Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[TempestSurge]

Why do a lot of people seem to take the box theory as "proven fact", anyway?

It's a promotional image for a game that release a few months from now likely made from guesswork.

I would have to say that a news source given information straight from Nintendo (CoroCoro) is vastly more trustworthy.

So's the life of a smash fan where pessimism is the name of the game. The worst case scenario is always the only scenario until Sakurai debunks it. Things like this get entertained for as long as they do when there's long waits between info and there's nothing currently to disprove it. So during span of a day you'll get, 'I don't believe this box theory!' to 'You know what this is looking more and more likely. Time to pack up and jump on the dlc train!' even when no info has come out either way, just cause some find it easier to assume the worst and not get hopes up after Sakurai specified not to expect many newcomers.

The roster was decided before this box thing was in existence so whatever people are wanting to believe now won't change who was already decided to be on the game. So if there's two characters left, doesn't make it any less likely for it to not be Isaac.

 

[Tetiro]

I'd rather have exquisite 2D like Rayman origins / legends. If we go the 3D route something like the incoming Spyro remake would look sumptuous. I'm also a die hard fan of cell-shading a la wind waker.

Damn the image of Golden Sun looking like the Spyro remake has me wobbly at the knees

 

[Enchess]

Isaac is literally the ONE character which could proof the whole box theory wrong and blow it out of the waters. Same with everyone riding the Vergeben predictions bandwagonist ride. I still put in more faith in the 'tease' by Sakurai, than what all these other guys got to say. Hopefully Isaac's reveal will still pull through and give us speculators some hope again. Isaac is the one character I can see this doing, and it would be extra hype to me if Isaac did this all.

As for what style Golden Sun should have in a modern age? I still hope on a sort of celshaded look, but focussing most on a similar sort of art style as the original GBA Golden Sun games. I even wouldn't mind them using sprites if it polishes the look. Leave the fancy 3D effects for Summons and Psynergy, as well as the backgrounds and stuff. I want the game to look colorful but with a certain debt in the enviorments like the original games did.

How would Isaac blow box theory out of water? The only singular characters capable of sinking the theory are echoes of characters not in the bottom row of the opposite side. No unique newcomers disapproves it period. The box theory does not say anything specific about who the 1 unique character is.

 

[Q-Long]

When I played Dark Dawn it was pretty hard to get adjusted to the art style. It was a typical 3d DS jrpg art style, so it was not bad, but the transition from pre rendered 3d sprites was jarring for me. The in game style of the first two games have been burnt into my mind as "this is golden sun". Course Donkey Kong and Mortal Kombat were able to escape that :b

King K Rool has clay like motions in Ultimate to reference the art style in DKC. I wouldn't mind if they some how made a cel shaded art style but with some elements of the GS1 and GS2 art style retained.

Also whoever does the art at Arc System Works could do the animation. Seems perfect for them.

Spoiler

 

[Tetiro]

When I played Dark Dawn it was pretty hard to get adjusted to the art style. It was a typical 3d DS jrpg art style, so it was not bad, but the transition from pre rendered 3d sprites was jarring for me. The in game style of the first two games have been burnt into my mind as "this is golden sun". Course Donkey Kong and Mortal Kombat were able to escape that :b

King K Rool has clay like motions in Ultimate to reference the art style in DKC. I wouldn't mind if they some how made a cel shaded art style but with some elements of the GS1 and GS2 art style retained.

Also whoever does the art at Arc System Works could do the animation. Seems perfect for them.

Spoiler

That is 100% the art style I was thinking of. Clean but flawed. Reminds me so much of Golden Sun

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Tales of symphonia is a good exemple of JRPG using cell shading but the animations in this game are very outdated.

 

[Gioka]

How would Isaac blow box theory out of water? The only singular characters capable of sinking the theory are echoes of characters not in the bottom row of the opposite side. No unique newcomers disapproves it period. The box theory does not say anything specific about who the 1 unique character is.

I think it is because people assume the newcomer of the Box is Incineroar. So if Isaac makes it in before Incineroar does either Vergeben was wrong or the Box theory gets blown because so far there hasn't been a game where Pokémon doesn't get a newcomer. (granted, those patterns have to be taken with a grain of salt too since it was the same for Zelda until Smash 4)

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think it is because people assume the newcomer of the Box is Incineroar. So if Isaac makes it in before Incineroar does either Vergeben was wrong or the Box theory gets blown because so far there hasn't been a game where Pokémon doesn't get a newcomer. (granted, those patterns have to be taken with a grain of salt too since it was the same for Zelda until Smash 4)

The problem is the box theory doesn't mean it has to be Incineroar. People just assume it is because "Pokemon always gets a newcomer."

 

[Kalaam]

The thing I liked about Dark Dawn art style was the "drawing" effect of the environnement and psynergies.
It felt like the psynergy was drawn, animated, unnatural. It's a very good idea to make something feel magical. Imagine this in a movie, a photorealistic one, and then when someone does magic, the magic effect is 2D animated. Drawed (or feels like it). That would feel out of the world, which would make sense.

 

[Enchess]

I think it is because people assume the newcomer of the Box is Incineroar. So if Isaac makes it in before Incineroar does either Vergeben was wrong or the Box theory gets blown because so far there hasn't been a game where Pokémon doesn't get a newcomer. (granted, those patterns have to be taken with a grain of salt too since it was the same for Zelda until Smash 4)

If, hypothetically, we received info from the future that Isaac is in Smash and Incineroar is not, Verg (or at least the remaining unproven of his leaks) would be blown out of the water and box theory would be alive and kicking without even having to adjust itself at all. No claiming that Isaac is an exception. No trying to justify the events with their theory. It already fits perfectly.

Since it's possible for Verg's remaining leaks to be 100% wrong and box theory to be 100% right at the same time (and vice versa), it's a fallacy to connect them the way people have been.

 

[Rethuic]

The problem is the box theory doesn't mean it has to be Incineroar. People just assume it is because "Pokemon always gets a newcomer."

I'd actually laugh if Incineroar somehow doesn't get in and we get Isaac. I know that would be an unlikely case, in fact I once saw a leak suggesting Isaac and Incineroar would be in the same direct, but it would still be funny. Also, Pokemon doesn't always have to get a newcomer. No Zelda newcomer in Smash 4 and all.

 

[Enchess]

I'd actually laugh if Incineroar somehow doesn't get in and we get Isaac. I know that would be an unlikely case, in fact I once saw a leak suggesting Isaac and Incineroar would be in the same direct, but it would still be funny. Also, Pokemon doesn't always have to get a newcomer. No Zelda newcomer in Smash 4 and all.

My prediction I've been repeating since E3 is no new Pokemon and Isaac is the most likely character after K Rool.

 

[Rethuic]

My prediction I've been repeating since E3 is no new Pokemon and Isaac is the most likely character after K Rool.

Well, we shall see. Hope and pray for Isaac and let the Golden Sun rise again and all that jazz.

 

[Tetiro]

I'd actually laugh if Incineroar somehow doesn't get in and we get Isaac. I know that would be an unlikely case, in fact I once saw a leak suggesting Isaac and Incineroar would be in the same direct, but it would still be funny. Also, Pokemon doesn't always have to get a newcomer. No Zelda newcomer in Smash 4 and all.

I saw that leak too and it was deconfirmed the moment the Direct started having some of its announcements revealed

I think we will get a Pokemon rep. But it will be shown in a generic Direct as the common theme I see is the demand characters (Simon, K Rool, Chrom and Dark Samus) are being revealed during Smash Directs while the common characters (Daisy, Isabelle, Snake, Inklings and Ridley) have all been in generic Directs

So if a generic Direct rears its head before December then a Pokemon rep is pretty much a lock

 

[Xithyl_kykorl]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if pokemon doesn't get a rep this time around, granted they already have 9 reps in ultimate. I don't really think they need any more, at least for a good while if supposed future smash titles follow suit to ultimate in returning everyone. Considering the reaction people had to Fire Emblem in smash 4, with pokemon having considerably more reps than that, I honestly don't think it's very likely at all. People are simply working off that pokemon has always had a new rep, which made sense because there were always some removed. I don't think it's really fair to make assumptions based on what series "always get reps" considering how differently Ultimate is being treated compared to past entries. That being said, I feel if anything, we'd get more characters for the less represented nintendo series, or newcomers that currently aren't represented.

EDIT: This mentality also follows the characters we've gotten. We got 2 more Metroid reps, for a total of 4. We got another Animal Crossing rep for 2. We got another DKC rep for 3. We got Inkling for a Splatoon rep.

 

[Billybae10K]

I think the thing about there being 108 stages actually raises our chances slightly. One stage that was actually made by some fans is Venus Lighthouse. Nintendo knows Isaac is popular and he's even been hinted at by Sakurai. I recall that Verge did once say that people underestimate Isaac's popularity, so he might've hinted at Isaac there. If Isaac is confirmed, box theory would end and other Smash threads might be more hopeful, particularly the Geno thread. If Isaac gets in, why not Geno? I am positive Isaac has a huge chance. Billybo, raise Isaac's chance to 90%. You know you want to.

You know I'd love to raise Isaac's chances, but I gotta stay with the system I've got in place. It's working (Given Isabelle was my most expected newcomer just based on my ratings and look what happened). Trust me though, I'd happily raise Isaac to a 70/75% if we get a few credible leaks on him.

 

[Rethuic]

You know I'd love to raise Isaac's chances, but I gotta stay with the system I've got in place. It's working (Given Isabelle was my most expected newcomer just based on my ratings and look what happened). Trust me though, I'd happily raise Isaac to a 70/75% if we get a few credible leaks on him.

AKA, if Verge says Isaac has a chance and other leakers say he could be in.

 

[Billybae10K]

AKA, if Verge says Isaac has a chance and other leakers say he could be in.

Pretty much. Everyone knows I'm Pro-Verge in terms of entertaining his leaks. I'm not saying everything he says is confirmed as I have my doubts on the Minecraft content, but he's not made any massive mistakes that should sink his leak.

Also can we PLEASE have Isaac as the next newcomer so he can be known as Fighter 69, because I'm immature and find that hilarious

 

[Luigifan18]

Pretty much. Everyone knows I'm Pro-Verge in terms of entertaining his leaks. I'm not saying everything he says is confirmed as I have my doubts on the Minecraft content, but he's not made any massive mistakes that should sink his leak.

Also can we PLEASE have Isaac as the next newcomer so he can be known as Fighter 69, because I'm immature and find that hilarious

Incineroar being Fighter 69 would be hilarious, considering the crotch memes it already has.

 

[Gioka]

The problem is the box theory doesn't mean it has to be Incineroar. People just assume it is because "Pokemon always gets a newcomer."

Uhm you may want to re read my comment as I said exactly that xD people assume Incineroar because Pokémon and because Vergeben. Doesn't mean that is right. If (and I doubt it) the box theory is right, I still think Isaac has a very good chance and the Pokémon could make it as DLC (maybe a Gen 8 Pokémon)

Since it's possible for Verg's remaining leaks to be 100% wrong and box theory to be 100% right at the same time (and vice versa), it's a fallacy to connect them the way people have been.

I agree. That why I said I think that is the way people are seeing it. I even said that it could mean Vergeben is wrong.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I've been listening to Yes's Yessongs 1973 album all morning and now I feel a lot better

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I predict an image leak to come relatively soon, it's been a while since the last one.

 

[TempestSurge]

How would Isaac blow box theory out of water? The only singular characters capable of sinking the theory are echoes of characters not in the bottom row of the opposite side. No unique newcomers disapproves it period. The box theory does not say anything specific about who the 1 unique character is.

I always thought of it as, Isaac gets confirmed, comes with new stage. CoroCoro's 108 would thus not be a typo (people are still choosing not to believe) and thus the other 4 stages out of that number could be led to believe that another two at least would be coupled with a newcomer. Jump on over to Verge's credible track record so far. Some people are believing both the box theory and Verge, leaving out the Square rep they see the final two as Incineroar and Ken only to go with the placement of the echo and newcomer on the box.

Isaac being confirmed doesn't do anything to Verge since he never made a claim that Isaac wasn't in or that his list of the ones he know is currently all there is. So that means Incineroar and Ken (and the Square rep) are still possible characters that can happen since he hasn't claimed a character that hasn't shown up yet. But I'm not following the box theory too closely so maybe I'm off and not paying attention to specifics, there's so much theories going around it's hard to keep up with what debunks what.

 

[KMDP]

Why do a lot of people seem to take the box theory as "proven fact", anyway?

It's a promotional image for a game that release a few months from now likely made from guesswork.

I would have to say that a news source given information straight from Nintendo (CoroCoro) is vastly more trustworthy.

I've noticed that a lot of people vouching for Box Theory are those who've either:

1. already got their most wanted (generally Ridley)
2. don't care about any other character other than the one they want above all others (generally Geno or Skull Kid)
3. already had their character disconfirmed (Ashley, Toad)

Make of that what you will.

(By the way, I like your Vaati avatar)

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Why do people choose to believe Coro made and typo and the box ? Not only it is imo one big denial but It's like saying I don't want more stage and only 2 lame reveals.

 

[JaidynReiman]

IMO Isaac is still in. CoroCoro confirmed more new stages, and even then Isaac's stage could've just been a ? mark for launch (that may be why they didn't confirm 108 earlier, or more likely, Sakurai wanted to report on the milestone of hitting 100 stages). People are being ridiculous. CoroCoro is a monthly magazine and this goes through repeated reviews to get the facts right. CoroCoro has leaked plenty of big info tidbits in the past.

 

[Nazyrus]

Why do people choose to believe Coro made and typo and the box ? Not only it is imo one big denial but It's like saying I don't want more stage and only 2 lame reveals.

It is definitely hunger for denial. People these days have the weird habit of wanting to believe baseless theories about a placeholder thingy to put their hype down instead of looking for stuff to get hyped up -shrugs- That's mainly why i stopped going into the general discussion thread, it just sickens me the stupid attitude already.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

IMO Isaac is still in. CoroCoro confirmed more new stages, and even then Isaac's stage could've just been a ? mark for launch (that may be why they didn't confirm 108 earlier, or more likely, Sakurai wanted to report on the milestone of hitting 100 stages). People are being ridiculous. CoroCoro is a monthly magazine and this goes through repeated reviews to get the facts right. CoroCoro has leaked plenty of big info tidbits in the past.

No guys. Coro Coro made a typo. They had to work on this every month. Typos aren't possible, but I can definitely say it's possible. The box is more believable because it's from Nintendo's marketing team, who is close with Nintendo. But then Coro Coro is close with Nintendo...

Sorry. I am dedeciated to my boxes.

 

[Nazyrus]

No guys. Coro Coro made a typo. They had to work on this every month. Typos aren't possible, but I can definitely say it's possible. The box is more believable because it's from Nintendo's marketing team, who is close with Nintendo. But then Coro Coro is close with Nintendo...

Sorry. I am dedeciated to my boxes.

lmao yeah it's hilarious that there are actual people thinking that way. It's like they think CoroCoro isn't handled the material they print by Nintendo themselves.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

The news of CoroCoro's extra 5 stages means the potential of having 5 extra characters instead of the 3 that the boxart proposed. It also adds excitement since a stage is the 2nd best thing in regards to a character and not knowing who those stages can belong to.

 

[KMDP]

IMO Isaac is still in. CoroCoro confirmed more new stages, and even then Isaac's stage could've just been a ? mark for launch (that may be why they didn't confirm 108 earlier, or more likely, Sakurai wanted to report on the milestone of hitting 100 stages). People are being ridiculous. CoroCoro is a monthly magazine and this goes through repeated reviews to get the facts right. CoroCoro has leaked plenty of big info tidbits in the past.

There are some possibilities:

• Sakurai said there were 103 stages and deliberately left the stage selection screen left-justified as soft confirmation that there's going to be more than 103 stages.
• "All Stages are pre-unlocked" is a little white lie Sakurai told (or it's actually meant to be, "all the stages (you see on this screen) are pre-unlocked").
• 103 Stages is actually the final stage count, and there'll be no more than that.

No guys. Coro Coro made a typo. They had to work on this every month. Typos aren't possible, but I can definitely say it's possible. The box is more believable because it's from Nintendo. But then Coro Coro is close with Nintendo...

Sorry. I am dedeciated to my boxes.

"You can have these 5 new stages (and some characters to go with them) where the lovely CoroCoro is standing, or you can trade it all in for what's on this box."
"The Box. THE BOX!"

 

[TempestSurge]

I've noticed that a lot of people vouching for Box Theory are those who've either:

1. already got their most wanted (generally Ridley)
2. don't care about any other character other than the one they want above all others (generally Geno or Skull Kid)
3. already had their character disconfirmed (Ashley, Toad)

Make of that what you will.

(By the way, I like your Vaati avatar)

It's like firmly believing in the 103 stage theory while rooting for a newcomer that doesn't necessarily have to come with a new stage. Obviously no new stages deconfirms new IPs like Isaac and some popular third party picks like Banjo and Kazooie. I'd even add Geno to that list, sure he's a Mario character so he could technically use one of those stages as a home, but Sakurai treats third parties as honorary guests and he's owned by Square Enix so I don't see Geno coming without his own stage.

 

[Gioka]

To be completely honest I think if it had been a typo we would have gotten some apology or public announcement like "hey guys we noticed this and it was a misprint" or something to acknowledge that and we haven't. And it is already Tuesday in Japan.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

There are some possibilities:

• Sakurai said there were 103 stages and deliberately left the stage selection screen left-justified as soft confirmation that there's going to be more than 103 stages.
• "All Stages are pre-unlocked" is a little white lie Sakurai told (or it's actually meant to be, "all the stages (you see on this screen) are pre-unlocked").
• 103 Stages is actually the final stage count, and there'll be no more than that.

"You can have these 5 new stages (and some characters to go with them) where the lovely CoroCoro is standing, or you can trade it all in for what's on this box."
"The Box. THE BOX!"

A box. The only weapon to surpass *metal gear.*

It's like firmly believing in the 103 stage theory while rooting for a newcomer that doesn't necessarily have to come with a new stage. Obviously no new stages deconfirms new IPs like Isaac and some popular third party picks like Banjo and Kazooie. I'd even add Geno to that list, sure he's a Mario character so he could technically use one of those stages as a home, but Sakurai treats third parties as honorary guests and he's owned by Square Enix so I don't see Geno coming without his own stage.

I could see at least 3 stages being new. It's not totally a unreasonable assumption.


**Announcement.**

On the shantae thread, there is a user named Dyllybirdy . He's in critical condition near death. Even if this doesn't have anything to do with this thread, I think sending our good wishes would help. Going over to wish him good wishes on his profile, or going to the Shantae thread to say your prayers/wishes for them would be a good cause.

Thank you.

Edit: It's Dyllybirdy , not dillybird.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

To be completely honest I think if it had been a typo we would have gotten some apology or public announcement like "hey guys we noticed this and it was a misprint" or something to acknowledge that and we haven't. And it is already Tuesday in Japan.

Nintendo would also want things cleared up so a false premise is not presented to customers.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

How would Isaac blow box theory out of water? The only singular characters capable of sinking the theory are echoes of characters not in the bottom row of the opposite side. No unique newcomers disapproves it period. The box theory does not say anything specific about who the 1 unique character is.

To me, the one thing that can bury the box theory is if there is at least more than one Echo fighter, and at least two new regular newcomers in the next Smash Direct.

 

[Gioka]

What do you guys think we are getting first?
A) A single announcement / trailer similar to Robin/Lucina.
B) Smash direct
C) Nintendo direct with an Smash announcement like Isabelle

 

[Luigifan18]

What do you guys think we are getting first?
A) A single announcement / trailer similar to Robin/Lucina.
B) Smash direct
C) Nintendo direct with an Smash announcement like Isabelle

That question is already a thread.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

I think their best option for art style is octopath traveler and bravely series. Either one would fit Golden sun really well

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I think their best option for art style is octopath traveler and bravely series. Either one would fit Golden sun really well

You mean chibi or old school FFVI like ? I don't know about that. GS still looks very good on GBA, if remade I'd rather they go for something grandiose. If it's to keep an old school style a HD remaster would be enough.