Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[TheSpaceKing12]

Woah, this thread moved pretty fast today, I thought I missed something important that happened.

Fake leaks and vergeben hate.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Fake leaks and vergeben hate.

I don't hate Vergy, I just think He hides behind sources too much. If everything he says can be refuted by saying oh my sources were bad then what's the point in listening in the first place?

 

[Skyblade12]

I’m in it for the long haul. I waited ten years, I can wait twenty more.

Some of us may be dead by then.

 

[MatthewVenusAdept]

I don't hate Vergy, I just think He hides behind sources too much. If everything he says can be refuted by saying oh my sources were bad then what's the point in listening in the first place?

No more leaks, no more verg. There is only... THE ISAAC.

 

[SonicLink125]

No more leaks, no more verg. There is only... THE ISAAC.

"What is an Isaac? Another pile of rocks and 'Animu Swordsmans'. But enough talk, HAVE AT THEE!"

Seriously can't wait to pair up Isaac and Simon against Dracula! Especially get their amiibo!

 

[TappyBat]

i can't be the only person who actually prefers the retranslation of that scene right? the original was so freakin' weird.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

i can't be the only person who actually prefers the retranslation of that scene right? the original was so freakin' weird.

I like the retranslation. More better translation of the original without all the cheeses

 

[ZelDan]

i can't be the only person who actually prefers the retranslation of that scene right? the original was so freakin' weird.

My first time and only times playing SotN were actually through Dracula X Chronicles on PSP, which used the retranslation. I've only heard the original, cheesy version through youtube videos.

 

[GoodGrief741]

i can't be the only person who actually prefers the retranslation of that scene right? the original was so freakin' weird.

I like the retranslation. More better translation of the original without all the cheeses

How dare you people!

 

[jweb23]

Well, that was an interesting 3 or so pages to read through, anyways back to our Golden boy Isaac. (I love how my phone now auto corrects “Golden” to always be capitalized now!) lol

Personally for me Isaac is 100% playable until proven otherwise by none of those five hidden stages being Golden Sun related! I’ve already stated how it makes no sense to hide them unless they are directly related to newcomers or the hidden mode.

As has been stated by many, most of us are still very confident in Isaac’s inclusion. I completely understand if some might have lost a bit of hope but to those I simply say to not only remember the 5 more stages but also the new trademark back in August that covered all possible forms of DLC. Clearly something Golden Sun is coming!

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

滅びよ！ここはお前の住む世界ではない！

The original Japanese for that infamous Symphony of the Night scene is actually very over the top and melodramatic which the original translation captured faithfully, but the difference is that Japanese audiences (and anime/games/manga audiences especially) have a much higher threshold for that kind of cheesy, hammy, corny (I just noticed these are all food words) acting than Western audiences.

Legends of Localization broke it down very well. I love that website. As a translator myself I really admire Clyde Mandelin's (the writer) skill at breaking down these scenes and explaining them in ways that are both comprehensible and entertaining to laymen and enlightening for other translators.

https://legendsoflocalization.com/lets-investigate-a-miserable-pile-of-secrets/

Incidentally that reminds me I've never actually played Golden Sun in Japanese. I was just starting to learn it back when Dark Dawn came out and I haven't really replayed the series since I was a teenager. Maybe that can be a project for next year, especially if Isaac is in Smash.

 

[Undella2]

Maybe they're adding Isaac into Ultimate's base roster, and then making a GS4 and promoting that game by putting it's main protagonist in Ultimate as DLC a la Corrin.

That, I think, would work with the trademark info.

It's a long shot, but just maybe...

 

[jweb23]

Well, that was an interesting 3 or so pages to read through, anyways back to our Golden boy Isaac. (I love how my phone now auto corrects “Golden” to always be capitalized now!) lol

Personally for me Isaac is 100% playable until proven otherwise by none of those five hidden stages being Golden Sun related! I’ve already stated how it makes no sense to hide them unless they are directly related to newcomers or the hidden mode.

As has been stated by many, most of us are still very confident in Isaac’s inclusion. I completely understand if some might have lost a bit of hope but to those I simply say to not only remember the 5 more stages but also the new trademark back in August that covered all possible forms of DLC. Clearly something Golden Sun is coming!

Something else just hit me as I was thinking about everything which is why I quoted my last post as it adds on to it.

What if adult Isaac is an assist trophy??? I think that means Matthew is playable.

Thinking back to some of the recent Smash Ultimate reveals we got Luigi in the Simon trailer and he was using his new poltergust from Luigi’s Mansion 3 which wasn’t even announced yet and Isabelle was used to promote the up coming new Animal Crossing. Well if we take into account of the new trademark then it’s not out of the question to assume we could possibly be getting a remastered collection edition of Golden Sun, The Lost Age and Dark Dawn on the Switch or 3ds (hopefully not the 3ds) with the expectations of a new one later on to finish the series which would of course feature Matthew as the main protagonists.

Do I think this will be the case? Not really. However it is clear that Sakurai’s team created a few of these cgi trailers with knowledge of future games. Also, let’s not forget Hiroyuki Takahashi said that they would make a Golden Sun 4 if enough fans wanted it and I have to believe if Isaac did do well in the Ballot like we all believe he did based on the various polls, then of course Sakurai would go to them for his inclusion which would prove enough fans want it.

Just a random thought I had.

 

[GoldenSunIsAlive]

Wait what happend, I wake up to see the thread move on by 7 pages?

 

[GoodGrief741]

滅びよ！ここはお前の住む世界ではない！

The original Japanese for that infamous Symphony of the Night scene is actually very over the top and melodramatic which the original translation captured faithfully, but the difference is that Japanese audiences (and anime/games/manga audiences especially) have a much higher threshold for that kind of cheesy, hammy, corny (I just noticed these are all food words) acting than Western audiences.

Legends of Localization broke it down very well. I love that website. As a translator myself I really admire Clyde Mandelin's (the writer) skill at breaking down these scenes and explaining them in ways that are both comprehensible and entertaining to laymen and enlightening for other translators.

https://legendsoflocalization.com/lets-investigate-a-miserable-pile-of-secrets/

Incidentally that reminds me I've never actually played Golden Sun in Japanese. I was just starting to learn it back when Dark Dawn came out and I haven't really replayed the series since I was a teenager. Maybe that can be a project for next year, especially if Isaac is in Smash.

Legends of Localization is great. As an Earthbound fan, I’m pretty much obligated to love both it and Tomato.

Maybe they're adding Isaac into Ultimate's base roster, and then making a GS4 and promoting that game by putting it's main protagonist in Ultimate as DLC a la Corrin.

That, I think, would work with the trademark info.

It's a long shot, but just maybe...

I don’t want a repeat of the Corrin situation ever.

Something else just hit me as I was thinking about everything which is why I quoted my last post as it adds on to it.

What if adult Isaac is an assist trophy??? I think that means Matthew is playable.

Thinking back to some of the recent Smash Ultimate reveals we got Luigi in the Simon trailer and he was using his new poltergust from Luigi’s Mansion 3 which wasn’t even announced yet and Isabelle was used to promote the up coming new Animal Crossing. Well if we take into account of the new trademark then it’s not out of the question to assume we could possibly be getting a remastered collection edition of Golden Sun, The Lost Age and Dark Dawn on the Switch or 3ds (hopefully not the 3ds) with the expectations of a new one later on to finish the series which would of course feature Matthew as the main protagonists.

Do I think this will be the case? Not really. However it is clear that Sakurai’s team created a few of these cgi trailers with knowledge of future games. Also, let’s not forget Hiroyuki Takahashi said that they would make a Golden Sun 4 if enough fans wanted it and I have to believe if Isaac did do well in the Ballot like we all believe he did based on the various polls, then of course Sakurai would go to them for his inclusion which would prove enough fans want it.

Just a random thought I had.

Hmmm... I dunno. Going by the ballot it still would make Isaac the likeliest outcome. I think the ballot support for Isaac, plus the mixed reviews for Dark Dawn would lead to Matthew no longer being the sole protagonist of whatever GS4 becomes.

I think a more apt comparison is Simon. He got in because he’s the legend, even though Alucard or Richter advertise the new collection better. Maybe Matthew will be an Echo, or maybe Felix will or maybe neither.

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

Hmm I just think it would be weird to add any non-Isaac characters when Isaac is the one the community has rallied around. It would be like releasing a Tales character that isn't Lloyd or Chun Li instead of Ryu.

If Isaac IS in, I can see either Felix or Matthew as an echo though and I would even say it's likely, but I don't see either being playable INSTEAD of Isaac, if that makes sense.

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

Wait what happend, I wake up to see the thread move on by 7 pages?

Nothing happened. People talked about the weather and it was golden and sunny, and we shall never speak of those pages again.

EDIT: ah my bad guys didn't mean to double post .-.

Is there a way to quote someone into an existing post without making a new one?

 

[pholtos]

You can do such a thing.

Nothing happened. People talked about the weather and it was golden and sunny, and we shall never speak of those pages again.

EDIT: ah my bad guys didn't mean to double post .-.

Is there a way to quote someone into an existing post without making a new one?

By editing, going to the bottom and hitting add quote. And bam.

 

[Chiroz]

I am confused about something. People saying that those who believe in the box AND Vergeben only expect Incineroar and Ken.

Didn't Vergeben say Shadow and some Square Enix rep were in too? How can people who believe only 2 more chars are in, also believe Vergeben who talked about 4.

 

[jweb23]

I am confused about something. People saying that those who believe in the box AND Vergeben only expect Incineroar and Ken.

Didn't Vergeben say Shadow and some Square Enix rep were in too? How can people who believe only 2 more chars are in, also believe Vergeben who talked about 4.

Unless I missed something he has never said Shadow, but he has stated a Square Enix rep is coming but he's not sure if it's base or dlc.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Quick sketch of my first and third most wanted newcomers for Smash Ultimate, Lloyd and Isaac! pic.twitter.com/5uS3paCtLv

— FinsFan (@FinsFan_SSB) October 12, 2018

Someone made fanart of Isaac with our fellow bro Lloyd. Been waiting for something like this

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

I am confused about something. People saying that those who believe in the box AND Vergeben only expect Incineroar and Ken.

Didn't Vergeben say Shadow and some Square Enix rep were in too? How can people who believe only 2 more chars are in, also believe Vergeben who talked about 4.

All right, without any name-calling and without dragging the thread back to the darkest depths, here is my understanding:

Box people seem to believe Ken and Incineroar are the only reveals left because their theory dictates that only two characters are left, Verge has stated that the Square Enix rep could potentially be DLC, and I don't think he's commented on Shadow?

Anyways it's like I've said many times: Verge has a legit track record and he seems convinced Incineroar is in, so if people take him at his word then it is reasonable to believe Tony the Tiger is coming. Ken is basically 99.9% confirmed since the best graphic designers can find nothing wrong with what appears to be a legitimate leak.

Regardless, nobody knows who else is in the game, Verge included (if you believe him). Development on this thing is a black box. Sakurai says not to expect too many fighters and that the pace of reveals will slow down, but those aren't quantifiable statements, and anyone trying to claim they know exactly how many characters are left is speculating. 100%, no questions asked. Isaac has still had all the factors in his favor and against him that he has always had, and even has the Rathalos tweet and premature copyright renewal to pin our hopes on.

 

[JaidynReiman]

he's not sure if it's base or dlc.

He never said this. He said that "of course there's going to be DLC" but as far as I'm aware never backed down directly on saying the fighter would be DLC. And he never once hinted against base roster (which makes no damn sense even if he did make that claim) until Box Theory came out.

All right, without any name-calling and without dragging the thread back to the darkest depths, here is my understanding:

Box people seem to believe Ken and Incineroar are the only reveals left because their theory dictates that only two characters are left, Verge has stated that the Square Enix rep could potentially be DLC, and I don't think he's commented on Shadow?

Anyways it's like I've said many times: Verge has a legit track record and he seems convinced Incineroar is in, so if people take him at his word then it is reasonable to believe Tony the Tiger is coming. Ken is basically 99.9% confirmed since the best graphic designers can find nothing wrong with what appears to be a legitimate leak.

Regardless, nobody knows who else is in the game, Verge included (if you believe him). Development on this thing is a black box. Sakurai says not to expect too many fighters and that the pace of reveals will slow down, but those aren't quantifiable statements, and anyone trying to claim they know exactly how many characters are left is speculating. 100%, no questions asked. Isaac has still had all the factors in his favor and against him that he has always had, and even has the Rathalos tweet and premature copyright renewal to pin our hopes on.

King K. Rool and every Echo Fighter so far has not been leaked by Vergeben. And yeah, he's never said Shadow. Why are so many people attributing things to Vergeben that he never said?


I've seen several people say he said "Everyone is Here", which he never said. LoZ18 said that (along with a random 4chan person who clearly saw the Direct in advance). Vergeben only said (in terms of veterans) "no cuts" and that Snake and IC's would be back (Snake being completely obvious if Simon is in, and IC's... being completely obvious in general).

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

Yeah I don't want to derail the thread again with the V word because this is all stuff that we (and Smashboards as a whole) have been over many many times by now.

Back to Isaac, I really love that bromance between Isaac and Lloyd. Honestly I think it's quite likely we'll see both by the time all is said and done.

 

[Skyblade12]

Yeah I don't want to derail the thread again with the V word because this is all stuff that we (and Smashboards as a whole) have been over many many times by now.

Back to Isaac, I really love that bromance between Isaac and Lloyd. Honestly I think it's quite likely we'll see both by the time all is said and done.

Indeed. Even if not in base, Lloyd has a good shot as DLC, I think.

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

Yeah why would all the other 3rd party companies get 2-3 reps but not Bamco who are developing the actual game? And who is more requested/iconic than Lloyd atm? Maaaaaybe Heihachi but I see him as a distant third personally. Or 4th if we consider Dark Souls to be Bamco

 

[ZelDan]

I forget, how well did Lloyd do in the exit polls? I just haven't seen him mentioned as much as many other highly speculated/wanted characters and for that reason never saw him on the level as the likes as Geno, BWD, Banjo, Isaac, etc. Maybe I'm wrong though...

 

[Skyblade12]

Yeah why would all the other 3rd party companies get 2-3 reps but not Bamco who are developing the actual game? And who is more requested/iconic than Lloyd atm? Maaaaaybe Heihachi but I see him as a distant third personally. Or 4th if we consider Dark Souls to be Bamco

Praise the (Golden) Sun.

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

I forget, how well did Lloyd do in the exit polls? I just haven't seen him mentioned as much as many other highly speculated/wanted characters and for that reason never saw him on the level as the likes as Geno, BWD, Banjo, Isaac, etc. Maybe I'm wrong though...

I’m not sure but he’s way more popular in Japan than in the West. Like a reverse Little Mac in terms of support probably. He’s the most recognizable of his series and Tales is a pretty big deal over here

 

[ZelDan]

I’m not sure but he’s way more popular in Japan than in the West. Like a reverse Little Mac in terms of support probably. He’s the most recognizable of his series and Tales is a pretty big deal over here

I wouldn't doubt he's the most recognizable tales character. I wouldn't be surprised of Symphonia was alot of peoples' first Tales game (like me). Well, maybe for the west anyways...

 

[Machete]

Kinda sad to see the low spirits of some ‘round here. Don’t give up! Sakurai said he looked at the Ballot for character picks and after Ridley and K.Rool there is no doubt Isaac had the strongest performance among first parties.

Incineroar might be in? Sure, but a Gen 7 Pokemon was always gonna happen. A Square Enix character might be in? Sure, but it’s probably Geno, who only further supports the picks being fan-based.

The information drought is sucking, yes, but remember the last time it happened our next infodump was well worth the wait. Can we really expect Splatoon to be the sole new Nintendo IP? Olimar and Shulk being last in our previous hype cycles show Sakurai tends to save the character from a smaller yet dedicated franchise for the end. Sakurai squashed the hopes of Waluigi, Lyn, Midna, Bomber Man, Mimikyu, Ashley and Takamaru early on, we really think Isaac wouldn’t have been disconfirmed early on as well? This is the game that brought K.Rool back from the grave! Custom Robo was abandoned but Golden Sun got its trademark renewed early on. This is by far the best shot Isaac’s had since Brawl.

 

[pholtos]

Kinda sad to see the low spirits of some ‘round here. Don’t give up! Sakurai said he looked at the Ballot for character picks and after Ridley and K.Rool there is no doubt Isaac had the strongest performance among first parties.

Incineroar might be in? Sure, but a Gen 7 Pokemon was always gonna happen. A Square Enix character might be in? Sure, but it’s probably Geno, who only further supports the picks being fan-based.

The information drought is sucking, yes, but remember the last time it happened our next infodump was well worth the wait. Can we really expect Splatoon to be the sole new Nintendo IP? Olimar and Shulk being last in our previous hype cycles show Sakurai tends to save the character from a smaller yet dedicated franchise for the end. Sakurai squashed the hopes of Waluigi, Lyn, Midna, Bomber Man, Mimikyu, Ashley and Takamaru early on, we really think Isaac wouldn’t have been disconfirmed early on as well? This is the game that brought K.Rool back from the grave! Custom Robo was abandoned but Golden Sun got its trademark renewed early on. This is by far the best shot Isaac’s had since Brawl.

I'm reminded of something I posted a while ago, and I really want it to be both true and not true.

I have this fear that the big four of brawl are going to be two of the first reveals and two of the last reveals.
In other words, starting with ridley and k rool, ending with isaac and geno.
So in other words, we might get strung along til the last smash direct.
In other words, argh.

True in them being in, not true in them being held til the last minute. Cause argh, would that be annoying.

 

[Huanchi]

I don't hate Vergy, I just think He hides behind sources too much. If everything he says can be refuted by saying oh my sources were bad then what's the point in listening in the first place?

That would imply that he actual have sources, which is wrong in the first place. He is the only guesser who gets away with saying "sources are wrong" while he is just straight up wrong and lies. Not that i dont want inceneroar or ken... cant wait for the next direct where one of the two gets confirmed and another characters... he will say 100% "One of my sources didnt tell me everything, X still comes but later as a suprise." And people will believe his made up stuff again

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yeah I don't want to derail the thread again with the V word because this is all stuff that we (and Smashboards as a whole) have been over many many times by now.

Sorry. Wasn't trying to derail. Just pointing out something that bugged me.

Back to Isaac, I really love that bromance between Isaac and Lloyd. Honestly I think it's quite likely we'll see both by the time all is said and done.

I love the bromance between Isaac and Lloyd. Lloyd's not like my most wanted or anything, but I'd take him. Definitely who I want to see from Namco and I think he's very, very likely as DLC.

Kinda sad to see the low spirits of some ‘round here. Don’t give up! Sakurai said he looked at the Ballot for character picks and after Ridley and K.Rool there is no doubt Isaac had the strongest performance among first parties.

My spirits aren't low or anything. I'm annoyed about Veggieburger shilling but otherwise I'm good. I still think Isaac is in base roster and nothing but an AT or Sakurai saying "this is the final roster" without Isaac would steer me away from that. Honestly think he's #69 as well, but we'll see how things go. If Incineroar is in, its probably Incineroar instead and Isaac is #70, and I can see it ending on Isaac in that case (Smash games tend to end on new IP character reveals anyway).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Quick sketch of my first and third most wanted newcomers for Smash Ultimate, Lloyd and Isaac! pic.twitter.com/5uS3paCtLv

— FinsFan (@FinsFan_SSB) October 12, 2018

Someone made fanart of Isaac with our fellow bro Lloyd. Been waiting for something like this

I'm loving the idea of Isaac and Lloyd being bros. It's particularly better since they are both playable in SSF2.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

So anyone interested in critiquing my old moveset idea?

Spoiler: Moveset

-Downward slash, the double forward-moving slash
+- Casts a weak , small rock projectile with no knockback that lasts for a short while
+-Uses Punji, casting a bamboo that sprouts from the ground.
+-Uses Growth to cast grass which sprouts from below Isaac
+-Gaia. A shower of Venus energy and boulders rain closely upon the enemy.
+-Thorn. A field of spiked vines sprout out from the ground in front of Isaac. Does not deal much knockback and lasts for a few moments. It does not hurt Isaac, meaning he can use Thorn as a temporary over.
+-Spire.A stalagmite is cast twice. Where the direction held is down-right or down left during these two castings determines where the Spires is casts from, whether it is directly in front of Isaac or behind for for the two castinsg. Thing something sorta like Lucas's Down-Smash.
Aerial- Cast a rock wall in front of him.
Aerial++- Halt. Temporarily stops an opponent mid-movement, stunning them and letting them fall down for a brief movement in an helpless state
Aerial++-Pound. Casts a magical giant hand that pounds the opponent below Isaac. Can be used to spike enemies.
Aerial++-Force. Has good knockback. It involves casting a giant magical fists that leaves after-images behind it
Aerial++-Upwards kick followed by Isaac casting thorny vines above him
+-Sends out a Magical Giant hand after opponent to grab them. Has great range. The pummel would be the Hand crushing the opponent multiple times
+-Front-Slap. Slaps off the opponent, knocking them off forwards.
+-Catch-The Hand throws the opponent upwards
+-Pound. The Hand just crushes the opponent on the stage with a flat hand. Causes the opponent to bounce.
+-Back-Slap-Same as Front-Slap except of course, done backwards.

Special Moves
-Move- works similar to how it did in Brawl, except much smaller, dealing damage and with far less knockback. However, it does have several expanded abilities such as the ability to grab and throw opponents in mid-air.Press once to activate Move. Whilst it is still active, press before it disappears in order to grab the opponent. If successful, one has a short period of time to control the Hand whilst still holding before being forced to throw them. One can throw them in any different direction.

+-Great Wall-Chargeable move. The level of charge that is held determines the distance in which Isaac creates the wall from him as well as its power in terms of damage dealt and knockback given. Great for immediately stopping all momentum of the opponent if they end up in contact with it, as they end up stunned and any damage would be absorbed by the wall. A key move in limiting offensive approach

+-Wild Growth- A great, thick tangle of vines ends up sprouting from a yellow portal made out of Venus energy. Very useful anti-air attack and the primary recovery method that Isaac would use. After Wild Growth stops, Isaac can the climb the vine in order to gain ground. Does not cause helpless state. Can still attack whilst climbing, however, Isaac can only attack with his sword with the button. Another key anti-air move due to its great reach. Useful for attacking opponents directly above you.

+-Quake- The floor that Isaac is on ends up shaking. Opponents that are on the floor or in close proximity are send upwards, bouncing three times before being knocked up upwards

Final Smash

Judgement


As for his gameplay, I expect Isaac's gameplay to be based around anti-air zoning and ground dominance by limiting offensive approaches, heavily relying on his magical hand and his other techniques to bring the opponent down to earth. Whilst he'll be more of a grounded character, I don't expect that he will be heavily relying on mobility as it would be below-average. Rather, he stands his ground and uses techniques such as Quake, Rockfall, Spires and Growth to control and dominate on his own terms.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

So. Have we decided what the official trailer music should be for Isaac?

I thought we agreed on his battle theme, and then if Felix comes too he's most likely using his Brawl remix.

If Isaac gets in, wouldn't it be neat if every smash/special attack he performed had a chance of being an Unleash instead?

I'd rather not have moves with RNG involved, but unleashes should be represented in some way.

I wouldn't doubt he's the most recognizable tales character. I wouldn't be surprised of Symphonia was alot of peoples' first Tales game (like me). Well, maybe for the west anyways...

From what I understand Yuri is the most popular in the Tales community (to a point of getting banned from popularity polls) while Lloyd is the most recognizable by non-Tales fans.

 

[Tiymako]

It appears that we’ve officially become the anti-Verg thread.

Meh.

Naw, more like Anti-Leaker Thread. Haha, we are the new Anti-Villians in town BOIS!!

 

[isaac3000]

Quick sketch of my first and third most wanted newcomers for Smash Ultimate, Lloyd and Isaac! pic.twitter.com/5uS3paCtLv

— FinsFan (@FinsFan_SSB) October 12, 2018

Someone made fanart of Isaac with our fellow bro Lloyd. Been waiting for something like this

Wow Isaac looks amazing there! Love this fan art!

 

[Kisae]

What do you think about the "GreninjaW leak which is very similar to the WFT leak?