Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Q-Long]

The Ultimate thread is....so toxic.

I don't know what the deal is with the atmosphere of that thread. A lot of them seem to place themselves on the moral highground for thinking that Steve would be a great fit for Smash and anyone who disagrees is just a salty, deluded fanboy.

Haha yes, this pretty much. Its not even their support of Steve that annoys me, its shuting everyone down who would rather want someone else as being a salty fanboy like you said. Usually with complete strawmen too

 

[tveye]

Haha yes, this pretty much. Its not even their support of Steve that annoys me, its shuting everyone down who would rather want someone else as being a salty fanboy like you said. Usually with complete strawmen too

I don't know why it's so taboo to hate on a character in Smash Bros. How are we possibly supposed to like every choice made? I get it, Isabelle has a ton of fans. Personally though, I'm not into cutesy looking characters. I actually find Ridley pretty adorable though.

 

[QcSlayer]

So today we have yet another anime Swordman and a Gomba whit an hat on reddit, Isaac vs Banjo should be soon I think.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...zed_smash_ultimate/?utm_source=reddit-android

 

[Q-Long]

I don't know why it's so taboo to hate on a character in Smash Bros. How are we possibly supposed to like every choice made? I get it, Isabelle has a ton of fans. Personally though, I'm not into cutesy looking characters. I actually find Ridley pretty adorable though.

Pac-Man is pretty cute . :b

Also yes, Ridley was unusually sassy there.

I want to add that those dudes don't even actively support Steve, more like they just have a need to be condescending, only when the leak appeared and people started complaining did they get like that.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm bored.

As far as I'm concerned, Ken IS in the game. I mean, it's very obvious that Ken will be playable as Ryu's echo, as Ken was arguably one of the earliest clone characters in video game history, but that image is... bleh.

 

[Rethuic]

Pac-Man is pretty cute . :b

Also yes, Ridley was unusually sassy there.

I want to add that those dudes don't even actively support Steve, more like they just have a need to be condescending, only when the leak appeared and people started complaining did they get like that.

Should Steve fall into the pits of "unplayable," a lot of good could actually happen for us. Vergeben wouldn't be seen as an absolute prophet, people will realize how stupid they were, and the community would get less toxic. I haven't visited the Ultimate thread, but I think a lot of the toxicity stems from "Verge is a prophet. Unless he says so, insert character is not in."

 

[tveye]

Pac-Man is pretty cute . :b

Lol, he sure is. But I like Pac-Man not for his cuteness but for everything else about him. He's just such an important character to gaming as a whole and while I don't think his moveset does his own series much justice, it's still pretty unique and well thought out.

 

[Q-Long]

Lol, he sure is. But I like Pac-Man not for his cuteness but for everything else about him. He's just such an important character to gaming as a whole and while I don't think his moveset does his own series much justice, it's still pretty unique and well thought out.

Yeah, he feels like he is a "retro Namco rep", sort of like how Villager has Balloon Fighter moves or Duck Hunt has Hogan's Alley moves.

Should Steve fall into the pits of "unplayable," a lot of good could actually happen for us. Vergeben wouldn't be seen as an absolute prophet, people will realize how stupid they were, and the community would get less toxic. I haven't visited the Ultimate thread, but I think a lot of the toxicity stems from "Verge is a prophet. Unless he says so, insert character is not in."

I dont want anyones character to not get in so mine can, but i feel like verge is sort of like the gematsu leak. not everything will be right until we get a roster screenshot

 

[Skyblade12]

Should Steve fall into the pits of "unplayable," a lot of good could actually happen for us. Vergeben wouldn't be seen as an absolute prophet, people will realize how stupid they were, and the community would get less toxic. I haven't visited the Ultimate thread, but I think a lot of the toxicity stems from "Verge is a prophet. Unless he says so, insert character is not in."

Just like Gematsu.

Unfortunately, I don’t think that will happen. Steve can’t be disconfirmed, because if he’s not playable, he just won’t be in the game.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Should Steve fall into the pits of "unplayable," a lot of good could actually happen for us. Vergeben wouldn't be seen as an absolute prophet, people will realize how stupid they were, and the community would get less toxic. I haven't visited the Ultimate thread, but I think a lot of the toxicity stems from "Verge is a prophet. Unless he says so, insert character is not in."

That doesn't even make sense since Vergeben actively tried to find out if King K. Rool was in the game but he couldn't get confirmation.

He most certainly isn't a prophet, even if he does have legitimate contacts in the industry.

 

[Confirmation]

Just like Gematsu.

Unfortunately, I don’t think that will happen. Steve can’t be disconfirmed, because if he’s not playable, he just won’t be in the game.

If they ever show Minecraft content without Steve, we can pretty much write him off.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Just like Gematsu.

Unfortunately, I don’t think that will happen. Steve can’t be disconfirmed, because if he’s not playable, he just won’t be in the game.

He can be disconfirmed if he's an assist trophy or if he makes a cameo appearance in Spirits mode. (Really he could be soft-disconfirmed if we get Minecraft content revealed without him making appearance)

I'm not really of the mindset that Minecraft content isn't going to be in the game, I just don't really believe it means Steve is playable just yet. (I'm pretty sure even Vergeben hasn't stated that Steve is playable, so it sounds like people are getting carried away)

 

[FlintIke]

Another thing about Neogaf it was also one of the early ones to list Isaac as playable, when Isaac was still seen as this niche character from a dead series that no one cared to place on their top smash ultimate newcomers list.

Though the part regarding Terra, this might make them a bit more unlikely.

Sakurai: "But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are."

Though if we think of Gematsu, it was right up until a point, Chrom and Chorus Kids didn't happen. And there's always the Sakurai factor where he says a character can't happen one game but make them work the next. But I feel like Geno is more likely to be the possible Square rep with this game focusing on fanservice/the ballot.

I have to admit, I think this leak might actually end up just like the gematsu one like Idk maybe Monster Hunter, Terra and so on were planned early on development but were scratched later on (for example Rathalos appeared without the Hunter) while Isaac,Felix,Soren and Ken are getting confirmed and would make this leak happen to be similar to Gematsu.

If we rly get Isaac, Felix, Soren and Ken and nothing else I am rly convinced that this might end up like Gematsu, cause there is no way in hell that you can predict Soren just like that lol.

And yeah just like you said, I think he was one of the first, if not THE first to predict Isaac (?)

Anyway I will wait for the next Smash Direct cause I get the feeling that it will either kill this leak or give it more credibility. Fingers crossed Golden Sun will finally get some love in it!!!

EDIT: And also I can see a Minecraft Stage happening. But Steve as a playable character... I don't know about that.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

We're getting into the really interesting leak territory. A video leak could drop any day now.

I Just want Isaac to get a legit looking leak like Ken got.

 

[jweb23]

This is actually pretty interesting, if this was indeed pre-August 8. All information over time has pushed our expectations down to like 3-4 uniques and a random number of echoes, and it has several characters nobody would see coming and thus would confirm it (ie Soren).

We have no indication on whether different teams work on regular Directs vs Smash Directs, but it would be an explanation on why they wouldn't have Isabelle

I don’t have a screenshot of the original post but I do have a screenshot of someone responding to the post as well as quoting it so we now know for a fact that “leak” was posted before July 4th.

 

[Rethuic]

We're getting into the really interesting leak territory. A video leak could drop any day now.

I Just want Isaac to get a legit looking leak like Ken got.

I mentioned that 4chan was supposed to have a video leak with Steve or someone in it, though there have been a lot of rick-rolls.

 

[pholtos]

Why is it that so many people misspell Isaac's name as Issac? That just looks so ech.

 

[Rethuic]

Why is it that so many people misspell Isaac's name as Issac? That just looks so ech.

I'm not surprised. A simple mispel is quite common. Also, I have heard people pronounce Isaac as ee-sok, so people might think "Oh, the name starts with I and is pronounced that way? Must be Issac."

 

[Metocles]

I dunno; common talk is that we have another FE echo in Black Knight. While Soren is more WTF, I could see it.

Sakurai could've gotten annoyed at how fans reacted negatively to all the FE in Smash and was like "fine, we'll compromise. I'll still add a couple Fire Emblem characters but they're echoes so you can't complain"

There is a very interesting thing to note here in the case of Soren, just playing Devil's Advocate of course. We all know that the Black Knight is missing from the FE stage he appeared previously on. So, he's basically been speculated to being a boss potentially for the Spirits mode as well. He could probably work as one looking at how Dracula fights in the capacity he does. He would be a much easier boss to implement than many of the final dragons you fight in FE as well. Well I guess you can see where I'm going with this...

If Black Knight is a boss... is Soren put in the game to help Ike fight him? Bringing back BK into the mix perhaps means you bring some of the elements of the Radiance games with it and Soren would obviously be a part of that. Plus, what is the main complaint that people have with FE characters? I think more than just being there's too many of them is that they're not diverse enough. Basically too many sword fighters. So to counter that, do you put in another mage character? Since everybody's back, it's too late to get off the FE train. Just something interesting is all.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I was looking at the Wikia page for Soren earlier and there's a video at the top of the page.

The guy pronounces Ike like "Ee-kay", I'm being serious.

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Soren

 

[alguidrag]

I have to admit, I think this leak might actually end up just like the gematsu one like Idk maybe Monster Hunter, Terra and so on were planned early on development but were scratched later on (for example Rathalos appeared without the Hunter) while Isaac,Felix,Soren and Ken are getting confirmed and would make this leak happen to be similar to Gematsu.

If we rly get Isaac, Felix, Soren and Ken and nothing else I am rly convinced that this might end up like Gematsu, cause there is no way in hell that you can predict Soren just like that lol.

And yeah just like you said, I think he was one of the first, if not THE first to predict Isaac (?)

Anyway I will wait for the next Smash Direct cause I get the feeling that it will either kill this leak or give it more credibility. Fingers crossed Golden Sun will finally get some love in it!!!

EDIT: And also I can see a Minecraft Stage happening. But Steve as a playable character... I don't know about that.

If we get Soren that leak is real for sure, no one was crazy enough to predict Soren

 

[Undella2]

All this talk about Fire Emblem characters, and I'm just here thinking that Fire Emblem, despite having 7 confirmed characters so far, is sorely lacking in stage number/diversity.

Where's the "Upon the Fell Dragon's Back" stage? Where's the "Kingdom of Archanea" stage? Where's something more interesting then a generic castle siege and two arena stages?

 

[jweb23]

All this talk about Fire Emblem characters, and I'm just here thinking that Fire Emblem, despite having 7 confirmed characters so far, is sorely lacking in stage number/diversity.

Where's the "Upon the Fell Dragon's Back" stage? Where's the "Kingdom of Archanea" stage? Where's something more interesting then a generic castle siege and two arena stages?

Thank you!!! I thought I was the only one feeling that way. Fighting on the back of Grima would have been one of the greatest Smash stages ever! Shame we simply got the arena from Awakening

 

[SonicLink125]

There is a very interesting thing to note here in the case of Soren, just playing Devil's Advocate of course. We all know that the Black Knight is missing from the FE stage he appeared previously on. So, he's basically been speculated to being a boss potentially for the Spirits mode as well. He could probably work as one looking at how Dracula fights in the capacity he does. He would be a much easier boss to implement than many of the final dragons you fight in FE as well. Well I guess you can see where I'm going with this...

If Black Knight is a boss... is Soren put in the game to help Ike fight him? Bringing back BK into the mix perhaps means you bring some of the elements of the Radiance games with it and Soren would obviously be a part of that. Plus, what is the main complaint that people have with FE characters? I think more than just being there's too many of them is that they're not diverse enough. Basically too many sword fighters. So to counter that, do you put in another mage character? Since everybody's back, it's too late to get off the FE train. Just something interesting is all.

Dang it! You beat me to it. Had that same thought too. XD

 

[FlintIke]

There is a very interesting thing to note here in the case of Soren, just playing Devil's Advocate of course. We all know that the Black Knight is missing from the FE stage he appeared previously on. So, he's basically been speculated to being a boss potentially for the Spirits mode as well. He could probably work as one looking at how Dracula fights in the capacity he does. He would be a much easier boss to implement than many of the final dragons you fight in FE as well. Well I guess you can see where I'm going with this...

If Black Knight is a boss... is Soren put in the game to help Ike fight him? Bringing back BK into the mix perhaps means you bring some of the elements of the Radiance games with it and Soren would obviously be a part of that. Plus, what is the main complaint that people have with FE characters? I think more than just being there's too many of them is that they're not diverse enough. Basically too many sword fighters. So to counter that, do you put in another mage character? Since everybody's back, it's too late to get off the FE train. Just something interesting is all.

Call me crazy but I could absolutely see that happening.

I could somehow see a CGI Trailer where Ike fights the BK (either in the ashera tower or the map on chapter 27 in PoR, I forgot the name) and at the moment where Ike is losing I could see Soren jumping in and helping him out.
Now I want him even more dammit xD

But yeah like I said I would love all of it to happen but I am gonna be patient and see if Sakurai might do something that crazy.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

I was looking at the Wikia page for Soren earlier and there's a video at the top of the page.

The guy pronounces Ike like "Ee-kay", I'm being serious.

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Soren

Reminds me of the Spanish Smash announcer, and this (the wiki video was deleted): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EntVgGveUU

 

[Delta64]

A few problems I have with Soren (this does not mean he cannot happen, I just find this highly unlikely)

1. Soren would be the third echo fighter in the Fire Emblem franchise and would bring the total amount of FE characters to 8. To put that into perspective, The Legend of Zelda (one of Nintendo's biggest franchises) has only 6 characters.

2. Soren has never used a sword. Sure Sakurai could give him a sword but, I find unlikely that they would give a character a primary weapon that is pulled entirely out of nowhere. It would be like giving Captain Falcon a blaster as his primary weapon instead of the punches and kicks he actually uses. Giving a character a unique moveset that does not have really any direct connection to their game is one thing, giving them a weapon that contradicts their game is another.

3. Is there really a high demand for Soren? I remember the backlash for Chrom not being playable, but I have not heard nearly as many people talking about Soren. Sakurai even pointed out that Chrom was "highly requested". Does Soren really have that much of a following, because I have not seen it.

Again Soren can happen and I am sorry to detract a character. But because of these reasons I find it unlikely that Sakurai would add more than one Fire Emblem character in game with few newcomer slots.

 

[JaidynReiman]

If we get Soren that leak is real for sure, no one was crazy enough to predict Soren

Pretty much. But it doesn't mean the so-called "second half" is real, we can only use it to gauge the first half, and the only notable thing there is Isaac.

Regardless, I highly doubt Soren is actually happening.

A few problems I have with Soren (this does not mean he cannot happen, I just find this highly unlikely)

1. Soren would be the third echo fighter in the Fire Emblem franchise and would bring the total amount of FE characters to 8. To put that into perspective, The Legend of Zelda (one of Nintendo's biggest franchises) has only 6 characters.

2. Soren has never used a sword. Sure Sakurai could give him a sword but, I find unlikely that they would give a character a primary weapon that is pulled entirely out of nowhere. It would be like giving Captain Falcon a blaster as his primary weapon instead of the punches and kicks he actually uses. Giving a character a unique moveset that does not have really any direct connection to their game is one thing, giving them a weapon that contradicts their game is another.

3. Is there really a high demand for Soren? I remember the backlash for Chrom not being playable, but I have not heard nearly as many people talking about Soren. Sakurai even pointed out that Chrom was "highly requested". Does Soren really have that much of a following, because I have not seen it.

Again Soren can happen and I am sorry to detract a character. But because of these reasons I find it unlikely that Sakurai would add more than one Fire Emblem character in game with few newcomer slots.

They could replace the sword with a staff or dagger. For the latter, it would mean any Levin Sword based attacks are a lot shorter range than Robin, of course.


I do agree, though, I just can't see Soren happening.

 

[FlintIke]

A few problems I have with Soren (this does not mean he cannot happen, I just find this highly unlikely)

1. Soren would be the third echo fighter in the Fire Emblem franchise and would bring the total amount of FE characters to 8. To put that into perspective, The Legend of Zelda (one of Nintendo's biggest franchises) has only 6 characters.

2. Soren has never used a sword. Sure Sakurai could give him a sword but, I find unlikely that they would give a character a primary weapon that is pulled entirely out of nowhere. It would be like giving Captain Falcon a blaster as his primary weapon instead of the punches and kicks he actually uses. Giving a character a unique moveset that does not have really any direct connection to their game is one thing, giving them a weapon that contradicts their game is another.

3. Is there really a high demand for Soren? I remember the backlash for Chrom not being playable, but I have not heard nearly as many people talking about Soren. Sakurai even pointed out that Chrom was "highly requested". Does Soren really have that much of a following, because I have not seen it.

Again Soren can happen and I am sorry to detract a character. But because of these reasons I find it unlikely that Sakurai would add more than one Fire Emblem character in game with few newcomer slots.

Yeah the 3 Echo thingy is the part that kinda bothers me too :/ Since FE has actually more to offer than that.
As for the other points:

2. Yeah I actually talked with a friend of mine about that too. He made a suggestion that Soren could use his dagger (he can use those in PoR) with some kind of wind effect to extend the hitbox to match the one of the Levin Sword or something in that direction. So I can see him work somehow.

3. As far as I know if you don't split the votes to PoR and RD, Soren was actually in the Top 20 of the most popular characters in "Choose Your Legends" in Fire Emblem Heroes (for the male part). And Soren is the second most important mage in the Tellius Saga (with the 1st being Micaiah and maybe Pelleas as 3rd). He also fulfills the role of the tactician like Robin does for Chrom. So just like Chrom has Lucina and Robin at his side, Ike has Soren and Titania from his games. So I guess he wouldn't be too far-fetched imo.

But yeah I still get the point you are trying to make.

 

[Delta64]

Pretty much. But it doesn't mean the so-called "second half" is real, we can only use it to gauge the first half, and the only notable thing there is Isaac.

Regardless, I highly doubt Soren is actually happening.




They could replace the sword with a staff or dagger. For the latter, it would mean any Levin Sword based attacks are a lot shorter range than Robin, of course.


I do agree, though, I just can't see Soren happening.

Giving a character a different type of weapon than the person they are echoing? I find that highly unlikely. Sure we may not know all of the characteristics that can set echos apart. However, based on what we have seen so far all echoes use the same form of weaponry.
use a power suit/arm cannon, use a whip, and use a sword.

 

[SonicLink125]

Pretty much. But it doesn't mean the so-called "second half" is real, we can only use it to gauge the first half, and the only notable thing there is Isaac.

Regardless, I highly doubt Soren is actually happening.




They could replace the sword with a staff or dagger. For the latter, it would mean any Levin Sword based attacks are a lot shorter range than Robin, of course.


I do agree, though, I just can't see Soren happening.

Actually, replacing the sword with a staff or dagger is not out of the possibilities. Chrom has proven that Echos do not have to mimic every single move. Soren could act very similar to Robin but with a staff/dagger of sorts. But who am I to say such things? I'm excited (and nervous) to see what we'll get soon.

 

[Undella2]

For Fire Emblem characters, we have-
-5 pure sword wielders
-1 mage (who uses a sword)
-1 manakete (who uses a sword)

Now I'm not saying that any of these characters need to be cut, and some of them could use different weaponry then what they currently use to be made more unique, but we sure could use a dagger-based character. Or an archer. Or a spear-user. Or a...

 

[SmashBro99]

For Fire Emblem characters, we have-
-5 pure sword wielders
-1 mage (who uses a sword)
-1 manakete (who uses a sword)

Now I'm not saying that any of these characters need to be cut, and some of them could use different weaponry then what they currently use to be made more unique, but we sure could use a dagger-based character. Or an archer. Or a spear-user. Or a...

Nah, the japanese only like the cute sword boys.

 

[Delta64]

While I may not be a Fire Emblem fan, it shocks me that the series has gotten so much attention when it comes to playable characters. After Smash 4 (and DLC) I was hoping there would be no new Fire Emblem characters for this game. Even so I was not opposed to them adding a new Fire Emblem stage as well as a couple of assist trophies and items. I am not saying that I hated the idea of FE getting more content, I just wanted them to take a break with the playable characters (FE went from 2 to 6 in one game, while other franchises like Zelda, Metroid, Golden Sun, and more got nothing in Smash 4!).
Edited: to fix some wording.

 

[Metocles]

While I may not be a Fire Emblem fan, it shocks me that the series has gotten so much attention when it comes to playable characters. After Smash 4 (and DLC) I was hoping there would be no new Fire Emblem characters for this game. Even so I was not opposed to them adding a new Fire Emblem stage as well as a couple of assist trophies and items. I am not saying that I hated the idea of FE getting more content, I just wanted them to take a break with the playable characters (FE went from 2 to 6 in one game, while other franchises like Zelda, Metroid, Golden Sun, and more got nothing in Smash 4!).

Yeah, to say nothing of having at least 1 Golden Sun character in the face of that as well. Which is why a few of us are disgruntled at least a little bit that he's not in at this point.

 

[KMDP]

Haha yes, this pretty much. Its not even their support of Steve that annoys me, its shuting everyone down who would rather want someone else as being a salty fanboy like you said. Usually with complete strawmen too

I'm pretty sure I managed to shut down someone earlier today (yesterday for Americans) who said "I think Steve has way more moveset potential than Banjo" simply by asking if they had actually ever played a Banjo-Kazooie game.

It beggars belief that anyone could think that Minecraft Steve has more moveset potential (way more, even) than one of the quintessential Mascot Platformers of the late 90s.
---
EDIT

That doesn't even make sense since Vergeben actively tried to find out if King K. Rool was in the game but he couldn't get confirmation.

He most certainly isn't a prophet, even if he does have legitimate contacts in the industry.

It's called "Cognitive Dissonance" and "Confirmation Bias".

Vergeben is always right, those times he hasn't been right don't count.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I was looking at the Wikia page for Soren earlier and there's a video at the top of the page.

The guy pronounces Ike like "Ee-kay", I'm being serious.

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Soren

*Watches the video*

This guy must of never heard of such a common name before.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

I was looking at the Wikia page for Soren earlier and there's a video at the top of the page.

The guy pronounces Ike like "Ee-kay", I'm being serious.

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Soren

well i mean, it's how you pronounce Ike in spanish XD

 

[Q-Long]

Yeah there is no high demand for Soren at all. Black Knight is a more popular Tellius character

I'm pretty sure I managed to shut down someone earlier today (yesterday for Americans) who said "I think Steve has way more moveset potential than Banjo" simply by asking if they had actually ever played a Banjo-Kazooie game.

It beggars belief that anyone could think that Minecraft Steve has more moveset potential (way more, even) than one of the quintessential Mascot Platformers of the late 90s.
---
EDIT

It's called "Cognitive Dissonance" and "Confirmation Bias".

Vergeben is always right, those times he hasn't been right don't count.

Its not even that they want to believe the leak is right, its like they developed this contrarian love for Steve out of spite of people who would rather see other characters

 

[Mehdow]

well i mean, it's how you pronounce Ike in spanish XD

I would love if they add a way to change the announcer language.... I hate the voice in Spanish (that DeDeDe and lucario....)