Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Dhragen]

One of the reasons i found difficult to accept Steve as a fighter, is that it could potentially mean de deconfirmation of Isaac as a fighter. Sakurai could had considered redundant to include both isaac and steve due to them sharing similar gimmick (stage control by using ground pillars/blocks), and he could favored steve because he could create blocks on the air unlike isaac, making the gimmick more viable for the former (and the fact he can also use a sword)

It's just mere speculation, i guess sakurai could make isaac's gimmick different, but for some reason i can picture Sakurai on that scenario

 

[Frosty Pops]

Based on this information we can probably say nothing is coming out in October, unless Sakurai is mega-trolling us.

Better hope November is one hell of a month

I bet we get at least 1 surprise solo trailer in October (maybe 2 if you are being extremely optimistic)

Edit- spelling

 

[Frosty Pops]

Right now, I have Isaac at around a 60%.

1 - He's a highly requested character from the Smash Community, who's fanbase has shown up in polls across the decade in support of the character and the franchise.
2 - His franchise was a big hit during the GBA days and as far as Nintendo IPs go, is one of the top contenders for representation. We always get new IPs represented each game in the franchise and with first IP choices dwindling, Golden Sun sticks out.
3 - Isaac's moveset has endless possibility thanks to his psynergy and djinni powers. He uses a sword, yes, but he's characterised by his skills as an Adept, which we touched upon in Smash 4 with Robin's mage build, but not to the extent that Isaac could take it.
4 - With King K Rool in the game, relevancy is somewhat meaningless and as Sakurai has stated he's been looking at the ballot for newcomers (At least in Rool's case), Isaac might be in with a shot as he placed well on polls back in 2015.

That being said, Isaac isn't a sure-fire bet. We've been on this road before and been burned many times in the past - The lack of Isaac's assist trophy in Smash 4 being a prime example of this. Without a doubt, Ultimate is Isaac's best shot at making it into the roster, given his limitations as a character who's franchise is currently dormant, and who's placement relies solely on the ballot and fan demand.

I think it is also a point to mention that I truly believe that most 3rd party characters (banjo, geno) have a higher chance of being DLC as it will be easier to tp make bank with them. Therefore the list of contenders Isaac needs to overcome to get into base game may be smaller than we think.

 

[Tiymako]

One of the reasons i found difficult to accept Steve as a fighter, is that it could potentially mean de deconfirmation of Isaac as a fighter. Sakurai could had considered redundant to include both isaac and steve due to them sharing similar gimmick (stage control by using ground pillars/blocks), and he could favored steve because he could create blocks on the air unlike isaac, making the gimmick more viable for the former (and the fact he can also use a sword)

It's just mere speculation, i guess sakurai could make isaac's gimmick different, but for some reason i can picture Sakurai on that scenario

If that is the case, then why reference Golden Sun in a tweet at all? Sakurai wouldn't go out of his way to tease an assist trophy. It just doesn't make any sense, not just that though. I am pretty sure they stated that they had the characters already planned and confirmed in near the end of 2015? So if they had planned this in advanced, which I am sure they did, why change it now? Especially since he has been requested for almost 15+ years at this point and the fan demand is only growing bigger. Besides, I am sure they are saving the best reveals for last. I am thinking Geno, Isaac, Sora, Banjo, etc.

If you want my opinion on Steve, I don't think he really fits the mold of smash bros as a character. Which is why I believe that Minecraft would be just a stage and Steve as an Assist Trophy or as a part of hazards on a stage with all kinds of different Minecraft characters. If he is a playable character, I would be a bit disappointed, but I am starting to warm up to him when I think about it. Not to mention, this is Sakurai we are talking and he has a tendency to be unpredictable and creative enough to make anything work.

When it comes to comparing him to Isaac, it's a whole new ball game my friend. Isaac can conjure, manipulate and control the elements. Where as Steve can only move and place blocks. It's a completely different gimmick in comparison. Which is why I feel he would fit better as an assist trophy to ultilize the placement of blocks, craft random items in battle, makes blocks of walls to block your path etc. I think by accepting the fact that Steve has the possibility to be in Smash now, I can adjust to the idea of him and if he doesn't get annouced as a playable it would be something I would be fine with on both sides of the spectrum.

Never was a fan of Minecraft, but the creativity that the game provides and the popularity of it. Is undeniable and very impressive.

 

[TempestSurge]

You don't have to be good at drawing to make memes. Just slap some text on a stock image. Cut and paste Isaac's face on things...

Obligatory to bring back.

This is still pretty much the dream to have, getting Isaac and his stage, assist to replace him, Matthew as an alt, Felix as an echo, and an accompanying boss. Nintendo owns this IP, they can go completely wild lol.

 

[Q-Long]

I think a lot of the stigma against Steve is the stigma attached to Minecraft as a result of Youtube. Games like Angry Birds, Five Night At Freddys, Fortnight, Pubg, also have this kind of stigma because the Youtubers who play those games usually are really obnoxious. Of course its not really Steve's fault. Its just a lot of people are sensitive about bringing this type of audience into Smash. Not only that, Steve isn't a legend like Snake, Megaman, Ryu, Simon, Cloud, etc. By changing the way 3rd parties are added into Smash, a lot of fans of Nintendo characters, particularly of underepresented or dead franchises are nervous about the competition Steve's inclusion might invite.

On the flip side, think about all the kids who get into Smash cause Steve's on the cover. By proxy, they will discover the worlds of Samus, Marth, Falcon, Fox, Ness, and more.

I am curious...
What is everyone's top 10 games of all time? I want to see the gaming taste of fellow Isaac fans.
.

Hmm... in no particular order:

1. Fire Emblem : Path of Radiance
2. Metal Gear Solid 2
3. Super Smash Bros Melee
4. Castlevania IV
5. Dark Souls
6. Devil May Cry 3
7. Resident Evil 4
8. Mother 3
9. Yakuza 0
10. Final Fantasy : Crystal Chronicles

It was really difficult choosing 10 lol

 

[Mehdow]

Obligatory to bring back.

View attachment 166915

This is still pretty much the dream to have, getting Isaac and his stage, assist to replace him, Matthew as an alt, Felix as an echo, and an accompanying boss. Nintendo owns this IP, they can go completely wild lol.

Hah yeah...
I think that's the best part of getting GS in Smash as you said:
- Character (or more if echo)
- New versions of epic GS music
- Stage, nostalgia filled for GS fans
- Items (probably)
- AT (probably)
- Impressive Final Smash (just think about getting Judgement for Isaac and Catastrophe for Felix in HD)
- PROOF THAT GOLDEN SUN IT'S NOT DEAD DAMMIT

 

[Tiymako]

I think it is also a point to mention that I truly believe that most 3rd party characters (banjo, geno) have a higher chance of being DLC as it will be easier to tp make bank with them. Therefore the list of contenders Isaac needs to overcome to get into base game may be smaller than we think.

Let's see than, the list of First Party to most likely to compete with as of unique characters are. Isaac, Skull Kid, A Rythym Heaven Rep, Bandana Waddle Dee, and Pokemon Rep. Yeah, I can see the list is a lot smaller when it comes to first party legacy characters. Although, I don't want anymore Pokemon except for new Pokemon Assists. Compared to the list of Third Party we have, Geno, Banjo, Lloyd, Shantae, Rayman, Sora, Springman/Ribbon Girl, Heihachi, Rex and Pyra, and Not Goku.

 

[Q-Long]

A song from a game featuring another Isaac...

ayyy someone else played this game. nice

 

[TempestSurge]

Btw some time after the Smash Direct I remember someone saying (I can't remember where) that the japanese voice actor for Krystal was also who did Isaac voice clips, and that new clips from that voice actor were being recorded...

Also I think they said that Krystal will use her previous voice clips in English, so they don't needed her english VA again..... so maybe they're using the japanese VA to record other clips not related to Krystal.

I'm mistaken? It's true or just speculation?

Edit: grammar and structure.

I do remember back during page 100s or something joking about how they could kill two birds with one stone with Krystal's Japanese VA and Issac in the recording studio but that's about it. I thought it was just funny seeing Krystal at the top of the assist trophy list on the Rathalos tweet knowing she shares a VA with Isaac.

Though I actually forgot about that entirely since it's been so long since it was brought up. If Isaac had an official English VA, it'd be an easy hop over to said Twitter to see if they were, 'Working on some exciting projects that I can't talk about yet!' Like Shulk's VA back in the day. But perks of a silent protagonist.

 

[SmashBro99]

Really losing hope.

Not a fan of any newcomers outside of K. Rool, and I think thats all I'm getting out of my picks.

Isabelle destroyed my hype for newcomers and now possibly Steve, really? Minecraft should have a stage, and he should be an Assist Trophy at best, but it's a huge game and Sakurai likes it, so he's in...probably over Banjo which more people actually want. I like how everyone's bandwagoning for Steve now, I guess because he's likely and people just want to say they were right when hes shown *facepalm*

He does his best to please everyone, he just always seems to let ME down, when it comes to new characters I actually care about in this game anyway. I hope our 1 player mode is awesome.

 

[Delta64]

I just thought of something. What if Minecraft gets the same treatment as Monster Hunter, an assist trophy (maybe a stage)? While I still do not think we will get any Minecraft anything in Smash, there was a time I thought the same thing about Monster Hunter.

Considering five 3rd party companies are involved in Smash so far (Sega, Capcom, Bandai Namco, Square Enix, and Konami), it seems like it would be difficult to work things out with any other 3rd party company, much less a company like Microsoft (a company like Ubisoft would be far easier to work with). I do think that we are likely to get at least one new series but, getting another company involved at this point seems so unlikely.

 

[Undella2]

I had a several-hour-long dream where both Isaac and Mia became playable newcomers, and Mia had an extremely high-pitched voice.

Needless to say, I need the next reveal trailer to drop because I'm starting to lose it.

 

[FlintIke]

I am curious...
What is everyone's top 10 games of all time? I want to see the gaming taste of fellow Isaac fans.

1) Fire Emblem Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn (but gameplaywise I like RD more)
2) Final Fantasy Tactics, 8, 10 and 15
3) Trails of Cold Steel Series (PART 3 AND 4 WHEN?!)
4) Golden Sun Series (didn't like the DS one as much though)
5) God Eater Series
6) Persona/SMT Series
7) Skies of Arcadia
8) Yakuza Series
9) Xenosaga Series
10) Star Ocean Series

I have to admit that's an unfair question, since I love so many games and I don't 100 % know how to rank them besides my top 3 xD I also have to mention games like Dragon Quest, .hack, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry, No More Heroes, Alundra, Resident Evil, Tales of series and many more.

 

[ferioku]

LOOOOL these comments seriously make me laugh!!!

 

[Frosty Pops]

Just a quick question for everyone.

What actually makes you want Isaac as a playable character so badly? I mean like I know you like Golden Sun and would like another game but lets play imagination and say we already got a Golden Sun game - would you still vote for him? I personally would.

I mean like, there are a handful of characters out there that are as deserving as him, but I don't know what personally makes me want him as a playable so bad. It's probably the uniqueness and the fact that I want something that is "out of reach" in many peoples eyes, I want to see the excitement of all the fans that supported him and the haters to keep to eat their words. Man that vision would be so delightful.

3 words f****** earth psynergy!! Lol

But in all seriousness the GS series is some of my favorite games of all time. Isaac as a character "albeit a silent one" is very loved by all fans of the series. And while yes I do like a few of the other characters that are possible for Smash none of them impacted me like GS.

 

[LuminoZero]

LOOOOL these comments seriously make me laugh!!!

My favorite lost! HAX!

 

[ferioku]

3 words f****** earth psynergy!! Lol

But in all seriousness the GS series is some of my favorite games of all time. Isaac as a character "albeit a silent one" is very loved by all fans of the series. And while yes I do like a few of the other characters that are possible for Smash none of them impacted me like GS.

I agree 100%, There is no other candidate that I cold actually see myself voting for until Isaac is an actual playable character! Talking about his limitless potential and uniqueness is a statement in itself - which is why I wonder why people claim him as a "bland" character. He literally has a lot going for him, and i mean like, common, we don't have anyone that utilizes a giant hand or even earth synergy and that in itself is a moveset!

My favorite lost! HAX!

He clearly know who Isaac and Lloyd are, he's just upset. -_-

Anyyyway, the more Isaac gets exposure the more popular he becomes

 

[Frosty Pops]

I feel like Sakurai is a little more the literal word of God in these situations. That's not speculation, that's the man himself telling you that things will slow down and we might not see as many characters left overall. I think it's an appropriately depressing sentiment. Mostly because you can't argue a way around it when Sakurai says something. And sure, we may have more overall than we expected with his E3 comments, but there does come a limit to things, and we're fast approaching the time for that limit to be at the forefront of speculation.

His comments don't directly affect Isaac at least, but it does put him in the place of facing a lot of opposition for limited spots. Possibly one or two unique newcomers are left, and around 10 major names are standing with a certain "claim" to those spots. It's actually time for "Kutthroat (Glad I can still use that)" speculation if all the evidence is to be believed. Though add in the additional fears that Verge is absolute, or box theory as a whole, and things get even more dicey. Incineroar isn't exactly one of those 10 beloved names, he's just a part of speculation now, same as Steve... Makes speculation a whole lot less fun when half the room is arguing that these two are that we have left, and the other half is bickering over who deserves the other spot. Not to mention anything out of the left field will throw the balance off even more.

If nothing else...we have to believe that Nintendo and the 3rd party owners want to make as much money as possible off of DLC characters. If this is the case I would almost guarantee that big casual characters like Steve, "insert Pokemon rep", Banjo, Shadow, as well as a few others have been planned as DLC and not as part of the base roster. This to me would be our best hope for Isaac.

 

[Frosty Pops]

I agree 100%, There is no other candidate that I cold actually see myself voting for until Isaac is an actual playable character! Talking about his limitless potential and uniqueness is a statement in itself - which is why I wonder why people claim him as a "bland" character. He literally has a lot going for him, and i mean like, common, we don't have anyone that utilizes a giant hand or even earth synergy and that in itself is a moveset!

He clearly know who Isaac and Lloyd are, he's just upset. -_-

Anyyyway, the more Isaac gets exposure the more popular he becomes

It is funny because most people who claim he is bland...know absolutely nothing about him. Show someone a pic of Isaac and they say "doesn't look very interesting" then show them a video of all of Isaac's moves then they say "whoa that is pretty awesome!"

 

[Billybae10K]

We lost by around 200 votes to Banjo. But we can still come back through the Loser's Bracket.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Well, we lost against Banjo. By 300 votes. So much for showing everyone that Isaac is #1.

Anyways, another poll. Vote for Isaac.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...834vote_using_poll_randomized_smash_ultimate/

 

[?!?!?!]

I guessed 53% for banjo, but he got 53.6% :d

 

[Xenigma]

Well, we lost against Banjo. By 300 votes. So much for showing everyone that Isaac is #1.

Anyways, another poll. Vote for Isaac.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...834vote_using_poll_randomized_smash_ultimate/

Two Nintendo characters versus two non-Nintendo characters? Seems like two easy votes to me.

 

[Jurae818]

Sorry for neglecting this thread. Hang in there, you guys. I said this in another thread, and I'll abridge it: All 'leaks' are speculation. If there were actual evidence of them being real, they would have been shut down ages ago. There are people who hate your character who are actively trying to make him hated by giving these baseless leaks traction. Until Sakurai reveals any of these supposed characters officially, do not take them to heart.

I repeat: Do not take these leaks to heart.

 

[Fire Tactician]

Sora vs. Geno

This is going to get ugly... That said, it's an easy vote for Sora for me. Relevant character with many games on Nintendo system vs. an old character who has only made one proper appearance in a game... it might be a more complicated matter for me if they were owned by different companies, but they're both SE properties. I think people are drastically overlooking the general public's knowledge of these characters...

Isaac vs. Amaterasu

The wolf's a cool character, but an easy Isaac for me.

 

[clearandsweet]

If that is the case, then why reference Golden Sun in a tweet at all? Sakurai wouldn't go out of his way to tease an assist trophy. It just doesn't make any sense, not just that though. I am pretty sure they stated that they had the characters already planned and confirmed in near the end of 2015? So if they had planned this in advanced, which I am sure they did, why change it now? Especially since he has been requested for almost 15+ years at this point and the fan demand is only growing bigger. Besides, I am sure they are saving the best reveals for last. I am thinking Geno, Isaac, Sora, Banjo, etc.

That's the thing I can't get over. The leak zeitgeist shifts on to Ken and Incineroar and I'm just sitting here thinking... so Sakurai straight up lied to us?

A tweet like that, from a director who hates misleading or building up expectations too high... that's about as close to a confirmation as you can possibly have. He knew. He knows. We know he knows. He knows we know.

Isaac's chances haven't worsened after peaking at that tweet. Any leak or leaker that doesn't have Isaac addressed is suspect in my eyes. I trust Sakurai far more than I trust Vergiben, a box or one of the -monagatari girls.

I am curious...
What is everyone's top 10 games of all time? I want to see the gaming taste of fellow Isaac fans.

1. Majora's Mask
2. Golden Sun/TLA
3. Advance Wars: Dual Strike
4. Valkyria Chronicles
5. Dungeon Fighter Online
6. Tactics Ogre: Knights of Lodis
7. Pokemon Heart Gold/Soul Silver (maybe Black and White 2 tho...)
8. World of Warcraft
9. Nier: Automata
10. Metroid Prime

 

[leon3789]

Wow, it's actually really refreshing to find so much support for Isaac, I'm used to people being shot down when he's being brought up recently. This actually kinda renews my hopes of him being in Ultimate a bit.

 

[LuminoZero]

Wow, it's actually really refreshing to find so much support for Isaac, I'm used to people being shot down when he's being brought up recently. This actually kinda renews my hopes of him being in Ultimate a bit.

He'll be there, mark my words.

I'm not a leaker or anybody with insider knowledge, FYI, I just fully believe that Isaac is 100% guaranteed.

 

[leon3789]

He'll be there, mark my words.

I'm not a leaker or anybody with insider knowledge, FYI, I just fully believe that Isaac is 100% guaranteed.

I'm in this weird state of both being confident he'll make it and thinking it just won't happen. I just don't know what to think about Isaac's chance lately lol

But atleast this seems like a MUCH better place to discuss him then Gamefaqs.

 

[JaidynReiman]

We lost by around 200 votes to Banjo. But we can still come back through the Loser's Bracket.

Honestly not bad. I figured we'd lose, but that's a lot closer than I ever expected it would be.

 

[Fire Tactician]

I'm in this weird state of both being confident he'll make it and thinking it just won't happen. I just don't know what to think about Isaac's chance lately lol

But atleast this seems like a MUCH better place to discuss him then Gamefaqs.

Honestly, that's a safe place to be at- it won't kill your hype, but it won't set you up for disappointment. The way I see it, no character is guaranteed a spot and there are many worthy choices, so if mine don't make it in, at least someone's will.

I'm casually optimistic about Elma and Isaac for that reason.

 

[?!?!?!]

Have you guys seen this?: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9j92u9/spoilers_twitter_account_predicted_isabelle_and/

His "guesses" aren't too wild but having the specifics for the Isabelle trailer is interesting. The final characters he's predicting are mostly pretty obvious choices, but what do you guys think?

 

[LuminoZero]

Have you guys seen this?: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9j92u9/spoilers_twitter_account_predicted_isabelle_and/

His "guesses" aren't too wild but having the specifics for the Isabelle trailer is interesting. The final characters he's predicting are mostly pretty obvious choices, but what do you guys think?

Seen it, doesn't have Isaac, don't believe it.

I'm a simple man.

 

[FantastiqueFran]

I don't know. It's looking like a 50/50 chance as of now. I mean, I wouldn't mind seeing Ken as an echo for Ryu and I'll take Incineroar with a grain of salt since it is a "tradition" to add a new Pokemon in each new iteration of Smash.

But Steve? Nah, I'll pass.

Minecraft is immensely popular to this day and sure, his inclusion as a playable character would bring in a plethora of younger fans, but it just wouldn't feel right. When I think of Minecraft, I immediately think of Microsoft, one of the big three console developers competing against Nintendo. But who knows? Anything can happen. At the very least, I can see Steve as an Assist Trophy or a regular trophy. A stage based off Minecraft wouldn't be so bad; heck, having the Creeper as an item would be pretty cool.

I'm still holding on to some hope that Isaac will be a playable character in the base game. Despite the arguments that he's just "another anime swordsman," I think he's a much preferable "anime swordsman" than most of the current cast of swordfighters. He stands out from the rest and he'd be a great alternative to Robin. He has the potential to have a viable moveset and he'd be the essential "stage-manipulating" character since he uses earth psynergy.

On a side note, while I like Felix I don't think he'll be an echo fighter for Isaac. Matthew from DD will probably be his echo fighter, mostly because the devs won't have to do too much remodeling for Isaac's current model.

 

[leon3789]

Honestly, that's a safe place to be at- it won't kill your hype, but it won't set you up for disappointment. The way I see it, no character is guaranteed a spot and there are many worthy choices, so if mine don't make it in, at least someone's will.

I'm casually optimistic about Elma and Isaac for that reason.

I think the sad part is if Isaac doesn't make it in, even if I don't expect him, I'm kinda disappointed. Don't get me wrong I'm going to buy and love Ultimate no matter what, but it's just the Newcomers this time around aren't doing it for me, no characters that were on my top wanted list so far, and no weird out there characters that end up getting me to try new games (Like Shulk in Smash 4)

Have you guys seen this?: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9j92u9/spoilers_twitter_account_predicted_isabelle_and/

His "guesses" aren't too wild but having the specifics for the Isabelle trailer is interesting. The final characters he's predicting are mostly pretty obvious choices, but what do you guys think?

That is very odd in how good this person seems to be in predictions...Almost to the point of worrying, but I'm still holding on to I just don't see Steve as a character in smash. I just can't see him fitting personally.

 

[Klimax]

I voted for Isaac my friends, I like Amaterasu but as someone who now has Geno as his most wanted newcomer, I have to vote for Isaac. He's like Isaac's bro now.
To be honest, I think Isaac will beat Amaterasu, i predict something like 70/30

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

I don't know. It's looking like a 50/50 chance as of now. I mean, I wouldn't mind seeing Ken as an echo for Ryu and I'll take Incineroar with a grain of salt since it is a "tradition" to add a new Pokemon in each new iteration of Smash.

But Steve? Nah, I'll pass.

Minecraft is immensely popular to this day and sure, his inclusion as a playable character would bring in a plethora of younger fans, but it just wouldn't feel right. When I think of Minecraft, I immediately think of Microsoft, one of the big three console developers competing against Nintendo. But who knows? Anything can happen. At the very least, I can see Steve as an Assist Trophy or a regular trophy. A stage based off Minecraft wouldn't be so bad; heck, having the Creeper as an item would be pretty cool.

I'm still holding on to some hope that Isaac will be a playable character in the base game. Despite the arguments that he's just "another anime swordsman," I think he's a much preferable "anime swordsman" than most of the current cast of swordfighters. He stands out from the rest and he'd be a great alternative to Robin. He has the potential to have a viable moveset and he'd be the essential "stage-manipulating" character since he uses earth psynergy.

On a side note, while I like Felix I don't think he'll be an echo fighter for Isaac. Matthew from DD will probably be his echo fighter, mostly because the devs won't have to do too much remodeling for Isaac's current model.

Honestly, I think Matthew would be an alt for isaac with him looking near identical.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Voted for Isaac and Geno, an easy decision for me.

Edit: Just noticed if Isaac wins this round he's on a collision course with my third most wanted character Phoenix Wright, lovely. Though I guess I shouldn't complain! It means my top three are all supported enough to reach this point in the competition.

 

[?!?!?!]

Seen it, doesn't have Isaac, don't believe it.

I'm a simple man.

I like the way you think