Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[N3ON]

Fwiw each character would be a layer on the mural, meaning if any was removed, it wouldn't leave pixel remnants.

 

[THE 6r]

Well that's interesting, because that might actually be evidence against the leak.
Because there's no way all those characters wouldve been revealed before.



They dont seem to reorder them at all though.

1. What definitively makes you say that? Perhaps there was a brief Smash Segment with Isaac and Geno, which would've left 5 characters for the next Direct. AKA, the same amount as the August Direct.

2. It would make sense to reorder them so that nobody got suspicious. Having missing blog posts would only arouse people to come to various conclusions.

 

[Teeb147]

Okay, mom. May I have some proof, though?

It's in the post I put, regarding the blog numbers:

Well.. I dont think it'll make sense for me, since it could just as easily be an error on the side in general, rather than caused by isaac somehow.

But anyway, I think there's better information to kind of discount that Isaac was going to be revealed at the time, and it has to do with the blog numbers, as someone brought it up and I think it might help put this to rest.
Here's just what I saw and copied. If someone has a better site or post for this, let me know, but anyway, here:

"
On 9/6 in Japan, the thursday before the delay, post number 133 - Alolan Exeggutor was made. As you remember, there was no post on the day of the delay. On the following monday, it jumped to 142 - Bowser, then jumped back down to 138 - Toon Link. This seemed sporadic and random at first, but it actually makes complete sense. This is due to the fact that almost every single post number between 133 and 150 has been posted now, so we can see what the original schedule was! Judging by the fact that the stages posted on the same day as songs, wednesdays in Japan, we get this original schedule:


9/6 Thursday.) 133 exeggutor

9/7 Friday.) Without the delay: [134 (US) &] 135 isabelle cgi trailer

9/10 Monday.) 136 and 137 Isabelle blog post and memory

9/11 Tuesday.) 138 and 139 toon link blog post and memory

9/12 Wednesday.) 140 animal crossing theme + 141 summit

9/13 Thursday.) 142 Bowser

9/14 Friday.) 143 - ???

9/17 Monday.) 144 - Ganondorf.

9/18 Tuesday.) 145 Shovel knight.

9/19 Wednesday,) 146 Pikmin Theme + 147 Onett

9/20 Thursday.) 148 and 149 Ryu's memory

9/21 Friday.) 150 - Pikachu, 151 - Red and blue memory.

"

So you can see, with the numbers showing back up, there isn't really a way that Isaac would've been announced and had his memory blog post too.
-He wouldn't have been a revealed fighter along with isabelle. (with what we know of the numbers)

I think that the item showing up in the wendy's trailer is much better evidence for being a fighter than this new image theory.

 

[SundaeS]

Normally i'd call the crop job circumstantial at best. And seeing people harass Jon from gamexplain is really upsetting. Cause whether or not he has legit info, he's still a really good guy who deserves respect. However...as much as I despise speculation based on tragedy. I have to agree. Being exactly where little mac was is decisive evidence in favor of the leak. And it also explains Sakurai's comment from the time, and why the ABSOLUTE need for the direct to be delayed was present.

That having been said. Team real has more points now than ever. And it's ironic how little mac in relation to a blond RPG protagonist is once again a decisive factor in a smash leak.

I understand where you are coming from. I dismissed it too to an extent, because in my mind between the importance of video games and natural disasters, usually, natural disasters win out. I thought the theories were a bit in bad taste even if there was evidence and speculation. I never really held or even now hold it as the biggest piece of evidence for Isaac. Though I won't lie even if it's in the back of my head this all feels like the craziest coincidences to pop up from the Grinch leak speculation.

 

[Fire Tactician]

Well that's interesting, because that might actually be evidence against the leak.
Because there's no way all those characters wouldve been revealed before.



They dont seem to renumber them at all though. Only reordered based on events or changing decisions.

What I mean to say is that if the posts were in the order 133 (the day before the Direct), 136 (the next Monday), 137, 138, 139, 134 (Isabelle), 135 (Isabelle Memory), then maybe Isabelle was always going to be shown off before Isaac as 134 and that Isaac would have been saved till the next week. Isaac very well may have been 137 and 138, but they could have moved whatever was behind it up to avoid suspicion, while leaving Isabelle with 134 and 135 because they wanted to play it off as she was the only thing that was intended.

I'm sure they've caught on with us catching the numbers by now, so that seems like something they'd be aware of. If they did skip two other numbers the next week and we got no Isaac, we'd have been going mad knowing that he was likely removed.

Edit- I used fake numbers because I didn't have time to go back and find the actual ones.

 

[KoopaSaki]

All I can say is the wait for the next smash direct is going to be HARD. I am on team real all the way on this leak and am thankful for it bringing up the smash communities speculation after such a drought of two months and a half, but as soon as we find out the next couple newcomers, that's gonna reveal the truth. I am just so ready for the next two weeks. BRING ON THE GOLDEN BOI! I have waited for 10 years since the age of 12.

 

[Teeb147]

1. What definitively makes you say that? Perhaps there was a brief Smash Segment with Isaac and Geno, which would've left 5 characters for the next Direct. AKA, the same amount as the August Direct.

2. It would make sense to reorder them so that nobody got suspicious. Having missing blog posts would only arouse people to come to various conclusions.

If there's so many cuts or errors in the character banner, then doesn't that just mean there's errors?
If it was just 1 or two, then yeah, ... but so many? And that isaac and geno and more wouldve been revealed at the time of the direct is pushing it, dont you think?

As for the blog post numbers, it seems like they've been ignore them, but you're right it's possible. And to the others that brought it up, youre right I dont discount it's possible, but it doesnt seem consistent with how theyve done things.
There's other places where they just left out numbers entirely (possibly just decisions to change them around), so I'm not sure they would bother with it here.

 

[N3ON]

You would need, at minimum, what, two blog posts for a newcomer?

If there aren't two unaccounted for in those around the Direct, it's hard to put weight in the theory tbh. The order likely gets planned far in advance, and switching the labeling doesn't make much sense considered we're not even really supposed to be privy to it in the first place.

 

[THE 6r]

All I can say is the wait for the next smash direct is going to be HARD. I am on team real all the way on this leak and am thankful for it bringing up the smash communities speculation after such a drought of two months and a half, but as soon as we find out the next couple newcomers, that's gonna reveal the truth. I am just so ready for the next two weeks. BRING ON THE GOLDEN BOI! I have waited for 10 years since the age of 12.

I feel you. If the next trailer is one of the 5 uniques, then the Internet will collapse.

 

[Xenigma]

So what do you make of the blog numbers then?

Toon Link got moved, probably. We have no reason to believe they couldn't have reuploaded the assets under new numbers, which means Toon Link may not have been intended for posts 138 and 139 initially. Heck, if 134 was never filled, it's possible that was supposed to be the Isaac trailer, which further would have meant that Isabelle was intended to be 138/139 (since her trailer would have been second) and Isaac was originally 136/137. It certainly makes more sense than leaving that three post gap open, which would have been a clear signal to speculators already tracking the numbers that a character had been removed from the Direct.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Isabelle is definitely celebrating something on this mural... something or ... someone ! And who was supposed to appear alongside her before the earthquake mess happened ?
Coincidence ? I ... think .. NOT !

Don’t mind me I lost my sanity a few leaks ago

 

[THE 6r]

Sidenote: Today's blog is

 

[Teeb147]

Toon Link got moved, probably. We have no reason to believe they couldn't have reuploaded the assets under new numbers, which means Toon Link may not have been intended for posts 138 and 139 initially. Heck, if 134 was never filled, it's possible that was supposed to be the Isaac trailer, which further would have meant that Isabelle was intended to be 138/139 (since her trailer would have been second) and Isaac was originally 136/137. It certainly makes more sense than leaving that three post gap open, which would have been a clear signal to speculators already tracking the numbers that a character had been removed from the Direct.

Yes but that seems unlikely since they dont renumber the blog posts, they just move them around, which is why the numbers can be quite all over the place.
Isabelle was 134 and she showed up in the wrong place because of the delay, and that continues on with other ones.

What I mean to say is that if the posts were in the order 133 (the day before the Direct), 136 (the next Monday), 137, 138, 139, 134 (Isabelle), 135 (Isabelle Memory), then maybe Isabelle was always going to be shown off before Isaac as 134 and that Isaac would have been saved till the next week. Isaac very well may have been 137 and 138, but they could have moved whatever was behind it up to avoid suspicion, while leaving Isabelle with 134 and 135 because they wanted to play it off as she was the only thing that was intended.

I'm sure they've caught on with us catching the numbers by now, so that seems like something they'd be aware of. If they did skip two other numbers the next week and we got no Isaac, we'd have been going mad knowing that he was likely removed.

Edit- I used fake numbers because I didn't have time to go back and find the actual ones.

The numbers dont skip based on weekends. They're in order. (maybe that wasnt part of your point tho)
But yes i understand it's technically possible to renumber ones like the toon link one, etc. I just dont think they would've done that (based on what we've seen) ;p Always posisble though, yeah.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Isabelle is definitely celebrating something on this mural... something or ... someone ! And who was supposed to appear alongside her before the earthquake mess happened ?
Coincidence ? I ... think .. NOT !

Don’t mind me I lost my sanity a few leaks ago

Or, she's just celebrating the simple pleasures of life.

That's a fun theory though.

Edit: ooops double posted, gonna edit my last one.

Mom... why are you doing this to me?

 

[Xenigma]

Yes but that seems unlikely since they dont renumber the blog posts, they just move them around, which is why the numbers can be quite all over the place.
Isabelle was 134 and she showed up in the wrong place because of the delay, and that continues on with many other ones.

But that's still just speculation on our part. We have evidence they will post out of order, sure, but we can't really prove if they would reupload different content under previously assigned numbers if they had to remove 3 posts of content as would have been necessary for Isaac. It's part of why I stopped paying attention to the numbers to be honest: they might mean something, or they might be us seeing patterns that don't actually exist/matter (see music theory in particular).

 

[Teeb147]

But that's still just speculation on our part. We have evidence they will post out of order, sure, but we can't really prove if they would reupload different content under previously assigned numbers if they had to remove 3 posts of content as would have been necessary for Isaac. It's part of why I stopped paying attention to the numbers to be honest: they might mean something, or they might be us seeing patterns that don't actually exist/matter (see music theory in particular).

I know. I'm just saying they don't seem to renumber them. (not that it's impossible)
And some numbers still havent shown up. (dunno when they're saving them for..)

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Or, she's just celebrating the simple pleasures of life.

That's a fun theory though.

Way too farfetched ! Definitely a #teamfake level of argument !

 

[Fire Tactician]

Sidenote: Today's blog is

WAIT!

ZERO SUIT SAMUS... ZSS USES A WHIP... BANJO IS AN ANIMAL THAT CAN BE WHIPPED... CHORUS KIDS HAD TO BE WHIPPED INTO SHAPE TO SING WELL... PEOPLE WISH IN WISHING WELLS AND ON STARS AND GENO IS ASSOCIATED WITH STARS... SHADOW STARS IN HIS OWN HIT GAME... KEN CAN HIT CARS... ISAAC'S DJINNS ARE ABOUT THE SIZE OF A LARGE CAN.

Guys... I think Isaac is in the game.

 

[THE 6r]

Now What? Is there anything that we can possibly use to validate one side or the other?

 

[Xenigma]

I know. I'm just saying they don't seem to renumber them. (not that it's impossible)
And some numbers still havent shown up. (dunno when they're saving them for..)

Yep, that's the other part that bugs me. If they're arbitrary enough that they're willing to skip numbers altogether (due to rescheduling I'd guess), it's difficult to make any solid theories. Thankfully the spoiler season is short enough that it's easier to just kind of take it as it comes, and it sure seems like a Smash Direct should be imminent.

 

[Teeb147]

Now What? Is there anything that we can possibly use to validate one side or the other?

I think this is yet another one of those cases where we can't tell for sure.

But if you add the Growth item, it still looks really good for Isaac regardless of not knowing if the leaks and theories are true.

Anyway, I've probably debated enough for now, sorry for the tyrade.
I'm quite content with dreaming of what could be based on the item.

And other than that, looking forward to seeing the truth (nintendo plz)

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

Ok so here’s my theory with something in particular. I won’t tag anyone because I want to get this out quickly and I don’t remember who brought it up.

I’ll start with stating that, while it has been some time, I’ve taken classes in graphic design. So I’m gonna try and apply a lot of that here.

Issue “Each fighter is their own layer so why would these graphical inconsistencies be here?”: False. Given what we can gather, it appears that, especially with the layer complexity of the EOIH banner and it’s overlapping, it’s more likely that pieces of characters are their own layer rather than the entire character. And these layers may also have bits of other characters. Like one massive puzzle board and these layers are interchangeable puzzle pieces. But what happens when a wrench is thrown in and you put in a piece that was supposed to go with a few other pieces. You get massive inconsistencies like what we have here. Nintendo tried there best to hide them. And it would’ve worked too if it weren’t for the Grinch.

So my theory is that the fighters are not each their own layer that they move around. Rather they have interchangeable layers. And putting Isabelle in when there were meant to be other fighters present screwed with the image big time.

This is, however, just speculation. I’m not 100% sure, of course. I could be completely wrong. It has been some time, but I remember a lot from my time in graphic design and this is one thing of many that I learned. It’s a bit of a process and requires a **** load of layers but it’s used to help with even more complex layering that would otherwise be impossible.

 

[Nazyrus]

Reminder that the grinch leak is alive and well and whatever this glitchy thing on the website does not affect it negatively in any way or form. Stay hype, We are finally in the last week of October and start of November at the same time!

 

[Pwnapplez]

Ja Rule read the Grinch, who has beef with Ja Rule? Curtis James ****ing Jackson III, known professionally as 50 Cent.

Guys...I was team neutral till coming across this.

The connection is to real!

 

[Teeb147]

Ok so here’s my theory with something in particular. I won’t tag anyone because I want to get this out quickly and I don’t remember who brought it up.

I’ll start with stating that, while it has been some time, I’ve taken classes in graphic design. So I’m gonna try and apply a lot of that here.

Issue “Each fighter is their own layer so why would these graphical inconsistencies be here?”: False. Given what we can gather, it appears that, especially with the layer complexity of the EOIH banner and it’s overlapping, it’s more likely that pieces of characters are their own layer rather than the entire character. And these layers may also have bits of other characters. Like one massive puzzle board and these layers are interchangeable puzzle pieces. But what happens when a wrench is thrown in and you put in a piece that was supposed to go with a few other pieces. You get massive inconsistencies like what we have here. Nintendo tried there best to hide them. And it would’ve worked too if it weren’t for the Grinch.

So my theory is that the fighters are not each their own layer that they move around. Rather they have interchangeable layers. And putting Isabelle in when there were meant to be other fighters present screwed with the image big time.

This is, however, just speculation. I’m not 100% sure, of course. I could be completely wrong. It has been some time, but I remember a lot from my time in graphic design and this is one thing of many that I learned. It’s a bit of a process and requires a **** load of layers but it’s used to help with even more complex layering that would otherwise be impossible.

That would be super bizarre for professional artists to mess up the layers at nintendo. I'm gonna say that it's super unlikely. They know how to use photoshop better than that lol. Not to say there couldn't be many layers to making one character, but that entire character becomes a layer object of its own. (not that I couldn't be wrong on them messing up)
Also, someone pointed out that the green bits couldve just been due to image compression, as they showed.

aight, enough for now from me. time to go. hf.

 

[Confirmation]

https://twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/1056720637190987783?s=20

We got the insiders, Bros.

 

[MeleeMan]

I've wanted this for so long!! Hard to believe it might actually be happening. God I hope this leak is real.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

https://twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/1056720637190987783?s=20

We got the insiders, Bros.

I thought this guy was going to stop talking about Smash. Or was it another one?
But if he's right I'll welcome our Lloyd bros with open arms.

 

[Pyzlnar]

Yeah no, I'm gonna go ahead and say the artifacts near little mac and olimar are just complete nonsense.

Here's a tweet from Smash JP on Sept 13 showing Isabelle being added to the banner with no artifacts on the image.
https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1040369989742604288


Like this user pointed out the banner on the website is actually not one, but several images being cut out and loaded into the site.
What you guys are seeing as artifacts is the result of updating an image under the same name and something caching a previous image, that does not match with the new one that loaded up.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...dium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=smashbros

If nintendo had one mess up, was to not fingerprint asset names that they were going to update semi-frequently.

Also, the argument that a character is multilayered and theyd forget to hide something... uuuh no. Just not.
Even if that were the case I see absolutely no reason of why they wouldn't do something as simple as group the layers together per character when they are aware from the beginning that they are needed to be moved around, hidden and displayed A LOT.

That's kinda the main reason of why the Grinch leak has so much validity in the first place. Someone with the original assets has absolutely no issue hiding and moving around characters, where as modifying an "exported" image seamlessly is way way waaaay harder.

Chillax people, we already have good leads, don't try to see things where there are none.
We're not that desperate... right?

 

[9Blades]

Well it sure seems I missed a lot today, didn't I?
Decided to bring back this classic icon I haven't used in years. (probably not since Smash 4) I do want to be hype, but I feel like that'll lead to despair if somehow it doesn't happen.

 

[TappyBat]

is this it? It’s happening?

 

[Mr Gentleman]

WAIT!

ZERO SUIT SAMUS... ZSS USES A WHIP... BANJO IS AN ANIMAL THAT CAN BE WHIPPED... CHORUS KIDS HAD TO BE WHIPPED INTO SHAPE TO SING WELL... PEOPLE WISH IN WISHING WELLS AND ON STARS AND GENO IS ASSOCIATED WITH STARS... SHADOW STARS IN HIS OWN HIT GAME... KEN CAN HIT CARS... ISAAC'S DJINNS ARE ABOUT THE SIZE OF A LARGE CAN.

Guys... I think Isaac is in the game.

So close.... but I don't think Shadow's game was a hit. IT'S ALL A LIE! Nobody is in the game! smash bros doesn't even exist! it's all an elaborate conspiracy!

 

[FantastiqueFran]

Wow, this thread went full super-sleuth while I was gone and the updates just keep getting better and better!

I can't help but to feel like the big YouTubers and Nintendo-centric news outlets are either ignoring this leak or denouncing this leak are on damage control. GameExplain, in particular, caught my interest as they haven't addressed the Grinch leak in full detail. Either they are dead-set that their inside sources are right or they aren't in a position to comment about the leak.

Tinfoil-Hat Time: Maybe Nintendo paid these guys to calm the storm or they paid the "insiders" to spread false information regarding Incineroar as bait to keep everyone occupied.

Oh my god, this thread now has a Beatles reference in it's title.

About darn time!

 

[THE 6r]

https://twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/1056720637190987783?s=20

We got the insiders, Bros.

This begs an obvious question: Now What?

There are so many unanswered questions I have about the information presented here:
1. Incineroar and Lloyd, why aren't they on the banner? I hear many "insiders" claim various characters, however what we don't known is why they wouldn't put the full roster on the banner. Are these characters DLC? I don't think he has the answer to ether one of those questions, but they have to be debated

2. Nobody can seem to confirm the banner itself. That's a bit odd. Why is that? One would think that if you knew who was left that you could confirm or deconfirm the banner fairly quick.

3. Contradictory sources. How is everyone being so contradictory? This makes a lot of insider knowledge completely worthless as there's always somebody who denies what a another person claims.

Man, is this chaos or what?

This Plot just keeps thickening and thickening

 

[jweb23]

https://twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/1056720637190987783?s=20

We got the insiders, Bros.

Very interesting. I’m not familiar with this insider, does anyone know how good their track record is?

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

https://twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/1056720637190987783?s=20

We got the insiders, Bros.

That explains why Emily Rogers alluded to Golden Sun in the same thread as her post alluding to the new luigi's mansion that was eventually announced. Along with why the vast majority of leaker's and content creators in the know talked about Banjo, and Chorus Kids, but utterly failed to talk about Isaac in meaningful capacity.

Isaac's new likelihood rating from me. 95%.

 

[Icana]

That explains why Emily Rogers alluded to Golden Sun in the same thread as her post alluding to the new luigi's mansion that was eventually announced. Along with why the vast majority of leaker's and content creators in the know talked about Banjo, and Chorus Kids, but utterly failed to talk about Isaac in meaningful capacity.

Isaac's new likelihood rating from me. 95%.

I can't find Emily's allusion you're referring to, but regardless, 95%, huh? Where's that thread where we rated characters' likely hood? I'm pretty sure most had Isaac pegged under 20%.

If this pans out this is a huuuge dream come true. Is it actually happening? Is Isaac actually joining the fight!!??

 

[?!?!?!]

https://twitter.com/MysticDistance/status/1056720637190987783?s=20

We got the insiders, Bros.

Isaac and Geno, 4 years ago I thought they would never make it. Now they're so close

 

[iam8bit]

Yeah no, I'm gonna go ahead and say the artifacts near little mac and olimar are just complete nonsense.

Here's a tweet from Smash JP on Sept 13 showing Isabelle being added to the banner with no artifacts on the image.
https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1040369989742604288


Like this user pointed out the banner on the website is actually not one, but several images being cut out and loaded into the site.
What you guys are seeing as artifacts is the result of updating an image under the same name and something caching a previous image, that does not match with the new one that loaded up.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...dium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=smashbros

If nintendo had one mess up, was to not fingerprint asset names that they were going to update semi-frequently.

Also, the argument that a character is multilayered and theyd forget to hide something... uuuh no. Just not.
Even if that were the case I see absolutely no reason of why they wouldn't do something as simple as group the layers together per character when they are aware from the beginning that they are needed to be moved around, hidden and displayed A LOT.

That's kinda the main reason of why the Grinch leak has so much validity in the first place. Someone with the original assets has absolutely no issue hiding and moving around characters, where as modifying an "exported" image seamlessly is way way waaaay harder.

Chillax people, we already have good leads, don't try to see things where there are none.
We're not that desperate... right?

Yeah, I've reconsidered the cropped Isaac theory. It just makes no sense for a character to be cropped as opposed to their layer(s) removed.

That said, the only other possibility I thought of is that they uploaded an incorrect version of the Little Mac side, one meant to match with Isaac instead of Isabelle, and then updated it to the correct one after noticing the mismatch. We know there's been errors with the website assets before (Castlevania music leak).

That said, if the Little Mac side always had the "green pixels" there to begin with, then the point is moot I guess.

 

[Nazyrus]

Yeah no, I'm gonna go ahead and say the artifacts near little mac and olimar are just complete nonsense.

Here's a tweet from Smash JP on Sept 13 showing Isabelle being added to the banner with no artifacts on the image.
https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1040369989742604288


Like this user pointed out the banner on the website is actually not one, but several images being cut out and loaded into the site.
What you guys are seeing as artifacts is the result of updating an image under the same name and something caching a previous image, that does not match with the new one that loaded up.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...dium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=smashbros

If nintendo had one mess up, was to not fingerprint asset names that they were going to update semi-frequently.

Also, the argument that a character is multilayered and theyd forget to hide something... uuuh no. Just not.
Even if that were the case I see absolutely no reason of why they wouldn't do something as simple as group the layers together per character when they are aware from the beginning that they are needed to be moved around, hidden and displayed A LOT.

That's kinda the main reason of why the Grinch leak has so much validity in the first place. Someone with the original assets has absolutely no issue hiding and moving around characters, where as modifying an "exported" image seamlessly is way way waaaay harder.

Chillax people, we already have good leads, don't try to see things where there are none.
We're not that desperate... right?

100% agreed.