Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[pholtos]

Yeah I agree about the crop thing and it probably being not much, I just really felt like saying what I said a bit earlier cause of how silly it sounds.

Also that whole feeling I had in the past about Isaac and Geno possibly being the last reveals of Ultimate from way long ago is still possible.

 

[THE 6r]

Yeah, I've reconsidered the cropped Isaac theory. It just makes no sense for a character to be cropped as opposed to their layer(s) removed.

That said, the only other possibility I thought of is that they uploaded an incorrect version of the Little Mac side, one meant to match with Isaac instead of Isabelle, and then updated it to the correct one after noticing the mismatch. We know there's been errors with the website assets before (Castlevania music leak).

That said, if the Little Mac side always had the "green pixels" there to begin with, then the point is moot I guess.

^This
Nothing about anything seems to make sense anymore.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

What is interesting about the crop isn't the crop itself but its oddly accurate placement I think.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

What is interesting about the crop isn't the crop itself but it's oddly accurate placement I think.

It makes sense if Grinch leak is real, because then Isaac can go right on Hero 2 without having to worry about cutting him up later.

 

[THE TemporaryFool]

What a wild ride it has been. Team real is holding strong!

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

Man, this past week has given me so much energy. I have to admit I was starting to lose my confidence after 2+ months of radio silence and going round and round with all the box theories and whatnot. But now I'm confident that Isaac is 100% in the base game and I'm happy to see that very few people are challenging his inclusion anymore, even if other characters' fates are still up in the air. We've finally reached a critical mass of evidence, imo. If he somehow ends up being left out again it will have been the cruelest moment of Smash history ever but I would suck it up and go right back to cheering for our boy.

 

[THE 6r]

Day 6 Approachs

Grinch Leak Status: Alive

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Day 6 Approachs

Grinch Leak Status: Alive

The only thing that can stand up to the Grinch Leak is a Nintendo Direct at this point.

 

[THE TemporaryFool]

Huh? Did he actually say that? I don't remember anything like that. All I remember about online are the rules that would "promote" a more fun and safe environment for players.

I've mostly only fought on Team For Glory, and unless I was stuck with an inexperienced partner, I'd usually win. I'd go so far as to say that a majority of the opponents I faced were about on the same skill level of myself.

If it's true about what Sakurai said, then I don't see why they would do such a thing. If you weren't fighting opponents that were on your

Edit: quoted wrong post

 

[THE TemporaryFool]

Day 6 Approachs

Grinch Leak Status: Alive

Nothing shall stop this leak
Ha. ha. ha.

 

[Chiroz]

Opinions on MysticDistance? I have no idea who he is so I must remain neutral as I won't believe something from someone I have no idea is credible or not, but I'd like to hear what you guys think specifically of his credibility.

Examples about times he's been right/wrong would be appreciated.

 

[THE 6r]

Opinions on MysticDistance? I have no idea who he is so I must remain neutral as I won't believe something from someone I have no idea is credible or not, but I'd like to hear what you guys think specifically of his credibility.

Examples about times he's been right/wrong would be appreciated.

The main concern I have about him, and he touched on this, is that his sources seemed to contradict each other at times. This is a sentiment we seem to be hearing from many insiders and people who know people that there are conflicting reports about how much of this leak is true. I personally am not sure what to think of his information as, no matter what his prior track record may be, there are sources who are saying things that are in direct conflict with what he is saying. The Grinch is just a different beast entirely when it comes to leaks as there doesn't seem to be anybody on God's Green Earth that can confirm or deconfirm it other then Sakurai.

Edit:spelling

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Opinions on MysticDistance? I have no idea who he is so I must remain neutral as I won't believe something from someone I have no idea is credible or not, but I'd like to hear what you guys think specifically of his credibility.

Examples about times he's been right/wrong would be appreciated.

Literally who? Another person with 'Sources' saying that the leak is incomplete because no cat? That excuse is getting old IMO. They need some real evidence if they're going to cry foul. It's fine to say you don't believe, but if you're going to tell others not to believe at least have evidence why.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Isabelle's reveal aside it's been so long since the last major news about the game ... Leaks are nice but I want concrete now.
I actually want my vacations to end so I can focus back on work and not on Smash painful wait.

 

[Xenigma]

In this moment, with Isaac's confirmation looking more and more likely, I'm excited for what this would mean going forward. It's not simply having playable Isaac. It's that I no longer have to worry about whether each reveal will be "the one", or whether another character will "take his slot", or anything else like that. I can just be happy for everything else that comes, and further be excited when others get the characters they've long hoped for.

Obviously nothing is official yet, and maybe we end up heartbroken once again. That said, being so close to this point is exciting in and of itself. Now we just wait for that Direct announcement...

 

[Nossnitro102]

I'll make him top-tier. Just watch me.

Hold it! You'll have competition.
I too will join the battle!

 

[Chiroz]

I don't care about the Grinch Leak, MysticDistance just said what his souces have told him is the final base roster and Isaac is present in it anyways (plus most of the chars in the Grinch leak). I just want to know what his track record is in general to know how much I can trust him. So if there are examples of past times he's been right AND/OR wrong, I'd appreciate it if that's possible.

Just as a disclaimer, I'd move away from arguments like: "No one can prove it fake", because everytime someone brings up any good counter argument you guys just ignore it, at this point almost everyone trying to actually discuss the leak has given up. I don't think you guys can objectively talk about the Grinch Leak, you all just want it to be true way too bad and I understand the sentiment.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Hold it! You'll have competition.
I too will join the battle!

I'll be the #1 Isaac player in the world.

 

[Nazyrus]

Literally who? Another person with 'Sources' saying that the leak is incomplete because no cat? That excuse is getting old IMO. They need some real evidence if they're going to cry foul. It's fine to say you don't believe, but if you're going to tell others not to believe at least have evidence why.

Yeah pretty much another literally who person who pretends to be legit somehow. I have seen so many of these since the game got announced, I don't give a damn anymore. The grinch leak is the only thing in my mind now since it actually has solid stuff behind it and we can actually work with it lol, not another literally who dude's ramblings.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

I'll be the #1 Isaac player in the world.

Me becoming the best Isaac in my country sounds somewhat reasonable. Unless for some reason ZeRo comes back and mains him.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

I don't care about the Grinch Leak, MysticDistance just said what his souces have told him is the final base roster and Isaac is present in it anyways (plus most of the chars in the Grinch leak). I just want to know what his track record is in general to know how much I can trust him. So if there are examples of past times he's been right AND/OR wrong, I'd appreciate it if that's possible.

Just as a disclaimer, I'd move away from arguments like: "No one can prove it fake", because everytime someone brings up any good counter argument you guys just ignore it, at this point almost everyone trying to actually discuss the leak has given up. I don't think you guys can objectively talk about the Grinch Leak, you all just want it to be true way too bad and I understand the sentiment.

That's because the counter points are fallacies. The most common ones play on the idea that the mural would remain the same from the beginning, when there's a precedent that it doesn't. It's literally the only point against the leak. Insiders claiming it's false isn't a counterpoint either, as they can be just as easily wrong.

 

[Chiroz]

That's because the counter points are fallacies. The most common ones play on the idea that the mural would remain the same from the beginning, when there's a precedent that it doesn't. It's literally the only point against the leak. Insiders claiming it's false isn't a counterpoint either, as they can be just as easily wrong.

Except it was proven many times that there is no precedent that it does change. The background has never changed -> This is exactly what I mean when I say you guys ignore what doesn't help you.

If you want I can prove to you right now how it hasn't changed, as long as you don't ignore me when I write it down. Send me pictures of everything you think changed between released versions of the banner.

 

[Metocles]

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me about Isaac being in the September Direct is that Isabelle is fighter #68. If they had shown Isaac before her he would have been #68 and she would have been #69 - unless he were shown after the Animal Crossing segments which tied nicely into Smash, but it seems doubtful there would have been anything more to show after that. It was after all a Nintendo Direct and not a Smash-focused one.

I was one of the people that theorized an Isaac cut, especially right after having watched that direct. The entire thing felt very off tone-wise. The Animal Crossing trailer and Isabelle reveal at the end would have worked a lot better at the front end of the Direct. The most ideal place would actually be the very first thing in the Switch section. Then you close on the hypest game alive right now with a standalone traditional smash reveal. Something like that with just a character trailer is actually somewhat common from the team. They did it with K. Rool in the August smash direct, for instance.

Opinions on MysticDistance? I have no idea who he is so I must remain neutral as I won't believe something from someone I have no idea is credible or not, but I'd like to hear what you guys think specifically of his credibility.

Examples about times he's been right/wrong would be appreciated.

I only recently heard about him and I really don't like hearsay from anyone. Especially when it all just feels like too little too late. There's no way to trust someone who can't show you their evidence or claims which severely hurts all of the people who leak via message boards and twitter. It could vindicate him if he ends up being right, but there's no where go with it afterwards. Either you believe them or don't and you move on. Same reason I don't trust Vergeben.

 

[jweb23]

Opinions on MysticDistance? I have no idea who he is so I must remain neutral as I won't believe something from someone I have no idea is credible or not, but I'd like to hear what you guys think specifically of his credibility.

Examples about times he's been right/wrong would be appreciated.

Yeah I’m in the same boat with you. At least it appears his sources are different from PapaGeno’s source as that source claims the characters on the leak are legit but doesn’t understand why Incineroar isn’t there.

I guess we can prepare to rejoice for our Golden Boy as well as Geno. The other’s fates are still up in the air.

 

[Nossnitro102]

Uhm, guys?

View attachment 173000
I have literally every single Ace attorney cornered themes playing in my head right now lol

Unlimited Corners!

And I NEVER noticed this. Ugh..
Edit: Oops. I caught up a little more now. RIP. Enjoy the music though cause it's still fitting for this whole debacle.

 

[Chiroz]

I only recently heard about him and I really don't like hearsay from anyone. Especially when it all just feels like too little too late. There's no way to trust someone who can't show you their evidence or claims which severely hurts all of the people who leak via message boards and twitter. It could vindicate him if he ends up being right, but there's no where go with it afterwards. Either you believe them or don't and you move on. Same reason I don't trust Vergeben.

I agree, which is why I think the only way I would "believe" a text leak is by knowing the "history" of the leaker. If someone is proven to be right over and over again, I'd be inclined to believe them, but I have no idea what MysticDistance's track record looks like

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Except it was proven many times that there is no precedent that it does change. The background has never changed -> This is exactly what I mean when I say you guys ignore what doesn't help you.

If you want I can prove to you right now how it hasn't changed, as long as you don't ignore me when I write it down. Send me pictures of everything you think changed between released versions of the banner.

Even though Raykz, because it never changed in the footage we got doesn't mean it never has / will at some point or some circumstances. It's just not decisive evidence in our eyes.
Someone made a great post on here on the reason why the footage in the leak might be different.
Also the fact there is so many overwhelming points in favor of this leak make this one kinda weak in comparison tbh.
We're not ignoring you and I think everyone here has listen to it and is aware of it, now it's up to each of us to decide we want to give it credit or not.

 

[pholtos]

Except it was proven many times that there is no precedent that it does change. The background has never changed -> This is exactly what I mean when I say you guys ignore what doesn't help you.

If you want I can prove to you right now how it hasn't changed, as long as you don't ignore me when I write it down. Send me pictures of everything you think changed between released versions of the banner.

Which background are we referring to, the one for the sky mural which will be far away or the one for the bracelet which will be super tiny?

 

[Chiroz]

Even though Raykz, because it never changed in the footage we got doesn't mean it never has / will at some point or some circumstances. It's just not decisive evidence in our eyes.

The problem is that the banner only changed on spots that have never been seen before in any released banner and if the leak is real and this is the final banner, will never actually be seen in any released banner. Even more curiously, all the spots that we can see have stayed exactly the same.

So the narrative is at some point Nintendo decided to waste thousands of dollars and art power (1 week of salary for 1 artist is at least 1000 dollars) to change something that will never be viewed by anyone but the developers themselves. But they also made sure that there was no change whatsoever to any of the actual areas people will see, 0, none. Does that make any sense?

I understand that that doesn't mean the leak is fake, but no one ever tried to discuss why this could be a thing. Instead everyone ignored it and started to try to invalidate the argument by throwing out random points like this one:

Which background are we referring to, the one for the sky mural which will be far away or the one for the bracelet which will be super tiny?

Both of them are identical and have the exact same changes from the official one. And no, it's not because it's tiny, no it's not because it's blurry. They both have the same missing elements and it's big enough elements where no matter the compression/blurriness/decoloration we would be able to tell. This has already been said by about 4 different digital artists already.

 

[THE 6r]

I don't care about the Grinch Leak, MysticDistance just said what his souces have told him is the final base roster and Isaac is present in it anyways (plus most of the chars in the Grinch leak). I just want to know what his track record is in general to know how much I can trust him. So if there are examples of past times he's been right AND/OR wrong, I'd appreciate it if that's possible.

Just as a disclaimer, I'd move away from arguments like: "No one can prove it fake", because everytime someone brings up any good counter argument you guys just ignore it, at this point almost everyone trying to actually discuss the leak has given up. I don't think you guys can objectively talk about the Grinch Leak, you all just want it to be true way too bad and I understand the sentiment.

Alright, I've been doing a little digging and what I have found is that this guy, Ryan Auerhan, is a translator in the industry. Notably, he began working on a translation of Shin Megami Tensai If in August. He is a writer for a few websites in the gaming world and most of the things he does is related to Persona, SMT, and Kingdom Hearts (here is a link to articles he has written for Persona Central). I tried to visit his personal website, but it appears he ether lost the IP or misconfigured it.

As for his sources he says on the thread he posted on Twitter that he tries to stay away from fighting game leaks and leakers and that his sources are "grouped up". IDK what either one of those means. In his writing, this appears to be the case. He has never gone into the realm of Smash before from what I can find, so he has no prior track record when it comes to Smash. Due to him working as a free-lance translator, he tends to be very vague about his sources, but he claims that some of them are "in plain sight".

TBH, it's hard trying to find things not on his Twitter. The only other thing of note I've managed to other then what I've mentioned above is that he's complied a translation of Phantasy Star Online 2.

I'll do some more digging and post my results if I find anything, but hopefully this has been at least a little helpful.

Edit: Just checked his Twitter again and he says he's currently writing responses to all the questions he's getting. So, if anybody's interested, check back on his Twitter soon.

 

[Chiroz]

Alright, I've been doing a little digging and what I have found is that this guy, Ryan Auerhan, is a translator in the industry. Notably, he began working on a translation of Shin Megami Tensai If in August. He is a writer for a few websites in the gaming world and most of the things he does is related to Persona, SMT, and Kingdom Hearts (here is a link to articles he has written for Persona Central). I tried to visit his personal website, but it appears he ether lost the IP or misconfigured it.

As for his sources he says on the thread he posted on Twitter that he tries to stay away from fighting game leaks and leakers and that his sources are "grouped up". IDK what either one of those means. In his writing, this appears to be the case. He has never gone into the realm of Smash before from what I can find, so he has no prior track record when it comes to Smash. Due to him working as a free-lance translator, he tends to be very vague about his sources, but he claims that some of them are "in plain sight".

TBH, it's hard trying to find things not on his Twitter. The only other thing of note I've managed to other then what I've mentioned above is that he's complied a translation of Phantasy Star Online 2.

I'll do some more digging and post my results if I find anything, but hopefully this has been at least a little helpful.

Interesting. I'll keep this in note and try to look for information on him myself. Being a translator does mean he meets people in the industry and probably has friends who have friends and such. That doesn't mean anything he says is true though.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

At this point I'm almost sure Isaac is in with all the crazy "evidence" we've obtained last week (it's already Monday here).

Do you guys think we will reach 600 supporters and 30K replies when he's announced?

 

[iam8bit]

Except it was proven many times that there is no precedent that it does change. The background has never changed -> This is exactly what I mean when I say you guys ignore what doesn't help you.

Can't the same be said of Team Fake?

You've been pretty absent since the new information has surfaced yourself. Not that I want to read a completely speculative list of "completely unbiased" reasons of why that YouTube channel would remove the video, mind you. No offense meant.

And sure, we might be too eager with every new detail that points to the leak being real. Can you blame us? We've been waiting for Isaac to join Smash literally for years. So yeah, glad you understand that and avoided arguing in this thread. It was completely unproductive anyway.

 

[Chiroz]

What makes me hope he is in is that almost every "leak" we get has him in it. If at least 1 leak turns out to be true, whichever one it is, then Isaac is in, lol.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

GameXplain can be added to the list of people making this worse with their response. I thought addressing the video takedown for the company would be the worst of it, but GameXplain objectively have no reason not to cover this like usual.

When you’re a channel and group that prides yourself on obsessing over details and speculation, and something like this leak shows up just ripe for you to work with, you don’t just pass that up. And if you do, of course people are going to be suspicious of your intent in blatantly dismissing it. Even if you spend a hour condemning the leak, you’ve thrown your hat in and said hey, no, this is fake because of our analysis. But nope, they can’t be bothered to make a video.

Again, we have a situation that reflects poorly on GameXplain no matter how they approach it.

They’re either devaluing their own content by refusing to do further analysis and showing that maybe they don’t care as much about details as they think/are actively choosing to step outside of a huge speculation issue because they feel like it.

-OR-

They have insider knowledge that complicated the whole situation. If they have official knowledge from Nintendo, they gain credibility at the cost of their reputation as speculationists. They already magically predicted way too much for September, and this will only worsen things. People will over analyze their speculation and they’ll never shake the insider expectation unless they throw someone under the bus.

The other possibility being Nintendo intervened and said not to cover the leak. This means that now they’re more concerned with being legitimate in the eyes of Nintendo than their fans or at the very least, are prone to fall under the pressure of the Big N. Which again, does nothing good for their reputation as a channel. Not to mention feeds the fires of the leak even more.


Seriously, twice in one day we’ve seen people choose the exact opposite of how to deal with this situation that only adds fuel to the fires of the leak. All either organization was proceed as normal and there would be no suspicion or additional fervor, yet they’ve chosen to do the opposite.

If real it’s ****ty damage control attempts from Nintendo, if fake, these organizations have acted in idiotic ways that stoke the fires of the leak more and more. Just how the hell two major players have managed to mishandle the situation is absolutely hilarious.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

If real it’s ****ty damage control attempts from Nintendo, if fake, these organizations have acted in idiotic ways that stoke the fires of the leak more and more. Just how the hell two major players have managed to mishandle the situation is absolutely hilarious.

I think it is about Nintendo, just this once, wanting to be the first one to release hype inducing Smash Brothers news to audiences first.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Chiroz yup I watched your videos and I agree with you. But what more can be said about it ? That is a point against the leak I keep it in a corner of my mind and probably the reason why I keep a reasonable skeptical approach. Still not enough to kill the hype !

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

So, if Isaac joins the fray, do you think he will be in his adult bearded appearance or as his younger self?
I personally prefer older Isaac with his badass beard and longcoat. Another possibility is that they add adult Isaac as a default and young Isaac as an alt, but considering that the adult version is taller it could conflict with his proportions. Doubt that it would become a real problem though.

 

[Chiroz]

Can't the same be said of Team Fake?

You've been pretty absent since the new information has surfaced yourself. Not that I want to read a completely speculative list of "completely unbiased" reasons of why that YouTube channel would remove the video, mind you. No offense meant.

I mean I've been absent because there is nothing for me to add to the discussion. Everytime I'd try giving objective arguments you guys would attack me, and worse of all, I didn't feel like anyone was actually listening anyways (aside from a few).

I don't believe in #TeamFake or #TeamReal. I like to analyze data as objectively as possible and while I myself believe the leak to be fake, I won't ever claim it to be fake objectively.

I myself have never ignored any good argument for the leak. If you think I have then point it out to me and I will take my team to read through it carefully, I try to be as objective as I can at all times.

GameXplain can be added to the list of people making this worse with their response. I thought addressing the video takedown for the company would be the worst of it, but GameXplain objectively have no reason not to cover this like usual.

When you’re a channel and group that prides yourself on obsessing over details and speculation, and something like this leak shows up just ripe for you to work with, you don’t just pass that up. And if you do, of course people are going to be suspicious of your intent in blatantly dismissing it. Even if you spend a hour condemning the leak, you’ve thrown your hat in and said hey, no, this is fake because of our analysis. But nope, they can’t be bothered to make a video.

Again, we have a situation that reflects poorly on GameXplain no matter how they approach it.

Dude, anyone who believes the leak is fake gets ****faced. They get negative comments and a bad like to dislike ratio. People start spreading bad word of mouth about them. There is a logical reason why you WOULDN'T want to cover this leak. It isn't about "insider info", it's about your overall standing with the community. Little did they know though that even keeping silent wasn't a good idea, because no matter what you do somehow you're always the bad guy.

Even before they went silent various youtubers had already talked about how they "would stop talking about the leak" because everyone kept hammering on them. I myself stopped coming to this thread until this new information surfaced from another leak that's not this one.

 

[KMDP]

I'll be the #1 Isaac player in the world.

No.

It shall be I who takes their place at the summit!