Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[ZelDan]

Still waiting for best Lord Hector.

I'd love it if Lyn were playable but at this point I think she's permanently stuck in AT limbo.

 

[Kalaam]

I'd love it if Lyn were playable but at this point I think she's permanently stuck in AT limbo.

Sadly. I love best girl Lyndis but Hector would just be too cool with his enormous axe. Especially the way he swings it around like it was nothing.

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

we're gonna get our ***** kicked. but at least it's to banjo and not some mook.

You never know. Isaac did scary good against BWD. I’m actually shocked and confused after the last one.

Maybe this one will be more neck and neck. B&K maybe have the numbers on us initially, but we have the tenacity to push through, just like with Dee.

 

[Graf von Tirol]

we're gonna get our ***** kicked. but at least it's to banjo and not some mook.

I wouldn't quite say that. BWD from what I saw did have some degree of personality as well as a fanbase, and I could see the next poll go either way.

Anyways, although Geno is #1 on my wishlist, I'm also pulling for Isaac (as well as the Bear and Bird, which makes this next poll tough for me. Hoo boy!) for this one. I may not have played his games (though I did buy Golden Sun: Dark Dawn a few days back with intent to play it), but it would be nice to have another old Nintendo property revisited for Smash Ultimate.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'd agree, but I don't think anyone can justify any more Fire Emblem characters after Chrom, so that's not exactly the best point to be made.

And I'd argue Incineroar is among the worst mons you could pick if you want to represent the breadth of the series, since it's not a type that's not already in smash.

I think there’s room for Lyn, especially if some other character gets cut. Beyond Lyn I think we’re done for a while.

 

[ZelDan]

Sadly. I love best girl Lyndis but Hector would just be too cool with his enormous axe. Especially the way he swings it around like it was nothing.

Hector's never really been on my radar as far as SMash in concerned, but sure he's cool and he would atleast be unique and show people that there are other weapons in FE than just swords.

 

[LasermasterA]

Hector's never really been on my radar as far as SMash in concerned, but sure he's cool and he would atleast be unique and show people that there are other weapons in FE than just swords.

What?

I can't hear you over this new sword lord I'm adding to Smash!

- Sakurai

 

[Fire Tactician]

I'd agree, but I don't think anyone can justify any more Fire Emblem characters after Chrom, so that's not exactly the best point to be made.

And I'd argue Incineroar is among the worst mons you could pick if you want to represent the breadth of the series, since it's not a type that's not already in smash.

Oh, agreed on the first point- Chrom and Corrin both already kinda count as the new FE reps since there hasn't been a new release (except for Heroes) since Smash 4. Though he's an Echo, I still count Chrom as this Smash's new FE rep and I'm perfectly content. Would I mind Celica? Nope. Do I expect her? Nope. Am I totally fine that we got arguably one of the most deserving reps as this game's new Smash rep? You betcha.

Also agreed on the second point- I think he's a very poor choice. Can he be fun? Sure. Will some fans of Alola like him? Sure. Is he the best choice? Nope. I think that Lycanroc (my most wanted), Decidueye (though I'd personally stray away from starters since ~1/3 of players won't agree with the choice), and Tapu Koko (better representing Alola) would fit much better.

Still waiting for best Lord Hector.

Aren't we all?

 

[Rethuic]

I wouldn't quite say that. BWD from what I saw did have some degree of personality as well as a fanbase, and I could see the next poll go either way.

Anyways, although Geno is #1 on my wishlist, I'm also pulling for Isaac (as well as the Bear and Bird, which makes this next poll tough for me. Hoo boy!) for this one. I may not have played his games (though I did buy Golden Sun: Dark Dawn a few days back with intent to play it), but it would be nice to have another old Nintendo property revisited for Smash Ultimate.

Original Golden Sun games are much better than Dark Dawn, so you know. Dark Dawn is sorta meh compared to the other two games

 

[Jupiter Ivan]

I think there’s room for Lyn, especially if some other character gets cut. Beyond Lyn I think we’re done for a while.

The only knock against Lyn is that she’s yet another FE swords(wo)man. In a series with Axes, lances, bows, dragons, beastmen and magic.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I think one new one per Smash isn't too much to ask for, but they did set an odd precedent in Smashes 1-3 by adding two for each (with Brawl "technically" adding 4). It wasn't really a problem in earlier games, as Squirtle, Ivysaur, Pichu, and Mewtwo (originally) were cut, but when putting them together in Ultimate, it looks a little silly. Ultimate should be allowed to add one more rep, but with Mewtwo, Pichu, and Pokemon Trainer's two other Pokemon coming back, it looks like it's added 4 characters already.

That said, I've never seen Pokemon Trainer as three individual characters. Each Pokemon has a fatal flaw screws it over in a few matchups and all three Pokemon should be used to make up for these flaws. Charizard has poor neutral since he's big and slower, Squirtle lacks KO power and is easy to launch, and Ivysaur is easier to launch and doesn't quite excel unless the matchup favors him. Sure, Charizard has the clout to warrant Smash inclusion, but Squirtle and Ivysaur don't really have a place in Smash unless conceived as part of a greater Pokemon Trainer moveset. Just an old Pokemon Trainer main weighing in...

TLDR: Pokemon looks like it has more reps than it should, even though it's been better balanced in the past.

Actually, I'd justify more Pokemon reps for the same reason that I'd justify more Fire Emblem ones- they're character based series with rotating protagonists. They don't keep the core cast the spotlight for every game like Mario and Kirby do- they need more characters to better represent the breadth of their series.

That's not actually a good reason.

No matter what, Charzard Squitle and Ivysaur are counted as seperate characters. No matter what, they count. No matter how their fatal flaws make them dependable on each other.

And yes. 1 per entry is too much to ask. We've already got 9 Pokémon reps. And even then, it has about as much as Fire Emblem or Mario. At that's point, I'd say to calm the **** down.

And no. If FE **needs** the characters to better represent their franchise, then they shouldn't have spent so many spots dedicated to Awakenibg.

(The same goes for Gen 1 for Pokémon.)

You know what series DO desperately need the representation? F-Zero. Mother. Xenoblade. Star Fox. Kirby ( since it has a huge cast like FE and Pokémon), Metroid, and even some of the unrepresented franchises.

At this point, until those franchises get some attention, I will never NOT be salty over the inclusion of a 10TH Pokemon character.

 

[TappyBat]

That's not actually a good reason.

No matter what, Charzard Squitle and Ivysaur are counted as seperate characters. No matter what, they count. No matter how their fatal flaws make them dependable on each other.

And yes. 1 per entry is too much to ask. We've already got 9 Pokémon reps. And even then, it has about as much as Fire Emblem or Mario. At that's point, I'd say to calm the **** down.

And no. If FE **needs** the characters to better represent their franchise, then they shouldn't have spent so many spots dedicated to Awakenibg.

(The same goes for Gen 1 for Pokémon.)

You know what series DO desperately need the representation? F-Zero. Mother. Xenoblade. Star Fox. Kirby ( since it has a huge cast like FE and Pokémon), Metroid, and even some of the unrepresented franchises.

At this point, until those franchises get some attention, I will never NOT be salty over the inclusion of a 10TH Pokemon character.

"oh but pokemon "deserves" a 10th it outsales everything in the universe! everyone knows that." >.> really hate when people do this. it's stupid. like sales aren't everything yknow

 

[ZelDan]

What?

I can't hear you over this new sword lord I'm adding to Smash!

- Sakurai

Sakurai: You'll never be able to guess what this character's down special will-
Me: is it a counter move?
Sakurai: ....

 

[Fire Tactician]

That's not actually a good reason.

To each their own.

I'd personally say that F-Zero and Mother are fine since their series are kinda dead at this point, while I'd agree that XC should have more representation for the same reason as FE. Star Fox is in an odd place where we're not quite seeing them with a plan for any sort of growth, but I'd take a new character from them.

Kirby does fall into the same hole that I think Zelda and Mario do, with every game featuring Kirby himself supported by a flavor of the week character, but I wouldn't be opposed to starting to see more of those in other series as well (Ghirahim from Zelda, Nabbit from Mario, and Marx from Kirby all seem like examples of such characters), however, Smash has yet to really do that (Rosalina only got in after she became a series staple).

Also, agreed on the point that FE:A and Gen I shouldn't be oversaturated with newcomers, but I do think that Chrom was an exception to that because of his popularity and the ease of making him an Echo- even more than other characters, his model was already there.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

"oh but pokemon "deserves" a 10th it outsales everything in the universe! everyone knows that." >.> really hate when people do this. it's stupid. like sales aren't everything yknow

It's like people want me to feel sympathetic for Pokémon because "they need representives to represent the entire series."

Boo hoo. You expect me to give any ****s? Of course I don't. F-Zero probably won't get one, yet another Pokémon yet manages to skip past the "ballot" line just because it's Pokémon.

I hold no sympathy for a franchise that already is super successful (and doesn't need Smash to advertise.)

To each their own.

I'd personally say that F-Zero and Mother are fine since their series are kinda dead at this point, while I'd agree that XC should have more representation for the same reason as FE. Star Fox is in an odd place where we're not quite seeing them with a plan for any sort of growth, but I'd take a new character from them.

Kirby does fall into the same hole that I think Zelda and Mario do, with every game featuring Kirby himself supported by a flavor of the week character, but I wouldn't be opposed to starting to see more of those in other series as well (Ghirahim from Zelda, Nabbit from Mario, and Marx from Kirby all seem like examples of such characters), however, Smash has yet to really do that (Rosalina only got in after she became a series staple).

Also, agreed on the point that FE:A and Gen I shouldn't be oversaturated with newcomers, but I do think that Chrom was an exception to that because of his popularity and the ease of making him an Echo- even more than other characters, his model was already there.

"I think F-Zero and Mother are fine since their series are dead anyway."


Annnd, that's where I stopped.

 

[Q-Long]

It's from Tales of Asteria.

... wow every series has a gacha/mobile game nowadays huh

 

[Delta64]

I decided to make an analysis/theory thing concerning the music samples on the Smash Ultimate website. This case relates to how likely are we to get a newcomer from a new series (possibly Golden Sun). I put it in a spoiler due to its length. I normally do not do things like this but, please enjoy and give me feedback! I know this analysis is just speculation but, I made it to identify the information we have now and what it could mean for the final game if it stays consistent.

Spoiler: Music Sample Analysis

The music sample section on the Smash Ultimate website contains 17 music samples (excluding the SSBU main theme) and there are 11 more music samples to be revealed before release. For nearly every newcomer this section adds a song from that character's series, shortly after their announcement (some examples include Brinstar Depths for , Bomb Rush Blush for , Bloody Tears/Monster Dance for , Gang-Plank Galleon for , and Title Theme for Isabelle). The only exceptions to this rule are certain echo fighters like and . Needless to say, it is pretty much certain that the next unique newcomer will have music from their series on the website soon after their reveal.

Consider further the fact that, so far, all the music samples on the website are from different series. In other words, no series has more than one sample track here. Because of this, I find it hard to see any new unique characters from a series that already has a music sample making it into the base roster (sorry fans of Bandanna Waddle Dee and Skull Kid). I do think these series still have a chance of seeing an echo (like Ken and/or Dixie Kong) after all, the Brinstar Depths sample is a Metroid track that was on the website before the reveal of . On the other hand, any series that has not received a sample track could see a new character followed by a music track. This logic supports the possibility of a unique new Pokemon character since there is no sample track from the series yet.

By following this logic, we will likely get more samples in the coming weeks that will be from series that will not be represented with a new unique fighter. Due to Isabelle being revealed last week, it is likely we will not be getting any more reveals for roughly another month which means that at least three music samples will be added to the site in the meantime. While this is just my guess, such series could very well be series like Star Fox and Kid Icarus.

Considering how many music samples are left to be revealed and the fact that we should know the full roster before release, I would say the odds of there being another franchise is quite high (especially considering we know that there are several stages left to reveal). We can only guess as to what that/those franchise(s) could be. I hope this analysis has shown that keeping an eye on music sample updates may help provide a clearer picture for character speculation.

Spoiler: Bonus Composer mini-analysis/wishful thinking

On the SSBU website, in the music section, every music sample has a different arrangement/arrangement supervisor (with one exception being Hideki Sakamoto who is credited for the SSBU Main Theme and the Pikmin Main Theme).

The most recent music sample on the website (at the time of this analysis) is the Title Theme from Animal Crossing: Happy Home Designer. What is interesting about this arrangement is that the supervisor (Kazumi Totaka) was a staff member from the original game! This has made me curious about Motoi Sakuraba, who is confirmed to be making arrangements for SSBU but, has not appeared on any of the music samples released so far. For those who do not know Motoi Sakuraba, he worked on the soundtrack for all three Golden Sun games. It may just be wishful thinking but, it sure would be nice to see him working on his previous songs as well.

 

[Kalaam]

How would Sakuraba being credited point to that ?
If the keep the old arrangement from Brawl/ WiiU they still have to credit him right ? Doesn't mean he aranged new musics.
But if they credit him because this is new tracks, then yeah it's good.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The only knock against Lyn is that she’s yet another FE swords(wo)man. In a series with Axes, lances, bows, dragons, beastmen and magic.

Yeah but I don’t care because she’s awesome and would be unique.

People complain about swordfighters but I think what they really mean is they don’t want another repeat of Marth’s moveset.

 

[LuminoZero]

It's the timing, really. That they haven't yet credited him or revealed one of his songs could be considered another point in Isaac's favor.

 

[Organization XIII]

"oh but pokemon "deserves" a 10th it outsales everything in the universe! everyone knows that." >.> really hate when people do this. it's stupid. like sales aren't everything yknow

Tell that to the people who are mad a tiny series like FE or KI have so many characters

 

[Delta64]

How would Sakuraba being credited point to that ?
If the keep the old arrangement from Brawl/ WiiU they still have to credit him right ? Doesn't mean he aranged new musics.
But if they credit him because this is new tracks, then yeah it's good.

It is confirmed he is working on new arrangements. He worked on the new Parasite Queen remix (as seen in the August Smash direct).

 

[tveye]

Lol, Isaac is winning this poll on Gamefaqs.
https://www.strawpoll.me/16489934

 

[LasermasterA]

Lol, Isaac is winning this poll on Gamefaqs.
https://www.strawpoll.me/16489934

All your polls are belong to us!

- Isaac

 

[Graf von Tirol]

Original Golden Sun games are much better than Dark Dawn, so you know. Dark Dawn is sorta meh compared to the other two games

Yeah... if only there's a way outside of emulation (the 3DS is my first and so far only Nintendo device in my possession).

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

Next, we go up against Banjo-Kazooie. Whichever way that goes, it's going to be a brutal matchup.

You'll have my vote. Banjo is sweet, but Isaac is Isaac.

 

[Delta64]

Yeah but I don’t care because she’s awesome and would be unique.

People complain about swordfighters but I think what they really mean is they don’t want another repeat of Marth’s moveset.

I think it is important that characters from a series are more diverse than that. For example: imagine if instead of Lucario and Greninja we had Pachirisu and Dedenne. Even if they had completely unique moves and were decently fun to use, I think many people would agree that there is more to Pokemon than electric rodents.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Lol, Isaac is winning this poll on Gamefaqs.
https://www.strawpoll.me/16489934

Sub Zero is above Heiachi? Color me surprised.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Sub Zero is above Heiachi? Color me surprised.

Isaac above B&K? This isn't GameFAQS.

 

[Q-Long]

Yeah... if only there's a way outside of emulation (the 3DS is my first and so far only Nintendo device in my possession).

How did you play smrpg? :0

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Isaac above B&K? This isn't GameFAQS.

It really seems like Isaac fans are pulling out all the stops to make sure that Isaac is noticed by Nintendo and Sakurai. All of these polls would show support and a want for Isaac so he could potentially make it as DLC.

 

[Kalaam]

All your polls are belong to us!

- Isaac

Being a silent protagonist for so long your grammar really damages, does it not ?

 

[Confirmation]

Being a silent protagonist for so long your grammar really damages, does it not ?

Nah, it's just that Isaac's from early 2000's. He's doomed to have stale memes

 

[Lonodel]

Being a silent protagonist for so long your grammar really damages, does it not ?

I see you did there what

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

Am i the only one feeling Geno is a lock? Like, he had the mii costume, Square and Nintendo have been getting along well since the Switch launched, and Sakurai himself has said he wants him. I like Geno, he's my number 2, so I hope I'm not seeing nothing here.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Am i the only one feeling Geno is a lock? Like, he had the mii costume, Square and Nintendo have been getting along well since the Switch launched, and Sakurai himself has said he wants him. I like Geno, he's my number 2, so I hope I'm not seeing nothing here.

Geno does have a lot going in his favor:

1. Geno was wanted by Sakurai during Brawl but Square was not willing to play ball at the time.
2. Would perfectly represent the Mario RPG series.
3. Mii costume was one of the few (if not the only) that got a splash screen that newcomers got.
4. Is a character with a lot of support that dates back to Brawl days.

 

[ZelDan]

Am i the only one feeling Geno is a lock? Like, he had the mii costume, Square and Nintendo have been getting along well since the Switch launched, and Sakurai himself has said he wants him. I like Geno, he's my number 2, so I hope I'm not seeing nothing here.

He's probably the closest to a lock we have now. Only other character I ever felt was a lock for Smash Switch was Inkling and we learned about them before we even knew we were looking at a new Smash game.

He has a lot going in his favor and I would actually be surprised if he didn't make it in as playable.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

We only need a few more posts to break 19k posts. Holy crap. This is just surreal. I hope somebody from Nintendo is seeing this. We've accomplished in 6 months what took us 3 years last go around.

 

[ZelDan]

So close to 19k

So, uh...how about that Isaac? He sure is cool, amirite fellas?

 

[Graf von Tirol]

How did you play smrpg? :0

When I was a kid, my cousins had the game on their SNES. I revisited it via emulators while in my high school and early college years, though these days I don't really dabble in emulation unless there's no way for me to buy it on modern systems. If only that game and the Golden Sun series gets released on the 3DS VC...