Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Confirmation]

Since when?

I don't think we have yet.

 

[Banjodorf]

Welp, since Isaac ain't iconic, Skull kid has a better chance getting in.

Time to go home peeps.

Whoa, whoa, strawman argument. Isaac is a completely different case, holy ****. I never said or implied *at all* that Isaac wasn't getting in because Skull Kid. Isaac had more ballot popularity than almost any character, likely. (That being said, SK being from an existing series vs. a completely new one is another different angle).

But it's unfair to say that's what I was arguing. I was in no way suggesting Isaac wasn't getting in, I was merely defending Skull Kid.

I'm on board the Isaac train full speed, and think he's *very* likely.

 

[Kalaam]

Interrestingly enough, Golden Sun games actually performed rather well worldwide. (1.76 millions, 1.22 millions and 0.81 millions. FE Awakening did 2.1 so it's not that far, for a "niche" game.)
I mean even Dark Dawn almost made a million copies *despite* the lack of marketing. If Nintendo wanted to do it correctly a new game or remake/remaster, it would probably sell very well. I'm ready to bet on a 1.5 million, easy.
Smash Bros is only what we need to make them understand.

 

[N3ON]

If you guys are using VGChartz, don't. It's unreliable.

Hmm last direct ? Am I mistaken ? Well I think he appears in great bay at least.

I don't think we have yet.

Yeah no he hasn't been seen as an AT yet. Just a stage element on Great Bay. Though I don't imagine they'll cut him.

 

[Kalaam]

Where could I find number outside of VGChartz?

 

[XenoWarriorX]

And now you're applying the arguments in favor of one character to all of them? Get outta here lol, every character who gets in does so for their own unique reasons. Skull Kid is iconic, Isaac is highly requested in the fan base. It's apples and oranges.

Whoa, whoa, strawman argument. Isaac is a completely different case, holy ****. I never said or implied *at all* that Isaac wasn't getting in because Skull Kid. Isaac had more ballot popularity than almost any character, likely. (That being said, SK being from an existing series vs. a completely new one is another different angle).

But it's unfair to say that's what I was arguing. I was in no way suggesting Isaac wasn't getting in, I was merely defending Skull Kid.

I'm on board the Isaac train full speed, and think he's *very* likely.

No, it's because of the ballot. Since that's what Sakurai is basing this roster on.
You know, I'm sorry. Clearly we are all not going to agree with each other. So about I just shut the **** up so we can stop these arguments that's are never going to end if we keep this up.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

Because a few edgy boys made some spicy Isaac jokes about the Hokkaido disaster, this whole community is getting smeared. Awesome.

 

[Gioka]

A bit of debate never killed anyone, it is fun seeing the different perspectives we have as to how they will go on choosing the characters and I wonder if that's how it goes between Sakurai and his team

 

[Solbliminal]

No, it's because of the ballot. Since that's what Sakurai is basing this roster on.
You know, I'm sorry. Clearly we are all not going to agree with each other. So about I just shut the **** up so we can stop these arguments that's are never going to end if we keep this up.

But this argument started because of claiming to know where characters place on the ballot. None of us can claim that we know the ballot even if we have results that give us a reasonable idea of what to expect. Its still not the ballot results themselves. We don't *know* how far these characters place up or down the ballot until it actually happens.

The point is that you shouldn't underestimate a character's chances because of some outsourced information. That would be like people dismissing Isaac because he is from an outdated RPG.

 

[Shin F.]

No, it's because of the ballot. Since that's what Sakurai is basing this roster on.
You know, I'm sorry. Clearly we are all not going to agree with each other. So about I just shut the **** up so we can stop these arguments that's are never going to end if we keep this up.

I apologize as well. We can stop, to get the thread back on track to Golden Sun, but in regards to the Ballot, I did say that I believed if Skull Kid was in, it probably isn't on his votes alone, but because he would represent the collective desire for a new Zelda character, just as Cloud represents the community's desire for Final Fantasy.

 

[?!?!?!]

Because a few edgy boys made some spicy Isaac jokes about the Hokkaido disaster, this whole community is getting smeared. Awesome.

Where? Do you have a link?

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

Where? Do you have a link?

I've just been seeing people mentioning that in a couple videos/podcasts and comment sections/threads. Maybe I'm over reacting..

 

[N3ON]

Where could I find number outside of VGChartz?

You'll be able to find GS1&2's performance here:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ni...ardware-sales-data-from-1983-to-present.2725/

But since it sold under 1 million, there's no real way to know just how many units Dark Dawn moved (outside Japan), Nintendo doesn't share that kind of info. The closest guess we can make, and keep in mind it's only a guess, is to use the percent of total sales the Japanese units account for in the first games to extrapolate for Dark Dawn's total performance, as we only have the Japanese figures, which are ~80k. In the past the Japanese sales accounted for about 20% of the total sales, so assuming that stayed about the same for Dark Dawn, which is only an assumption, the title moved, maybe, ~400k.

If that's at all close, it's not terrible for a niche title like GS, but it's nowhere near the performance of the first two, and it has to be less than a return on a Mario Sports game... hence the series' current status.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

I really wish there was some leak that could just fall into our laps and spark a discussion I don't care how dumb it is

 

[?!?!?!]

I've just been seeing people mentioning that in a couple videos/podcasts and comment sections/threads. Maybe I'm over reacting..

Maybe. It might just be a few insensitive people who make the edgy jokes, and a few over sensitive people that blame an entire fan base for those jokes

But anyone with common sense would know that a few people making jokes like that don't represent everyone who supports the character

 

[Gioka]

I've just been seeing people mentioning that in a couple videos/podcasts and comment sections/threads. Maybe I'm over reacting..

To be honest this seems to be happening to a lot of the bases with the delay news. For example there is a "Bandana Dee for Smash" account saying terrible things of Nintendo owing gamers something because of this but most are not supporters but detractors trying to bait and making fanbases look bad

 

[N3ON]

Where? Do you have a link?

I'd rather we not link to that.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Yeah no he hasn't been seen as an AT yet. Just a stage element on Great Bay. Though I don't imagine they'll cut him.

Oh my bad then I probably mixed things up with the many smash 4 and smash in general videos I watch. Thanks for pointing it out N3ON.

 

[?!?!?!]

I'd rather we not link to that.

Fair enough, sorry

 

[XenoWarriorX]

this is an Isaac thread anyway. So i'll ask a question.


What would you say YOU would like more in this scenario? (Not what is the most likely.)

Would like Isaac to have primarliy earth-based, where a lot of his moves are taken from his earth techniques?

Would you like for him to change Djinn on the fly? (Like Shulk does with his monado.)

Or would you like each move to represent different types of moves from his range of abilities? (Imagine how Mega man has a range of moves from all 10 of his games, and apply that to how Isaac is handled.)

 

[Solbliminal]

I honestly just want to see how Sakurai would handle Isaac in general. After seeing swordsmen characters like Robin, Shulk, Cloud, Corrin, and Link, I really don't know what to expect out of Isaac. If he manages to handle differently than all of them, yet be fun and unique, I'm down for anything.

 

[Gioka]

this is an Isaac thread anyway. So i'll ask a question.
If I had a question for you all.


What would you say YOU would like more in this scenario? (Not what is the most likely.)

Would like Isaac to have primarliy earth-based, where a lot of his moves are taken from his earth technically?

Would you like for him to change Djinn on the fly? (Like Shulk does with his monado.)

Or would you like each move to represent different types of moves from his range of abilities? (Imagine how Mega man has a range of moves from all 10 of his games, and apply that to how Isaac is handled.)

I would personally prefer different types of moves but that he also relies on earth for the strongest attacks. But at this point tbh I will take however they decide to handle it, they have done a good job with hard characters like Robin and Shulk so I have no doubt they can do Isaac justice

 

[?!?!?!]

this is an Isaac thread anyway. So i'll ask a question.
If I had a question for you all.


What would you say YOU would like more in this scenario? (Not what is the most likely.)

Would like Isaac to have primarliy earth-based, where a lot of his moves are taken from his earth technically?

Would you like for him to change Djinn on the fly? (Like Shulk does with his monado.)

Or would you like each move to represent different types of moves from his range of abilities? (Imagine how Mega man has a range of moves from all 10 of his games, and apply that to how Isaac is handled.)

I think I've said this before but I would actually prefer multiple elements incorporated into his attacks. I just think instead of being a representation of only Isaac and his earth moves, it would represent golden sun as a whole. Plus his moves would be more flashy and colorful and that's something I would like to see

 

[NoOtherPersona]

this is an Isaac thread anyway. So i'll ask a question.


What would you say YOU would like more in this scenario? (Not what is the most likely.)

Would like Isaac to have primarliy earth-based, where a lot of his moves are taken from his earth techniques?

Would you like for him to change Djinn on the fly? (Like Shulk does with his monado.)

Or would you like each move to represent different types of moves from his range of abilities? (Imagine how Mega man has a range of moves from all 10 of his games, and apply that to how Isaac is handled.)

I'd prefer if he used the Djinn show people what golden sun is all about

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I don't want the same gimmick as Shulk personally. It's great on paper but rather complex to use. I mean I never had the patience to learn how to use Shulk efficiently so ...

 

[Shin F.]

this is an Isaac thread anyway. So i'll ask a question.


What would you say YOU would like more in this scenario? (Not what is the most likely.)

Would like Isaac to have primarliy earth-based, where a lot of his moves are taken from his earth techniques?

Would you like for him to change Djinn on the fly? (Like Shulk does with his monado.)

Or would you like each move to represent different types of moves from his range of abilities? (Imagine how Mega man has a range of moves from all 10 of his games, and apply that to how Isaac is handled.)

I'd most like him to be Earth-based I think, but changing Djinn could be incredibly interesting as well. I wouldn't really want him to have multiple elements unless it was a part of the Djinn Change mechanic.

 

[Kalaam]

I'm kinda split for moveset.
On one hand I feel it's be truer to the character to be earth/plant based (or earth for Isaac and plants for Echo Felix).
On the second hand i'd love to see him use a mix of elements. Maybe it could be done with the moveset personnalisation ? Has the same function, but a bit different. Like changing Quake which send a "wave" of earth in front of you to "Eruption" which has less range but higher hitbox.

I'd love the Djinns to be on the Smash Attacks, kinda like Robin and the Levin sword, and having it affecting his stats/powers. Having a neutral that changes his djinns to switch to different psynergy would be a bit too gimmicky maybe, or could be considered OP since he'd basically have 9 moves instead of 4.

 

[Shin F.]

I was playing Golden Sun the other day, and had the thought that Venus might work as a nice Up-Smash if you centered it on Isaac and maybe shortened the range. I've always imagine Flint being his Forward-Smash. It would be neat if you could use Forward-Smash to Unleash Flint, and then your Up-Smash becomes Venus, and each one is just a normal sword attack in other circumstances. Your most effective kill move would change based on the status of Flint / Venus, and how you've fought up till then.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I'm liking these responses so far.


Personally, I'm not sure which one I like more. (They all sound pretty good the more I think about each one)

Here's another interesting question. How would you want MOVE to be incorporated?

(Don't have any examples, just wanting people to throw out ideas. For instance, anything else would be better than how it was handled in Brawl.)

 

[Solbliminal]

The best I could think of for move in its entirety is set to his grab commands. Its possible he could use it in other ways. But I'd generally want a focus around his elemental attacks.

 

[GoodGrief741]

this is an Isaac thread anyway. So i'll ask a question.


What would you say YOU would like more in this scenario? (Not what is the most likely.)

Would like Isaac to have primarliy earth-based, where a lot of his moves are taken from his earth techniques?

Would you like for him to change Djinn on the fly? (Like Shulk does with his monado.)

Or would you like each move to represent different types of moves from his range of abilities? (Imagine how Mega man has a range of moves from all 10 of his games, and apply that to how Isaac is handled.)

I feel Earth-based, with big ****ing hand for flavor. I don’t want him to be gimmicky, and I don’t want them to underplay his geomancer abilities since those would make him stand out more.

Use Move for aerials, some Smash attacks and some throws (but the grab has to be vines though).

 

[Shin F.]

I'm liking these responses so far.


Personally, I'm not sure which one I like more. (They all sound pretty good the more I think about each one)

Here's another interesting question. How would you want MOVE to be incorporated?

(Don't have any examples, just wanting people to throw out ideas. For instance, anything else would be better than how it was handled in Brawl.)

I'm a fan of how SSF2 handled it, personally. Side special with multiple utilities based on the direction you press. Even more than that, though, I really want it to be his grab / throws.

 

[Kalaam]

Shin's idea is cool but that'd make Isaac very predictable. You'd have to "waste" a forward smash to have an upsmash ready and vice-versa.
I'd rather have Flint as forward smash, Bane as up smash, Ground as down smash (maybe with burying properties).
And for Felix, Echo as forward (hits twice but less damage per hit), Petra for down and maybe Steel for up ?

Also totally unrelated but did you guy see this fanart ? I love when even a fake leak gives birth to cool stuff like this:

 

[TempestSurge]

this is an Isaac thread anyway. So i'll ask a question.


What would you say YOU would like more in this scenario? (Not what is the most likely.)

Would like Isaac to have primarliy earth-based, where a lot of his moves are taken from his earth techniques?

Would you like for him to change Djinn on the fly? (Like Shulk does with his monado.)

Or would you like each move to represent different types of moves from his range of abilities? (Imagine how Mega man has a range of moves from all 10 of his games, and apply that to how Isaac is handled.)

I'm more partial to him having an earth based move set although I wouldn't mind Djinn's being incorporated in some way either. I just wouldn't particularly like something so overly gimmick-y for the sake of it. I had interest in Shulk and played him for a bit before going, I quit. Robin was the character in 4 I was most hyped for and I still dropped him. I could see my lazy self not wanting to take the time to learn Isaac. But hey at least he'd be in the game lol.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

Shin's idea is cool but that'd make Isaac very predictable. You'd have to "waste" a forward smash to have an upsmash ready and vice-versa.
I'd rather have Flint as forward smash, Bane as up smash, Ground as down smash (maybe with burying properties).
And for Felix, Echo as forward (hits twice but less damage per hit), Petra for down and maybe Steel for up ?

Also totally unrelated but did you guy see this fanart ? I love when even a fake leak gives birth to cool stuff like this:

It's beautiful
I'd imagine this would be Isaac after the first two games but before the third game :3

 

[Kalaam]

I feel you Tempest, Robin is super complex to play, lots of micro management and all. Like dodgegrab for catching books etc. That's a pain xD

Edit: Yeah SuperNin', I think that'd be nice if the design in game was along those lines, an Isaac we did not see before but feels familiar. If he is in.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I was playing Golden Sun the other day, and had the thought that Venus might work as a nice Up-Smash if you centered it on Isaac and maybe shortened the range. I've always imagine Flint being his Forward-Smash. It would be neat if you could use Forward-Smash to Unleash Flint, and then your Up-Smash becomes Venus, and each one is just a normal sword attack in other circumstances. Your most effective kill move would change based on the status of Flint / Venus, and how you've fought up till then.

That is a pretty neat idea. But that does sound like kind of a complicated fighter. xD.

The best I could think of for move in its entirety is set to his grab commands. Its possible he could use it in other ways. But I'd generally want a focus around his elemental attacks.

I was thinking grabs too. Obviously.

But I wonder how Sakurai would balence it out. Melee Marth's grab range is ridiculous, so I want to imagine how the competitive community reacts to it.
"Melee Marth 2.0"

 

[Solbliminal]

But I wonder how Sakurai would balence it out. Melee Marth's grab range Ian ridiculous, so I want to imagine how the competitive community reacts to it.
"Melee Marth 2.0"

That one is simple. Yes he has range, but his grab space is gaped. He can grab from a distance, but not up close. Perfect spacing would likely be required to make the best of his grabs.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

Also i think SSF2 does a perfect job of using move

 

[Kalaam]

But I wonder how Sakurai would balence it out. Melee Marth's grab range is ridiculous, so I want to imagine how the competitive community reacts to it.
"Melee Marth 2.0"

Then people would compare him to FE characters even more xD

I think his grabs could be psynergy hands anyway, and change depending on the throw direction. Force could be for back throw, Move for forward throw, lift for Up throw and Pound for down throw.