Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[PokiehlthePoet]

If it is a Growth item we have reason to believe it creates a ladder of vines that one can use to climb. Would fit wth what it does in the games as well as the fact that Ultimate is introducing a ladder attack mechanic... for only a handful of stages. So an item would give that mechanic more purpose. Growth seems to be perfect for that.

Whoa... I have a feeling that will turn out to be true.

 

[pholtos]

Guys guys... both sides are right.
Isaac is in.
He's also an AT.
and a stage, and a mode, and a music, and an item.

 

[N3ON]

Except he got Isabelle wrong about being an echo. He has gotten things right and wrong, just like anybody who does not have "insider" information.

There is also the issue of piggybacking off of other "leakers".

I'm not sure why he posted that he heard she was an echo because in that very post he mentioned how that claim wasn't fully vetted as per his usual routine. But it stands in contrast to claims that he himself made, you can go and compare it, this one he simply relayed a single source.

But let me ask you this, because we're just going to keep running in circles. What would it take for Vergeben to be a credible leaker for you? Because clearly predicting the roster from Ridley to now, not conclusively but so far without fail, including several picks that no one else was publicly making at the time, clearly that doesn't sway the needle. Will being right about Incineroar and Isaac? Doesn't seem like it.

Personally I'm not going to change my opinion, because it seems so painfully obvious to me that he has sources (people such as Imran of resetera - a senior editor of Game Informer - have claimed to be in the same insider chats as him) and if you're not going to change yours, we're simply at an impasse, and continuing to belabour it will be meaningless between us.

While I think it's pretty certain Incineroar is in, probably shouldn't count him just yet on lists such as this. I mean you never know what could happen (although I agree he's in).

I do agree with the point you're trying to make though. Definitely revisionism.

Fair enough, point still stands without that part.

 

[QcSlayer]

Wait he was?!?!?

I don,t know, but I don,t see why they would cut an AT from a character who place aproximatly 20/30 ish in Japan.

 

[AlliwantisIsaac]

God damn this place is a ****ing train wreck!! I for one, refuse to give up hope. Not until good ol doctor sakurai gives it to me straight.

Btw if i ever wanna kms i know what thread i should visit to get me in the mood. Stay positive! Don't cry before they beat you!

 

[pholtos]

I don't care how correct or incorrect he may be, past present or future, Mr. Leaker has zero respect from me.

Also weren't we told not to go on these huge tangential rants again about the guy at some point?

 

[StrawHatX]

The reason Simon wasn't considered likely is because if someone from Konami was getting in, it was Snake, then after that it was a huge battle between Simon and Bomberman. Bomberman is just as iconic as Castlevania and is arguably much easier to envision as a Smash character. Obviously after E3 where Snake and Bomberman were both shown everyone thought Simon was coming, but Vergeben talked about Simon before E3, which means Simon was only Konami's 3rd most requested char to be in Smash.

Bomberman as a character might be considered more iconic than Simon, but Castlevania is a more iconic series.

Again I hadn’t heard about this guy until after the August Direct so when he was praised for Simon I was surprised most people didn’t see that coming even with Snake there. And again, I find it hard I believe he found out about Simon but not Richter who was developed right along side him.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I have always said when talking about this guy that I fully believe he found out about the E3 presentation so he knew about everyone coming back and about Ridley. I think that much is obvious.

After that he “leaked” Simon, Isabelle, Incineroar, and Ken.

I predicted Simon and Isabelle before I knew who this guy was. Simon is the last big NES era character to have not been in Smash and Nintendo and Konami have been pals for awhile now. Castlevania is a big franchise. I couldn’t believe people DIDN’T think Simon was likely. But I guess I’m in the minority. And Isabelle is the face of Animal crossing which has one rep. Everyone thought she’d be in as an Echo. Including old Vergy. She was actually a unique fighter.

Incineroar and Ken were leaked by him after the August Direct when we saw Simon get an Echo (which by the way Verg somehow didn’t know about despite apparently knowing about Simon. How the hell is that even possible? I dunno). So then it’s was obvious third party characters could have Echos and he went with the bold choice of Ken. Whoa.

Gen 7 is the newest generation of Pokémon. It was always going to be Decidueye or Incineroar. Let’s not kid ourselves.

Didn’t know anything about any of all the other newcomers. Even a big name like K. Rool. That’s weird. But then that would be a risky guess unlike Ken or Isabelle.

If he’d seen the E3 presentation he’d have at least been a little more reliable. He failed to mention Everyone is Here and the remaining cut characters returning. Which makes me think he got ahold of knowledge of specifically the demo because that would have been enough to get Snake, Ice Climbers, and the fair assumption that there were no cuts since the demo roster was so big and more importantly, everyone already believed it to be a Smash 4 port.

If that’s the case, Verge loses what little credibility he has because Snake and Simon are his ONLY claims to fame of any substance. Because Konami was assumed out of the running for Smash. Ridley was going to show up in leaks til he either got in or the end of the time like always. Isabelle lots of people did predict as well (though I’ve never been able to find out if he did ever say definitively that she was an Echo, which as a semi-clone people let him weasel out of the claim). Minecraft is MIA and he took forever to specify a Pokémon. Which was helped as the anime seemed to begin to emphasize Incineroar more and more (and proceed to ruin him with that run animation that looks atrocious).

Missing Everyone is Here is kind of a big deal since that was the entire point of the initial reveal. And you can’t say he didn’t miss it because he deliberately specified Ice Climbers and Snake with no cuts from Smash 4...

 

[PokiehlthePoet]

God damn this place is a ****ing train wreck!! I for one, refuse to give up hope. Not until good ol doctor sakurai gives it to me straight.

Btw if i ever wanna kms i know what thread i should visit to get me in the mood. Stay positive! Don't cry before they beat you!

LOL.
Tell me about it...

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

God damn this place is a ****ing train wreck!! I for one, refuse to give up hope. Not until good ol doctor sakurai gives it to me straight.

Btw if i ever wanna kms i know what thread i should visit to get me in the mood. Stay positive! Don't cry before they beat you!

anywhere on gamefaqs.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

You accused me of being a fake fan. I gave you more than enough to prove that's wrong.

Because you kept on being negative and felt it important to let others know how you feel regardless of how productive that was to the group. Trying to continuously push what you say on to the board leads one to believe you are trying to convert others.

Personally I don't really care if you believe what I did or who I talked too today. But to prove this guy is legit. Here you go.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sephazon

Also included is an image from about 2 hours ago. He was asked the same thing, same server.

About time. Took you long enough to provide anything substantial. My question is why were you so reluctant to just show evidence instead of me take you at your word?

Note: We got some sources that helps prove that Sephazon indeeds works with Nintendo. Now where is the source behind Sephazon saying that we are only getting two more characters?

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Guys guys... both sides are right.
Isaac is in.
He's also an AT.
and a stage, and a mode, and a music, and an item.

Reminds me of a time when someone supposedly claimed that King K. Rool was either an Assist or a Stage because they 'claimed' that Game & Watch would be the fighter that would be posted on a certain day. (That was a long time ago when I lurked the K. Rool thread, so I don't remember all the details, but I think this is most likely an attempt to get underneath the fanbase's skin to make them worry.)

I wouldn't worry. We're all in this together, and we'll live to see the Golden Sun rise once more one day, be it the Final Direct, or in the future if he's absent yet again.

 

[SonicLink125]

These """sources""" and """insiders""" are all full of it. We've had nothing but the same "2-3 characters left" until the Grinch Leak came along and now almost everyone somehow has a source that says the Grinch Leak is fake/incomplete/etc. and so conflicting with one another just gave me a huge red flag to not listen to any of these guys anymore. They are trying to stir up more hatred and sorrow whether intentional or not. Also, Nintendo Ninjas are at high alert trying to do damage control to confuse us and to "maintain" our hype level. At the end of it all, unless they have concrete proof that can debunk the leak, I'm going into the Direct with full confidence that Isaac made it in as well as The Grinch Crew.

I will gladly take the L if it was fake, but that will not stop me from giving up on our Golden Boy! And it should not stop any of you my fellow Adepts, Grinchbros and other Supportbros here!

Do NOT forget why we are here! Whether you believe Isaac has a chance or not, do NOT lose faith in him.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I'm not sure why he posted that he heard she was an echo because in that very post he mentioned how that claim wasn't fully vetted as per his usual routine. But it stands in contrast to claims that he himself made, you can go and compare it, this one he simply relayed a single source.

So Vergeben is blaming his sources for Isabelle being wrong?

But let me ask you this, because we're just going to keep running in circles. What would it take for Vergeben to be a credible leaker for you? Because clearly predicting the roster from Ridley to now, not conclusively but so far without fail, including several picks that no one else was publicly making at the time, clearly that doesn't sway the needle. Will being right about Incineroar and Isaac? Doesn't seem like it.

I cannot believe someone who claims to have insider information and yet is reluctant to reveal the full roster without having to "consult his sources".

 

[AlliwantisIsaac]

anywhere on gamefaqs.

Vergeben can suck a ****! There, I said it!

*drops mic*

 

[Dhragen]

Adding to my previous post with the recent news, issac as an AT could had been a possibilitie at the start of development, its possible that they could change plans for him on the middle and maybe made him a fighter.

But enough with the "If"s. The sad thing of all this is how vergeben became the True Grinch, the Grinch that stole our Direct Hype, he is really a mean one.

 

[9Blades]

I really should be sleeping but...duty calls and memes had to be made. (For those that don't get the context, in Danganronpa V3, whenever there was a split opinion during the trial, there would be a debate scrum between the opposing sides)

 

[N3ON]

I have always said when talking about this guy that I fully believe he found out about the E3 presentation so he knew about everyone coming back and about Ridley. I think that much is obvious.

After that he “leaked” Simon, Isabelle, Incineroar, and Ken.

I predicted Simon and Isabelle before I knew who this guy was. Simon is the last big NES era character to have not been in Smash and Nintendo and Konami have been pals for awhile now. Castlevania is a big franchise. I couldn’t believe people DIDN’T think Simon was likely. But I guess I’m in the minority. And Isabelle is the face of Animal crossing which has one rep. Everyone thought she’d be in as an Echo. Including old Vergy. She was actually a unique fighter.

Incineroar and Ken were leaked by him after the August Direct when we saw Simon get an Echo (which by the way Verg somehow didn’t know about despite apparently knowing about Simon. How the hell is that even possible? I dunno). So then it’s was obvious third party characters could have Echos and he went with the bold choice of Ken. Whoa.

Gen 7 is the newest generation of Pokémon. It was always going to be Decidueye or Incineroar. Let’s not kid ourselves.

Didn’t know anything about any of all the other newcomers. Even a big name like K. Rool. That’s weird. But then that would be a risky guess unlike Ken or Isabelle.

1. If he had seen the E3 presentation he'd know about the other returning vets. Or at least Pokemon Trainer, who was in the demo.
2. Simon was pre-E3, Konami's involvement was as of yet unconfirmed.
3. If you anticipated Simon good on you, but like you said, you're the minority. Not a safe pick. Especially with Konami's ****ery.
4. Vergeben did not personally endorse the Isabelle echo claim, he relayed a single one of his sources. Also I think calling her unique is a big stretch (but that's neither here nor there)
5. Incineroar was leaked prior to the E3 direct, when Mimikyu and Decidueye were both significantly more expected
6. Yeah, he went with Ken. But surprisingly, not the more popular, early theorized Shadow, who now may very well not be playable. Whoa indeed.

Also, just for a second, imagine that Vergeben is legit. What do you want him to do about Isabelle and Ken if he's fully vetted them and believes in their inclusion. Not leak them, just because they're safe picks? This is a huge double standard. Him leaking them is a point against him because they're "safe picks", but if he hadn't, people would say "he missed safe picks", another point against him. There's literally no winning.

 

[StrawHatX]

If that’s the case, Verge loses what little credibility he has because Snake and Simon are his ONLY claims to fame of any substance.

I know. Weird right? Almost like if it wasn’t for that presentation all of his “predictions” don’t look so great.

Ken, Isabelle, Incineroar? Some of the most obvious (safe) picks. Simon I guess was hard to imagine although I always thought he’d get in, but apparently most didn’t.

What characters that were revealed did he not predict? Chrom, Dark Samus, Richter, and King K. Rool. Oh that’s weird... Characters that aren’t (safe) picks. Hmm......

But of course every time a character would be revealed that he didn’t predict everyone would come to his aid with “he said he didn’t know about the whole roster”. Must be nice.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

To be honest I'm not sure if I can watch the direct.

I don't feel anywhere close to being prepared mentally for Isaac showing up as an assist trophy.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Because you kept on being negative and felt it important to let others know how you feel regardless of how productive that was to the group. Trying to continuously push what you say on to the board leads one to believe you are trying to convert others.



About time. Took you long enough to provide anything substantial. My question is why were you so reluctant to just show evidence instead of me take you at your word?

Note: We got some sources that helps prove that Sephazon indeeds works with Nintendo. Now where is the source behind Sephazon saying that we are only getting two more characters?

Have fun with that line of thought. If I was trying to convert other people away from Isaac i'd just go to freaking gamefaqs.

Anyways how about you wager a guess? It couldn't possibly be because it's a waste of time. Because I literally have no way of replicating something said on VOICE

 

[N3ON]

So Vergeben is blaming his sources for Isabelle being wrong?



I cannot believe someone who claims to have insider information and yet is reluctant to reveal the full roster without having to "consult his sources".

So a senior editor of game informer saying he shared an insider chatroom with vergeben does nothing for you?

 

[Oracle_Summon]

4. Vergeben did not personally endorse the Isabelle echo claim, he relayed a single one of his sources. Also I think calling her unique is a big stretch (but that's neither here nor there)

So Vergeben is blaming one of his "sources" for Isabelle being a wrong? If so, why is he credited for being trustworthy for right information and his "sources" get blamed for wrong information?

Have fun with that line of thought. If I was trying to convert other people away from Isaac i'd just go to freaking gamefaqs.

You'll convince more people you are a legitimate Isaac supporter once you stop trying to bring the mood of the Support thread down.

Anyways how about you wager a guess? It couldn't possibly be because it's a waste of time. Because I literally have no way of replicating something said on VOICE

I don't make wagers on anything. I only accept things that are facts. You provided that your source did work for Nintendo, but are unable to provide sources stating what they said. The part about having only two characters must be discarded as there is no evidence behind those claims. Nothing that your source says can be claimed as truth unless you can prove they have said it; otherwise, it is simply hearsay.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I'm gonna be very blunt. But most of you all are not trying to even hope.

You have all these hints, and all these factors you can consider. Verge might be one obstacle, but he's an obstacle that's possible to overcome.

The possibility of Isaac being in Smash is a lot more likely than it's ever been. Even if you guys don't want to believe any of the evidence, it's better to at least hope that he's in. The isaac fans at least have it better than the F-Zero fans, who have nothing to go off of at This point.

You all told me that I should be more positive when we were at our lowest back in September. But people should take that's advice too. If anything, negativity makes this thread become more depressed to be in. It's not healthy for a thread like this.

So if nothing else, Positivity is the thing we should spread. Not negativity.

 

[NessAtc.]

So Vergeben is blaming one of his "sources" for Isabelle being a wrong? If so, why is he credited for being trustworthy for right information and his "sources" get blamed for wrong information?

Because that's what vergeben does. If he's right, he gets claim to all the credit, and if he's wrong, he gets to blame it on bad sources. It's a catch 22. The rules he has set for himself makes it so his credibility can never tank definitively.

 

[N3ON]

So Vergeben is blaming one of his "sources" for Isabelle being a wrong? If so, why is he credited for being trustworthy for right information and his "sources" get blamed for wrong information?

Because everything else he vetted, admitted to vetting, staked his own reputation on, and was correct about.

That instance he was asked about Isabelle being an echo, relayed one source he was told, and didn't personally endorse it himself. That's an unorthodox approach, but one different than the method in which he's had an unbroken success rate in.

Vergeben is an overly prideful guy, but the stuff he's actually put his name on as his own claims, those have been right since Ridley.

EDIT: Validity of the content aside, it would be the difference in Mystic's "Confirmed" and "Unconfirmed" sections from those tweets. One he had enough sources to throw his endorsement on, the others he relayed but due to conflicting or minimal sources, he didn't endorse.

 

[Icana]

I want to give some support to TheSpaceKing12 because he's hurting. I also appreciate and love Isaac for Smash Pls optimism and strength. Things can't get done without that. I know SpaceKing had that optimism once too, and that fueled him to go the lengths he did to support our character of choice. He's very much one of us and a very valued user in our group. I just want that communicated to our friend TheSpaceKing12 even though we are having a tense discourse.

No doubt in my mind, should somehow this story ends on the best possible note with Isaac in as a playable fighter on Thursday, we'll all be screaming our lungs off.

Likewise, even if we convince ourselves Isaac is 1000% no doubt an assist trophy, it's gonna hurt HARD when we see him in that AT reel no matter the expectations.

Regardless, things aren't completely dark here. Mystic is saying he's confidant our boy is in. He has no Smash record that I'm aware of, so the tide feels like it's working against us. Verge has more credence due to past revelations, and he's telling us the worst possible story. There is no getting around that. The only thing we can do now is hope Mystic is the one in the right and earns his first true Smash claims, and Verge get's his first real Smash error.

I choose to be an optimist and retain hope. I'm NOT going to cry today. I'll cry when it's over (hopefully with joy, and not sadness). Right now, I cheer. C'MON ISAAC!!! Defy the odds, dude!

 

[Nazyrus]

Except Vergeben has parroted stuff others leaked way before he ever did. There isn't really much credit in his claims as people make it seem.

 

[SonicLink125]

I'm gonna be very blunt. But most of you all are not trying to even hope.

You have all these hints, and all these factors you can consider. Verge might be one obstacle, but he's an obstacle that's possible to overcome.

The possibility of Isaac being in Smash is a lot more likely than it's ever been. Even if you guys don't want to believe any of the evidence, it's better to at least hope that he's in. The isaac fans at least have it better than the F-Zero fans, who have nothing to go off of at This point.

You all told me that I should be more positive when we were at our lowest back in September. But people should take that's advice too. If anything, negativity makes this thread become more depressed to be in. It's not healthy for a thread like this.

So if nothing else, Positivity is the thing we should spread. Not negativity.

^THIS
And this is coming from a known pessimistic Isaac fan (No offence, Xeno).

Do NOT let these """leakers""" fool you anymore. They're desperate for attention now and will do whatever they can to milk what's left of this final hour of Smash Speculation. Besides, I bet that their upset that they realized that they've been leak baited hard and are trying hard not to let it be known.

 

[Katy Parry]

Everyone remain calm.

Issac was wanted as much as Waluigi. Both characters from Camelot. They'd have squashed any dreams immediately if they had the chance to reveal him as an AT. Sakurai wouldn't keep the hype just to kill it. He is well aware of Isaac's popularity, and he said himself before he knows that fans analyze all of the data he puts out or releases. So he knew that item was in the trailer. That wasn't an accident. He's the director. He's going to approve what footage is shown.

 

[NessAtc.]

Because everything else he vetted, admitted to vetting, staked his own reputation on, and was correct about.

That instance he was asked about Isabelle being an echo, relayed one source he was told, and didn't personally endorse it himself. That's an unorthodox approach, but one different than the method in which he's had an unbroken success rate in.

Vergeben is an overly prideful guy, but the stuff he's actually put his name on as his own claims, those have been right since Ridley.

If Loz did anything for the community, it was exposing that Vergeben can and will hide any and all sources he doesn't necessarily believe in. The reason he hides those sources is so that his credibility doesn't tank. But if he gets all of his information from all these sources, then he may be extremely prone to being swayed one way or another, and I have speculated from the beginning that Incineroar was always intended to be this.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

So a senior editor of game informer saying he shared an insider chatroom with vergeben does nothing for you?

I keep running across claims like these being made without any link to said evidence. Unless otherwise I cannot take it at word value.

Because everything else he vetted, admitted to vetting, staked his own reputation on, and was correct about.

That instance he was asked about Isabelle being an echo, relayed one source he was told, and didn't personally endorse it himself. That's an unorthodox approach, but one different than the method in which he's had an unbroken success rate in.

Vergeben is an overly prideful guy, but the stuff he's actually put his name on as his own claims, those have been right since Ridley.

So Vergeben has proven he blames his "sources" whenever incorrect information is given. Fascinating, he can continue to claim his "sources" are wrong instead of him being wrong himself. Any claim that is untrue can just be him not "vetting" enough information out of his "source".

 

[LasermasterA]

Yo guys, I don't really come on this thread much these days cause it just went too fast for me to keep up.

But here's a reminder from me to not lose hope. Veggie burgers is just one "leaker" who got SOME stuff right, and completely missed out on other stuff.

We have a LOT going for us. The Grinch leak which has still to be disproved and has OODLES of evidence around it hinting at its legitimacy. We also have the item that looked like "Growth" in that Wendy's Tour.

We also have all the exit polls that continuously showed Isaac's popularity. And looking at how Ultimate is being pitched as a game for the fans, it's very unlikely they'll stop now!

Look at the bright side, rather than the dark one.

We have a lot more going FOR us rather than against us.

Anyways, peace out! I'll see you guys when Isaac is revealed as PLAYABLE tomorrow.

#IsaacForSmash

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

I'm gonna be very blunt. But most of you all are not trying to even hope.

You have all these hints, and all these factors you can consider. Verge might be one obstacle, but he's an obstacle that's possible to overcome.

The possibility of Isaac being in Smash is a lot more likely than it's ever been. Even if you guys don't want to believe any of the evidence, it's better to at least hope that he's in. The isaac fans at least have it better than the F-Zero fans, who have nothing to go off of at This point.

You all told me that I should be more positive when we were at our lowest back in September. But people should take that's advice too. If anything, negativity makes this thread become more depressed to be in. It's not healthy for a thread like this.

So if nothing else, Positivity is the thing we should spread. Not negativity.

I'm gonna try. Even though I may have laid down my sword and shield. I'm gonna try and hold on till the end. If the worst happens. We push for Matthew as DLC. If that fails it starts all over again with whatever comes next.

I want to give some support to TheSpaceKing12 because he's hurting. I also appreciate and love Isaac for Smash Pls optimism and strength. Things can't get done without that. I know SpaceKing had that optimism once too, and that fueled him to go the lengths he did to support our character of choice. He's very much one of us and a very valued user in our group. I just want that communicated to our friend TheSpaceKing12 even though we are having a tense discourse.

No doubt in my mind, should somehow this story ends on the best possible note with Isaac in as a playable fighter on Thursday, we'll all be screaming our lungs off.

Likewise, even if we convince ourselves Isaac is 1000% no doubt an assist trophy, it's gonna hurt HARD when we see him in that AT reel no matter the expectations.

Regardless, things aren't completely dark here. Mystic is saying he's confidant our boy is in. He has no Smash record that I'm aware of, so the tide feels like it's working against us. Verge has more credence due to past revelations, and he's telling us the worst possible story. There is no getting around that. The only thing we can do now is hope Mystic is the one in the right and earns his first true Smash claims, and Verge get's his first real Smash error.

I choose to be an optimist and retain hope. I'm NOT going to cry today. I'll cry when it's over (hopefully with joy, and not sadness). Right now, I cheer. C'MON ISAAC!!! Defy the odds, dude!

Thank you...

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

I want to give some support to TheSpaceKing12 because he's hurting. I also appreciate and love Isaac for Smash Pls optimism and strength. Things can't get done without that. I know SpaceKing had that optimism once too, and that fueled him to go the lengths he did to support our character of choice. He's very much one of us and a very valued user in our group. I just want that communicated to our friend TheSpaceKing12 even though we are having a tense discourse.

No doubt in my mind, should somehow this story ends on the best possible note with Isaac in as a playable fighter on Thursday, we'll all be screaming our lungs off.

Likewise, even if we convince ourselves Isaac is 1000% no doubt an assist trophy, it's gonna hurt HARD when we see him in that AT reel no matter the expectations.

Regardless, things aren't completely dark here. Mystic is saying he's confidant our boy is in. He has no Smash record that I'm aware of, so the tide feels like it's working against us. Verge has more credence due to past revelations, and he's telling us the worst possible story. There is no getting around that. The only thing we can do now is hope Mystic is the one in the right and earns his first true Smash claims, and Verge get's his first real Smash error.

I choose to be an optimist and retain hope. I'm NOT going to cry today. I'll cry when it's over (hopefully with joy, and not sadness). Right now, I cheer. C'MON ISAAC!!! Defy the odds, dude!

Thanks for saying that, my dude. And I also want to give a shout-out to TheSpaceKing12 because I do think he's at least as passionate as any of us if not more so. I just don't want anyone convincing themselves of one thing or another until we watch the Direct. My attitude from the start has been cautious optimism, and even though at several points I've felt more of one than the other, I've never 100% convinced myself that Isaac is in or out. I'm just prepared for the possibilities, and Vergeben coming in at the last second with this unsubstantiated claim doesn't negate all of the other circumstancial evidence we've seen. At worst it's a strike against our cause from someone who's never supported it in the first place.

Let's go into this final Direct with open minds, and remember: No one character should make or break this game for you. We're all Smash Bros fans here. We've all had our hearts broken twice before. If we survived the gutting of Smash 4 and still managed to enjoy that game, we'll enjoy this one too. Admittedly this will be a particularly cruel ending if Isaac is indeed an AT, but we still have lots of other content to look forward to and forty juicy minutes of Nintendo Direct goodness.

I don't know about you guys, but I've been listening to Castlevania soundtracks at work nonstop for the past few weeks, and my excitement for the Belmont bros and other additions is through the roof. Isaac would send me to Nirvana but I think no matter what happens tomorrow, this is shaping up to possibly be the greatest game ever made.

 

[DogManStar]

I think the Grinch is way more credible than generic insider #10 (who also steals info from others, like Simon from Stealth.) I still think it’s a big possibility that things just go wrong and he doesn’t get in, but I think the Grinch is a more likely scenario than Verge at this point.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

^THIS
And this is coming from a known pessimistic Isaac fan (No offence, Xeno).

Do NOT let these """leakers""" fool you anymore. They're desperate for attention now and will do whatever they can to milk what's left of this final hour of Smash Speculation. Besides, I bet that their upset that they realized that they've been leak baited hard and are trying hard not to let it be known.

I'll be honest, my pessimistic attitude for Isaac has changed. (I'm mostly pessimistic over F-Zero now, but I don't come on here because it hurts too much.)

But my disappointment in this thread's attitude has exceeded that of the disappointment for a lack of a new F-Zero character. ( 3 times in fact. Each becoming more disappointing than the last.)

You been given a huge plate full of info, and a good majority choose to throw in the towel.

And here I THOUGHT I was the negative one.


Again, I'm not asking you to believe the leaks or "evidence" for isaac. I'm asking to have more confidence in your golden lad.

That's all I have to say.

I'll come by once the direct is finished. Until then, try to build up confidence in yourselves.

 

[N3ON]

If Loz did anything for the community, it was exposing that Vergeben can and will hide any and all sources he doesn't necessarily believe in. The reason he hides those sources is so that his credibility doesn't tank. But if he gets all of his information from all these sources, then he may be extremely prone to being swayed one way or another, and I have speculated from the beginning that Incineroar was always intended to be this.

Yes, that is the proper procedure, you shouldn't proliferate sources you don't believe in. Loz exposed it in regards to Incineroar, but Verg was right in not moving forward with the Incineroar claim until he had vetted it thoroughly. Verg having multiple sources (as he claimed) wasn't new information, he was citing multiple sources as far back as Ridley.

Having multiple sources is significantly better than having a single source. In the professional sphere, almost all outlets have multiple sources before they run a story so they can properly vet it or withhold it until they deal with conflicting information. Verg is absolutely doing the proper protocol here for making claims, as he's working with multiple disparate sources (which he's candid about) and not running with a claim unless he's vetted it (which he's candid about - like why we haven't heard the SE character's identity). You can still be misled this way, but it's much harder than just with a single source, as all your unrelated sources would need to provide the same misinformation.

However, in this context he really shouldn't have disclose what a single source was reporting if he wasn't confident enough to endorse it, which is why Isabelle is a strange blip in the professional manner he usually employed, but as he simply acted as messenger instead of guarantor, it's not comparable to his actual claims.

You seem to be framing his method as a negative, but this is journalistic procedure. He should do it outside of Smash as well, because strangely he's far less diligent about that other stuff.

 

[Undella2]

The way it's looking in here, some of you would probably still think Isaac's not in if Veggie Bin said so even if Sakurai specifically showed off Isaac's reveal trailer, talked about Isaac's gameplay mechanics, had an interview with the Takahashi Brothers, and spent the last 20 minutes of the Direct dancing to Isaac's battle theme.

 

[Tetiro]

I wonder if anyone in yesterday's madness noticed there was no music added to the Smash website like they typically do?