Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[SundaeS]

My problem is mostly that people don't want to really discuss anything. They've already made up their minds and whatever counterargument there is just simply non-existent.

I've discussed the background with some people who don't believe in the leak and we actually came up with some real reasons why the background could be changed that are not "It's been changed before" or "It could have been changed to make characters stand out even though all the changes make 0 difference in the banner with the characters". And that was just 2-3 people discussing in a span of about 10-15 minutes. My counterpoints have been here for 3 days and no one has actually given any valid reason because no one really cares to discuss the problems on the leak because doing so is acknowledging that it actually is not as perfect as everyone seems to think.

So my point is that saying: "No one can prove this leak fake" is not accurate. I think a more accurate "No one will ever discuss anything about this leak, so we won't know if it's real or fake until we get a character reveal".

Sorry if I sound rude, I try not to be, but I try to be as blunt as possible.

Well I did watch your video along with Omni's at the time I guess I didn't really specify. It's hard for me to think of original counter-arguments, because I went around 4-chan, Reddit, ResetEra, and here on Smashboards. I will say your argument on how they could easily crop out and make a new background from photoshop was a nice argument and seeing it presented in a video was good too. I think Vaan in the big Smashboards thread has made some good points too. If anything I don't mean any hard feelings to you nor do I think anyone else does. If anything I think everyone has been very thirsty for information since this Grinch Leak.

Also regarding my opinion on GameXplain. I will say I only remember watching them closely when I was super hyped over Fire Emblem If/ Fates. They did a great analysis back then about that trailer and that practically got me hyped on the game to buy it when it came out later. Though I did remember reading they did take some analysis from reddit and other sources, but that was so long ago. Other than that I don't watch any of their other videos. The guy who did that Fire Emblem If video seems different whenever I listen to some of their other videos. If anything I'm not really sure how much people have been harassing these "insiders" and to what degree whether that be in comments or private messages.

 

[ZelDan]

Yeesh, going to work is more "UGH" than usual for me now this past week because I just KNOW I'm going to fall behind on this crazy grinch leak stuff.

Catching up on everything, I'm practically certain Isaac is in at this point. I'd be surprised if he wasn't at this point (only character I said this about before hand was Geno, and Inklings before we even knew about Smash Ultimate).

 

[Metocles]

The problem with that explanation is that Eric Brigard's job isn't to make instructions. It's to make designs. And theoretically designs should fit as it's the literal thing that will be shown, it needs to be exact to scale. You can't half *** a design then have a character cut off on the screen, that's not how that job works.

Also, the design itself IS exact to scale, I don't know where he gets it's not. Some dude tried it and it seemed off, then Vaan tried it and said that in fact it was correct and fits perfectly.

Basically this guy is assuming the papers are instructions on "How to put the paper on the display", when because of Eric's job we are all assuming it's artistic designs. If it wasn't artistic designs and instead it was instructions a lot of this leaks credibility would suffer as it wouldn't match with Eric's job or company.

Well, slow down for a second because that's breezing past quite a few things here. The design company in question prints out 2D cardboard objects to adapt into 3D models. Why are you assuming that you know Eric's entire job scope or that of his colleagues? Going from 2D into 3D, the designer still needs to be part of telling the assemblers and the printers how exactly the end product will look and how to assemble it. To be honest neither of us can even make a definitive statement on what he's responsible for because neither of us work for his company and his roles and what's to be expected of him.

Maybe read the statement again and perhaps Skyblade12 can correct me if I'm misinterpreting the statement here, but the two different images are from two completely different things entirely using this theory. The one on the left could presumably be the assembly and layout instructions. The one on the right is one of the actual end products which is clearly indicated with how everything is true to scale and is packaged.

Unfortunately you weren't around to see the ACP-PLV video that describes exactly what they do because they definitely are not what you're describing here. I don't know who's assuming that everything is just all artistic designs or why it not being artistic designs makes the leak lose credibility. That's a strange statement to make. A graphics designer's role is not limited to making art designs.

From Wikipedia: "A graphic designer is a professional within the graphic design and graphic arts industry who assembles together images, typography, or motion graphics to create a piece of design. A graphic designer creates the graphics primarily for published, printed or electronic media, such as brochures (sometimes) and advertising. They are also sometimes responsible for typesetting, illustration, user interfaces, and web design. A core responsibility of the designer's job is to present information in a way that is both accessible and memorable."

I don't know about you, but that sounds like the job role could be interpreted any number of different ways. And it could fit in both of our scenarios. I don't know why mine is less credible because of people's assumptions.

 

[Nossnitro102]

Edit: It was about Mystic. Sorry. Disregard.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I have to say, after being gone all day, I’m proud of ya’ll detectiving it up in here. There’s a reason so many people read this thread.

The pixels on Little Mac could be way too many things though, don’t forget Little Mac’s primary color is green and he’s close to Olimar and his Pikmin.

Chiroz for what it’s worth, I have listened to you. You made me realize that the leak, at the very least, is fakeable, which is definitely meaningful. Still, I definitely feel like your points have been responded in a satisfactory way (of course, whether it’s satisfactory or not depends on the person).

 

[Chiroz]

Well, slow down for a second because that's breezing past quite a few things here. The design company in question prints out 2D cardboard objects to adapt into 3D models. Why are you assuming that you know Eric's entire job scope or that of his colleagues? Going from 2D into 3D, the designer still needs to be part of telling the assemblers and the printers how exactly the end product will look and how to assemble it. To be honest neither of us can even make a definitive statement on what he's responsible for because neither of us work for his company and his roles and what's to be expected of him.

Maybe read the statement again and perhaps Skyblade12 can correct me if I'm misinterpreting the statement here, but the two different images are from two completely different things entirely using this theory. The one on the left could presumably be the assembly and layout instructions. The one on the right is one of the actual end products which is clearly indicated with how everything is true to scale and is packaged.

Unfortunately you weren't around to see the ACP-PLV video that describes exactly what they do because they definitely are not what you're describing here. I don't know who's assuming that everything is just all artistic designs or why it not being artistic designs makes the leak lose credibility. That's a strange statement to make. A graphics designer's role is not limited to making art designs.

From Wikipedia: "A graphic designer is a professional within the graphic design and graphic arts industry who assembles together images, typography, or motion graphics to create a piece of design. A graphic designer creates the graphics primarily for published, printed or electronic media, such as brochures (sometimes) and advertising. They are also sometimes responsible for typesetting, illustration, user interfaces, and web design. A core responsibility of the designer's job is to present information in a way that is both accessible and memorable."

I don't know about you, but that sounds like the job role could be interpreted any number of different ways. And it could fit in both of our scenarios. I don't know why mine is less credible because of people's assumptions.

If I understand what you're trying to tell me, you're telling me that the only one that isn't instructions is the top one, which would explain why it's "cut off" on the top, it doesn't need to match the size. I can believe that, but that means nothing to the leak overall. Whether or not those are instructions doesn't add anything to the leak, and whether or not they aren't instructions also doesn't really hurt the leak.

That image being cut off at the top is equally as weird on an official art as it would be on a fake leak, there's no reason for a mistake so obvious. That said, that post clearly is trying to imply that everything on the table is supposed to be instructions and that Eric's job is to make said instructions, or at least that's what it seems like to me, maybe I am misreading the post. And instructions like those aren't made by artists most of the time is what I was trying to say.

 

[Gioka]

The leak is definitely fakeable all right, what is odd, at least to me, is the fact that no one has come out to say it's their work. Usually when a fake leak grows that is what happens, someone comes forward and admits they did it as to take popularity and fame from the job, it happened with leaks as the Rayman leak in 4 so it seems weird that if it is indeed fake, there is no one claiming the credits since it made people fall for it and because it has outstanding thinking, planning and artistically well thought.

Now the original video is gone, which does raise some eyebrows though it could be for avoiding harassment for the company it still is an interesting fact.
I have read someone that claims the leak is real because they work at NintendoLife, saying that we would be getting a direct on November 8 with 5 characters and that Isaac was in fact planned for September and ultimately scratched for being sensitive material, but that Sakurai did drop the hint that they changed the original direct. Anyways, being now entering November, it shouldn't be long before we can confirm or deconfirm this information as well as the leak itself.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Alright guys ! it's been too long since the last stupid meme I made and you weren't asking for more so here it comes !
You'll need some Rhythm heaven knowledge to understand it though

Edit : Plz note that I really enjoy Gamexplain work and content, I just find the situation amusing and wanted to illustrate it.

 

[Smashmar2]

Just a random thing, but I found this pretty funny to listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fObHGZVRh4o

 

[Aeon Lupin]

The leak is definitely fakeable all right, what is odd, at least to me, is the fact that no one has come out to say it's their work. Usually when a fake leak grows that is what happens, someone comes forward and admits they did it as to take popularity and fame from the job, it happened with leaks as the Rayman leak in 4 so it seems weird that if it is indeed fake, there is no one claiming the credits since it made people fall for it and because it has outstanding thinking, planning and artistically well thought.

Now the original video is gone, which does raise some eyebrows though it could be for avoiding harassment for the company it still is an interesting fact.
I have read someone that claims the leak is real because they work at NintendoLife, saying that we would be getting a direct on November 8 with 5 characters and that Isaac was in fact planned for September and ultimately scratched for being sensitive material, but that Sakurai did drop the hint that they changed the original direct. Anyways, being now entering November, it shouldn't be long before we can confirm or deconfirm this information as well as the leak itself.

If the company took down the vid due to harassment, then why only the one video? People can just comment on the other videos on the channel. Why not release a statement like Marina? Or better yet, just disabling the comments.

 

[Gioka]

If the company took down the vid due to harassment, then why only the one video? People can just comment on the other videos on the channel. Why not release a statement like Marina? Or better yet, just disabling the comments.

I agree, this is why I think it is suspicious, specially because getting rid of only that is not going to make all of the discussion disappear nor would it help them avoid being contacted by people. I do think something fishy is going on, which leads me to believe that the leak is real (along with the other reasons I pointed out), marketing wise, it isn't weird that they are trying to dismiss or ignore whatever approach regarding the leak is made to anyone that has information because at this point ANYTHING is a potential confirmation / deconfirmation which would lead to a lot more depending on which of the two. They have to keep the hype up without actually saying anything until they show whatever, I think they will give a last direct with all of the designs of characters left, so they can keep the hype until then if they are careful.

 

[SundaeS]

If the company took down the vid due to harassment, then why only the one video? People can just comment on the other videos on the channel. Why not release a statement like Marina? Or better yet, just disabling the comments.

I read somewhere it was some bank/other company that was featuring French companies in a bunch of videos. So ACP-PLV would have to request to take it down as they aren't the original publishers or owners of that channel. Or something along those lines.

Wait I found it at this reddit thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9s3th7/acpplv_has_deleted_the_video_showing_their_work/

This was the original comment by c_will

"
Exactly. The video showed design schematics and work-flow patterns that mirrored what was on the desk in the Snapchat images.

Also, this was not a video ACP-PLV uploaded themselves. A French Bank did a series on French businesses, and made a promotional video on ACP-PLV. Which means that someone from ACP-PLV requested to have a video promoting their company taken down. A video from 2 years ago.

And they did this on a weekend. "

 

[SonicLink125]

FINALLY caught up! And I got to say, WOW! You guys are awesome!

There's something I wanted to mention too about how Isaac definitely was supposed to be in the end of the September Direct. Besides the theory of the earthquake related to Isaac's Venus Psynergy, and where the cutoff of Little Mac happened, Isabelle and Isaac appear next to Little Mac who is considered the first Assist Trophy upgrade and Isabelle and Isaac finally join up with him as the next ones. Shadow, Dark Samus and to a lesser extent Chrom are echo fighters so they don't count. I find that little detail wholesome and such a Sakurai thing to do.

Also, I firmly believed that Isabelle's trailer felt originally like an opening to the Direct. Especially since it didn't have the Smash Logo opening. It would have make people go crazy to think that we were finally getting a new Animal Crossing game, but then BOOM, Isabelle is in Smash. But then shows AC game. More hype! But because it happened at the end, almost everyone went, "Isabelle in Smash!"

I am completely stoked for Isaac now! If he truly is fighter #69, not only will his reveal be epic and a huge win for all Golden Sun/Isaac fans alike, but it will also be a huge win for all the Genobros, Banjobros, Rhythmbros, Mach Riderbros, Shadowbros, Kenbros, and anyone else who have hoped for these 7 despite not being their most wanted. It's going to be one epic reveal!

 

[Nossnitro102]

This gave me a good laugh.
https://twitter.com/HMKilla/status/1056011251980083201

 

[Fire Tactician]

Is it really so hard to believe that some journalists just don't want to cover certain topics? Yes, they are sponsored by Nintendo in some ways, so why risk damaging their hard-earned trust over something that is easily found elsewhere? YouTube is already super-saturated with videos about the leaks, so people are hardly losing out on anything by them not posting a video.

If this is real (or fake, actually), then they'll be talking about something that broke the law, which detracts from their usual game analysis and discussion. Barring that, look here- even in this thread, people are arguing (civilly though) about its veracity. They are known for having a generally family-friendly channel, so why make their comments section a hotbed for controversy? Heck, even personal opinion should be taken into account- at least one main member of their team is super anti-leaks, so it'd be disrespectful to go around him and support it fully.

Sure, this might signal that the leak is more real looking, but Gamexplain is under no obligation to cover it. Even though they've covered leaks in the Smash 4 cycle, they've grown as a company and are doing things more professionally now.

They don't deserve the ire they're getting. For making a smart decision business-wise. I'm sure they'll have fantastic coverage once anything official comes out.

 

[N3ON]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...nge-of-the-heart.76864/page-298#post-14326608
Things are going to get worse before they get better. -_-;

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...nge-of-the-heart.76864/page-298#post-14326608
Things are going to get worse before they get better. -_-;

Pretty much confirms my thoughts, insiders are completely lost and clueless. They're like running headless chickens atm.

 

[N3ON]

Pretty much confirms my thoughts, insiders are completely lost and clueless. They're like running headless chickens atm.

It's easy to have that opinion when there's been nothing revealed.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Is it really so hard to believe that some journalists just don't want to cover certain topics? Yes, they are sponsored by Nintendo in some ways, so why risk damaging their hard-earned trust over something that is easily found elsewhere? YouTube is already super-saturated with videos about the leaks, so people are hardly losing out on anything by them not posting a video.

If this is real (or fake, actually), then they'll be talking about something that broke the law, which detracts from their usual game analysis and discussion. Barring that, look here- even in this thread, people are arguing (civilly though) about its veracity. They are known for having a generally family-friendly channel, so why make their comments section a hotbed for controversy? Heck, even personal opinion should be taken into account- at least one main member of their team is super anti-leaks, so it'd be disrespectful to go around him and support it fully.

Sure, this might signal that the leak is more real looking, but Gamexplain is under no obligation to cover it. Even though they've covered leaks in the Smash 4 cycle, they've grown as a company and are doing things more professionally now.

They don't deserve the ire they're getting. For making a smart decision business-wise. I'm sure they'll have fantastic coverage once anything official comes out.

Every leak is illegal though, if it’s real. And if you won’t report on something to preserve your relationship with a company, you don’t deserve to call yourself a journalist. There are responsibilities, and not having companies strongarm you into silence is one of them.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

It's easy to have that opinion when there's been nothing revealed.

I just don't believe any of these guys. Because I'm sure Nintendo did a great job misleading them. And text leaks are so easy to pull off.

 

[SundaeS]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...nge-of-the-heart.76864/page-298#post-14326608
Things are going to get worse before they get better. -_-;

Welp, I hope they don't lynch him. Feels like mass hysteria for some of these people who are being harassed. >>;

Edit: grammar

 

[N3ON]

I just don't believe any of these guys. Because I'm sure Nintendo did a great job misleading them. And text leaks are so easy to pull off.

That's fine, you don't have to believe them. But people are acting very sure of how misguided the insiders must be when so far most of the ones in question have been more on-point than not.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

That's fine, you don't have to believe them. But people are acting very sure of how misguided the insiders must be when so far most of the ones in question have been more on-point than not.

oh I've always pretty much distrust them, it's not a recent thing ^^ even though recent events don't play in their favor indeed.

 

[Chiroz]

Yea, I can't believe Mystic anymore. Even if he looks like a very nice guy and normally backtracking to me is only done by credible people (backtracking before being proven wrong I mean) as it shows you can admit when you made a mistake. But backtracking so soon just means you aren't sure of anything you are saying and as such I wouldn't put too much value into anything he says from now on. That's my personal opinion.

 

[jweb23]

Has Mystic listed what he’s backtracking on or is he being vague?

 

[Chiroz]

Has Mystic listed what he’s backtracking on or is he being vague?

He basically is saying that he is going to make a list of the backtracks soon. Up until now he backtracked on the leak being 100% confirmed fake, he backtracked on being confident in Geno being in. He flip flopped on Chorus Kids being in or not, but it wasn't exactly a backtrack.



That said reading his tweets it seems like people were really harassing him as soon as he released any info at all and that some people even "sent the dogs" whatever that means. "This decision was the biggest regret in his whole life" according to him and that he can't believe just how people are treating him.

And still people wonder why Gamexplain is not covering this leak.

 

[N3ON]

oh I've always pretty much distrust them, it's not a recent thing ^^ even though recent events don't play in their favor indeed.

How so? With something actually confirmed, not the as-of-yet unknown fate of this leak.

The last time the credibility of many of these specific insiders was questioned, we got Ridley.

 

[Chiroz]

You know I've been thinking: A few "insiders" have been hinting at the leak having something wrong aside from character inclusion/exclusion. While that doesn't mean it's true (and while I don't believe the leak anyways), what if what they are referring to it's a characters design, such as Isaac maybe having his jacket in Ultimate but not in the banner.

 

[GoodGrief741]

You know I've been thinking: A few "insiders" have been hinting at the leak having something wrong aside from character inclusion/exclusion. While that doesn't mean it's true (and while I don't believe the leak anyways), what if what they are referring to it's a characters design, such as Isaac maybe having his jacket in Ultimate but not in the banner.

I don’t think any of the so-called ‘insiders’ would pay attention to something like that, but it is possible.

 

[Chiroz]

I don’t think any of the so-called ‘insiders’ would pay attention to something like that, but it is possible.

I mean, I don't think any insider himself has actually seen anything in the game. They are probably told by their sources. But I assume there are some things you can see, or at least corroborate in 5 days if you have a source that can actually get information on the game. I think a character having a different design is possible and I mentioned Isaac specifically because Banjo, Shadow, Geno, Ken and Chorus Kids basically all just have 1 design (Ken has more, but we all know Sakurai going for original Ken and not SFV Ken). Only Mach Rider and Isaac could get "updated" designs.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I was reading the resetera thread talking about the things mysticdistance mentioned about the leak.

Apparently they said one of the mural characters is an assist trophy and by process of elimination that would mean it's Mach Rider. (they said they were confident in every character aside from Banjo & Kazooie who they didn't mention but obviously aren't an assist)

That's just strange though isn't it? How on earth would a fake leaker go to so much trouble and then be so close to being accurate aside from one character?

It's easier for me to imagine mysticdistance is just mistaken.

That they apparently know that Mach Rider is an assist trophy at all makes me think it could be a form of leak bait.

 

[jweb23]

You know I've been thinking: A few "insiders" have been hinting at the leak having something wrong aside from character inclusion/exclusion. While that doesn't mean it's true (and while I don't believe the leak anyways), what if what they are referring to it's a characters design, such as Isaac maybe having his jacket in Ultimate but not in the banner.

That’s definitely possible assuming these insiders have actually seen things and aren’t just going off of hearsay.

Something I’ve always found strange with the insiders who are giving info is how they claim fake due to lack of Incineroar but I haven’t come across one claiming a character on that “leak” is not happening. At least none that I’ve come across.

This whole thing is strange...

 

[Chiroz]

I was reading the resetera thread talking about the things mysticdistance mentioned about the leak.

Apparently they said one of the mural characters is an assist trophy and by process of elimination that would mean it's Mach Rider. (they said they were confident in every character aside from Banjo & Kazooie who they didn't mention but obviously aren't an assist)

That's just strange though isn't it? How on earth would a fake leaker go to so much trouble and then be so close to being accurate aside from one character?

It's easier for me to imagine mysticdistance is just mistaken.

Could you link to the thread?

That said, at least Isaac, Geno, Shadow and Ken are expected by many people, I wouldn't call it a "crazy guess". Chorus Kids is sort of out there, but then again they were planned for Smash 4 (not that that means anything since Toon Zelda/Sheik, Plusle/Minum and Dixie are nowhere in sight).

That’s definitely possible assuming these insiders have actually seen things and aren’t just going off of hearsay.

Something I’ve always found strange with the insiders who are giving info is how they claim fake due to lack of Incineroar but I haven’t come across one claiming a character on that “leak” is not happening. At least none that I’ve come across.

This whole thing is strange...

I would suggest you watch Papageno's latest video. It shares a theory on why that could be.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Could you link to the thread?

That said, at least Isaac, Geno, Shadow and Ken are expected by many people, I wouldn't call it a "crazy guess". Chorus Kids is sort of out there, but then again they were planned for Smash 4 (not that that means anything since Toon Zelda/Sheik, Plusle/Minum and Dixie are nowhere in sight).







I would suggest you watch Papageno's latest video. It shares a theory on why that could be.

Sure. Here you go: https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...culation-a-change-of-the-heart.76864/page-300

 

[Skyblade12]

There's a massive disconnect between the "insiders" and the community. And the poor way they've handled it has caused everything to blow up in their face.

Sources are worthless without trust, and they've destroyed their trust. There's always been an element of resentment to the "we know but aren't telling" part of the insider community. Now they're asking for blind faith in their word over everything else. It's not pretty, and it will probably get worse.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Having the Pikmin carry Mr. Saturn is understandable as a gag, but why would an AT be in the mural?

 

[jweb23]

At this point we might as well all just wait for the inevitable Smash Direct. Pointless to keep going around in circles...

 

[JaidynReiman]

By the time a Direct airs at this rate we will hit 690. Damn. My joke prediction may actually be come true.

 

[Tornado_Man]

Just wanted to drop in and say I support Isaac. I've been wanting to get into Golden Sun for a while and I definitely feel like the guy would (and hopefully will) be a great addition to the roster.

 

[ZelDan]

As long as I get Isaac and Geno I'm happy, as those are the two character son the banner I've actually been wanting badly, whereas the other 5 are just "oh okay, that's fine" tier characters for me.