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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

Xithyl_kykorl

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2018
Messages
67
We only need a few more posts to break 19k posts. Holy crap. This is just surreal. I hope somebody from Nintendo is seeing this. We've accomplished in 6 months what took us 3 years last go around.
We certainly have come rather far, friends. I feel Golden Sun might be more popular now than when Dark Dawn was released, yet, that's simply from my perspective. It's been nice actually engaging with the community this time around. Glad to be here with you all.
 

Q-Long

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
1,062
Location
Western Massachusetts
When I was a kid, my cousins had the game on their SNES. I revisited it via emulators while in my high school and early college years, though these days I don't really dabble in emulation unless there's no way for me to buy it on modern systems. If only that game and the Golden Sun series gets released on the 3DS VC...
I would emulate them , but I usually just say that so people get to experience em.

Like, its the only way to enjoy Mother 3 for example. I don't blame you for not morally wanting to or whatever though
 

ZelDan

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
3,303
Location
New Hampshire
I would emulate them , but I usually just say that so people get to experience em.

Like, its the only way to enjoy Mother 3 for example. I don't blame you for not morally wanting to or whatever though
Super Mario RPG is on the SNES Classic, which is how I did my latest playthrough of it months ago.
 

Thirdkoopa

Administrator
Administrator
Writing Team
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
7,162
Location
Somewhere on Discord while working on something
Would y'all agree that the Brawl Quartet in order from most to least requested was: Ridley, K Rool, Geno, Isaac?
you're close.

K. Rool was definitely at the bottom of that. People were focused on getting Diddy Kong in the game first and he was one of the shoo-ins for Brawl.

So, it'd be Ridley, Geno, gap, Isaac, big gap, K. Rool
 

Confirmation

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
648
I always thought it was Geno=Isaac personally; Geno was bigger in smash specifically but Isaac had a lot of casuals at the time.
 

pholtos

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 15, 2018
Messages
404
10th actually. You forgot Mewtwo.
Whaaaaaaaat is with me and always missing a pokemon. Oy.

That's not actually a good reason.

No matter what, Charzard Squitle and Ivysaur are counted as seperate characters. No matter what, they count. No matter how their fatal flaws make them dependable on each other.

And yes. 1 per entry is too much to ask. We've already got 9 Pokémon reps. And even then, it has about as much as Fire Emblem or Mario. At that's point, I'd say to calm the **** down.

And no. If FE **needs** the characters to better represent their franchise, then they shouldn't have spent so many spots dedicated to Awakenibg.

(The same goes for Gen 1 for Pokémon.)

You know what series DO desperately need the representation? F-Zero. Mother. Xenoblade. Star Fox. Kirby ( since it has a huge cast like FE and Pokémon), Metroid, and even some of the unrepresented franchises.

At this point, until those franchises get some attention, I will never NOT be salty over the inclusion of a 10TH Pokemon character.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head there. Some series really deserve another rep, and as for pokemon, the ONLY reason I could see them adding another mon is focusing on a type that doesn't already exist in the game. We already have a Fire/Flying, Water, Water/Dark, Grass/Poison, Psychic, Electric, Electric, Fairy/Normal, Fighting/Steel.
 

VexTheHex

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Messages
567
Whaaaaaaaat is with me and always missing a pokemon. Oy.


You pretty much hit the nail on the head there. Some series really deserve another rep, and as for pokemon, the ONLY reason I could see them adding another mon is focusing on a type that doesn't already exist in the game. We already have a Fire/Flying, Water, Water/Dark, Grass/Poison, Psychic, Electric, Electric, Fairy/Normal, Fighting/Steel.
Typing is mostly just a superficial particle effect in Smash though. I don't see Jigglypuff rocking that Fairy type very well or Ivysaur relying on poisoning his enemies.


That's not actually a good reason.

No matter what, Charzard Squitle and Ivysaur are counted as seperate characters. No matter what, they count. No matter how their fatal flaws make them dependable on each other.

And yes. 1 per entry is too much to ask. We've already got 9 Pokémon reps. And even then, it has about as much as Fire Emblem or Mario. At that's point, I'd say to calm the **** down.

And no. If FE **needs** the characters to better represent their franchise, then they shouldn't have spent so many spots dedicated to Awakenibg.

(The same goes for Gen 1 for Pokémon.)

You know what series DO desperately need the representation? F-Zero. Mother. Xenoblade. Star Fox. Kirby ( since it has a huge cast like FE and Pokémon), Metroid, and even some of the unrepresented franchises.

At this point, until those franchises get some attention, I will never NOT be salty over the inclusion of a 10TH Pokemon character.
F-Zero and Mother are dead series. Anything for F-Zero has to be made up from scratch as the characters do nothing except race, they're basically avatars for cars. If Sakurai couldn't get more creative with Starfox with more to work with, I highly doubt he can pull much out for F-Zero besides Captain Ganondorf turned Black Shadow. Mother has supplied us with two kids who look similar and attack similar. It has more potential than that, but I mostly see people rally for Ninten (so 3 kids looking the same and behaving the same overall) which isn't promising.

Not sure why you feel Starfox needs a 4th now, I'd like to see the series survive but it's teetering on failing/dying off and supplied us with 3 characters based on one kit. Krystal came into the series when it went down and Slippy is hated by most fans even though he is technically more deserving than blue fox girl that brought the drama stories along. Metroid just got 2 newcomers and it's cast is mostly one offs that play little roles and die off. Sylux could be potential, but that hasn't played out yet. Everyone else is basically dead and buried.

Xenoblade and Kirby could use another addition. I feel Sakurai's bias for his time ruling Kirby has put it in a odd spot since he may feel the trio in are all it needs and all he feels connected to. Xenoblade could use Elma or Rex. We'll see though.

Pokemon, Kirby, Mario, Fire Emblem and the like do deserve more characters cause they are actually successful and ongoing series with diverse casts. They are keeping Nintendo alive and what are what most people can recognize as Nintendo All Stars. Trying to tear them down does nothing to help dead series characters like Isaac/Saki or one offs like Geno/Skull Kid.

There's also part of me that is pondering if they are thinking of a reboot after this already. They may slaughter the cast after this and what's the point of adding small characters like retros or one offs when they'd be the first ones cut in the reboot? Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus may all be old news by the reboot and could easily be scrapped or put as very low priority. Meanwhile King K Rool, Ridley, and Isabelle could be argued as faces of their series that are still ongoing and alive. All three of them could survive a reboot. Simon/Richter... have the potential as well if 3rd parties stay or are heavily pushed going forward.
 

XenoWarriorX

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,278
Typing is mostly just a superficial particle effect in Smash though. I don't see Jigglypuff rocking that Fairy type very well or Ivysaur relying on poisoning his enemies.




F-Zero and Mother are dead series. Anything for F-Zero has to be made up from scratch as the characters do nothing except race, they're basically avatars for cars. If Sakurai couldn't get more creative with Starfox with more to work with, I highly doubt he can pull much out for F-Zero besides Captain Ganondorf turned Black Shadow. Mother has supplied us with two kids who look similar and attack similar. It has more potential than that, but I mostly see people rally for Ninten (so 3 kids looking the same and behaving the same overall) which isn't promising.

Not sure why you feel Starfox needs a 4th now, I'd like to see the series survive but it's teetering on failing/dying off and supplied us with 3 characters based on one kit. Krystal came into the series when it went down and Slippy is hated by most fans even though he is technically more deserving than blue fox girl that brought the drama stories along. Metroid just got 2 newcomers and it's cast is mostly one offs that play little roles and die off. Sylux could be potential, but that hasn't played out yet. Everyone else is basically dead and buried.

Xenoblade and Kirby could use another addition. I feel Sakurai's bias for his time ruling Kirby has put it in a odd spot since he may feel the trio in are all it needs and all he feels connected to. Xenoblade could use Elma or Rex. We'll see though.

Pokemon, Kirby, Mario, Fire Emblem and the like do deserve more characters cause they are actually successful and ongoing series with diverse casts. They are keeping Nintendo alive and what are what most people can recognize as Nintendo All Stars. Trying to tear them down does nothing to help dead series characters like Isaac/Saki or one offs like Geno/Skull Kid.

There's also part of me that is pondering if they are thinking of a reboot after this already. They may slaughter the cast after this and what's the point of adding small characters like retros or one offs when they'd be the first ones cut in the reboot? Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus may all be old news by the reboot and could easily be scrapped or put as very low priority. Meanwhile King K Rool, Ridley, and Isabelle could be argued as faces of their series that are still ongoing and alive. All three of them could survive a reboot. Simon/Richter... have the potential as well if 3rd parties stay or are heavily pushed going forward.
Once you said F-Zero was a dead series, I just tuned you out.

Sorry, I don't think I'll ever agree.
 

XenoWarriorX

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,278
F-Zero hasn't had a release since 2004 though
And Ice climbers hasn't had a release since the NES.

Seriously though. I'm loving that relevance somehow matters when I thought that relevance isn't a barrior anymore.
I think the nail in F-Zero's coffin was when MK8 stole their shtick.
Ugh. Don't even ****ing remind me of that.

**** Nintendo.
 
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Q-Long

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
1,062
Location
Western Massachusetts
Captain Falcon is probably one of the most iconic smash characters, despite alot of smash players not having played his game

honestly, if they dont do a racer, at least do a bounty hunter game for him. give him a good fighting system like platinum games have. the setting could be various f-zero cities, mute city, big blue, aeropolis, port town, etc. Yakuza games are a pretty good template for how they could make a lively and explorable city.

it would be an amazing way to get to know the racers on a more intimate level as well if they are featured as side character. it would sell well too, because casuals arent interested in the racing, they're interested in FALCOUN PAWNCH
 

XenoWarriorX

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,278
Captain Falcon is probably one of the most iconic smash characters, despite alot of smash players not having played his game

honestly, if they dont do a racer, at least do a bounty hunter game for him. give him a good fighting system like platinum games have. the setting could be various f-zero cities, mute city, big blue, aeropolis, port town, etc. Yakuza games are a pretty good template for how they could make a lively and explorable city.

it would be an amazing way to get to know the racers on a more intimate level as well if they are featured as side character. it would sell well too, because casuals arent interested in the racing, they're interested in FALCOUN PAWNCH
If they make a fighting game over the ACTUAL game that fans have been waiting for.

I'm boycotting it.
 

Delta64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 25, 2014
Messages
373
you have to survive federation force to get to prime 4 though
This^
As a Metroid fan I can say that I understand it when Nintendo ignores a franchise longer than they should. Sure F-ZERO has been a longer wait but, the fact that Nintendo at least acknowledges it's existence in other titles (Smash, Mario Kart) is better than how some series are treated (Like how Microsoft treats Banjo-Kazooie). Nintendo has an enormous amount of franchises to keep up with (as is recorded in Super Smash Bros.) so I am more likely to give them a pass when they leave a franchise behind for awhile.
 

Oracle_Summon

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
5,059
Typing is mostly just a superficial particle effect in Smash though. I don't see Jigglypuff rocking that Fairy type very well or Ivysaur relying on poisoning his enemies.




F-Zero and Mother are dead series. Anything for F-Zero has to be made up from scratch as the characters do nothing except race, they're basically avatars for cars. If Sakurai couldn't get more creative with Starfox with more to work with, I highly doubt he can pull much out for F-Zero besides Captain Ganondorf turned Black Shadow.
Which is what F-Zero fans are perfectly fine with when it comes to Black Shadow. They just want a 2nd character who would fit the heros vs villains archetype that Ultimate seems to be going for.

Mother has supplied us with two kids who look similar and attack similar. It has more potential than that, but I mostly see people rally for Ninten (so 3 kids looking the same and behaving the same overall) which isn't promising.
The reason Ninten is supported is because Echos are so easy to produce and would not cost much in labor costs and resources. It would easily fit the newcomers for the trilogy of the series. (You could also argue that Duster is supported for a new take on a moveset as well, but Ninten is more prominent since he would complete the protagonist representation of each game in the series)

Not sure why you feel Starfox needs a 4th now, I'd like to see the series survive but it's teetering on failing/dying off and supplied us with 3 characters based on one kit. Krystal came into the series when it went down and Slippy is hated by most fans even though he is technically more deserving than blue fox girl that brought the drama stories along. Metroid just got 2 newcomers and it's cast is mostly one offs that play little roles and die off. Sylux could be potential, but that hasn't played out yet. Everyone else is basically dead and buried.
The Metroid part is right, but many would love to have Krystal bring her own original moveset that no other Star Fox character has.

Pokemon, Kirby, Mario, Fire Emblem and the like do deserve more characters cause they are actually successful and ongoing series with diverse casts. They are keeping Nintendo alive and what are what most people can recognize as Nintendo All Stars.
The issue is that Smash Brothers has multiple franchises that spans the entirety of Nintendo's history. To have the roster mainly support Pokemon, Kirby, Mario and Fire Emblem characters is a disservice to the vast pool of franchises that exists in Nintendo's family and library.

Trying to tear them down does nothing to help dead series characters like Isaac/Saki or one offs like Geno/Skull Kid.
How do you think they are "getting torn down"? Do you believe the general Smash fan base wants the roster to mainly consist of Pokemon, Fire Emblem and Mario characters? Smash is a great way for Nintendo to introduce/reintroduce long forgotten franchises and breathe life back into old franchises.

You cannot tear down Pokemon, Kirby, Mario and Fire Emblem because not getting new characters would not effect their series at all; whereas, series like Golden Sun would benefit immensely from Smash recognition. Fire Emblem needed that boost to kick off in the States.

There's also part of me that is pondering if they are thinking of a reboot after this already. They may slaughter the cast after this and what's the point of adding small characters like retros or one offs when they'd be the first ones cut in the reboot? Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus may all be old news by the reboot and could easily be scrapped or put as very low priority. Meanwhile King K Rool, Ridley, and Isabelle could be argued as faces of their series that are still ongoing and alive. All three of them could survive a reboot. Simon/Richter... have the potential as well if 3rd parties stay or are heavily pushed going forward.
The Reboot Cast depends on what the goal of the Reboot itself is. Is it about Nintendo's history and the franchises it picked up over the years? Well there goes the majority of the Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Kirby and Mario casts; especially, if the roster space is extremely limited. If you need one character to represent each franchise that Nintendo owns then you can bet that big Nintendo series like Mario would be severely neutered in size.
 

ZelDan

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
3,303
Location
New Hampshire
TBH, I never really believed in the idea of a series "dying," they just get shelved for whatever reasons. Look at what happened with DOOM, we finally got an official 2D Metroid after god knows how long, We have Megaman 11 coming out soon. Shenmue III was announced during Sony's 2015 E3 (I haven't realkly followed it, but I'm guessing it's going okay so far?), etc. Hell, Bubsy came back from the dead and nobody even wanted him back.

Who knows what will happen in the future or what kind of people will join/leave these gaming companies as time marches on. Depending on the answer to this maybe there will be more support for a new F-Zero within Nintendo, or some other old, sleeping Nintendo IP.
 
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Confirmation

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
648
Tbh I think the biggest issue with F-Zero is bad internet. You needed some pretty good reflexes in the original, and any network lag would make it way less fun; MK8 is mostly slower and less punishing for slight lag.
 

Jupiter Ivan

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
527
You speak the truth, but it’s all semantics. A franchise is never truly dead. There’s always a chance for revival. That being said it’s all just phrasing. Golden Sun is a dead franchise, but that doesn’t mean it can’t come back.

Like I always say, a franchise is never truly dead as long as there are still fans of it. Golden Sun may be dormant, but we’re keeping it alive. Now more than ever.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Once you said F-Zero was a dead series, I just tuned you out.

Sorry, I don't think I'll ever agree.
I wish I could look at myself in the mirror and say to myself ‘F-Zero is not dead’ and believe it. Would probably make my life better if I could.

Captain Falcon is probably one of the most iconic smash characters, despite alot of smash players not having played his game

honestly, if they dont do a racer, at least do a bounty hunter game for him. give him a good fighting system like platinum games have. the setting could be various f-zero cities, mute city, big blue, aeropolis, port town, etc. Yakuza games are a pretty good template for how they could make a lively and explorable city.

it would be an amazing way to get to know the racers on a more intimate level as well if they are featured as side character. it would sell well too, because casuals arent interested in the racing, they're interested in FALCOUN PAWNCH
I didn’t know how much I wanted this until now. **** Judge Eyes, just give us Falcon Yakuza. Sega used to make F-Zero so it just works.

If they make a fighting game over the ACTUAL game that fans have been waiting for.

I'm boycotting it.
Nintendo could probably make me buy a port of FIFA if they called it F-Zero.

Guess the old adage about there being two kinds of people in the world rings true.

you have to survive federation force to get to prime 4 though
Also this. Would also have accepted ‘you have to survive Other M to get to Samus Returns’
 

XenoWarriorX

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,278
you have to survive federation force to get to prime 4 though
ANd like Federation Force, I'll boycott it the same as any other "disservice" that Nintendo gives to a franchise.
This^
As a Metroid fan I can say that I understand it when Nintendo ignores a franchise longer than they should. Sure F-ZERO has been a longer wait but, the fact that Nintendo at least acknowledges it's existence in other titles (Smash, Mario Kart) is better than how some series are treated (Like how Microsoft treats Banjo-Kazooie). Nintendo has an enormous amount of franchises to keep up with (as is recorded in Super Smash Bros.) so I am more likely to give them a pass when they leave a franchise behind for awhile.
I certainly won't give them a pass when they leave behind their fans for over 14 years.

They don't deserve ****.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Which is what F-Zero fans are perfectly fine with when it comes to Black Shadow. They just want a 2nd character who would fit the heros vs villains archetype that Ultimate seems to be going for.



The reason Ninten is supported is because Echos are so easy to produce and would not cost much in labor costs and resources. It would easily fit the newcomers for the trilogy of the series. (You could also argue that Duster is supported for a new take on a moveset as well, but Ninten is more prominent since he would complete the protagonist representation of each game in the series)



The Metroid part is right, but many would love to have Krystal bring her own original moveset that no other Star Fox character has.



The issue is that Smash Brothers has multiple franchises that spans the entirety of Nintendo's history. To have the roster mainly support Pokemon, Kirby, Mario and Fire Emblem characters is a disservice to the vast pool of franchises that exists in Nintendo's family and library.



How do you think they are "getting torn down"? Do you believe the general Smash fan base wants the roster to mainly consist of Pokemon, Fire Emblem and Mario characters? Smash is a great way for Nintendo to introduce/reintroduce long forgotten franchises and breathe life back into old franchises.

You cannot tear down Pokemon, Kirby, Mario and Fire Emblem because not getting new characters would not effect their series at all; whereas, series like Golden Sun would benefit immensely from Smash recognition. Fire Emblem needed that boost to kick off in the States.



The Reboot Cast depends on what the goal of the Reboot itself is. Is it about Nintendo's history and the franchises it picked up over the years? Well there goes the majority of the Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Kirby and Mario casts; especially, if the roster space is extremely limited. If you need one character to represent each franchise that Nintendo owns then you can bet that big Nintendo series like Mario would be severely neutered in size.
You know a fanbase is thirsty as **** when all they’re asking for is an Echo Fighter. Man, I hope Black Shadow and Ninten get in.
 

Dionaea_floridensis

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
484
you're close.

K. Rool was definitely at the bottom of that. People were focused on getting Diddy Kong in the game first and he was one of the shoo-ins for Brawl.

So, it'd be Ridley, Geno, gap, Isaac, big gap, K. Rool
Was the gap between Geno and Isaac filled with other choices or was it just a gap of numbers?
 

Flynn.Scifo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
687
Location
Paris . France
I just want a good old Zelda game, because Skyward sword and Botw were very disappointing to me. I'm kinda sad everyone seem to like this new empty open world zelda thing.
 

Oracle_Summon

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
5,059
Was the gap between Geno and Isaac filled with other choices or was it just a gap of numbers?
I would believe it is a gap of numbers as Brawl was the introduction of the Golden Sun franchise to many, myself included.

I just want a good old Zelda game, because Skyward sword and Botw were very disappointing to me. I'm kinda sad everyone seem to like this new empty open world zelda thing.
You mean old Zelda games like Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask or Link to the Past and the Original?
 

SmashBro99

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,199
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CT.
3DS FC
4957-2747-2945
Lets just make an F-Zero fighting game, since he's a fighting game character at this point lol.

I don't think I can imagine a game where Falcon is playable and he doesnt have his Falcon Punch or knee xD

Clearly I've never played any F-Zero
 
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XenoWarriorX

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,278
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDu6MMSgyLE I don't know if you guys have seen this yet, but...it's a tad disappointing to me honestly.
If verge is advocating a guy who says Steve is likely going to be a character when

1. Banjo is much more wanted by the smash and Nintendo crowd.
2. Microsoft isn't gonna get 2 reps in base.
3. Minecraft's Steve would be a pretty boring character to put in smash in comparison to any other Microsft rep.

So no. I don't think it's real.

However, if it DOES turn out to be real. Then i'll be very disappointed in sakurai for picking Steve over banjo.


Lets just make an F-Zero fighting game, since he's a fighting game character at this point lol.

I don't think I can imagine a game where Falcon is playable and he doesnt have his Falcon Punch or knee xD

Clearly I've never played any F-Zero
If you want a F-Zero fighting game, clearly smash is the place for you.

As for the "true" fans we'll ask for actual good racing games instead.
 
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Dionaea_floridensis

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
484
I think the backlash to a playable Minecraft character would be bigger than most assume. The game has a really bad stigma attached to it and would make many character fan bases extremely salty, Banjo fans would probably riot.
I personally would sigh and feel numb for a while, knowing that a minecraft character and Wii Fit Trainer can fight on Gaur Plains using Death Scythes and Ore Clubs.
 

Oracle_Summon

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
5,059
Lets just make an F-Zero fighting game, since he's a fighting game character at this point lol.

I don't think I can imagine a game where Falcon is playable and he doesnt have his Falcon Punch or knee xD

Clearly I've never played any F-Zero
You mean like this game?

 

Rethuic

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Messages
81
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDu6MMSgyLE I don't know if you guys have seen this yet, but...it's a tad disappointing to me honestly.
Disappointing because despite Verge saying there would be some Minecraft stuff, there is no way that Steve would be playable and people are believing this a bit. There is just no way I can see Nintendo making Steve playable for whatever reason. A stage? Ok, that could be fun. Assist trophy? Ok, I can see that. Playable character? Boi, he is less likely than Waluigi being Ultimate.
 
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