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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

VexTheHex

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Messages
567
While I was 100% elated and happy to see Incineroar show up and look incredible as I had hoped and thought he could be... I was saddened the second he announced that was it for newcomers as my thoughts had already began to shift to Isaac, Shadow, Geno, and Banjo's fates. Isaac has a lot of potential with his earth powers and elemental ties in general, I'm still willing to hope he has some sort of chance or at the very least maybe Golden Sun's status may improve with a new installment with Isaac making a return.
 

Confirmation

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
648
Isaac's the only character to break through a missed AT appearance to make it to the next gare bar bar Gray Fox, which was clearly due to licensing. Pretty surprising.
 

Pyzlnar

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
120
Location
In front of a Monitor
I mean.

*sigh

There are definitely postives out of this.
I just don't feel like looking at them and being woopie do Isaac will have a better bet in another ~6 years for the next Smash to come... in a probably not as amazing console as the switch... in a probably not as complete roster as this.

Isaac definitely got a lot of popularity and voice on this don't get me wrong... but right now the wait will hurts.
It's been so long. So so soooo long.
And we'll have to wait A LOT.

:(

I hope at least Banjo, Geno or Lloyd bros get their character, they still got a shot.
 

Yellowlord

ゆゆネーター
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
3,635
Location
Who knows? :3
And one also heavily rooted in commercial appeal. Compromises have to be made with a game representing as many video games as this one.
As much as it pains me to say it, Golden Sun is ultimately a very small franchise that never really took off in popularity, and while that isn't a completely determining factor for characters not getting in, it will always be a relevant point.
It's not good to take it personal, Nintendo is a company after all, and Sakurai has to make compromises to at least try and represent everyone, which is why having his assist trophy updated like this isn't an insult, but a way for the developers to show they know we want these characters.
I mean i doubt the man loves Pokémon that much to think we need more, but a good relationship with GameFreak is a huge thing for Nintendo.
I'm not sure entirely sure why, but the facts and points you made in this post helped calm me down a bit, to be quite honest. And this is coming from someone who would of been extremely happy to be able to play Isaac on a daily basis.


It's a shame, but... at this point, it's either we wait until the next game or hope we get lucky during the DLC cycle if at all.
 

spoilerowl

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
328
Honestly, I was afraid to even look at this thread after I saw the Isaac AT. You guys are handling it pretty well considering.

To offer a different perspective, Sakurai cared enough about the character to bring him back into the series after being cut; that's an honor I don't think any other AT received, besides Gray Fox for legal reasons. It might seem a bit hollow now since it's not a playable role, but that's still a win, and could eventually pay off in the long run. Whether it's in the next game or somehow in this one as surprise DLC. Either way, my condolences for all you supporters of Isaac in Ultimate, everything seemed to be pointing his way and you guys deserved much better.
 
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KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
Well, now that the initial shock has passed, I've started the task of moving forward. I took a brief nap, which helped immensely given I didn't get any sleep last night. I've started reconsidering the reveals in their intended context instead of compared to the dream scenario that was the Grinch Leak. I've given some serious thought as to what the next best steps are for Isaac fans, for Smash fans, and for myself. To be honest, I'm already feeling much better than I did a few short hours ago.

<Rant incoming!>

So Isaac is an assist trophy, and therefore not to be playable at least through the beginning of 2020. It's not what we wanted, but we all knew it was a possibility. Instead of dwelling on that negative, here's some positives to focus on:

- We got Isaac back into Smash, and in an upgraded form too. Considering he was a complete no-show in SSB4, that's a significant bone being thrown by the development team and a sign that our ballot votes did matter. Further, judging by Matthew there will be Golden Sun spirits, so we've got a little to look forward to on that front as well.

- The Ultimate roster is still ridiculous. It's easy to take it for granted at this point, but remember that we have literally every veteran fighter on the roster, plus two huge fan choices in Ridley and K. Rool, the immensely popular Inklings and Isabelle, a number of new clones, and even a couple of Castlevania characters! It may be the weakest entry now in terms of new fighters, but I don't think there's any contesting that this is the best roster we've ever had, and possibly ever will have.

- DLC is still a thing. Okay, so Isaac is virtually guaranteed to not be a part of the first year of DLC. We're still getting five more brand-new fighters via DLC, and, while I know the choice of Piranha Plant stings, at least it's a freebie on top of those other five. Further, while it's obviously too early to say for sure, there's the possibility that we could see another season of DLC after that, and it's entirely possible such an extension could include fighters that were passed over like the ATs.

Finally, if there's one thing I've learned for sure this reveal season, it's that our voices do matter. There's no way Ridley or K. Rool would be playable if their fanbases hadn't been loud and proud for years leading up to Ultimate, and it's entirely possible Isaac would have still been a no show. Instead of accepting defeat and shying away from the game, we need Isaac fans to buckle in and get ready for the long haul. Here's some simple things we can do now:

- Buy the game and the Fighters Pass. If you don't want the game now, so be it, but if we want a chance at more DLC beyond what we've heard of, we have to make Ultimate a massive success, enough that Nintendo will want to milk this cow as long as they can. Money talks!

- Support your content creators. People like Billybae10K Billybae10K and StoicSeraph StoicSeraph have already been doing great work, and we need to do our part to share that content and even create more if you are so inclined. This is especially important for Isaac because we need to have tangible proof for Nintendo that there is a lot of passion out there for Golden Sun they can potentially profit off of, and again, money talks!

- Consider thanking Nintendo and Sakurai. This is the hardest one, especially right now, but I think we should all seriously consider it. We've gone from Golden Sun being cut from Smash for all intents and purposes to again having a notable presence. Take this at face value: Sakurai and company brought back Isaac in response to fan demand. Just because it isn't exactly what we wanted doesn't mean we didn't get anything, and now is a great time to say that we appreciate the gesture and to also remind them that there is still a lot of demand out there for more.

- Never, ever give up. Ridley fans didn't get him in the game by admitting he was too big. K. Rool fans didn't get him in the game by admitting he wasn't relevant. They got their characters because they persisted, even when the rest of the world told them they shouldn't. Same goes for Geno and Banjo: obviously neither is confirmed yet (and Geno is arguably deconfirmed by his spirit), but I think both remain very strong possibilities for those five DLC character slots because they too have had passionate fanbases over the years. Now we stand strong as the largest fanbase for a currently non-playable character on Smashboards, and have a lot of momentum across the greater Smash community to boot. Instead of letting that wither on the vine, we should do what we can to preserve that spirit and ensure our voices continue to be heard. We didn't give up after Brawl, and we didn't give up after SSB4, so why should we give up now? If anything, we should work to become that next success story.

It's going to be difficult to stay focused, to be sure. Realistically, we're looking at SSB6 for our next real chance at playability, and that's a difficult thought when we've already struck out three times. If we are willing to start now, though, maybe we can actually prevail. Otherwise, well, I guess Golden Sun will just stay dead, and I'm not ready to accept that fate.
Made a post in the General Thread which I'll quote here.
I know what must happen now.

Waluigi fans and Isaac fans must band together.

We shall henceforth be known as the Camelot Kids.

Ridley and K. Rool fans are welcome to back us up.
(This is mostly a joke, don't take me seriously... unless we want the Waluigi and Isaac fans to band together)
Here's to StoicSeraph StoicSeraph and Billybae10K Billybae10K for fighting the good fight.
 
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SonicLink125

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
1,439
NNID
SonicLink
Well, now that the initial shock has passed, I've started the task of moving forward. I took a brief nap, which helped immensely given I didn't get any sleep last night. I've started reconsidering the reveals in their intended context instead of compared to the dream scenario that was the Grinch Leak. I've given some serious thought as to what the next best steps are for Isaac fans, for Smash fans, and for myself. To be honest, I'm already feeling much better than I did a few short hours ago.

<Rant incoming!>

So Isaac is an assist trophy, and therefore not to be playable at least through the beginning of 2020. It's not what we wanted, but we all knew it was a possibility. Instead of dwelling on that negative, here's some positives to focus on:

- We got Isaac back into Smash, and in an upgraded form too. Considering he was a complete no-show in SSB4, that's a significant bone being thrown by the development team and a sign that our ballot votes did matter. Further, judging by Matthew there will be Golden Sun spirits, so we've got a little to look forward to on that front as well.

- The Ultimate roster is still ridiculous. It's easy to take it for granted at this point, but remember that we have literally every veteran fighter on the roster, plus two huge fan choices in Ridley and K. Rool, the immensely popular Inklings and Isabelle, a number of new clones, and even a couple of Castlevania characters! It may be the weakest entry now in terms of new fighters, but I don't think there's any contesting that this is the best roster we've ever had, and possibly ever will have.

- DLC is still a thing. Okay, so Isaac is virtually guaranteed to not be a part of the first year of DLC. We're still getting five more brand-new fighters via DLC, and, while I know the choice of Piranha Plant stings, at least it's a freebie on top of those other five. Further, while it's obviously too early to say for sure, there's the possibility that we could see another season of DLC after that, and it's entirely possible such an extension could include fighters that were passed over like the ATs.

Finally, if there's one thing I've learned for sure this reveal season, it's that our voices do matter. There's no way Ridley or K. Rool would be playable if their fanbases hadn't been loud and proud for years leading up to Ultimate, and it's entirely possible Isaac would have still been a no show. Instead of accepting defeat and shying away from the game, we need Isaac fans to buckle in and get ready for the long haul. Here's some simple things we can do now:

- Buy the game and the Fighters Pass. If you don't want the game now, so be it, but if we want a chance at more DLC beyond what we've heard of, we have to make Ultimate a massive success, enough that Nintendo will want to milk this cow as long as they can. Money talks!

- Support your content creators. People like Billybae10K Billybae10K and StoicSeraph StoicSeraph have already been doing great work, and we need to do our part to share that content and even create more if you are so inclined. This is especially important for Isaac because we need to have tangible proof for Nintendo that there is a lot of passion out there for Golden Sun they can potentially profit off of, and again, money talks!

- Consider thanking Nintendo and Sakurai. This is the hardest one, especially right now, but I think we should all seriously consider it. We've gone from Golden Sun being cut from Smash for all intents and purposes to again having a notable presence. Take this at face value: Sakurai and company brought back Isaac in response to fan demand. Just because it isn't exactly what we wanted doesn't mean we didn't get anything, and now is a great time to say that we appreciate the gesture and to also remind them that there is still a lot of demand out there for more.

- Never, ever give up. Ridley fans didn't get him in the game by admitting he was too big. K. Rool fans didn't get him in the game by admitting he wasn't relevant. They got their characters because they persisted, even when the rest of the world told them they shouldn't. Same goes for Geno and Banjo: obviously neither is confirmed yet (and Geno is arguably deconfirmed by his spirit), but I think both remain very strong possibilities for those five DLC character slots because they too have had passionate fanbases over the years. Now we stand strong as the largest fanbase for a currently non-playable character on Smashboards, and have a lot of momentum across the greater Smash community to boot. Instead of letting that wither on the vine, we should do what we can to preserve that spirit and ensure our voices continue to be heard. We didn't give up after Brawl, and we didn't give up after SSB4, so why should we give up now? If anything, we should work to become that next success story.

It's going to be difficult to stay focused, to be sure. Realistically, we're looking at SSB6 for our next real chance at playability, and that's a difficult thought when we've already struck out three times. If we are willing to start now, though, maybe we can actually prevail. Otherwise, well, I guess Golden Sun will just stay dead, and I'm not ready to accept that fate.
Well said, Adept! This is only the beginning! We got Isaac back in and there will be a ton new people that will play this game. And when Isaac appears, they'll wonder who he is and what's he all about and find a very passionate fan base, a great game series and would want to vote for him to be playable. While DLC season 1 won't be our best bet, don't give up. Remember when Reggie said to us that they heard us on the Waluigi back lash? There is a slight glimmer of a chance that Waluigi COULD be the 5th DLC fighter. Sounds very unlikely and crazy, but if it happens, well, we'll know what to do.

We've come too far to back down now. Ridley, K. Rool, etc. fans want us to join the battle with them along with many others. Let's prove to them what we're capable of.
 

OptimisticStrifer

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
2,403
I'm not sure entirely sure why, but the facts and points you made in this post helped calm me down a bit, to be quite honest. And this is coming from someone who would of been extremely happy to be able to play Isaac on a daily basis.

It's a shame, but... at this point, it's either we wait until the next game or hope we get lucky during the DLC cycle if at all.
I don't want "next game' though. Cause 'next game' won't have every single fighter in smash history. It wouldn't be the same. Isaac is left out of ULTIMATE.
 
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Yellowlord

ゆゆネーター
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
3,635
Location
Who knows? :3
I don't want "next game' though. Cause 'next game' won't have every single fighter in smash history. It wouldn't be the same. Isaac is left out of ULTIMATE.
I get how you feel, but... at this point, I'm not sure we can really get to Sakurai at this point to help him understand that we do want to see Isaac as playable instead of non-playable.
 

KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
Honestly, I was afraid to even look at this thread after I saw the Isaac AT. You guys are handling it pretty well considering.

To offer a different perspective, Sakurai cared enough about the character to bring him back into the series after being cut; that's an honor I don't think any other AT received, besides Gray Fox for legal reasons. It might seem a bit hollow now since it's not a playable role, but that's still a win, and could eventually pay off in the long run. Whether it's in the next game or somehow in this one as surprise DLC. Either way, my condolences for all you supporters of Isaac in Ultimate, everything seemed to be pointing his way and you guys deserved much better.
I mean...
Look at this, this is wonderful. He looks great.

And, like I said a few hours ago in the General Thread even if we don't get Isaac as DLC or something, at least the modders have a good model to work with.
 
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OptimisticStrifer

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
2,403
I get how you feel, but... at this point, I'm not sure we can really get to Sakurai at this point to help him understand that we do want to see Isaac as playable instead of non-playable.
If being loud and obnoxious got Reggie to acknowledge the Waluigi fans... then I'm wondering if that's what it takes for Isaac to get noticed too, honestly.
 

TheSpaceKing12

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
434
Location
The moon
NNID
IsaacForSSB4
3DS FC
2105-8706-4581
Remember though, it seems like DLC for this game was planned from the get-go rather then after the game finishes. Hence why SpringMan is an assist and Rex is a mii costume. If Isaac is an AT, it means that he was never planned as a fighter at all and you should be happy he got SOMETHING at least
This games roster was decided in late 2015. And it wouldn't be a stretch to say the assist list was decided at the exact same time too. We know that ARM's began development sometime around the period of smash ultimate, so the AT was probably written down as "Lead of ARMS" Sakurai's comment suggested that he would have been a fighter had the project plan not been so set in stone. As for ARM's in smash, the series was unlikely to get a character even via DLC as Sakurai has a historical wait and see approach. Otherwise Inklings would have been early smash 4 dlc. If ARMS 2 is produced before Smash 6, than Springman will be among the first reveals.

Xenoblade is an established and growing franchise that is currently very relevant and has a ever growing fanbase. Mii costumes do not deconfirm. In fact in this case I would argue it adds to that characters chances as said costume is not in the base game, but a bonus for getting the season pass. Which could very easily be an indicator for what is to come. So all that more than suggests to me that not only is Rex a fighter. He is one of, if not the first, DLC fighters.
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
21,444
Location
Vancouver
But if he truly cared about the fans and was listening to them, he'd 'compromise' someone like Piranha Pant out. Or maybe dedicate less time to echo fighters.
No one should really be shocked or appalled that Sakurai has not abandoned surprise characters. That would just be completely subverting expectations of Sakurai, which isn't wise. I'm not big on the surprise characters either, but, ironically enough, their presence shouldn't still come as a surprise.

To be honest, anyone who has done this song and dance before should've readily accounted for the possibility.
 

Xenigma

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
1,033
Location
Charleston, SC
NNID
Xenigma
One more thought: we saw that certain Assist Trophies can appear as opponents in Spirits, and with Matthew already confirmed as a spirit it wouldn't be surprising to see Isaac as an opponent in his challenge. It's not much of a consolation prize, but I'm looking forward to that possibility.
 

Icedragonadam

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
4,093
Switch FC
SW-5227-6397-6112
My sympathies to you Isaac fans. You got him back in Ultimate only to have him be an AT again. :(
 

StrawHatX

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
1,086
1/59 is better than 0/59. Or the alternative, 0/74.

But if you'd rather the zeroes, keep the items off. Then you can pretend he's not in the game, as you seem to prefer.
It already feels that way. I don’t need to pretend.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I know a lot of you are angry and/or sad, and well, that's normal. Don't let people harassing you make you feel worse.

But, try to look on the bright side now that we've digested this for a few hours and understood more as to what this all means.

1. There's actually an even steeper decline in your standing now that trophies have been replaced by Spirits. You're either playable, an Assist Trophy, or a piece of artwork that's treated like a bloody Tamagotchi! And this means that all Assist Trophies will likely have bios in the information book section of the game, just like the regular fighters.
2. More likely than not, Golden Sun will get more content. If the item is still a Golden Sun-related item, that's still a positive (though, yes, I'd prefer a playable character), and we could still get plenty of Spirits based off of characters from the three games.
3. Even though Sakurai is a strange ass mofo, he, for some absurd reason, doesn't have as much hatred of Golden Sun as I thought back in Smash 4, because it's pretty clear that Palutena's Temple, his pride and joy back then, is going to be the stage where Golden Sun's music will be, and was also the exclusive stage where Isaac's AT enhancements were showcased.

And, yes, he still picked a potted plant over a bunch of people, but we weren't the only ones to get stiff-armed today. Keep this in mind.

Though, it wasn't all bad for me today; yes it was rainy as everything in my city, but I finally won a legal argument over my Supplemental Security Income benefits with the government as a judge presided over my case and, after hearing from an impartial doctor, he determined that my mental disabilities were too "marked" for substantial work (as in, long hours with high demand and constant need of flexibility), and the judge forwarded the motion, so by the new year, I won't have to worry about money anymore and can finally focus on getting the mental therapy I've been needing.
 

KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
If being loud and obnoxious got Reggie to acknowledge the Waluigi fans... then I'm wondering if that's what it takes for Isaac to get noticed too, honestly.
Or we could take the reasonable approach and form a petition.

Being obnoxious to Sakurai like a select few Waluigi fans were in July will just damage our public perception, and nobody wants that.
 

TheBeastHimself

No time for tea, uncle, gotta capture the Avatar!
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
2,427
Location
New York
Now that I think about it, Piranha Plant isn't that bad. I personally think that the character is stupid, but it's just a bonus who's not counting as DLC so it's not really hurting anyone... But still, I don't believe Issac should have been an assist. Even before development of Ultimate, there was a lot of support for Issac. Because there is even more support now, I honestly think his chances in a future game have improved a lot. I will definitely support Issac for DLC, but it sucks that they made him an assist again :(
 

Tetiro

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
877
Location
United Kingdom
I posted this on Reddit but I should post it here too

I have been a fan of the series for a while and today was proof we have the popularity to get into Smash. It may not have been the outcome we wanted but hey! Isaac is now back in Smash! But remember he would have not appeared at all had it not been for us. We did this!

But right now, a lot of us are hurting. And too rightly so. This is a character we love and care about. Of course it will hurt! Some of us may want to quit. But don't! We can't stop now. But at the same point, we need to discuss about Nintendo.

It has been eight years since Golden Sun last got an entry. They might not think the series matters as much anymore. But we do! Until Dark Dawn, the series has been a million seller each time. And Dark Dawn only failed due to being sold at the end of the DS's lifespan and the lack of marketing. And even then, the fans are there. As much as the Xenoblade fans.

So why did he not get in? Well Nintendo is a business plain and simple. It is a numbers game regarding who gets in the roster. Ridley and King K Rool got in because their numbers proved that they are a USP (Unique Selling Point) to the success of the game sales. Smash's character roster is a USP. Had it not had the characters back in the day, it would have failed to become the series it is.

Why do I mention this? Because right now, it is clear Nintendo don't see us as a big enough number. But we can change that!

Have you ever heard the TV series of Chuck? It is a television series that got cancelled and through the fans buying enough of the product sponsored in the series, revived the series! A series that was dead. It was all done through the fans and their efforts.

So, you still want Isaac to be in? We can do this. Show our outright support in one single day.

What I propose is a campaign of showing positive support for Golden Sun. On November 11th, Golden Sun will be 17 years old in the US. The perfect excuse to promote our love for Isaac! What I recommend is doing any (or all) of the following

  • On the day, post to your respective Nintendo Twitter/Facebook/Social Media's country accounts (Nintendo UK, of America et). Celebrate your love for Golden Sun and add the tag #Isaac4Smash and #BringBackGoldenSun
  • On that day, buy the Golden Sun ports on the Wii U and post that to the Nintendo's social media accounts. Buy the old games too (if you can find it) and post a photo of it!
  • Gather the troops! Talk about Golden Sun all day and how it should be revived. The more who know about it, the more likely they will join our cause
  • Convince others to play Golden Sun! Remember, the only reason Golden Sun isn't active right now is they believe there is no future sales. We can prove them wrong!
  • Spread the word on this plan! If you don't, the plan will never work. We need to find as many Golden Sun fans as possible.
  • Basically, on November 11th, prove with all you can that Golden Sun should be a revived series and Isaac matters
The truth is, WE are the people responsible for Isaac's inclusion in Smash and Golden Sun's revival. If we want to do it, we need to share it as far as we can and gather as many people who love the series as possible to get as many of the fans posting about it on that one day. If we don't, we might say goodbye to Golden Sun forever. Even if we don't succeed. Even if November 11th goes off well and they still don't give him recognition, at least we can let the sun set knowing we did all we could to save him and his series.

I will be doing all I can on November 11th. Let us show that no matter the outcome for Golden Sun, its fans never left and want the series back

I believe in our Golden Boy! Do you?
 

ZelDan

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
3,303
Location
New Hampshire
One more thought: we saw that certain Assist Trophies can appear as opponents in Spirits, and with Matthew already confirmed as a spirit it wouldn't be surprising to see Isaac as an opponent in his challenge. It's not much of a consolation prize, but I'm looking forward to that possibility.
It would be nice if Isaac was a part of the story mode in some small way atleast and not have his only form of showing up being "hey he has a 1/59 chance of maybe showing up!...if you play with items on!"
 

LuminoZero

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
182
Hey, crazy conspiracy theory time!

Question: If you wanted to prevent DLC leaks (as Sakurai does) how would you best do it?

Answer: By convincing everyone that the characters were already deconfirmed. I mean, if people saw an image of Isaac they'd just say "Oh, it's just a shot of his AT" and ignore it.

The "AT=Not Playable" is a fan rule, which has already been bent slightly because Rathalos is the first Stage Boss to also be an AT. Rules are made to be broken, and Sakurai does it often. Let's add that the company implicated with the Grinch Leak still has not said anything about it (while Marina did) and deleted a video showing their facilities.

There's something else going on here, but I'm not sure as to what it is. Maybe it's nothing, maybe he's dead, but somehow I'm not so certain.
 

TappyBat

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
596
While I was 100% elated and happy to see Incineroar show up and look incredible as I had hoped and thought he could be... I was saddened the second he announced that was it for newcomers as my thoughts had already began to shift to Isaac, Shadow, Geno, and Banjo's fates. Isaac has a lot of potential with his earth powers and elemental ties in general, I'm still willing to hope he has some sort of chance or at the very least maybe Golden Sun's status may improve with a new installment with Isaac making a return.
doubt it bet cha ninty thinks GS doesn't make money cause DD sold like garbage so Camelot is stuck making sports games for eternity. cause they make money you see ;_;
 

KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
I posted this on Reddit but I should post it here too

I have been a fan of the series for a while and today was proof we have the popularity to get into Smash. It may not have been the outcome we wanted but hey! Isaac is now back in Smash! But remember he would have not appeared at all had it not been for us. We did this!

But right now, a lot of us are hurting. And too rightly so. This is a character we love and care about. Of course it will hurt! Some of us may want to quit. But don't! We can't stop now. But at the same point, we need to discuss about Nintendo.

It has been eight years since Golden Sun last got an entry. They might not think the series matters as much anymore. But we do! Until Dark Dawn, the series has been a million seller each time. And Dark Dawn only failed due to being sold at the end of the DS's lifespan and the lack of marketing. And even then, the fans are there. As much as the Xenoblade fans.

So why did he not get in? Well Nintendo is a business plain and simple. It is a numbers game regarding who gets in the roster. Ridley and King K Rool got in because their numbers proved that they are a USP (Unique Selling Point) to the success of the game sales. Smash's character roster is a USP. Had it not had the characters back in the day, it would have failed to become the series it is.

Why do I mention this? Because right now, it is clear Nintendo don't see us as a big enough number. But we can change that!

Have you ever heard the TV series of Chuck? It is a television series that got cancelled and through the fans buying enough of the product sponsored in the series, revived the series! A series that was dead. It was all done through the fans and their efforts.

So, you still want Isaac to be in? We can do this. Show our outright support in one single day.

What I propose is a campaign of showing positive support for Golden Sun. On November 11th, Golden Sun will be 17 years old in the US. The perfect excuse to promote our love for Isaac! What I recommend is doing any (or all) of the following

  • On the day, post to your respective Nintendo Twitter/Facebook/Social Media's country accounts (Nintendo UK, of America et). Celebrate your love for Golden Sun and add the tag #Isaac4Smash and #BringBackGoldenSun
  • On that day, buy the Golden Sun ports on the Wii U and post that to the Nintendo's social media accounts. Buy the old games too (if you can find it) and post a photo of it!
  • Gather the troops! Talk about Golden Sun all day and how it should be revived. The more who know about it, the more likely they will join our cause
  • Convince others to play Golden Sun! Remember, the only reason Golden Sun isn't active right now is they believe there is no future sales. We can prove them wrong!
  • Spread the word on this plan! If you don't, the plan will never work. We need to find as many Golden Sun fans as possible.
  • Basically, on November 11th, prove with all you can that Golden Sun should be a revived series and Isaac matters
The truth is, WE are the people responsible for Isaac's inclusion in Smash and Golden Sun's revival. If we want to do it, we need to share it as far as we can and gather as many people who love the series as possible to get as many of the fans posting about it on that one day. If we don't, we might say goodbye to Golden Sun forever. Even if we don't succeed. Even if November 11th goes off well and they still don't give him recognition, at least we can let the sun set knowing we did all we could to save him and his series.

I will be doing all I can on November 11th. Let us show that no matter the outcome for Golden Sun, its fans never left and want the series back

I believe in our Golden Boy! Do you?
I will never give up on Isaac.

Ever.
 

Teeb147

Smash Legend
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Not that I think blame is a solution, ever, but I think more people should be mad at whoever made the banner leak, more than sakurai.
 

VexTheHex

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Messages
567
doubt it bet cha ninty thinks GS doesn't make money cause DD sold like garbage so Camelot is stuck making sports games for eternity. cause they make money you see ;_;
I still think Isaac coming back into Smash is a good sign as that shows Nintendo realizes there is at least some outcry for him. The official site is pretty out of whack for me now so can't check much, but some other ATs didn't even make the cut this time as far as I can tell like Saki and Sable Prince. They may now be gone for good. Meanwhile Isaac wasn't in 4 but making a comeback in Ultimate at least shows he isn't dead.

I'm not going to lie and act like he or his series is locked for anything in the future, but at least he has a little footing regained.
 
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ZelDan

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Honestly, Part of me can't wait to see how people react to leaks when it comes to DLC/future Smash titles after what went down with the Grinch nonsense.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
One more thought: we saw that certain Assist Trophies can appear as opponents in Spirits, and with Matthew already confirmed as a spirit it wouldn't be surprising to see Isaac as an opponent in his challenge. It's not much of a consolation prize, but I'm looking forward to that possibility.
Wait... where did you see this? In the Treehouse?
 

Quetzal77

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I don't think I'm going to be watching any analysis or reaction videos. I have a feeling most will be acting like these last 3 characters are Not Bad At All and if they even mention Isaac it'll be to downplay his importance and/or mention how salty his fans are about him being an AT.
 

Biometal

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405
Coming from the Shantae Support thread to say that, as Isaac was my 2nd most wanted, I don't get why he basically got pooped on yet again, but in the end it's Sakurai's game and his decision---even if they don't always make the best amount of sense.

Huge missed opportunities with the recent reveals, considering a few of those ATs were highly requested characters who've gotten deconfirmed all at once.

Let's just hope the cliff hanger from Dark Dawn's ending revives the Golden Sun to shine once again over Weyard.
 
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AlliwantisIsaac

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Not that I think blame is a solution, ever, but I think more people should be mad at whoever made the banner leak, more than sakurai.
I'm not gonna be mad them. I'm impressed! But there's something that doesn't add up... both ken renders seem to be the same on both banners. Coincidence? Maybe. Or maybe the grinch leak is actually real and some characters got scrapped while the ohters are potential dlc.
 
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Xenigma

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Wait... where did you see this? In the Treehouse?
In the Direct, the challenge for the Imprisoned (Skyward Sword boss) features the Ghirahim AT guarding a gigantic K. Rool. Not sure if there are any others but that's at least proof it can happen.

EDIT: Just in case I misunderstood, Matthew is one of the many spirits you can see on the official website. Therefore, Golden Sun spirit plus ATs appearing in spirit challenges equals significant chance of Isaac appearing in a spirit challenge.
 
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Jupiter Ivan

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
527
Yeah. I say we focus on Isaac. No matter what. He’s the one that deserves to be in Smash. Many of us would be ok with Felix or Mathew, but Isaac’s the one we’ve always campaigned for. And he’s the one we should continue to campaign for.

I’ll admit. I don’t have much hope for DLC. Something tells me it’s already planned. So it’s likely nothing we say will truly matter on the Smash side of things unless there’s a year 2 fighters pass. Or... the next Smash game.

Regardless. We can’t stop crying out for our boy. Not until he makes that roster. Even if it will take another 2 decades. The moment we give up is the moment Golden Sun dies. I won’t have that.

Golden Sun Revival Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/TheSunRisesAga2
 

Pyzlnar

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Hey, crazy conspiracy theory time!

Question: If you wanted to prevent DLC leaks (as Sakurai does) how would you best do it?

Answer: By convincing everyone that the characters were already deconfirmed. I mean, if people saw an image of Isaac they'd just say "Oh, it's just a shot of his AT" and ignore it.

The "AT=Not Playable" is a fan rule, which has already been bent slightly because Rathalos is the first Stage Boss to also be an AT. Rules are made to be broken, and Sakurai does it often. Let's add that the company implicated with the Grinch Leak still has not said anything about it (while Marina did) and deleted a video showing their facilities.

There's something else going on here, but I'm not sure as to what it is. Maybe it's nothing, maybe he's dead, but somehow I'm not so certain.
Nah, I don't see it man.

Like, if that's the case then we enter in competition with ~50 other assist trophies.

Zero, Waluigi, Ashely.
So many characters that have a potentially fun moveset.

Maybe one day... but not this time.
 

Johnknight1

Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
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We started and continuously ran a campaign for Isaac to be playable in Brawl.
Isaac was an Assist Trophy. He wasn't playable.
We pressed onward.

We started and continuously ran a campaign for Isaac to be playable in Smash 4.
Isaac was absent entirely. He wasn't playable.
We pressed onward.

We started and continuously ran a campaign for Isaac to be playable in Smash 4 DLC.
Isaac was an absent entirely. He wasn't playable.
We pressed onward.

We started and continuously ran a campaign for Issac to be playable in Smash Ultimate.
Isaac was an Assist Trophy. He wasn't playable.
We shall press onward.

So when Smash Ultimate DLC...
We shall start and continue to run a campaign for Isaac to be a playable character in Smash Ultimate DLC.
And we shall press onward.

Stay positive, stay joyful, stay persistent. Don't take the losses hard. But don't be afraid to sit down a bleed out the hurt a little either. It is okay to feel let down.

And most importantly just have fun.
 
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OptimisticStrifer

Smash Champion
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Aug 8, 2018
Messages
2,403
Or we could take the reasonable approach and form a petition.

Being obnoxious to Sakurai like a select few Waluigi fans were in July will just damage our public perception, and nobody wants that.
But vocalness is what catches attention and nets you a DLC slot; We're not getting Isaac in with the methods we're using.
 

JoyStar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
413
Dropping in again from the Skull Kid thread (hi again) to say that I definitely feel your pain. Isaac and Skull Kid were given beyond the short end of the stick (the stick is a dot to us). But we can't give up hope. We have to show everyone that our favorites deserve to be playable. Just because they've been an Assist in the past (and may be now) doesn't mean we can't rally for them to be playable. No matter what,

Like has been said, there's no rule that Assist characters can't be playable as DLC afterwards. We have to rally support behind the characters we love so much. Show that we want to allow them to take their place on the battliefield, playable like they deserve to be.
 
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