Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Kisae]

Holy S**t i just realised i will be working during the Direct Nooooooooooo T___T

Well yeah i don't want to put my hopes so high and get disappointed..So like CheckmateChuck said let's cross our fingers

 

[SonicLink125]

Oh man! Hype levels are at an all time high for me right now! Trying to lower my expectations, but man is it hard!
LETS GO ISAAC!!!

 

[ThatShadowLink]

forgive me for i have memed
https://twitter.com/AShadowLink/status/1026209386069409792

 

[Hydewell]

Well, personally I won't see it. I'll try to arrive to December without seeing any of the news, so I would be off of this website unless someone spoils me the direct. I really hope they announce Isaac (though, tbh, is unlikely) but if they don't announce it, at least I hope none of the newcomers is one of the Vergeben said...
And also, at least you'll know which characters will be eligible with the next newcomer and if the ballot really mattered or not.
And now is when they won't announce any newcomer xD

Appropriate music for this occasion.

... lol

 

[Billybae10K]

So, are we all ready to face August 8th with trepidation and hope in our hearts, wondering whether our boy will be accepted into the Nintendo Pantheon of Smash?

 

[Kisae]

So, are we all ready to face August 8th with trepidation and hope in our hearts, wondering whether our boy will be accepted into the Nintendo Pantheon of Smash?

If only i wasn't working at the same moment hell yeah i would !

I will try to sneak to the backstore and check the Direct different times xDD

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Let's be hoping the sun shines on us this time...

#IsaacforSmashUltimate

 

[isaac3000]

They probably use an algorythm that depending on how much sold the first weeks, they calculate how the sales drop, etc.

First, Intelligent Systems (the creators), despite being a 3rd party (welp, second party for the fandom), it's VERY close to Nintendo in terms of bussiness. They even have their building near to the Nintendo Headquarters (I think it was in the same street). Though Nintendo hasn't bought IS, basically it's a first party studio for them.
Also, their team is big. They probably triplified the Camelot team at that time. And they work in a lot of different projects in various genres (they're responsible of Paper Mario, Wario Ware, Fire Emblem, Wars, Panel de Pon, Pullblox...) so Fire Emblem (with Wars) was their only IP which wasn't influenced nor ordered and supervised by Nintendo.

On the other hand, we had Camelot, which, at that time, broke up with Nintendo to join Capcom in a Golf game for the Wii (despite being first designed for the PC) and returned to Nintendo with a worse team and were near to bankruptcy. They developed a game which was heavily criticised and their next Mario sport titles (Tennis and Golf for the 3ds) were also criticised for their lack of content (even now they are accused of that with Aces). If they have problems with small titles like Mario Tennis, why would Nintendo rely on them with a much more demanding title like a RPG?

Maybe FE:Awakening wasn't that profitable if they sold only 250k. But you need to understand that IS has been with them since 1984 and has developed a lot of succesful games which sold very well. Their only self-IP was in trouble (Wars was basically dead at that point), but they could be more soft with them (yeah, a bit contradictory considering if it didn't make it, they would kill the franchise lol) because they saw the potential of the team.

Also, I think it's (was) cheaper to develop a Fire Emblem title. I've never played a Fire Emblem title so my opinion could be wrong, but basically you need to design some maps and the characters, do a proper story and develop the stats for every character, like a RPG system (now probably they increased the costs because there're zones where you can move freely and there're interactive maps). Golden Sun needs more budget because the team need to design the dungeons, world map (which includes the exploration), the towns, the puzzles and their interactions with the psyenergies, the rpg system, the story, create a lot of enemies... So in Fire Emblem you need to play only in a small area and in Golden Sun you can move freely in one area which conect to other areas. Yeah, maybe with the same sales like Fire Emblem could be profitable, but it would be less... and the Mario Sport titles gives more money to them.

I see, this makes sense when you put it that way. I don't really understand how Game companies work, but this was something that always bothered me :-/

Please, give Fire Emblem a try, I first played it through the 3DS Ambassador program and ever since I became a big fan of the series!
Also: Isaac reveal please please plese!!!

 

[Deleted member]

I got work Wednesday morning, and I can't take a break that early, so I'll wait until after work to find out.

Isaac is highly unlikely, but as long as new info comes our way, I'm happy with it.

 

[Burigu]

They probably use an algorythm that depending on how much sold the first weeks, they calculate how the sales drop, etc.

But yeah, basically the data is concocted. Nowadays we have an idea with reliable sources for the popular titles because some companies publish the numbers (Media create in Japan (every week), NPD in USA (every month), in Europe is a bit difficult due to the numbers of countries, but there are one in UK which is published every week, etc.) But this wasn't common before, so...

EDIT:

First, Intelligent Systems (the creators), despite being a 3rd party (welp, second party for the fandom), it's VERY close to Nintendo in terms of bussiness. They even have their building near to the Nintendo Headquarters (I think it was in the same street). Though Nintendo hasn't bought IS, basically it's a first party studio for them.
Also, their team is big. They probably triplified the Camelot team at that time. And they work in a lot of different projects in various genres (they're responsible of Paper Mario, Wario Ware, Fire Emblem, Wars, Panel de Pon, Pullblox...) so Fire Emblem (with Wars) was their only IP which wasn't influenced nor ordered and supervised by Nintendo.

On the other hand, we had Camelot, which, at that time, broke up with Nintendo to join Capcom in a Golf game for the Wii (despite being first designed for the PC) and returned to Nintendo with a worse team and were near to bankruptcy. They developed a game which was heavily criticised and their next Mario sport titles (Tennis and Golf for the 3ds) were also criticised for their lack of content (even now they are accused of that with Aces). If they have problems with small titles like Mario Tennis, why would Nintendo rely on them with a much more demanding title like a RPG?

Maybe FE:Awakening wasn't that profitable if they sold only 250k. But you need to understand that IS has been with them since 1984 and has developed a lot of succesful games which sold very well. Their only self-IP was in trouble (Wars was basically dead at that point), but they could be more soft with them (yeah, a bit contradictory considering if it didn't make it, they would kill the franchise lol) because they saw the potential of the team.

Also, I think it's (was) cheaper to develop a Fire Emblem title. I've never played a Fire Emblem title so my opinion could be wrong, but basically you need to design some maps and the characters, do a proper story and develop the stats for every character, like a RPG system (now probably they increased the costs because there're zones where you can move freely and there're interactive maps). Golden Sun needs more budget because the team need to design the dungeons, world map (which includes the exploration), the towns, the puzzles and their interactions with the psyenergies, the rpg system, the story, create a lot of enemies... So in Fire Emblem you need to play only in a small area and in Golden Sun you can move freely in one area which conect to other areas. Yeah, maybe with the same sales like Fire Emblem could be profitable, but it would be less... and the Mario Sport titles gives more money to them.

No you got it wrong Fire Emblem would be cancelled if Awakening didn't sell AT LEAST 250k units which it did, according to VGCharts the game sold 2.10 Million copies.

By the way good luck guys I am a proud owner of Dark Dawn

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

The direct was announced literally 5 minutes before I woke up so I rushed to make an @IsaacForSmash Tweet asap. The direct is midnight where I live so r.i.p sleep I'd be so excited if Isaac was revealed, I've been waiting for so darn long. All I know is I'm going to be holding my breath in the assist trophy section of the direct. Please free our boy Sakurai

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

The direct was announced literally 5 minutes before I woke up so I rushed to make an @IsaacForSmash Tweet asap. The direct is midnight where I live so r.i.p sleep I'd be so excited if Isaac was revealed, I've been waiting for so darn long. All I know is I'm going to be holding my breath in the assist trophy section of the direct. Please free our boy Sakurai

I haven't even been around the Internet at all today so I literally just found out there was a direct. Omg, my hype is through the roof right now. Since it's a Smash direct, it's likely we get more than just one character!

The poor optimistic part of my soul is hoping that since it's so close to Golden Sun's original release date, it means something. But I know better. I'm just going to cross my fingers he doesn't get disconfirmed.

 

[iam8bit]

This might be it guys! We could get the dreaded AT reveal or our newcomer dream coming true.

... or nothing, and we're kept in the dark until the next Direct.

Let's hope the Golden Sun rises again.

 

[Malkior7]

I pray to the Wise One that Isaac will be a playable character come Wednesday

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

The fact that it's a full-blown Smash direct and not just a short presentation both excites and horrifies me. The Smash direct in 2014 was a whopping 39 minutes long, and while it's wishful to think we're matching that length again, it means they likely have a lot to show off... whether it's for better or for worse in Isaac's case.

 

[StormC]

The fact that it's a full-blown Smash direct and not just a short presentation both excites and horrifies me. The Smash direct in 2014 was a whopping 39 minutes long, and while it's wishful to think we're matching that length again, it means they likely have a lot to show off... whether it's for better or for worse in Isaac's case.

I’m pretty sure it’ll be a full 40 minutes. They’d say it’s a mini Direct otherwise.

 

[Olo]

My week is shaping up to have a good start.

Monday: civic holiday
Tuesday: 18th birthday, gonna get annihilated
Wednesday: Smash Ultimate Direct

I'll be at work during the direct which is annoying but oh well. Something to look forward to! Better grab a spoiler-free link beforehand.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

The fact that it's a full-blown Smash direct and not just a short presentation both excites and horrifies me. The Smash direct in 2014 was a whopping 39 minutes long, and while it's wishful to think we're matching that length again, it means they likely have a lot to show off... whether it's for better or for worse in Isaac's case.

Yeah I'm predicting 1-2 newcomers with more character change tidbits, stages ,items and assist trophies and maybe new modes (fingers crossed for Adventure mode). I'd be happy with this direct if Isaac isn't deconfirmed as an assist and open for a later reveal and we see fan favorites that were popular on ballot polls as a good indication that he's likely.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Yeah I'm predicting 1-2 newcomers with more character change tidbits, stages ,items and assist trophies and maybe new modes (fingers crossed for Adventure mode). I'd be happy with this direct if Isaac isn't deconfirmed as an assist and open for a later reveal and we see fan favorites that were popular on ballot polls as a good indication that he's likely.

King K. Rool and/or Geno confirmations would be a good sign if we don't get Isaac himself shown off.

 

[Falgor]

I bet they're gonna show us a LOT of game modes in this Direct. I'd say it's gonna last 25-30 minutes with one newcomer reveal.

Please don't let Isaac be just an AT again, he deserves that playable spot, and we as a community of patient and very positive fans, too.
Heck, every Smash Bros player deserve the fun it would be to play Isaac, whether they played Golden Sun or not!

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I bet they're gonna show us a LOT of game modes in this Direct. I'd say it's gonna last 25-30 minutes with one newcomer reveal.

Please don't let Isaac be just an AT again, he deserves that playable spot, and we as a community of patient and very positive fans, too.
Heck, every Smash Bros player deserve the fun it would be to play Isaac, whether they played Golden Sun or not!

Isaac's inclusion would be kind of like Ness, only a few know of the origin game but the character representing that game in Smash becomes an irreplaceable and iconic fan favorite and with what Isaac can bring to the table that can surely be the case

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Just heard about the direct. Exciting though I'm expecting Simon and/or Isabelle more than anything else. (although having said that, someone unpredictable could be the most likely outcome)

It would be a great opportunity for an Isaac reveal....

Edit: Didn't even think about another possible assist trophy trailer, eek tomorrow could be bad for some fanbases that are banking on assist trophies being promoted to playable.

 

[Hydewell]

I see, this makes sense when you put it that way. I don't really understand how Game companies work, but this was something that always bothered me :-/

Please, give Fire Emblem a try, I first played it through the 3DS Ambassador program and ever since I became a big fan of the series!
Also: Isaac reveal please please plese!!!

I'm horrendous with strategic titles. I know Fire Emblem titles are good but I suck in strategic genres ^^'

No you got it wrong Fire Emblem would be cancelled if Awakening didn't sell AT LEAST 250k units which it did, according to VGCharts the game sold 2.10 Million copies.

By the way good luck guys I am a proud owner of Dark Dawn

Where did I say that it only sold 275k or something like that? (I'm bad at English so it's possible I expressed in a wrong way).
Btw, Vgchartz isn't reliable. We know the game sold 1.79 millions (the last official data we have is from December 2014).
Also, that goal wasn't high; it seems the entries of Nintendo DS reached that numbers only in Japan... and both entries weren't that good (and also they were remakes...) Source (though I'd prefer something more contrasted). So it seems it was more a wake-up call rather than a serious threat.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

The fact that it's a full-blown Smash direct and not just a short presentation both excites and horrifies me. The Smash direct in 2014 was a whopping 39 minutes long, and while it's wishful to think we're matching that length again, it means they likely have a lot to show off... whether it's for better or for worse in Isaac's case.

Don't forget that Sakurai is likely going to show off Assist Trophies. Regardless, I believe Isaac will be safe this time around.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Don't forget that Sakurai is likely going to show off Assist Trophies. Regardless, I believe Isaac will be safe this time around.

Yeah, that's what I meant by "for worse". Isaac will be in the clear if he can just get through the direct. While Gamescom might have a new demo build including newcomers revealed on Wednesday and possibly some undiscussed ATs like at E3, Isaac won't be a part of that crowd. If he's returning to that role, Sakurai wouldn't let it go unannounced in the direct since he was absent from Smash 4.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Yeah, that's what I meant by "for worse". Isaac will be in the clear if he can just get through the direct. While Gamescom might have a new demo build including newcomers revealed on Wednesday and possibly some undiscussed ATs like at E3, Isaac won't be a part of that crowd. If he's returning to that role, Sakurai wouldn't let it go unannounced in the direct since he was absent from Smash 4.

Why wouldn't he let it go unannounced?

If Isaac doesn't show up in this direct it means nothing for his chances of being playable or his liklihood of returning as an assist.

Unless they plan to reveal every remaining assist trophy in this direct.

edit: Did you mean they wouldn't have him appear in a demo without being revealed in the direct? I can see the logic in that but I don't think it's a guarantee that that wouldn't happen.

 

[Billybae10K]

My fear would be that they do exactly what they did with Brawl. Make Isaac an unlockable AT and don't reveal it until post-launch.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Why wouldn't he let it go unannounced?

If Isaac doesn't show up in this direct it means nothing for his chances of being playable or his liklihood of returning as an assist.

Unless they plan to reveal every remaining assist trophy in this direct.

edit: Did you mean they wouldn't have him appear in a demo without being revealed in the direct? I can see the logic in that but I don't think it's a guarantee that that wouldn't happen.

Yes, I meant he wouldn't just show up in a demo without us having prior knowledge. Since he was a popular AT and would be the first example of a cut AT coming back, I would believe that Sakurai would make note of his return rather than simply leave it for us to discover in a demo (or even the full game) like with most ATs.

 

[Arsenal234]

Appropriate music for this occasion.

This is perfect. I hope our boy isn't an Assist again.

I feel in this direct they will have to show off some more assists in which case there are a lot of characters to look out for. Skull kid, Ashley, Isabelle, Shadow, Dark Samus, and of course Isaac. Strap in guys Wednesday should be interesting.

 

[iam8bit]

Is an AT reveal our worst case scenario? I mean, that would basically discard Isaac from being added later as DLC if he's not a newcomer initially.

Anywho, I'm really hyped for this Direct regardless, it was about time for some news.

BTW, wasn't the Japanese anniversary for Golden Sun a few days ago? 17 years, same as Isaac's age in the game. One can dream...

 

[N3ON]

Worst case scenario is what happened with Smash 4. Nothing.

Well I guess worst worst case scenario is Isaac is nothing and we lose the two pieces of content GS still has in Smash.

 

[TreeBranch]

I'm not really a huge fan of Isaac and haven't played Golden Sun, but I really hope he makes it in this time for all his fans. I always like to prioritize franchises without a character, so I'd welcome his inclusion. Unfortunately, I don't really see his chances being that high. Even if he doesn't get in in the base game, then I think he has a chance at DLC. I really hope he at least comes back as an assist trophy. He deserves it. So yeah, I support.

 

[Burigu]

Where did I say that it only sold 275k or something like that? (I'm bad at English so it's possible I expressed in a wrong way).
Btw, Vgchartz isn't reliable. We know the game sold 1.79 millions (the last official data we have is from December 2014).
Also, that goal wasn't high; it seems the entries of Nintendo DS reached that numbers only in Japan... and both entries weren't that good (and also they were remakes...) Source (though I'd prefer something more contrasted). So it seems it was more a wake-up call rather than a serious threat.

Well here:

Maybe FE:Awakening wasn't that profitable if they sold only 250k.

I didn't really want to start a debate on the actual number of FEA sales, I was just pointing out your quote above, I will keep this short because this doesn't belong here.

The "ultimatum" was revealed in an "Iwata Ask" the games had had decreasing sales all around, Ike's second game Radiant Dawn was really poorly received, (which makes that game pretty expensive now, because of very few units available). Which caused a second Wii game to get cancelled with Nintendo telling IS to stick to portable games.
Shadow Dragon for the DS was also poorly received which in turn caused the second remake on the DS New Mystery being a Japan exclusive for the first time in years. (SD is kind of meh but New Mystery is a really good game).
I am sure if it weren't for Awakening's success and by extension the arrival of new fans with it, Fire Emblem would be a dead series.

And no problem I didn't have issues with your english, greetings!

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

My fear would be that they do exactly what they did with Brawl. Make Isaac an unlockable AT and don't reveal it until post-launch.

That would sting man, I skimmed through the old Isaac board from 2006- 2008 and sympathised with their frustration when the Brawl roster was leaked and he wasn't there. I personally would prefer him not to be in the base game over him being an assist so we can get another shot at DLC, Smash 4's DLC development was cut short since they had to work on Ultimate so I predict Ultimate's post game content having a longer life than that and also I don't see them making another Smash for a long time since there may be some cuts which would obviously piss off fans

 

[DogManStar]

I'm just gonna say, if Isaac is an AT, it will at least be better than the terrible treatment we got from Smash 4. I won't be very happy if Isaac is only an AT, but I don't think I will really be mad either. If Isaac is going to be playable though, I don't think he will be revealed in this direct, if I had to put money on a character for this one I would say K. Rool or Ashley maybe. I think Isaac is the type of character who might be revealed relatively closer to release, like Shulk for Smash 4.

Regardless of what happens on Wednesday, I will always be an Isaac supporter and Golden Sun fan. Let's just hope for the best.

 

[iam8bit]

My big hope is that Isaac's AT was removed because he was considered for Smash 4 but ultimately not make it due to other characters having priority, and that makes him a candidate for this game, even if DLC.

So with that in mind, I'd much prefer no AT reveal so that the possibility is still there.

 

[SonicLink125]

I never knew you could be excited and terrified at the same time until now. Hype levels going from 0 to 100 and back to 0 so quick as well. How pathetic of me.

No matter what happens, I will always root for Isaac!

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

No matter what happens, I will always root for Isaac!

Good attitude, Isaac's chances only die when we give up. Ridley fans have been begging Sakurai since pre Melee even when he became a stage boss and it appeared his fate was sealed until he was revealed a month and a half ago

 

[RandomAce]

Isaac no longer being the protagonist at the time could put him in "lower priority" too. That is, for AT's. On the other hand, with Saki, his sequel did pretty poorly too. DD did pretty decently, and was also less obscure in the long run. So maybe Matthew was on his mind for an AT change and it never worked out.

I hope Sakurai explains it himself. There's just too many possibilities. I do agree with your point. It's awkward. Why does Saki get a break but Isaac doesn't?

Well, Sin and Punishment: Star Successor released around the same time when Sakurai was looking for content to add (2008), and in that game, Saki wasn’t even the main protagonist, it was Isa Jo, and it will most likely be him in the next game if there even is one (for Spoiler reasons, inconclusive ending). So I’m assuming he wasn’t planning on using Saki for anything since we had Isa as the more relevant/popular character. But this is reaching tin foil territory.

It’s still weird though because, Golden Sun nor Sin and Punishment: Star Successor get anything. I mean unlike DD, Star Successor was given praise by the media, but it just did mediocre sales.

My theory, simply put they were low priority. It’s clear from Isaac’s absense as an assist trophy and the new music track that he was planned for something else along with Golden Sun representation in general that explains this, and they weren’t able to get to it because they didn’t have enough time. This might also explain why Saki is still an assist trophy. Isa Jo and the second Sin and Punishment game came right at the time for Sakurai to consider. Naturally due to where the series was planned to be headed, Sakurai instead decided to opt for Isa and Star Successor content, but couldn’t due to time constraints, and just had Saki in there.

If this ends up being the case (which although should be taken with a grain of salt, seems like the logical conclusion) along with large popularity from the ballot, Isaac would’ve ended up being one of the first newcomers to be planned since it’s clear from Ultimate that Sakurai is addressing previous things he has considered before and couldn’t get to, with Isaac being a recent example (and even the planned Sin and Punishment content and ISA!!!). But keep in mind that this is just one possibility, and Isaac may not even be considered.

Let’s just hope for the best folks! We’ll soon find out about Isaac’s fate along with Golden Sun and hopefully it lands in our favor. And for me, along with Isa Jo and Sin and Punishment representation, I don’t like Saki though (his hairstyle is kind of dumb). Isa and Isaac have untapped potential for awesome movesets not in Smash yet. (Gun Blade? Spell Telekinetic Swordman? Why is it not in muh Smash!?)

 

[DogManStar]

Isaac's fate in Smash 4 has confused me a great deal so honestly, I try not to think about it anymore, since I feel like I've gone through every possibility multiple times over the past few years. Personally, I hope he really was considered for a greater purpose that never came to fruition. Hopefully, that, along with the ballot, will push him into the limelight.