Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[pholtos]

Even if Vergeben is right about his choices, don't forget he never knew anything about King K.Rool, Chrom and Dark Samus at all. There is obviously more characters than the ones he listed imo

Yeah, that's my hope. If all we get left are those two, I'd just be completely deflated hypewise.
Actually if they were revealed in the middle of all the reveals... I'd be ok with it. That'd actually be the wisest move. Mix in echoes throughout, have three hype characters at the start, three at the end. Have the less hype ones/ones for the general direct in the middle.
Thinking about it that way makes me feel better.

There's quite a few people assuming we're only going to be getting two more characters due to that stupid box.

 

[TempestSurge]

That makes sense that that would happen, yet, I would've expected an announcement for a working new Golden Sun last direct if that were to be the case. Sure enough, they might be with-holding that kind of announcement until Isaac would be confirmed, yet, I think it'd be in our safest interest to push regardless. Simply my opinion though.

Yep a Golden Sun game out of nowhere after 8 years would pretty much give away Isaac is in Smash and I'd only expect it if there was an Isaac trailer going to play at the end like how Isabelle's trailer teased a new Animal Crossing.

Also it depends on how the developers work, some games get teased with working titles and thats the only thing they have to show where others wait till they at least have a trailer or some gameplay. Announcements can go at their own pace, they could be working on it but still won't officially announce it to said audience till E3 next year or something.

Though Smash is the push Isaac needs to get Golden Sun back on track, Camelot has been waiting on this hypothetical fan demand to continue after Dark Dawn for eight years now. We can safely assume without Smash to boost Isaac's recognition and popularity, it's not happening.

 

[Deleted member]

It's tough to say how many of these remaining stages belong to returning stages. Keep in mind that many of them can be DLC, and there are a few cut for a specific reason. Mute City Melee is the only one we can confidently bet on returning due to its name distinction. The other 4 stages depend on who our remaining newcomers are and if they need a stage.

However, it is strange that any remaining veteran stages aren't a part of the known lineup already since they're presumably not hiding anything. Maybe Mute City Melee is the only one or maybe none of them are in. The best reason to hide a stage is if they spoil a newcomer, so perhaps all 5 belong to somebody we don't know of yet.

So for right now, this just keeps Isaac a very open and real possibility as a character, and somebody who would have one of those stages. With all else that we've mentioned could potentially favor him, he has some of the best evidence of any newcomer.

My gut feeling is that some of the remaining stages yet to return in Ultimate will be put in as DLC since it is highly likely the new stages will incorporate new fighters (assuming Ancestral Steepe is merely a boss stage given the lack of features). Nobody at all cares for Pac Land (it was a rather weird arcade game), so naturally, Pac-Maze will be in demand, and then there's the matter of Orbital Gate. Honestly, the only stages I do not see coming back are Planet Zebes and Sector Z for 64 (since those stages were updated for Melee), Mushroom Kingdom for Melee (64 Mushroom Kingdom) along with Icicle Mountain (Summit) and Poke Floats (scrolling stage), Rumble Falls in Brawl (another scrolling stage), and Pyrosphere and Miiverse from Wii U.

 

[pholtos]

My gut feeling is that some of the remaining stages yet to return in Ultimate will be put in as DLC since it is highly likely the new stages will incorporate new fighters (assuming Ancestral Steepe is merely a boss stage given the lack of features). Nobody at all cares for Pac Land (it was a rather weird arcade game), so naturally, Pac-Maze will be in demand, and then there's the matter of Orbital Gate. Honestly, the only stages I do not see coming back are Planet Zebes and Sector Z for 64 (since those stages were updated for Melee), Mushroom Kingdom for Melee (64 Mushroom Kingdom), Rumble Falls in Brawl, and Pyrosphere and Miiverse from Wii U.

Icicle Mountain?

 

[Deleted member]

Icicle Mountain?

Oh, yeah I don't see that returning. Scrolling stages are generally unpopular to begin with, plus I forgot to add Poke Floats in my original list.

Anyway, I know we probably don't want to mention Verge, but I don't mind Incineroar being the Gen 7 rep IF, and I mean IF, they play him up like an actual pro wrestler, where instead of spitting fire, he uses cheap shots and his grabs are submission holds like the chicken wing (the Million Dollar Dream is a slightly different variant on the move, for those interested in exploring real-life professional wrestling moves), and basically looks like the developers spent a few months going to New Japan shows, or at the very least watched a Kenny Omega/Kazuchika Okada match.

If he's just "generic Pokemon that says his name", then it's a huge waste. I want him to be like Lucario; capable of human speak so he could trash talk his opponents in his taunts, which again, goes back to pro wrestling and the fact that he is a Heel Pokemon.

I think what pisses people off on the notion is just how badly it will be if you screw up the character, and that the window for making things right is relatively small.

 

[TempestSurge]

Incineroar isn’t really a safe pick though. Ken, sure, as he’s the original echo fighter. But for months and months, Decidueye was the “safe pick” for a Pokemon rep.

I’m not sure why anybody is still saying Verge is just getting lucky. It’s pretty obvious he has some degree of insider information.

I think Incineroar picked up traction after Verge came out and said how the new gen 7 mon wasn't Decidueye, Lycanroc, or Mimikyu which of course were some of the most popular speculated choices at the time.

The thing about leaks is it really does suck the fun out of speculation, I was actually hoping this smash cycle there wouldn't be any 'Gematsu' level of leaks but this is in the same vein. I'm so glad for the stage thing coming out, it opens the door for more speculation of other characters again instead of chanting the same ones that Verge leaked.

 

[Ypsen]

If this IS a mistake, won't Nintendo have to correct it pretty quickly?

I'll be surprised if they do. Games editors don't pay much attention on minor mistake done by magazine (or magazines at all, besides interviews). They do when the misinformation get viral and cause trouble and bad reputation to their games, which won't be the case here.

I'll repeat myself, but, you all are giving too much credits and attention to a magazine. Famous or not, it's a magazine. If the info were serious, there should be an interview to introduce the news. I'm pretty sure that this "108 stages" is an interpretation of the author of the page based on the missing slot theory. No wonder they put the incomplete(?) stage roster on the same page.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I'm so happy about the 108 stages reveal (not that I believed 103 was final anyway), now let's forget about the box theory because it's absolute nonsense as well.
With that out of the way the future looks bright for our beloved champions.

 

[Metocles]

Well, I called it with the stage thing and I feel pretty gratified. I even said before, if the Smash team were strapped, I could see 10 stages being made, but 4? Do you have a bridge to sell me next?

I'll make my predictions on the stages for the new total which would be 5 more.

I don't think that Monster Hunter stage is one of them. It would be an incredibly boring walk-off stage and in order to make it interesting, you'd probably need to fill it up with Monsters from the series. I think Rathalos is the limits of what we're getting from MH. If we did get more than that, like an actual Monster Hunter as a playable character obviously that changes things a bit. Then that stage would probably get an overhaul to be its playable version, I just don't predict it.

I really think one of the stages is a new Donkey Kong stage, and one that is inspired by the DKC entries like Gangplank Galleon or another notable location. I realize that it might be too similar to Pirate Ship from Windwaker's stage but if you look at the DK stages, we have Kongo Jungle, Kongo Falls and Jungle Japes with a few cuts - I can't remember the names of the stages but there was a vertical auto-scroller and then a stage that switched from background-foreground. With such limited scenery and the cuts, and with the inclusion of K. Rool and my personal belief in Dixie, I'd be surprised if DK didn't get a new stage.

I'm going to predict no new Metroid stages - right now we have a nice stage total for the series, it's just hard imagining more - Brinstar, Brinstar Depths, Norfair and Frigate Orpheon. That being said, I wouldn't be ridiculously surprised if they brought back Pyrosphere, just perplexed at this stage in the game unless it's a really neat reworked stage idea.

Actually for the most part, many of the characters have plenty of stage representation as it is, even F-Zero. I am not expecting to have the other Mute City back unlike some others because we have 3 stages already in the total reported. Actually, I agree with @JDogindy since those kinds of stages like Pokefloats now feel like DLC as stages that the development team couldn't quite complete on time.

For the other four stages:

2. Golden Sun stage (probably Venus Lighthouse). Isaac is primed and ready to go because he brings something most of the others don't or can't - it's a new series to smash. In modern smash, if you get in the base game, you get a stage too.

3. Alolan Stage. This one I'm hesitant on because Alola was THAT forgettable. I think if any stage is made, maybe they do one that involves fighting in Ultra Space? Seriously, most of the locales on the islands themselves are nothing to write home about which is difficult to do considering it's based on Hawaii. But, I do think we get a Pokemon rep and Alola is basically the last huge Nintendo game that we haven't seen a new stage for (Splatoon, Zelda, Mario).

4. Geno stage. I have never played his games but I'm sure there's some kind of location they can make into a stage. I do think he'll be in this because if they were capable of getting a costume, they can surely get the puppet himself.

5. WTF stage. Imagine if Sakurai keeps the very last stage in the base game from us and he makes this stage into an homage to Smash in general. I don't necessarily think this will happen for real, but I'm very undecided as to what a 5th stage would be. Rhythm Heaven? A stage for Sakurai's retro rep? I'll leave this one in a half blank state.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

WOW people are unrionically pushing that 108 is a typo. That's pathetic. The Boxists are still obnoxious. Hopefully we'll get info soon enough to bury that too

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'd be a bit pissed if Sakurai was planning DLC before release.

Sakurai doesn't plan DLC until after the base game is done, so I wouldn't worry about that. I respect that approach highly, in an age of games that are clearly unfinished or have already-finished DLC locked away in files.

WOW people are unrionically pushing that 108 is a typo. That's pathetic. The Boxists are still obnoxious. Hopefully we'll get info soon enough to bury that too

In the meantime, something that's actually positive is gaining traction.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...atient_the_chance_to_play_smash_bros_ultimate

Even if he will never know about the DLC, just getting to play the game would mean all the world to him.

 

[Confirmation]

I'll be surprised if they do. Games editors don't pay much attention on minor mistake done by magazine (or magazines at all, besides interviews). They do when the misinformation get viral and cause trouble and bad reputation to their games, which won't be the case here.

I'll repeat myself, but, you all are giving too much credits and attention to a magazine. Famous or not, it's a magazine. If the info were serious, there should be an interview to introduce the news. I'm pretty sure that this "108 stages" is an interpretation of the author of the page based on the missing slot theory. No wonder they put the incomplete(?) stage roster on the same page.

While it's possible for a misinterpretation or false info, I don't believe this is the first time Corocoro has had insider Smash info and presented it this way without an interview, and from what I remember their Pokemon info (Corocoro is the biggest source of info for Pokemon before a new generation releases) has always been flawless, and that stuff has always been extremely serious to rabid fans.

If nobody will step up to correct the mistake as you've said, then we just have to wait until new Smash Directs to prove anything. I feel like either way that 108 stages is in "true until proven false" territory, though.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I really really doubt we will get stages for established series or it would have already been announced along their character reveal. K.Rool didn't get any stage and even if Dixie drops as an Echo / clone I doubt she'll get a stage since non of the echoes and not even Isabelle got one.

My guess for the 5 remaining :

Either :
- 2 returning stages (Pokefloat / Pac maze)
- Golden sun
- Pokemon Gen 7
- Rhythm heaven

Or (if no returning stages) :
- Golden sun
- Pok Gen 7
- Rhythm heaven
- Geno / Skull kid
- Monster hunter

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

Sakurai doesn't plan DLC until after the base game is done, so I wouldn't worry about that. I respect that approach highly, in an age of games that are clearly unfinished or have already-finished DLC locked away in files.



In the meantime, something that's actually positive is gaining traction.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...atient_the_chance_to_play_smash_bros_ultimate

Even if he will never know about the DLC, just getting to play the game would mean all the world to him.

Nintendo could look less like of a cold, faceless, detatched corporation for just a few minutes if they let this guy play. But I got the feeling they'd maintain that demeanor.

 

[Q-Long]

Dorb silly, not Dork.
It's this:
View attachment 164579

Cute!!!

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

PushDustIn highlighted a GameFAQS post on Twitter that pointed out 108 is a number with cultural significance in Japan; at buddist temples in Japan, a bell is tolled 108 times to signify the new year. Well, this is (basically) the 20th anniversary of Smash and is coming out at the end of the year. Thoughts?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

PushDustIn highlighted a GameFAQS post on Twitter that pointed out 108 is a number with cultural significance in Japan; at buddist temples in Japan, a bell is tolled 108 times to signify the new year. Well, this is (basically) the 20th anniversary of Smash and is coming out at the end of the year. Thoughts?

Yeah, I thought about how significant 108 is as a number, though it makes sense, I won't put much stock on it. This might be subject to change.

If CoroCoro made a lucky guess, cool, but until then nothing's certain.

 

[Q-Long]

I hope Mute City is back, the GX stage is meh. Should have went with Aeropolis.

PushDustIn highlighted a GameFAQS post on Twitter that pointed out 108 is a number with cultural significance in Japan; at buddist temples in Japan, a bell is tolled 108 times to signify the new year. Well, this is (basically) the 20th anniversary of Smash and is coming out at the end of the year. Thoughts?

I can definitely see this being the case. Also the release is on Iwata's Bday too

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

I hope Mute City is back, the GX stage is meh. Should have went with Aeropolis.


I can definitely see this being the case. Also the release is on Iwata's Bday too

Oh, wow. What a tribute to such an amazing man. I hope he's smiling in whatever he believed in for an afterlife at just how amazingly his legacy is doing right now.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

Just watched Push's video on this and the box art theory and the CoroCoro scans. He's still a boxist and thinks 108 is a typo... There's a difference between hyping responsibly and believing we're only getting 6 unique characters. That'd be slightly less than half Sakurai's average additions to smash, and we know the lengths that man goes to to add characters. I just don't buy it until It's confirmed by Nintendo themselves

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Just watched Push's video on this and the box art theory and the CoroCoro scans. He's still a boxist and thinks 108 is a typo... There's a difference between hyping responsibly and believing we're only getting 6 unique characters. That'd be slightly less than half Sakurai's average additions to smash, and we know the lengths that man goes to to add characters. I just don't buy it until It's confirmed by Nintendo themselves

So wait, he believes that the CoroCoro maginzine did a typo, but not the box made by a marketing team who knows nothing of the final roster?

Where is Push's priorities, exactly?

 

[Confirmation]

So wait, he believes that the CoroCoro maginzine did a typo, but not the box made by a marketing team who knows nothing of the final roster?

Where is Push's priorities, exactly?

He's stated before he wants to bring down hype.

 

[iam8bit]

Meanwhile Verge went and said the remaining two characters are Ken and Incineroar and I'm sitting over here in extreme disappointment at that since that's essentially the anti-hype for final releases for me.

Did this actually happen?

I just checked his Reddit and he has posted nothing but a "Ha" in an Isabelle reveal thread in the last 2 weeks. Seems like he's keeping pretty silent lately.

something along those lines

I see that you're new, welcome to the Isaac thread! BTW, I love your avatar.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

He's stated before he wants to bring down hype.

Well, there's a difference between being a pessimist, and being contridictively negative.

Did this actually happen?

I just checked his Reddit and he has posted nothing but a "Ha" in an Isabelle reveal thread in the last 2 weeks. Seems like he's keeping pretty silent lately.

Check gamefaqs.

Either way, don't take this as a confirmation of Isaac not being in. There could always be more info.

 

[Confirmation]

Did this actually happen?

I just checked his Reddit and he has posted nothing but a "Ha" in an Isabelle reveal thread in the last 2 weeks. Seems like he's keeping pretty silent lately.


I see that you're new, welcome to the Isaac thread! BTW, I love your avatar.

Yep, he stated so on Gamefaqs. Push has a link in his Twitter.

 

[Ura]

WOW people are unrionically pushing that 108 is a typo. That's pathetic. The Boxists are still obnoxious. Hopefully we'll get info soon enough to bury that too

"Boxists"

I didn't know these people started a cult lmao.

I already mentioned this before but I think the box theory is a hunk of nothing. Given that nothing is final and a row can easily be added in for the final release.

 

[Metocles]

You could call this the Boxer Rebellion! No, but seriously the boxists are all just boxing themselves in without knowing it.

 

[Xithyl_kykorl]

You could call this the Boxer Rebellion! No, but seriously the boxists are all just boxing themselves in without knowing it.

Certainly boxing in their minds to the potential of the game at the very least. I personally just like to think of it as "between now and when the game releases, anything can happen.". Just certain things are more likely than others.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So I settled for the Silver Code for transfering Isaac's party's stats and levels over.. cause you know, I couldn't deal with the Gold Code.

And I say to hell with the Box theory. Gotta think OUT of the box, not into it.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I do really respect Push but he comes off as... Self-important sometimes?

 

[Enchess]

Edit: woops, wrong board

 

[Diddy Kong]

I do really respect Push but he comes off as... Self-important sometimes?

What did he say?

Also, I still hold hope of the "Rathalos vs RPG Hero with supicious battle formation" theory.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Join the anti-box resistance !

 

[iam8bit]

Check gamefaqs.

Either way, don't take this as a confirmation of Isaac not being in. There could always be more info.

Yeah, I noticed his GameFAQs thread until after I posted. I think he's mainly saying he doesn't know about anymore characters and that, in theory, Incineroar and Ken could be it. Which is true I supposed.

That said, it doesn't make much sense to me, from a marketing standpoint. Why reveal 5 characters on the last direct if only 3 more were left after? And why have the Smash Direct so soon? Seems weird. It would make more sense to spread out both the character reveals and Smash info in general a bit more.

I mean, surely there's another Smash Direct coming. Revealing only Ken and Incineroar after "Everyone is Here" and the last Direct would be a bummer to say the least.

Also, Vergeben didn't leak K. Rool, right? That would point to him/his sources not knowing everything about the roster.

 

[TempestSurge]

Just watched Push's video on this and the box art theory and the CoroCoro scans. He's still a boxist and thinks 108 is a typo... There's a difference between hyping responsibly and believing we're only getting 6 unique characters. That'd be slightly less than half Sakurai's average additions to smash, and we know the lengths that man goes to to add characters. I just don't buy it until It's confirmed by Nintendo themselves

Its actually really selling Sakurai short. Every smash game has only increased in the amount of newcomers and Smash 4 had the largest amount yet. I think all Sakurai was saying was to not expect as much as Smash 4. Even something like 12 newcomers 64's roster is about less than half of 4's roster.

Let's get this straight, so working on two games Sakurai can pump out 21 newcomers, but having only to focus on one, somehow it's expected that all he can muster up is the lowest amount of newcomers since the first smash game, only four new stages, one new first party franchise addition, and no other clear ballot favorites other than two of seven newcomers, despite Sakurai saying the ballot was used as a point of reference. As Xeno pointed out, this is beyond being pessimistic, it's such a negative outlook of low expectations that it's almost more of an insult to think Sakurai would churn out the bare minimum of content as if it's simply to get a quick smash game on the Switch when we know he always puts his all in every game as if it's his last.

 

[alguidrag]

In this case, I imagine very well that the author took again the very popular theory of the "missing slots", which by omitting "random" gives exactly 108 stages.

So, again, don't take that info like it has 80 or 100% chances to be true.

Well if the missing slots is true we would have 109 slot... so I think that last one we can discard, since COUNTING RANDOM in the image we have 103 +6 slots, so Yeah

 

[?!?!?!]

Not gonna lie I would be pretty bummed out if incineroar and Ken were the only two remaining characters we get. Incineroar is an OK choice, there are definitely better gen 7 choices but it's fine, but then ken is just barely an echo or even an alternate skin for ryu

Im pretty certain thay dlc is happening but I think adding Ken and incineroar as the last two fighters isn't exactly the most hype thing to end things off with before the game's launch. I do believe there are more characters (at least 2-3) that vergeben doesn't even know about

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

We can't be exactly sure what he meant by "not many newcomers", does it even include Echoes ?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

We can't be exactly sure what he meant by "not many newcomers", does it even include Echoes ?

I'm honestly think that's the case knowing Sakurai. He likes to pull us off at times.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

We can't be exactly sure what he meant by "not many newcomers", does it even include Echoes ?

I'm honestly think that's the case knowing Sakurai. He likes to pull us off at times.

It could actually almost certainly be a case of "exact words". Meaning that, the number of newcomers pales compared to the huge pile of veterans that are in here.