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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

LegendOfDragoon

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Something I think we're neglecting:

IF this is real
IF that's Flint at his feet
Flint is probably in his official render

IF that's the case, then Flint should be on the Amiibo

We will have official nintendo merchandise of Flint the Djinn (and Isaac of course)
 

Jupiter Ivan

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Something I think we're neglecting:

IF this is real
IF that's Flint at his feet
Flint is probably in his official render

IF that's the case, then Flint should be on the Amiibo

We will have official nintendo merchandise of Flint the Djinn (and Isaac of course)
Then I’ll be that much closer to official merch of a Jupiter Djinni... yes please.
 
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ZelDan

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I could see them making DLC echo fighters free updates (similar to most Splatoon 2 new content or Kirby Star Allies), and more unique characters costing a certain amount of money and bringing with them new stages, music, mii costumes, etc. (similar to how Smash 4 did things.

Or they could just put echoes/uniques together...
 

THE 6r

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I think the first wave could be exclusively echo fighters, so there's some build up for the big names later.
I always imagined them doing an echo fighter pack of some sort where instead of getting 1 unique character you get 3 echo fighters instead. Another possible option would be a unique that came bundled with their echo fighter (and stage if it's a new IP)
 

Sabrewulf238

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My theory is that at least one of the characters is a Mewtwo situation, where its DLC.

I just can't believe a situation where so many of these characters are in the base.
To be fair just because you can't believe it doesn't mean it can't happen. Lots of unbelievable things have happened in Smash Bros in the past.

Thinking about it in terms of 7 characters and what we know about the rumour of their being two directs in November....I could see something like this happening.

2 newcomers revealed in Nintendo direct. (early November) (Chorus Kids and Isaac/Geno)
4 newcomers (including Ken and Shadow echoes) revealed in Smash direct. (late November) (Isaac/Geno, Ken, Shadow, Banjo & Kazooie)
1 newcomer revealed in trailer drop (early December) (Mach Rider)

Of course 5 newcomers could occur in the Smash direct so there might not be a trailer drop. At first I thought Banjo & Kazooie might be the last reveal, but a trailer drop with Mach Rider in December could be more likely, since Duck Hunt was the last character to get a trailer for the last game.

That's the main way I could see this panning out. I'm kinda skeptical on the idea that DLC characters would be added to the mural this early.
 
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ZelDan

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What's interesting to me is if there is both a general direct and Smash direct, which character get revealed in what, and is there perhaps a reason certain charactrers get shown off in the general one? Maybe they show off Isaac along side a new Golden Sun (sequel, remake, compilation, whatever), or maybe Geno gets shown off alongside a Super Mario RPG 2 or a Mario RPG of some kind.
 

BravadoMan_13

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So, DLC.
Who do you guys think would be our first few characters?
Dixie by far. If she doesn't make the base roster by the way it sounds, they're saving her to be more unique for DLC. I'm down for a Dixie + Funky pack. After that maybe Bandana Dee.
 

FunAtParties

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So, DLC.
Who do you guys think would be our first few characters?
Rayman no bias

For real tho, Dixie, and I think Incineroar wasn't mentioned for nothing. Skull Kid after hype train. Maybe BWD
 

Fire Tactician

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At this point, they're kinda stuck. They know about the leak now, so confirming any small part of it confirms the whole thing. Even if they had planned on staggering it, they might have to change gears and go all or nothing.
 

TheSpaceKing12

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Dixie by far. If she doesn't make the base roster by the way it sounds, they're saving her to be more unique for DLC. I'm down for a Dixie + Funky pack. After that maybe Bandana Dee.
The chad-dorf leak, which is actually connected to the Grinch leak conspiracy, suggested that she was in some stage of development but got cut. Now following the patterns established by smash 4, cut characters in development do not become DLC. However, given Dixie's support, I have a decent felling that she will get picked back up at some point. If she was developed than cut, it could have been on account of Sakurai's rule that character's can't be echos if bodily proportions don't line up almost exactly. This makes me think that Isabelle was an echo at one point, realized it looked weird, and gave her the promotion to unique. The exact opposite might have happened for Dixie. She was an echo, they got to a certain point, it looked terrible and wasn't fully reflective of her character, so they scrapped it entirely as Isabelle was the far higher priority at that point. So if she get's picked back up, I expect her to be a semi clone at least, and totally unique moreso.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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So, DLC.
Who do you guys think would be our first few characters?
I certainly hope Dixie Kong's one of them - being apparently planned yet cut again and then not even be developed back on the game would just feel yanking too much the chain of Dixie-fans and her own legacy by this point. I kind of feel she wouldn't have been to hard to work with by start, being able to be built upon from Diddy Kong...


 
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Sabrewulf238

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So, DLC.
Who do you guys think would be our first few characters?
If the chandondorf (?) leak is legit it could point to Dixie Kong, Ray 01 and Monster Hunter being likely as the first dlc characters.

Aside from that I think Bandana Dee, Elma, Rex & Pyra, Spring Man/Ribbon Girl are looking good for dlc. (Also Incineroar, if only because some people are still adamant that he's in so I guess he could be dlc) Then there are other third party characters like Sora, Lloyd, Phoenix Wright, Rayman, Crash that have potential though they might be later dlc.

I think Elma could be on shaky ground as dlc though. It all depends on whether Sakurai/Monolith Soft want to rep Xenoblade Chronicles X with a character before moving on to Xenoblade 2.
 
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Undella2

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I would presume that none of the characters on the Grinch mural are DLC, considering that the company said the guy didn't work there, at least not anymore.

Either the guy was just fired after he leaked the stuff, or he was fired with the Smash/Grinch stuff still on hand, and as a result of being fired, got mad and did his whole snapchat ordeal.
 

Isaac for Smash Pls

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Whether or not the leak is true, my opinion on DLC has always been more or less the same.

Absolute locks:
Rex & Pyra - representatives of a popular franchise, would fit well moveset wise, first party, no real roadblocks
ARMS Rep - ditto
Pokemon rep - I totally agree with the choice not to add any newcomers to the base roster, but DLC is the perfect way to advertise gen 8. Or it could be Tony the Tiger I guess

Likely:
Lloyd - face of the Tales franchise, Bandai-Namco's posterboy after Pac-Man, massively requested in Japan, B-N is developing the game but has only 1 rep, did well in polls


Possible:
Dixie - I always thought the idea of her as a Diddy echo was silly. She'll probably have a similar but fairly different moveset, like Isabelle. Her chances are higher if the Chadnondorf leak is true

Sakurai pls:
Paper Mario - This is probably asking for too much, especially if Geno is in, but I still think this part of Mario history hasn't gotten enough attention, even with the stage. Great moveset potential here
Skull Kid - even though ultimately he'll probably be remembered as a short-lived bandwagon pick, I think he would be well received and interesting
Crono - Protagonist of one of the most beloved and iconic games of ALL. TIME. Pls papa Sakurai
 
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jweb23

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Man wtf is up with GameExplain not covering this leak adequately? I started listening to them years ago specifically to hear them dissect this sort of hype. Did the Nintendo ninjas take over that channel? I fully expected a discussion to come out today with Andre on team maybe, Derrick on team definitely not for no reason, Ash as a wildcard, and Jon definitely just guessing a bunch of never before heard characters that turn out to be in the game.
I saw this post on the general discussion thread and it brings up something strange that I have noticed as well. Of course I’m not gonna act like I watch everyone or even know everyone to watch on YouTube but a lot of the top Nintendo Partnership channels I follow have not discussed the leak at all! GameXplain will usually devote a good 30 minutes to something like this but it seems like everyone is hush hush about it.

Their awkward silence is making me think this leak is truly legit! Like I said, I don’t follow everyone so have you all noticed this as well?
 

ZelDan

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Dixie is a character I'd like to see as DLC, and if she is DLC< that hopefully increases the chances of her being unique or a semi-clone.

Elma would be great for DLC to, the issue with that is that as far as DLC goes, she'd have competition from Rex and Pyra, so that'd be rough, unless we get a Xenoblade Chronicles X 2 announcement at some point.
 

Golden Icarus

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I want a trailer drop right now more than ever. As much as I love the hype and drama of leaks, I am getting uncomfortably anxious. All it takes is one chaaacter to prove the legitimacy of the leak...

Man it’s a lot more nerve racking when Isaac is on the line.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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I want a trailer drop right now more than ever. As much as I love the hype and drama of leaks, I am getting uncomfortably anxious. All it takes is one chaaacter to prove the legitimacy of the leak...

Man it’s a lot more nerve racking when Isaac is on the line.
Hmmh - this just has so much to itself. I'm not surprised by all this anxiety at all.

Everything else alternative will feel very disappointing by now.
 
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Banjodorf

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I saw this post on the general discussion thread and it brings up something strange that I have noticed as well. Of course I’m not gonna act like I watch everyone or even know everyone to watch on YouTube but a lot of the top Nintendo Partnership channels I follow have not discussed the leak at all! GameXplain will usually devote a good 30 minutes to something like this but it seems like everyone is hush hush about it.

Their awkward silence is making me think this leak is truly legit! Like I said, I don’t follow everyone so have you all noticed this as well?
It's the especially awkward tip-toeing that makes it all weird. "Here's why this is probably fake!" was their video title, and they even threw in "And the Banjo is the Smashified Banjo" when that's blatantly false and Omni even said so himself. It'd be easy to talk about it if they weren't under Nintendo's heel or something. SourceGaming has the same kind of thing going on. They spent the entirety of their "leak dissection stream" not talking about the merits of the leak, instead saying "but Sakurai said X so why would he do Y" or "maybe it's a plant by Nintendo to trick us!"

Makes me think there's something more to it when there's a lot of weird hand-wringing going on.
 

Sabrewulf238

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I want a trailer drop right now more than ever. As much as I love the hype and drama of leaks, I am getting uncomfortably anxious. All it takes is one chaaacter to prove the legitimacy of the leak...

Man it’s a lot more nerve racking when Isaac is on the line.
Honestly this leak has made me kinda sad that we're not going to get a Chorus Kids trailer completely blindsiding everyone.

Can you imagine if a Nintendo direct came along next and revealed Chorus Kids and Isaac? (and we didn't know about this leak)
 
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GoldenSunIsAlive

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Still no debunk? This thing is obviously real, after a certain time, things get very hard to hide (the closer something gets to release).

I actually expect some news on this or a direct very soon because of this.

Btw, I wouldn't be completely surprised if Sakurai and the team would change some things up quickly to make it look like the leak isn't real, like juggle around with characters digitally in the direct video.
 

Sabrewulf238

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Still no debunk? This thing is obviously real, after a certain time, things get very hard to hide (the closer something gets to release).

I actually expect some news on this or a direct very soon because of this.

Btw, I wouldn't be completely surprised if Sakurai and the team would change some things up quickly to make it look like the leak isn't real, like juggle around with characters digitally in the direct video.
Even if they just move the characters around we'd still know if they had the same poses. They'd have to create brand new mural artwork or just flat out stop adding characters to mural. (in which case that in and of itself would be pretty telling)

and even then if it's a character like Chorus Kids or Mach Rider the leak would still have a lot going for it. Even characters like Isaac and Banjo & Kazooie are ones some people don't think are likely, so even reveals for those characters would stand out. Geno is the only character people are even somewhat in agreement on in terms of being a likely addition.

If true this leak seems like something that would be very hard to cover up convincingly.
 
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VexTheHex

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I drew some outlines on the image, does this help?

https://i.imgur.com/XBCsrU8.png
It does help, thanks! So the little guy is sitting on his boot by the looks of it and may have it's head grasped by Issac's hand. Honestly the green at his feet was also throwing me off, was wondering what the goop was to be honest! For some reason I didn't think grass.

I can see it being one, my only concern is his belly is the same color as the ground which leaves room for it just being an illusion.
 
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Sabrewulf238

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I'm not convinced Flint really is in that picture.

It could be Isaac petting Flint, but I also see Isaac holding out his hand to use the growth psynergy on the grass/vines. I mean which seems more likely?
 

Katy Parry

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I could be wrong, but I think Isaac is trying to catch the djinn in the picture. Like, he's sneaking up on it or he's in awe or shock that he's come across one. That was a huge aspect of the game after all, finding and catching them. So, that's just a thought.

This could be a stretch but maybe it's Vine, and it's a part of his kit. Maybe a winning animation.
 
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Gioka

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I wonder if this leak changes anything regarding to Nintendo and how they will communicate the remaining stuff? As pointed previously, if this is true, almost any character could confirm it (except for Ken, I guess, since he is been in like, every leak since echoes became a thing), so I do wonder if Nintendo will change anything (order for the info, for example) or if they will just go as if nothing ever happened
 

Chiroz

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Copy pasting my post from the general thread, I am sorry to be the bearer of (possible) bad news. Hopefully Isaac is still in.


So for those who read my previous comments. I wanted to believe this leak very much and I was trying hard to prove it to be true. Vaanrose and I took all versions of the mural and started pinpointing "spots" that have never been visible in any version (when characters get moved around, some new spots get revealed and some new spots get obscured, but some spots are obscured in every single version) and then compared those spots in the leak to the E3. In every single case, they were different. In fact, as far as I could tell, every place where the leak differs to the E3 mural is exactly a place that has been obscured in every version.

This leads me to believe that this leak is probably fake. Vaanrose showed me how easy it is to cut a character and have photoshop fill in the blank space for you with an appropriate looking space.

My theory, that I can prove by doing it myself, is that whoever made the leak basically took all previous versions of the poster, cut all characters from each version and then combined all what he had. He then either had photoshop fill in the blank spaces left, or filled him out himself (these are all the spaces that are just wrong).

I myself found 7 different inconsistencies in this way that Vaanrose had not previously listed (so add those to the list he has already provided).
 

N3ON

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I wonder if this leak changes anything regarding to Nintendo and how they will communicate the remaining stuff? As pointed previously, if this is true, almost any character could confirm it (except for Ken, I guess, since he is been in like, every leak since echoes became a thing), so I do wonder if Nintendo will change anything (order for the info, for example) or if they will just go as if nothing ever happened
Ken would confirm it too, they'd have to update the mural.
 

Sabrewulf238

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I was reading some Reddit comments and I saw something interesting.

Certain existing characters have been moved to new locations and parts of their body that were previously hidden are now visible. Which would mean the "fake" leaker would need to not only fake the new characters, the background, and the grinch promotional art but also the artwork for older characters.

For example the new banner has Roys right foot on display, when previously it had been hidden by the Inkling.

Not saying a fake leaker couldn't have gone to the trouble of adding these details, but it does mean this wasn't just a simple case of creating artwork for the seven characters and slotting them in.
 
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JaidynReiman

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Holy Flare, this is big.

First, if Mach Rider gets in, he will not have a stage, because his Melee track is on the "other" section of the soundtrack. So if you ask me, replace his stage for a new Mute City because of the naming of the 3DS one.
Second, Sakurai said they would announce all the designs before launch, the way I imagine them revealing some of these guys is showing the artwork of each newcomer and throwing all of their trailers on the website to avoid saturation.
Duck Hunt and Ice Climber are both in Other. Sakurai specifically said that franchises with only one game don't get their own category. That would also apply to Mach Rider.
 

Calane

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I have to admit, I actually lost faith that Isaac would make it into Ultimate quite a while ago. I guess I was expecting to be let down again (like what happened with Takamaru... Again), and sort of just accepted it wasn't happening beforehand so that I wouldn't be too disappointed when it didn't. That, and all the box talk really brought my hopes down.

However, after this leak came out, I feel like my hopes have been restored.

I really, really hope this leak turns out to be true.
 

Tetiro

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Duck Hunt and Ice Climber are both in Other. Sakurai specifically said that franchises with only one game don't get their own category. That would also apply to Mach Rider.
It would make sense. There are many IPs out there Nintendo owns that actually just have the one game and class as a once-off not a series. Not every new IP is successful like Splatoon after all.
 

pholtos

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I essentially think that what it comes down to is the next non-echo reveals. I.E. Geno, B&K, Isaac, Geno, Chorus Kids or Mach Rider.
If one of those gets revealed, this is probably real.
Shadow and Ken felt obvious for the most part, like Isabelle did.

If I had to guess the most likely to show up in a normal direct at this point would be... Chorus Kids or Isaac. Maybe an echo, too. Both have a possibility of a game being advertised with them, in my opinion.

Naturally this is only the case if the leak is true. :p
But that's how I feel.
 

Metocles

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Copy pasting my post from the general thread, I am sorry to be the bearer of (possible) bad news. Hopefully Isaac is still in.


So for those who read my previous comments. I wanted to believe this leak very much and I was trying hard to prove it to be true. Vaanrose and I took all versions of the mural and started pinpointing "spots" that have never been visible in any version (when characters get moved around, some new spots get revealed and some new spots get obscured, but some spots are obscured in every single version) and then compared those spots in the leak to the E3. In every single case, they were different. In fact, as far as I could tell, every place where the leak differs to the E3 mural is exactly a place that has been obscured in every version.

This leads me to believe that this leak is probably fake. Vaanrose showed me how easy it is to cut a character and have photoshop fill in the blank space for you with an appropriate looking space.

My theory, that I can prove by doing it myself, is that whoever made the leak basically took all previous versions of the poster, cut all characters from each version and then combined all what he had. He then either had photoshop fill in the blank spaces left, or filled him out himself (these are all the spaces that are just wrong).

I myself found 7 different inconsistencies in this way that Vaanrose had not previously listed (so add those to the list he has already provided).
You might be able to try debunking the background, but any minor blemishes or things not matching up pales in comparison to the rest of the information we have working with here. I've seen the comparisons everyone's pointing out and I'm not colored impressed with disproving the leak.

If one static, blurry picture is all we had going for this, no one would even give this the time of day to begin with in the first place, but it's not. There's too many details that just work out too well to just be from a mastermind or coincidence. For instance, just the thing the banner is printed on. It's used for advertising materials at stations in stores. To make that, you have to get the scaling and measurements right and have access to specialized printers and knowledge of lithography. There's evidence to show that there's multiple of the same thing being printed, like you think they would for a graphic design company. One person did all of that?

You have other evidence that they're also designing a chandelier in the same manner and the original photos both show it with crystal clarity. Because you have to zoom in and pixelate everything, of course details will be muddied. Crystal positions or clouds not looking right just seems like the wrong angle to take.

Also like Sabrewulf238 Sabrewulf238 posted above me, when all of these characters are moved around, they reveal completely new parts of existing ones. If someone with fantastic artistic and photoshop skills put it together... okay I think I can accept it. But, now you're adding someone who has the most ridiculous looking resume I've ever seen. What can't they do? It takes time and people to put all of this kind of stuff together, and all of this was done in a month with one person?

I haven't even mentioned the Grinch stuff or the CSI work people have done with the actual employee whose name showed up which also corroborate all of this evidence.

Occam's Razor just says otherwise here. I appreciate people trying to temper expectations and find out the root of things before it really burns us because it turns out to be fake. I would love to call it fake if that were the case. Maybe I'm mistaken here and there's something I'm not seeing. Is there a guy out there that has a hobby of mocking up graphic designs of things in his free time? Or even more ridiculous, someone who has the wherewithal to hatch a scheme to make even Professor Moriarty blush? Well, I'll prepare to have my mind blown when that day comes, which is going to be very soon.
 
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