about the insiders so much as the leaks themselves. I could see the Grinch leak being on the minds of Smash fans whenever another credible-looking "leak" pops up, or atleast be in the backs of the minds of particular Smash fans

Smash fan: "Hey! This leak looks pretty credible, I think this bodes well for the character I like!"

Golden Sun fan: "Ha, that's funny..."

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Sadly the only way people tend to be benevolent to reputable leakers is if the leakers a) leak things people want to hear and b) are 100% correct about them. It's a small window, which is why they're so vague. And that in turn gets chalked up to them "guessing".

Mystic is lucky people somewhat came around on him, because he seems like a nice guy who didn't know what he was getting into, but had he not been so personally candid, a trait rare among insiders (for obvious reasons), I doubt the backlash would've mitigated to the extent it did.

I wouldn't be angry if they were predicted characters I disliked if they weren't so high and mighty about it, and came across as fans rather than elitist know it alls. Have you EVER seen a insider be like "Oh I wouldn't wanna see this guy" or even in general campaign for a character? They are more concerned being "right' than having a conversation.

 

[KoopaSaki]

Forgive me as I dream a bit: what if Isaac being revealed as an AT now was done intentionally as a method of gauging DLC potential? Unlike some characters that have been relegated to AT, Isaac could be relatively easily replaced with Felix or Matthew and have no real change in functionality. The big question is if Isaac has the broad appeal to sell DLC, and by adding him back in as an AT, Nintendo can look at the fan reaction and see if that appeal exists. If they like what they see, they could potentially swap him in as one of the five Fighters Pass inclusions or, if those five are truly set in stone, put him on the short list for a potential season two. If they don't see the numbers needed, they just leave things as-is and no one is ever the wiser. It's a long shot, I admit, but in an era of patches and DLC I have to believe Nintendo is willing to think outside the box, especially when it comes to content they may otherwise consider risky.

My claim from here is that we need a plan of attack. I think our best bet is to rally for golden sun 4 as that could make the franchise relevant again and could lead to Isaac or that games main protagonist making it in.

 

[NNN]

Forgive me as I dream a bit: what if Isaac being revealed as an AT now was done intentionally as a method of gauging DLC potential? Unlike some characters that have been relegated to AT, Isaac could be relatively easily replaced with Felix or Matthew and have no real change in functionality. The big question is if Isaac has the broad appeal to sell DLC, and by adding him back in as an AT, Nintendo can look at the fan reaction and see if that appeal exists. If they like what they see, they could potentially swap him in as one of the five Fighters Pass inclusions or, if those five are truly set in stone, put him on the short list for a potential season two. If they don't see the numbers needed, they just leave things as-is and no one is ever the wiser. It's a long shot, I admit, but in an era of patches and DLC I have to believe Nintendo is willing to think outside the box, especially when it comes to content they may otherwise consider risky.

I just hope Nintendo has taken note of how happy fans were when the grinch leak emerged if they order a second season of DLC. For now I'll keep my expectations low.

 

[N3ON]

With Spirits being the parallel to trophies/stickers I don't see why they couldn't be playable. That said, there aren't any Spirits I think actually stand a good shot at playability. Maybe Geno, but that'd be about it.

I wasn't thinking about the insiders so much as the leaks themselves. I could see the Grinch leak being on the minds of Smash fans whenever another credible-looking "leak" pops up, or atleast be in the backs of the minds of particular Smash fans

Smash fan: "Hey! This leak looks pretty credible, I think this bodes well for the character I like!"

Golden Sun fan: "Ha, that's funny..."

You'd think we'd learn from this, and overall I do think we're more cynical towards leaks than we used to be... but frankly if the Rayman leak didn't teach us, this probably won't be the nail in the coffin either. But I can't even be mad at those cases, each required substantial work and talent.

Not to mention that the Ken leak was real, so that'll be sustenance enough for some.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

My claim from here is that we need a plan of attack. I think our best bet is to rally for golden sun 4 as that could make the franchise relevant again and could lead to Isaac or that games main protagonist making it in.

We can try, but I doubt Sakurai will be able to find anyway to give any Golden Sun character a moveset. He just lacks the foresight to do so or just flat out doesn't like the series.

We are better off just pushing for Golden Sun 4 since chances are Isaac won't be getting in with Sakurai still directing the series.

 

[Jasper the Tourist]

Hey folks, just want to say that I think that out of all the fanbases, you got screwed the most. I wanted him in, too. Honestly, what really made it a slap in the face was the reveal of the Plant. I have no idea what they were thinking.

That said, I’m starting to wonder if Camelot does not actually want to bring too much attention to Golden Sun because they just don’t want to revive the series or make another game. I mean, it’s a possibility.

 

[Skyblade12]

Apparently we’re not aggressive enough. Threatening Sakurai is apparently what it takes to get Nintendo to notice a fan base. We should have listened to the Waluigi fans.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Apparently we’re not aggressive enough. Threatening Sakurai is apparently what it takes to get Nintendo to notice a fan base. We should have listened to the Waluigi fans.

Now I won't go as far to say that, but constantly badgering him about Isaac like the Ridley fans did would help.

Our best bet would be for Sakurai to not be a director since he was not able to piece together anything after 3 games for Isaac.

 

[ZelDan]

With Spirits being the parallel to trophies/stickers I don't see why they couldn't be playable. That said, there aren't any Spirits I think actually stand a good shot at playability. Maybe Geno, but that'd be about it.


You'd think we'd learn from this, and overall I do think we're more cynical towards leaks than we used to be... but frankly if the Rayman leak didn't teach us, this probably won't be the nail in the coffin either. But I can't even be mad at those cases, each required substantial work and talent.

Not to mention that the Ken leak was real, so that'll be sustenance enough for some.

I mean, I'm not exactly ashamed for believing in the Grinch leak when it was pretty convincing, some questionable stuff with the mural itself aside. I'm pretty sure the Grinch leak is the best fake leak Smash has had.

 

[TempestSurge]

My claim from here is that we need a plan of attack. I think our best bet is to rally for golden sun 4 as that could make the franchise relevant again and could lead to Isaac or that games main protagonist making it in.

This is going to sound silly, but imagine it working in this way. We rally and manage to get Golden Sun 4. It's an rpg, Sakurai's favorite genre. He plays it and soon develops a bias for it like he got with Fire Emblem and Xenoblade and that translates to Isaac on the roster. With that said I still worry over Sakurai making Isaac stick to the gigantic move/lift etc. psynergies to rep his trophy. As odd as it sounds, makes me feel like Isaac's just too out there for Sakurai's tastes.

 

[Q-Long]

Apparently we’re not aggressive enough. Threatening Sakurai is apparently what it takes to get Nintendo to notice a fan base. We should have listened to the Waluigi fans.

context?

 

[Skyblade12]

context?

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...nt_waluigi_in_smash_bros_ultimate_says_reggie

 

[?!?!?!]

I honestly wouldn't be too pissed about this if we didn't have the rathalos tweet and other hints/coincidences, or if Isaac was deconfirmed in august. I love and respect sakurai for pretty much everything he does, but it really just felt like he was toying with the fan base.

That, and our chances for a golden sun revival have drastically dropped..

 

[Weeman]

Harassing the developers is never an answer. At the end of the day this is about having a character playable in a smash game, not some political upheaval.
A ballot is really the only thing to hope for at this point.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvuMr9uDZM

m o o d

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

If they'll add Waluigi over whining; They can add Isaac

 

[Malkior7]

Well he at least looks great and has some new moves instead of just Push. Even if he is an assist trophy I'll take that over not being in the game at all any day.

 

[N3ON]

I just wish we could get some bigger official art.

Eventually the model will be ripped... but I don't wanna wait that long lol.

 

[Q-Long]

Harada: Yo I put a Walking Dead character in Tekken
Junya: I put 3 Gokus!
Sakurai: hold my sake

I do feel like, for the past couple of yrs character trailers have become some what of a contest. Smash 4 definitely popularized character trailers. Its pretty cool to see Geralt in Soul Calibur and stuff, but I guess Pirahna Plant was the only way they could have topped Duck Hunt, Cloud, or Bayonetta.

I wonder what the interview is going to be like and how they came to the decision. They must have knew there would be some negative responses. Corrin, Lucina, Palutena, Dark Pit, Mii, Cloud, and Bayonetta, a lot of fighters in the previous game had mixed reactions .

 

[Ninetales Commander]

Hey folks, just want to say that I think that out of all the fanbases, you got screwed the most. I wanted him in, too. Honestly, what really made it a slap in the face was the reveal of the Plant. I have no idea what they were thinking.

That said, I’m starting to wonder if Camelot does not actually want to bring too much attention to Golden Sun because they just don’t want to revive the series or make another game. I mean, it’s a possibility.

You know man, you may actually be right with that, Camelot has said in the past that whether or not they make a game depends on how much "Fan Demand" there is but considering we've been demanding Golden Sun 4 for years and nothing has come from it, I'm honestly starting to think they are just saying that as an excuse and hope eventually we will stop asking. Adding Isaac to Smash Bros Ultimate as a playable character would really fuel the flame for demand of a Golden Sun 4 so maybe they only gave permission to use Isaac as an assist trophy.
If that is true, Camelot have done their fans a great disservice.

 

[Weeman]

If they'll add Waluigi over whining; They can add Isaac

Well they won't add Waluigi over whining.

 

[N3ON]

Harada: Yo I put a Walking Dead character in Tekken
Junya: I put 3 Gokus!
Sakurai: hold my sake

I do feel like, for the past couple of yrs character trailers have become some what of a contest. Smash 4 definitely popularized character trailers. Its pretty cool to see Geralt in Soul Calibur and stuff, but I guess Pirahna Plant was the only way they could have topped Duck Hunt, Cloud, or Bayonetta.

I wonder what the interview is going to be like and how they came to the decision. They must have knew there would be some negative responses. Corrin, Lucina, Palutena, Dark Pit, Mii, Cloud, and Bayonetta, a lot of fighters in the previous game had mixed reactions .

...Palutena was cool until the game released and it turned out her default moveset was the worst thing ever created by anyone in the history of ever.

 

[Sentinel07]

I honestly wouldn't be too pissed about this if we didn't have the rathalos tweet and other hints/coincidences, or if Isaac was deconfirmed in august. I love and respect sakurai for pretty much everything he does, but it really just felt like he was toying with the fan base.

That's the big thing for me. They should have listed on the Smash website all the returning Assist Trophies following the August Direct. That way we would at least know if any old Assist Trophies have a chance.

I have to extend my condolences to Team Shadow and Team Skull Kid as well, as they got strung along about as bad as we did. Sakurai really must not like Zelda for all the good characters he's relegated to Assist Trophies.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Do we know anyone who has contact with Nintendo? We need to get this information to them directly and they need to answer us. Maybe we can get the guy's at Game Explain to do somthing useful. We all know how buddy buddy they are with Nintendo due to these last few weeks.

 

[TempestSurge]

Welp I just realized my Squad Strike team was planned to be Ike, Lucas, Ridley, Simon, and you guessed it Isaac! Guess I could swap for Inklings or King K. Rool but dang was I confident that Isaac was in.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Well they won't add Waluigi over whining.

Except for how Reggie clearly said Sakurai was taking the Waluigi fan's cry's into consideration.

 

[FalconFire93]

I honestly felt so bad that Isaac didn’t make it. I felt for every single one of you, you guys have every right to be upset, having him as an AT in Brawl, missing in 3DS/Wii U, only to come back as an AT over 10 years later just stings. Sending support your way.

 

[TappyBat]

You know man, you may actually be right with that, Camelot has said in the past that whether or not they make a game depends on how much "Fan Demand" there is but considering we've been demanding Golden Sun 4 for years and nothing has come from it, I'm honestly starting to think they are just saying that as an excuse and hope eventually we will stop asking. Adding Isaac to Smash Bros Ultimate as a playable character would really fuel the flame for demand of a Golden Sun 4 so maybe they only gave permission to use Isaac as an assist trophy.
If that is true, Camelot have done their fans a great disservice.

Golden Sun 4 will never happen

 

[Famikom]

so, we got AT'd again huh?

you know what? I'm sad, but it's okay.

I was hoping and praying for playable status, and I hadn't prepared myself very well for the possibility that Isaac would just be brought back as an assist. but despite all that? I've come to my own conclusion that this is okay. We went from nothing in Sm4sh to something in Ultimate, and to me, that's a victory. it's a very small one, yes, but a victory nonetheless!

we as Isaac fans are used to getting shafted despite how passionate we are about him and his franchise, but no matter how hard it might be to go on, that doesn't mean we should just give up entirely! there may be no precedent for assists getting promoted to playable in a single game, but i want to remind you that history isn't history, until it is. there's a first time for everything, you know? perhaps i'm being dangerously optimistic here, but personally, I'm not gonna stop campaigning for Isaac until DLC is over. there's no reason to in my opinion. i don't want us to collectively give up on him and drag him down with us.

I'm not going to let this unfortunate outcome ruin the game for me. the mere existence of characters like Ridley and K. Rool in base are proof enough to me that Sakurai is trying his best to listen to the fans. he and the entire smash team have come together to make a good game-- a great one even, and just because my most wanted character isn't playable, and the final reveals were kind of anticlimactic (except World of Light, that looks like it'll be a blast!) I want to continue to support the game so that one day Isaac's growing support base might have just one more chance to be heard.

P.S: it's super cool that Isaac's AT's abilities have been expanded to include Pound and Lift (there might be more? those were just the ones that I noticed). I didn't expect him mechanically to be any different than he was in Brawl if he were to return as an assist, so I'm actually really pleasantly surprised! I did however expect him to get a significant graphical rehaul and... uh? he's definitely seen better days. sad to see little has changed about him cosmetically (his face still weirds me out... a bit vacant and too angry looking, haha... earlier I actually played around with his face in photoshop and basically ended up creating an entirely new one )

 

[Q-Long]

Golden Sun 4 will never happen

yeah feels like this was our last chance.

Though Shenmue 1 and 2 combined sold less the first Golden Sun according to VGChartz and its getting a sequel. Shenmue's last game was released in 2001.

Of course this is Nintendo. They don't really revive their small franchises. Only example I can think of is Punch-Out Wii.

 

[Xenigma]

I just hope Nintendo has taken note of how happy fans were when the grinch leak emerged if they order a second season of DLC. For now I'll keep my expectations low.

This is my biggest hope for the aftermath of Grinch Leak (aside from hearing how in the world it happened in the first place). There was clearly a lot of enthusiasm for that specific list of newcomers, and I think Nintendo would do well to take note of that enthusiasm and, if nothing else, considering shortlisting some of those characters for potential future DLC if they aren't already in the Fighters Pass lineup.

 

[Q-Long]

This is my biggest hope for the aftermath of Grinch Leak (aside from hearing how in the world it happened in the first place). There was clearly a lot of enthusiasm for that specific list of newcomers, and I think Nintendo would do well to take note of that enthusiasm and, if nothing else, considering shortlisting some of those characters for potential future DLC if they aren't already in the Fighters Pass lineup.

I wonder if this is the Grinch Leak's purpose. Like that leak that caused Dark Dawn.

Without the Grinch Leak today would have stung less.

 

[N3ON]

GS4? Probably not in the cards. GS1+2 remake? That's possible. It's lower risk for Nintendo, and as opposed to a full sequel, I have confidence Camelot could probably do a remake without messing it up.