Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[KingBroly]

There's a massive disconnect between the "insiders" and the community. And the poor way they've handled it has caused everything to blow up in their face.

Sources are worthless without trust, and they've destroyed their trust. There's always been an element of resentment to the "we know but aren't telling" part of the insider community. Now they're asking for blind faith in their word over everything else. It's not pretty, and it will probably get worse.

I agree about there being a disconnect. This whole thing has made them look unprofessional. IGN handled it properly IMO, discussing it as speculation, whereas these insiders have been cagey, dismissive and in some cases disrespectful to their audience.

I think this "leak" is true, because I think it'd be too hard to fake, and more coincidences just keep popping up and the leaps in logic are becoming more vast. Could it be fake? Absolutely. But at this point, if it is, it would have to be beyond any other fake out there for anything ever.

I'm in for Isaac.

 

[Tetiro]

I must say there has been a severe case of "trust us on this without evidence" culture from insiders lately and I'm getting a tad sick of it. It has become a case of boasting now due to the behaviour of journalists.

I would be a lot more accepting had most of them done the legwork and down a discussion video speculating it and made valid points. It is a huge thing right now. Yet only a slither have done so.

The worst is GamExplain who could only muster 3 videos at a total time of less than 10 minutes and most of it was just highlighting developments. And they didn't even get all the facts right!

Right now, I am more inclined to believe my own judgment than anything a journalist says right now.

 

[Nossnitro102]

Who gave insiders this "can never be wrong" attribute anyway? There can't be many leakers with foolproof accuracy. And most that do leak something 100% it's most of the time a fluke.
Something is definitely strange with all of this..

 

[Yoh]

After reading everything, I still see no real reason not to believe the leak.
Like it's already been said here, some people are claiming to have sources which say it's fake or different.
But...I just can't believe any people who are just giving me the "my source said so believe it thing".

On the other hand the leak and so much stuff around it, seems to be credible and seems to fit together, especially concerning Isaac.

I just hope we can get that direct soon.

 

[Icana]

Meh, reading that resetera board is annoying. Seems like most of those users don't have a clue what Golden Sun is. Seeing a couple of the usual lame "anime blond swordsman" cliches.

 

[Tetiro]

After reading everything, I still see no real reason not to believe the leak.
Like it's already been said here, some people are claiming to have sources which say it's fake or different.
But...I just can't believe any people who are just giving me the "my source said so believe it thing".

On the other hand the leak and so much stuff around it, seems to be credible and seems to fit together, especially concerning Isaac.

I just hope we can get that direct soon.

We'll get a Direct in the next 19 days I am 100% sure of it

EDIT: Hmm...I just had a thought. Excuse me for a few minutes.

 

[Holdenon]

I'm going to main Isaac either way but I hope he doesn't turn out low tier and I also hope Sakurai learnt and doesn't make him as slow as Robin lmao

 

[N3ON]

Meh, reading that resetera board is annoying. Seems like most of those users don't have a clue what Golden Sun is. Seeing a couple of the usual lame "anime blond swordsman" cliches.

They actually talk about and support Isaac now. You should've been there before the leak. Or worse yet, any time pretty much outside the last two months. Rough time for an Isaac supporter there, let me tell you.

 

[EarlTamm]

I find it funny that the last 3 posts have Grinch themed icons.

 

[THE 6r]

I find it funny that the last 3 posts have Grinch themed icons.

We live in the weirdest timeline.

Though I must say, I very much approve of your icon.

 

[SebasSancy]

Can't wait anymore to find out if the leak is real or not xD

I need to see Isaac in action, I would love if djinns were part of his moveset

 

[Sabrewulf238]

How so? With something actually confirmed, not the as-of-yet unknown fate of this leak.

The last time the credibility of many of these specific insiders was questioned, we got Ridley.

I don't think you can really compare that to the Grinch leak though.

It's not like we had a convincing picture leak of Ridley as a boss/assist trophy contradicting what the insiders were saying.

 

[N3ON]

I don't think you can really compare that to the Grinch leak though.

It's not like we had a convincing picture leak of Ridley as a boss/assist trophy contradicting what the insiders were saying.

Well, we did have Sakurai basically saying Ridley wasn’t feasible, which is worth even more to some people.

But it doesn’t really matter what the insiders would’ve been up against, because they would’ve been right. As it is, it does set a loose but real precedent.

 

[THE 6r]

I just want this game so bad because I just want to know who is in it. I don't care at this point. 39 days is too long at this point.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

I just want this game so bad because I just want to know who is in it. I don't care at this point. 39 days is too long at this point.

I agree. I just want this maybe yes maybe no for the golden boy to end already. Please let him be playable Sakurai

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Updated support list

Spoiler: Adepts

 

[Machete]

Regardless of validity, this whole thing has made me lose whatever little faith I had remaining on games journalism. This is a huge story. It's potentially the most complex fake leak ever on a highly talked about game, or a huge legit leak. Whatever the case, journalists should be all up in this. As far as I know, only one page tried to get in contact with the leaker or his current workplace, which should be the very first thing any legitimate journalist would do in this case.

Yet they've all been silent. All the compilations of evidence (and even the arguments against) are done entirely from the community. The insiders are just dead silent besides "this isn't what I was told so it's fake". It's honestly absurd. Like, what worth do insiders have if they offer no more insight than "i've heard differently"? Insiders have been wrong in the past. Insiders have been fed false info in the past. Yet no insider is saying "I saw a working build of the game with Incineroar in it". No insider is saying "No deal between Microsoft and Nintendo has happened concerning Banjo". No insider is saying "Shadow is still an Assist Trophy in the latest build of the game"

They're just saying "Blindly trust me. This is false because I say so".

I understand the point of insiders not wanting to compromise their sources, I get it. But why do they have sources in the first place if not to report stories like this? "Insider X personally asked Nintendo employee Y on the validity of this leak and all they had to say was Z". That would be legit journalism, even if Z was "no comment" or "it's false". It's a joke we're not getting anyone doing this, leaving the fanbase to do all the detective work themselves.

Still supporting Isaac for all of the Isaacbros out there, but I am still not in the list of supporters! FeelsBadMan

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I've added you.

Spoiler: Adepts

 

[WaddleMatt]

I would also like to become a supporter!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Done.

Spoiler: Adepts

 

[EarlTamm]

We live in the weirdest timeline.

Though I must say, I very much approve of your icon.

Thank you, it is a great image. All of this Grinch memery has been rather bizarre, but it will almost certainly be a remembered moment for the rest of Smash history, real or fake.

 

[Skyblade12]

Well, at least Isaac is looking likely either way, what with the potential Growth item.

 

[Machete]

I'm honestly believing that people mistook an Incineroar Pokeball for a playable one, or a sketchy employee being told Incineroar was in as leakbait and him being ultimately the common source everyone else is getting Incineroar from; rather than the leak being false.

 

[Skyblade12]

Speculation from the Discord server:

Remember that they have made several Assist Trophies more complex. Alucard has dodges and multiple attacks, for example.

What if they did the same thing for some Pokeball Pokémon? What if the reason that the insiders is so convinced that Incineroar is playable is because they were shown a "playable" Incineroar that moves and acts more complex than any previous Pokémon? And can even be KO'd?

Sorry, wound up wiping this post. It's what Machete was responding to, I believe.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Speculation from the Discord server:

Remember that they have made several Assist Trophies more complex. Alucard has dodges and multiple attacks, for example.

What if they did the same thing for some Pokeball Pokémon? What if the reason that the insiders is so convinced that Incineroar is playable is because they were shown a "playable" Incineroar that moves and acts more complex than any previous Pokémon? And can even be KO'd?

Sorry, wound up wiping this post. It's what Machete was responding to, I believe.

So far there's been Scizor (A beloved Melee-veteran!), who this time has more A.I-styled fighting - and we did get Zoroark with his own "Final Smash"-style attacking as a start towards this - though I feel like they should perhaps shown Incineroar back in the August Direct with Mimikyu, if you're right.

I'd also think these insiders would really be dumb because they can't tell Incineroar being a Pokeball Mon due not having his own mugshot icon among actually playable fighters - or disappearing sometime after if those insiders would stay around watching the match for a while.

 

[THE 6r]

So far there's been Scizor (A beloved Melee-veteran!), who this time has more A.I-styled fighting - and we did get Zoroark with his own "Final Smash"-style attacking as a start towards this - though I feel like they should perhaps shown Incineroar back in the August Direct with Mimikyu, if you're right.

I'd also think these insiders would really be dumb because they can't tell Incineroar being a Pokeball Mon due not having his own mugshot icon among actually playable fighters - or disappearing sometime after if they stayed around a long while.

Fair enough. It's probably more likely that those Nintendo Ninjas pulled something through some of the common sources these leakers have. This smells of leak bait. However, like I said earlier, the only person on the Earth who seems to know the full roster is Sakurai, so I can't say for sure.

 

[Tetiro]

Speculation from the Discord server:

Remember that they have made several Assist Trophies more complex. Alucard has dodges and multiple attacks, for example.

What if they did the same thing for some Pokeball Pokémon? What if the reason that the insiders is so convinced that Incineroar is playable is because they were shown a "playable" Incineroar that moves and acts more complex than any previous Pokémon? And can even be KO'd?

Sorry, wound up wiping this post. It's what Machete was responding to, I believe.

This is a good point. With each iteration we have seen more complex items

Look at the Ditto pokemon. It acts like an ally to its original player.

 

[Q-Long]

Smash Ultimate has my favorite line up of newcomers if this is true. SO many fan choices, and we're back to treating Smash like a Hall of Fame instead of a Billboard.

I love Brawl's too, but those were more obvious choices. We all knew Wario, Ike, and Diddy were going to happen. Though I guess Olimar, Pit, and Rob were -kinda- surprises.

 

[SonicLink125]

Do you all see and hear that?!? Is that the sun rising? And the Golden Sun theme playing in the background faintly but getting louder?

It seems like everything is all leading up to Isaac being the next reveal and everything all rides on him. This is just crazy! The best timeline!

I'm seriously ready to be btfo if this was all fake, because now I'm 95/5 real.

 

[Machete]

Sorry, wound up wiping this post. It's what Machete was responding to, I believe.

Yes it was. I was pretty confused lol.

Also I can't believe I am actively rooting for Geno and Shadow, characters I used to despise, but I just don't see a scenario in which the Grinch leak -isn't- the best case scenario. Everyone gets something, and we all get much more than I ever thought we'd get. If Mach Rider is a bangin' biker babe this will be pretty much perfect.

But honestly, even if the Grinch leak somehow turns out to be false, I'd still feel more confident in Isaac than in anyone other than the echo duo. He's got far too many coincidences on his side.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Leakers and insiders comments regarding Isaac

-Mystic, he’s in, however there are some conflicting reports. More are saying that he he’s in than not. He had to make that very clear. Also, a DM leaked last night where he said that one character on the banner was an assist, and that this was known. Hence contradictions. He also commented that some people are of the opinion that there are only 3 characters left.

-Sephazon, he’s totally unsure of what to think regarding Isaac. He said the whole situation was confusing. I asked him if if character on the banner was for sure an assist, and if so who. But he didn’t get back to me.

-Emily Rogers, in a thread following the smash direc she commented that she wished a new HD Luigi’s mansion game would be produced. This wa said before anyone had really identified that the vacuum seen I never The Simon trailer was new. In a reply to someone’s else’s in the thread. She also said she wished Nintendo would acknowledge golden suns existence.

-Gamexplain, in a discussion video when the evidence for Isaac was presented by one of the members, Andre commented that Isaac was probably an assist trophy if anything. Jon himself actually commented that we could see a golden sun remake on the 3DS. In a dark souls livestream, Jon said that he was uncertain of Isaac’s chances due to his series having been dead for a while. In their weekly blog coverage, they had a segment covering the mystery item. Andre said that it was just a sprout and too hard to identify any which way.

-Liam Robertson, Though not in direct reference to Isaac. He seems to strongly believe that there’s only 3 characters left. And that the square character was the last one.

-Nintendo Life, in a video addressing fake 4chan rumors Alex commented “no” on Isaac. This was a while ago.

-Vergeben, he has come out defending Golden Sun and Isaac a few times in the past. Commenting on the persistence of the fanbase.

I won’t take of this as conclusive one way or the other. I just thought you guys should know what little insiders have said on reference to Isaac and golden sun. It has NOT been very much. And some information here I should months and months old. To my understanding not many people at all were told of K rool. So surprises like K rool could easily be left. I pointedly this out to sephazon on discord and he agreed.

 

[TappyBat]

So Isaac or no Isaac? Am confused

 

[?!?!?!]

So Isaac or no Isaac? Am confused

Yes

 

[Eagle]

So Isaac or no Isaac? Am confused

No

Spoiler

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

So Isaac or no Isaac? Am confused

It’s a very tough call. I left out that Jon made that assist trophy video we’re he spoke very positively of Isaac’s chances.

Anyways what I’m guessing is, a lot of sources are saying Isaac is in as a fighter. A few are saying that he’s only an assist trophy, or a regular trophy, or not in the game at all. That’s why many insiders aren’t speaking conclusively on him. Jon’s unsure, Andre thinks he only might be an assist, sephazon says the situation is weird. On their side, there is probably enough evidence to say he is in. But the fact that there is any doubt all makes it so that most leakers are unwilling to report on him without absolute certainty prior. Which Is a fair stance to take. On their end, it’s probably something like 80/20, 80 He’s playable, 20 he’s not. And until that 80 hits 100, one way or the other, insiders are generally uncomfortable reporting.

 

[roydgriffin]

I would also love to be a supporter! Isaac is my most wanted character, ever since brawl!

 

[Frosty Pops]

If it was a site error, wouldn't Ike also be cut off? Or am I missing something?

If it was an error everything along that connecting seam should have been cut, not just one particular spot.

 

[iam8bit]

TheSpaceKing12 How about PapaGeno's source confirming Banjo and the rest of the character's from the Grinch leak?

 

[KoopaSaki]

Does anybody here buy that skull kid theory claiming him to be in that grinch leak banner under Mach riders bike? I want him in personally, but it’s hard to make out if it’s really him or not.

 

[Machete]

Does anybody here buy that skull kid theory claiming him to be in that grinch leak banner under Mach riders bike? I want him in personally, but it’s hard to make out if it’s really him or not.

No, because the Chadondorf post didn't mention him and the connection with that post is one of the biggest points in the leak's favor. Skull Kid would also need to be in a really, really odd position.

I wouldn't be against it, of course, as I've been wanting a non-Triforce Zelda character since forever and Skull Kid is my second option after bae, but I cannot see Majora's Mask in that no matter how hard I try.