Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[~ Valkyrie ~]

As for my poll, these are the results atm

EBA/Ouendan being so low hurts so bad.

Nevertheless - since Mother-series is done with officially, that'd put GS as 2nd most wanted. Neat.

 

[Luigifan18]

EBA/Ouendan being so low hurts so bad.

Nevertheless - since Mother-series is done with officially, that'd put GS as 2nd most wanted. Neat.

Same here. I would love to see EBA/Ouendan return.

 

[Metocles]

Something that is actually interesting and gets lost in that Ken image if it does end up becoming a true thing is that Vergeben is not the only one, nor the first person to put Ken in his leaking.

It's been buried quite a bit, but the very first Neogaf leak, the one with Soren, also had Ken in it, as well as King K. Rool. People have written off Soren mostly for obvious reasons, but he got Ken in something that came out long before Vergeben was putting his stuff out. The other character besides Soren that hasn't been confirmed yet in that leak? Isaac.

Just something to keep in the back of your mind if you start seeing a Soren picture around somewhere. That would be amazing.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

Something that is actually interesting and gets lost in that Ken image if it does end up becoming a true thing is that Vergeben is not the only one, nor the first person to put Ken in his leaking.

It's been buried quite a bit, but the very first Neogaf leak, the one with Soren, also had Ken in it, as well as King K. Rool. People have written off Soren mostly for obvious reasons, but he got Ken in something that came out long before Vergeben was putting his stuff out. The other character besides Soren that hasn't been confirmed yet in that leak? Isaac.

Just something to keep in the back of your mind if you start seeing a Soren picture around somewhere. That would be amazing.

That Neogaf leak said Isabelle was an echo, which makes its credibility shaky.

 

[pholtos]

That Neogaf leak said Isabelle was an echo, which makes its credibility shaky.

I give most a pass on this one, if you only saw part of what isabelle did, and the fact that it's a second animal crossing character, you'd probably assume they'd be an echo, yes? Maybe.

Edit: Though I still find leakers to be a thorn in the side of speculation.

 

[Metocles]

That Neogaf leak said Isabelle was an echo, which makes its credibility shaky.

Not the original Neogaf leak. The update to the original was the one that added Isabelle in and nobody was even sure anymore if it was actually the same WhisslBlank at all anymore.

As a reminder to the original, they said Simon Belmont, King K. Rool, Isaac and then for echoes Chrom (based on Roy), Soren (based on Robin) and Ken (based on Ryu with flame effects). Like I also said before, getting Simon without Richter is still suspicious as hell to me, effectively blowing up every leak out there, but we'll see. It is called speculation after all.

Also remember that Vergeben said that one of his sources thought that Isabelle was an echo. No clue how many sources he has or how many said that she's not or just didn't say at all. This goes back into my previous posting saying that all of these Vergeben sources feel really weak to actually be called 'sources'.

 

[FlintIke]

That's my exact problem with the whole leak thingy. Everyone discredits the neogaf leak for saying that Isabelle is an Echo Fighter, but if I remember correctly one of Vergebens sources mistook her for an Echo too. Which means that their sources must have seen something or heard something that make her appear like an Echo.
Not that I want to defend the neogaf one but unless something completely out of order appears it's still kinda legit to me.
Also note that the leaker said Ken was in before Vergeben did, and if the SE character is Terra then it kinda confirms that Vergeben as well as the neogaf guy both have some intel.

But I will wait and see if the leak will die in the next direct. Still kinda believing for Isaac's and Felix's sake xD.

Also I totally love Soren. He is my favorite character alongside Ike and Zihark from the Tellius Games <3

EDIT: Also if I rly see a picture leak of Soren I will totally lose my mind both for him and Isaac+Felix!

 

[Arcadenblog]

It's incredible how this has become the biggest character thread right now. Really shows how the demand for Isaac is there. I wonder if he'll become the next K. Rool/Ridley if he doesn't get in.

 

[Confirmation]

So I'm curious about something.

Steve's first appearance for Nintendo hardware was mid-december of 2015. If you count discs, summer 2016

Wouldn't the roster have been finalized before then? Nintendo doesn't seem to like third-parties that haven't had an appearance on their console. Unless his addition was significantly pre-planned a la Greninja or other third parties, he probably wouldn't have been added.

 

[Rethuic]

That's my exact problem with the whole leak thingy. Everyone discredits the neogaf leak for saying that Isabelle is an Echo Fighter, but if I remember correctly one of Vergebens sources mistook her for an Echo too. Which means that their sources must have seen something or heard something that make her appear like an Echo.
Not that I want to defend the neogaf one but unless something completely out of order appears it's still kinda legit to me.
Also note that the leaker said Ken was in before Vergeben did, and if the SE character is Terra then it kinda confirms that Vergeben as well as the neogaf guy both have some intel.

But I will wait and see if the leak will die in the next direct. Still kinda believing for Isaac's and Felix's sake xD.

Also I totally love Soren. He is my favorite character alongside Ike and Zihark from the Tellius Games <3

EDIT: Also if I rly see a picture leak of Soren I will totally lose my mind both for him and Isaac+Felix!

The Neogaf leak did get a boat load of stuff right and I'm not surprised that they thought Isabelle was an Echo. One thing to point out is that unlike Vergeben, this guy remains anonymous. The Neogaf leaker has also said stuff that opposes Vergeben, especially with the "no pokemon fighter" thing. In a way, Neogaf leaker has gotten more stuff right than Verge with King K and Chrom.

 

[ZelDan]

Part of me almost wants to see Soren happen just because at that point we could basically just know Isaac is in the game thanks to that leak.

Soren still seems like a very odd choice though.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I was reading this about Stealth talking about Vergeben and I thought part of it was interesting: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77025556

I don't think it was Stealth who said this but it's still interesting to think about:

Stealth was the original Belmont leaker. Apparently these insiders have similar, widely shared sources, but Vergeben is the only one of many willing to "spoil" the surprise for the public. These insiders probably only know about "obvious" characters who'd leave a big business footprint, like E3 announcements, characters coinciding with new game reveals, and 3rd party content. Strict 1st party secrets like K. Rool would be beyond them.

Isaac probably wouldn't have a "big business footprint" if he was playable, so it's possible we've got that going for us if nothing else. It's probably unreasonable to think we'll get a new Golden Sun announced along with his reveal as a playable character. (not that it can't be in development but if it is it probably isn't coming out until next year or 2020)

It does line up with Vergeben also not knowing anything about Chrom or Dark Samus.

Who knows but it may be another kernel of hope.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

I was reading this about Stealth talking about Vergeben and I thought part of it was interesting: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77025556

I don't think it was Stealth who said this but it's still interesting to think about:



Isaac probably wouldn't have a "big business footprint" if he was playable, so it's possible we've got that going for us if nothing else. It's probably unreasonable to think we'll get a new Golden Sun announced along with his reveal as a playable character. (not that it can't be in development but if it is it probably isn't coming out until next year or 2020)

It does line up with Vergeben also not knowing anything about Chrom or Dark Samus.

Who knows but it may be another kernel of hope.

Stealth___ also said Inklings were 100% DLC for Sm4sh

But our chances are still alive, especially if that assessment is true, and they wouldn't really know the first party choices that well.

 

[Rethuic]

Ok, I don't know how to post pictures yet, but I found what seems like an updated Neogaf leak from August 9th.
"
Hello again everyone.
I wanted to share the missing information with you all that I got for the game's final characters.


2 out of the 7 newcomers are already confirmed and here are the final ones.

- K Rool (already confirmed)
- Simon Belmont (already confirmed)
- Isaac (is on his way)
- Monster Hunter (is still in development which is the reason why he wasn't confirmed today)
- Terra from the Final Fantasy Series
- Another Bandai Namco character
- Prince Sable from "For the Frog the Bell Tolls"

Coming to the Echo Fighter there are people who didn't understand the system behind my information. The 2 "X" that were left were indeed Dark Samus und Richter. It was the amount of characters I got information on for the time being. And I didn't include characters like Inkling,Ridley and Daisy since they were already officially confirmed at that point. Since people doubted it I only wanted to share information again when some of the characters I called were finally confirmed.
There will be no more "X" this time since I wanted to make sure that everyone is named.

With that said there will indeed be more Echo Fighters than I anticipated before.

- Chrom based on Roy (already confirmed)
- Soren based on Robin (still on his way)
- Dark Samus based on Samus (already confirmed)
- Richter based on Simon (already confirmed)
- Ken based on Ryu (still on his way)
- Shadow the Hedgehog based on Sonic (still on his way)
- Felix based on Isaac(will be revealed together with Isaac like Simon was with Richter)
- Isabelle based on Villager (still on her way)
- Galacta Knight based on Meta Knight (still on his way)

As for the Bandai Namco character, it's the only one left I don't know about. I will update it if I get my hands on that information.
That's it for the main roster. I don't know if there are any plans for DLC but since Super Smash Bros for the Wii U had DLC you can most likely expect it here as well.

This post will be deleted soon as well. And again, take it or leave it. "

 

[Rethuic]

So what do you think of the updated Neogaf?

 

[ZelDan]

Galacta Knight is already an alt skin for Meta Knight, so yeah I'm not buying it (Soren already put that leak on thin ice)

 

[pholtos]

If that's the remaining characters, I'd be content with it, although I'd feel bad for the Skull Kid and Geno fans, among others.
(Honestly that looks like a really good set of additions)

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Ok, I don't know how to post pictures yet, but I found what seems like an updated Neogaf leak from August 9th.
"
Hello again everyone.
I wanted to share the missing information with you all that I got for the game's final characters.


2 out of the 7 newcomers are already confirmed and here are the final ones.

- K Rool (already confirmed)
- Simon Belmont (already confirmed)
- Isaac (is on his way)
- Monster Hunter (is still in development which is the reason why he wasn't confirmed today)
- Terra from the Final Fantasy Series
- Another Bandai Namco character
- Prince Sable from "For the Frog the Bell Tolls"

Coming to the Echo Fighter there are people who didn't understand the system behind my information. The 2 "X" that were left were indeed Dark Samus und Richter. It was the amount of characters I got information on for the time being. And I didn't include characters like Inkling,Ridley and Daisy since they were already officially confirmed at that point. Since people doubted it I only wanted to share information again when some of the characters I called were finally confirmed.
There will be no more "X" this time since I wanted to make sure that everyone is named.

With that said there will indeed be more Echo Fighters than I anticipated before.

- Chrom based on Roy (already confirmed)
- Soren based on Robin (still on his way)
- Dark Samus based on Samus (already confirmed)
- Richter based on Simon (already confirmed)
- Ken based on Ryu (still on his way)
- Shadow the Hedgehog based on Sonic (still on his way)
- Felix based on Isaac(will be revealed together with Isaac like Simon was with Richter)
- Isabelle based on Villager (still on her way)
- Galacta Knight based on Meta Knight (still on his way)

As for the Bandai Namco character, it's the only one left I don't know about. I will update it if I get my hands on that information.
That's it for the main roster. I don't know if there are any plans for DLC but since Super Smash Bros for the Wii U had DLC you can most likely expect it here as well.

This post will be deleted soon as well. And again, take it or leave it. "

The second Gaf leak is also anonymous so it's still possible it could be another user adding to the original info. Galacta Knight and Monster Hunter really ruin it for me since GK is already represented with an alt and I don't really think a Monster Hunter character would get in after Rathalos was revealed

 

[TempestSurge]

Another thing about Neogaf it was also one of the early ones to list Isaac as playable, when Isaac was still seen as this niche character from a dead series that no one cared to place on their top smash ultimate newcomers list.

Though the part regarding Terra, this might make them a bit more unlikely.

Sakurai: "But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are."

Though if we think of Gematsu, it was right up until a point, Chrom and Chorus Kids didn't happen. And there's always the Sakurai factor where he says a character can't happen one game but make them work the next. But I feel like Geno is more likely to be the possible Square rep with this game focusing on fanservice/the ballot.

 

[Rethuic]

The second Gaf leak is also anonymous so it's still possible it could be another user adding to the original info. Galacta Knight and Monster Hunter really ruin it for me since GK is already represented with an alt and I don't really think a Monster Hunter character would get in after Rathalos was revealed

Yeah, that's my problem. Due to this guy being anonymous, we don't know if it's the same. It could be someone taking it and running.

 

[Delta64]

Another problem with the Neogaf leak is that it says Isabelle will be an echo, which we know is not the case.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Another thing about Neogaf it was also one of the early ones to list Isaac as playable, when Isaac was still seen as this niche character from a dead series that no one cared to place on their top smash ultimate newcomers list.

Though the part regarding Terra, this might make them a bit more unlikely.

Sakurai: "But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are."

Though if we think of Gematsu, it was right up until a point, Chrom and Chorus Kids didn't happen. And there's always the Sakurai factor where he says a character can't happen one game but make them work the next. But I feel like Geno is more likely to be the possible Square rep with this game focusing on fanservice/the ballot.

I mean I would argue that could make it more likely, since we have proof that Sakurai actually considered Terra at some point. (and if he considered her once he could consider her again)

There are really more questionable characters on that list than Terra, like Soren and Isabelle as an echo.

 

[jweb23]

The issue with the “updated” Neogaf leak is that there was no way of knowing if it was the same person who gave the original leak.

For those curious, this is the original Neogaf leak info:

“No new Zelda character
No new Pokémon character
No new Fire Emblem character except for two based on other fighters

12 more newcomers, 5 of which are based off other fighters (only has info on a few)

Simon
King K Rool
Isaac
X
X
X
X

5 based on other fighters
Chrom (based on Roy)
Soren (based on Robin)
Ken (based on Ryu)
X
X”

This was all from the original post and hasn’t been disproved yet. As stated above, no one knows if the updated versions were from the same person.

 

[ZelDan]

I mean I would argue that could make it more likely, since we have proof that Sakurai actually considered Terra at some point. (and if he considered her once he could consider her again)

There are really more questionable characters on that list than Terra, like Soren and Isabelle as an echo.

I don't think Sakurai is against Terra, he just wanted Cloud more. Now that Cloud was included since Smash 4, maybe Terra would be on the radar for him?

That said I still think Geno is the most likely SE rep and consider him the closest character we have for a lock.

 

[Rethuic]

The issue with the “updated” Neogaf leak is that there was no way of knowing if it was the same person who gave the original leak.

For those curious, this is the original Neogaf leak info:

“No new Zelda character
No new Pokémon character
No new Fire Emblem character except for two based on other fighters

12 more newcomers, 5 of which are based off other fighters (only has info on a few)

Simon
King K Rool
Isaac
X
X
X
X

5 based on other fighters
Chrom (based on Roy)
Soren (based on Robin)
Ken (based on Ryu)
X
X”

This was all from the original post and hasn’t been disproved yet. As stated above, no one knows if the updated versions were from the same person.

Thanks for posting the original. Like you said, there is no way to prove or disprove that it's the same person. So far, none of this has been wrong, so there's that. You can sorta fill in some of the Xs with some of the new info, such as Isabelle as a unique and Dark Samus as an Echo.

 

[Q-Long]

I like you guys more than the Ultimate thread.

Same here. I would love to see EBA/Ouendan return.

Yes! Its weird cause Osu is immortal , Nintendo can really capitalize that

 

[Sabrewulf238]

The issue with the “updated” Neogaf leak is that there was no way of knowing if it was the same person who gave the original leak.

For those curious, this is the original Neogaf leak info:

“No new Zelda character
No new Pokémon character
No new Fire Emblem character except for two based on other fighters

12 more newcomers, 5 of which are based off other fighters (only has info on a few)

Simon
King K Rool
Isaac
X [Isabelle?]
X
X
X

5 based on other fighters
Chrom (based on Roy)
Soren (based on Robin)
Ken (based on Ryu)
X [Richter?]
X” [Dark Samus?]

This was all from the original post and hasn’t been disproved yet. As stated above, no one knows if the updated versions were from the same person.

It's kind of interesting that this would mean we're not getting Shadow as an echo. (at least not in the base game)

It would also mean we've only got two more echo fighters to be revealed, Ken and Soren. (since the remaining X are presumably Richter and Dark Samus)

It is interesting that they got Chrom based on Roy right but I don't think it's enough to be convincing.

 

[Confirmation]

The issue with the “updated” Neogaf leak is that there was no way of knowing if it was the same person who gave the original leak.

For those curious, this is the original Neogaf leak info:

“No new Zelda character
No new Pokémon character
No new Fire Emblem character except for two based on other fighters

12 more newcomers, 5 of which are based off other fighters (only has info on a few)

Simon
King K Rool
Isaac
X
X
X
X

5 based on other fighters
Chrom (based on Roy)
Soren (based on Robin)
Ken (based on Ryu)
X
X”

This was all from the original post and hasn’t been disproved yet. As stated above, no one knows if the updated versions were from the same person.

This is actually pretty interesting, if this was indeed pre-August 8. All information over time has pushed our expectations down to like 3-4 uniques and a random number of echoes, and it has several characters nobody would see coming and thus would confirm it (ie Soren).

We have no indication on whether different teams work on regular Directs vs Smash Directs, but it would be an explanation on why they wouldn't have Isabelle

 

[Q-Long]

If we get Soren I get to do Ike x Soren in Smash!

He is probably the most left field character though. Fire Emblem newcomers are nothing but new characters sadly

 

[Sabrewulf238]

If we get Soren I get to do Ike x Soren in Smash!

He is probably the most left field character though. Fire Emblem newcomers are nothing but new characters sadly

A part of me is kinda hesitant to predict anything in regards to Fire Emblem. Whenever I think it can't possibly get another character it does so who's to say it can't get another random character as an echo?

Maybe Soren is Sakurai's favourite Fire Emblem character of all time. Maybe Soren is what will make the game "Ultimate" for Sakurai?

 

[Confirmation]

If we get Soren I get to do Ike x Soren in Smash!

He is probably the most left field character though. Fire Emblem newcomers are nothing but new characters sadly

I dunno; common talk is that we have another FE echo in Black Knight. While Soren is more WTF, I could see it.

Sakurai could've gotten annoyed at how fans reacted negatively to all the FE in Smash and was like "fine, we'll compromise. I'll still add a couple Fire Emblem characters but they're echoes so you can't complain"

 

[Rethuic]

The thing about the original Neogaf leak is that it has two major things that would nuke it. A new pokemon rep (Incineroar is most likely) and a new Zelda rep (Skull kid or maybe Impa). Other than that, this thing has held with a correct guess of King K and Chrom. I don't think any leaker at the time was saying them. Ken means nothing for this leak because Vergeben.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I like you guys more than the Ultimate thread.


Yes! Its weird cause Osu is immortal , Nintendo can really capitalize that

The Ultimate thread is....so toxic.

 

[tveye]

I find it really odd that a new Pokemon character hasn't been shown yet. It kind of makes me doubt if we're even getting one. But I'm probably just being biased since there's already so many Pokemon as it is.

 

[Shin F.]

The thing about the original Neogaf leak is that it has two major things that would nuke it. A new pokemon rep (Incineroar is most likely) and a new Zelda rep (Skull kid or maybe Impa). Other than that, this thing has held with a correct guess of King K and Chrom. I don't think any leaker at the time was saying them. Ken means nothing for this leak because Vergeben.

This leak had Ken before Vergeben did, so it counts.

 

[Confirmation]

The thing about the original Neogaf leak is that it has two major things that would nuke it. A new pokemon rep (Incineroar is most likely) and a new Zelda rep (Skull kid or maybe Impa). Other than that, this thing has held with a correct guess of King K and Chrom. I don't think any leaker at the time was saying them. Ken means nothing for this leak because Vergeben.

No Zelda rep is a fair guess because the series has typically stuck to Zelda / Links / Ganondorf.
No Pokemon rep though? That's bold, bold, bold.

Either it's fake and the leaker decided to seriously ham it up or who knows.

 

[TempestSurge]

I mean I would argue that could make it more likely, since we have proof that Sakurai actually considered Terra at some point. (and if he considered her once he could consider her again)

There are really more questionable characters on that list than Terra, like Soren and Isabelle as an echo.

Isabelle as an echo really isn't that much of a red flag cause she could have started as an echo and then got unique traits added to her to give her semi clone status. She isn't a completely unique newcomer. It's kind of like Dark Pit going from an alt to getting his own characteristics Sakurai says that even Lucina was lucky to join the fray.

 

[tveye]

The Ultimate thread is....so toxic.

I don't know what the deal is with the atmosphere of that thread. A lot of them seem to place themselves on the moral highground for thinking that Steve would be a great fit for Smash and anyone who disagrees is just a salty, deluded fanboy.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I find it really odd that a new Pokemon character hasn't been shown yet. It kind of makes me doubt if we're even getting one. But I'm probably just being biased since there's already so many Pokemon as it is.

I'm hesitant to make any rash judgements but I might begin to question us getting a new Pokemon newcomer if it isn't revealed to us before November.

Incineroar doesn't really feel like a "final direct" kind of newcomer. (of course I'm only basing this off my own intuition....)

 

[Rethuic]

I don't know what the deal is with the atmosphere of that thread. A lot of them seem to place themselves on the moral highground for thinking that Steve would be a great fit for Smash and anyone who disagrees is just a salty, deluded fanboy.

Speaking of that Steve thing, there was a 4Chan post that also said that they'd have video evidence of him today. There has been some rick-rolling so far.
(EDIT) By the way, if somebody checks and does find a "legitimate" video, by all means tell me and I will look at it. Please don't send me Rick-rolls.