Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Deleted member]

According to VGChartz Golden Sun only do 380k in Europe. Is the region where GS had less sales compared to the 900k in USA and the 400k in Japan.
Is funny that there is where Golden Sun is most remembered. And spanish people themselves think they have bad taste

Though, and this is just me bull****ting here, but doesn't Nintendo stick to Western Europe?

 

[Banjodorf]

Incenroar I understand...

But skull kid? Someone who wasn't popular during the Ballot era? Idk. I feel like if Skull Kid was chosen over the tons of other picks who got tons of votes, it would seem a bit unfair.

(We've already established that Pokémon gets special treatment, but I doubt they'll make an exception for Zelda.)

I really don't think so. Skull Kid wouldn't really turn any heads, (in a negative sense) except maybe among people who assume the ballot is the end-all-be-all. Skull Kid has a lot of timing in his favor; Operation Moonfall, a big fan initiative to get MM3D made that even got Reggie's attention, was going strong, and he was a *very* popular character suggestion (even the top 2 iirc) for Project M, so the name was floating around during a relevant time period.

In addition, like I said, he's a recognizable face that's always been "popular" in greater video game circles as a Smash suggestion. Definitely the biggest additional contender Zelda has, at the very least. I really think the iconicity of the character and mask is the key here though.

 

[Solbliminal]

That still leaves a lot of starters, legendaries, promoted and odd balls ones to choose from though.

Not when you apply context. We're currently on the 7th Gen right? That means it will likely be the focus. Just based on that knowledge I can deduct these Pokemon choices:

-Incineroar (Promoted Starter)
-Decidueye (Popular Starter)
-Lycanroc (Popular Promoted)
-Zeraora (Recent Lucario Like Pokemon, Legendary, Potential Echo)
-Buzzwole (Popular Ultra Beast, Representative to Promote Ultra Beasts)

There is also potential in 8th Gen being promoted here if it is shown off in this upcoming direct. Otherwise I think a ballot pick or Gen 7 rep is an inevitable lock.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Don't forget that unlike Isaac Skull kid could end up being a Boss.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I really don't think so. Skull Kid wouldn't really turn any heads, (in a negative sense) except maybe among people who assume the ballot is the end-all-be-all. Skull Kid has a lot of timing in his favor; Operation Moonfall, a big fan initiative to get MM3D made that even got Reggie's attention, was going strong, and he was a *very* popular character suggestion (even the top 2 iirc) for Project M, so the name was floating around during a relevant time period.

In addition, like I said, he's a recognizable face that's always been "popular" in greater video game circles as a Smash suggestion. Definitely the biggest additional contender Zelda has, at the very least. I really think the iconicity of the character and mask is the key here though.

...project m and Smash 4 (DLC) ballot are completely different contexts.


Btw, popularity is other circles, yet not popular in other circles are a thing. Circles don't cross a lot of the time. That's just how reality works.

And yeah, he's popular now. But so is Rex...Spring Man...

I don't get how this "raises" his chances like you say.

 

[Pyzlnar]

I wouldn't mind Skull Kid being in the game as a character or as a boss.
I was already bummed when they deconfirmed my 3rd most wanted character. (Midna)

But yeah as far as popularity goes, Skull Kid really wasn't there as much. I'm gonna be gladly surprised if he ends up being a playable character though.

 

[Shin F.]

...project m and Smash 4 (DLC) ballot are completely different contexts.


Btw, popularity is other circles, yet not popular in other circles are a thing. Circles don't cross a lot of the time. That's just how reality works.

And yeah, he's popular now. But so is Rex...Spring Man...

I don't get how this "raises" his chances like you say.

I think the point with bringing up Project M is to show that being popular isn't a recent thing for Skull Kid. He's always been a request for Smash since Melee. Not as much as Ridley, K Rool, Geno or Isaac, but he never went away, he just got more competition over the years for Zelda reps with characters like Midna and Ghirahim.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I think the point with bringing up Project M is to show that being popular isn't a recent thing for Skull Kid. He's always been a request for Smash since Melee. Not as much as Geno or Isaac, but he never went away, he just got more competition over the years for Zelda reps with characters like Midna and Ghirahim.

Yeah, he's been a request. I won't deny that.

What I will deny is that Sakurai will make an exception for him since he wasn't popular in the ballot.

(And had competition with lots of other choices that Sakurai could include.)

 

[Solbliminal]

...project m and Smash 4 (DLC) ballot are completely different contexts.


Btw, popularity is other circles, yet not popular in other circles are a thing. Circles don't cross a lot of the time. That's just how reality works.

And yeah, he's popular now. But so is Rex...Spring Man...

I don't get how this "raises" his chances like you say.

They are still Smash. And in the context of Smash, it can transition from one game to another. People who wanted K. Rool, Geno, Banjo, and so on, wanted those characters since Melee. Skull Kid is very easily the same case. Majora's Mask is a popular game, and its very easy to see why Skull Kid would be popular when the Zelda series as a whole only really has represented Link (Toon and Young by extension), Ganondorf, Sheik and Zelda. I can confidently say people want another Zelda rep that isn't another Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf.

 

[KMDP]

I visited the general discussion chat for the first time in a month and honestly, it surprises me how many people there are suddenly calling Isaac within the top contenders and how he wouldn't be a surprising reveal, given that just after E3, whenever you mentioned Isaac in that thread, you'd be a clear minority and people would often shoot down the suggestion.

I swear though, if Isaac gets revealed and everyone goes revisionist on us about how he was "obviously getting into the game" I might crack.

Hahahahaha....

Billy, you know that's going to happen.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

They are still Smash. And in the context of Smash, it can transition from one game to another. People who wanted K. Rool, Geno, Banjo, and so on, wanted those characters since Melee. Skull Kid is very easily the same case. Majora's Mask is a popular game, and its very easy to see why Skull Kid would be popular when the Zelda series as a whole only really has represented Link (Toon and Young by extension), Ganondorf, Sheik and Zelda. I can confidently say people want another Zelda rep that isn't another Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf.

Yet one wasn't in Project M. While one was an assist trophy in 4.

Context matters.

 

[Shin F.]

Yeah, he's been a request. I won't deny that.

What I will deny is that Sakurai will make an exception for him since he wasn't popular in the ballot.

(And had competition with lots of other choices that Sakurai could include.)

I will point out that while we have an idea of how the Ballot looks, we actually don't know for sure exactly how it appears. And don't forget what happened with Cloud; Sakurai saw that there was huge demand for a Final Fantasy character, and so he chose the most popular one. Who's to say the same isn't going to happen with Zelda? Because like Solbliminal said, people want a non-Link/Zelda/Ganon character from the series. And if you were going to pick one, it's hard to choose one more iconic to gaming at large than Skull Kid.

It's possible Sakurai looked and saw the tons of votes for Midna, and Ghirahim, and Skull Kid, and Tingle, and Impa, and whoever else, saw that Zelda needed a Newcomer, and chose to bring back the one that's in the highest demand.

 

[JaidynReiman]

There is also potential in 8th Gen being promoted here if it is shown off in this upcoming direct.

We're not getting news on Gen 8 until Spring. That's how Pokemon news pretty much always goes. It's insanity to suggest there's even a chance of seeing Gen 8 before the end of the year, let alone before Let's Go even comes out. It's NOT happening.

I will point out that while we have an idea of how the Ballot looks, we actually don't know for sure exactly how it appears. And don't forget what happened with Cloud; Sakurai saw that there was huge demand for a Final Fantasy character, and so he chose the most popular one. Who's to say the same isn't going to happen with Zelda? Because like Solbliminal said, people want a non-Link/Zelda/Ganon character from the series. And if you were going to pick one, it's hard to choose one more iconic to gaming at large than Skull Kid.

Rewriting history at it's finest. You're vastly buffing up Skull Kid. He's nothing in the grand scheme of things. Majora's Mask itself is what's iconic about the game, not Skull Kid, and even then the most recognizable aspect is the Moon. Nintendo didn't even consider him notable enough to include Hyrule Warriors first batch of Majora's Mask content (yes they did EVENTUALLY include him, but Midna had two versions before that happened).

If we're looking at any random one-off character who is popular I guarantee it would have been Midna. The Moon is more iconic and recognized than Skull Kid.

 

[Solbliminal]

Yet one wasn't in Project M. While one was an assist trophy in 4.

Context matters.

Ridley wasn't in Project M either, despite being #2 most requested on our boards. So what is your point?

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I will point out that while we have an idea of how the Ballot looks, we actually don't know for sure exactly how it appears. And don't forget what happened with Cloud; Sakurai saw that there was huge demand for a Final Fantasy character, and so he chose the most popular one. Who's to say the same isn't going to happen with Zelda? Because like Solbliminal said, people want a non-Link/Zelda/Ganon character from the series. And if you were going to pick one, it's hard to choose one more iconic to gaming at large than Skull Kid.

It's possible Sakurai looked and saw the tons of votes for Midna, and Ghirahim, and Skull Kid, and Tingle, and Impa, and whoever else, saw that Zelda needed a Newcomer, and chose to bring back the one that's in the highest demand.

Then the highest in demand would be midna.

Ridley wasn't in Project M either, despite being #2 most requested on our boards. So what is your point?

The fans were also pissed at the response of Ridley being "TOO BIG".

And Ridley was present and popular in the polls. What's YOUR point?

 

[Solbliminal]

We're not getting news on Gen 8 until Spring. That's how Pokemon news pretty much always goes. It's insanity to suggest there's even a chance of seeing Gen 8 before the end of the year, let alone before Let's Go even comes out. It's NOT happening.

I knew it was a stretch honestly. But I had to mention it anyways just based on how Greninja was added to Sakurai's project plan during Smash Wii U's development cycle, despite Gen 6 not even being out during that time.

 

[Shin F.]

Then the highest in demand would be midna.

I'll correct my statement then.

The most iconic and widely-recognizable from among those characters. (It's Skull Kid, by the way)

 

[Gioka]

According to VGChartz Golden Sun only do 380k in Europe. Is the region where GS had less sales compared to the 900k in USA and the 400k in Japan.
Is funny that there is where Golden Sun is most remembered. And spanish people themselves think they have bad taste

A thing with USA sales is that usually it has in it all of Latin America sales (except for Brazil I think) because we don't have a Nintendo division for our part of the continent and as stated above, aside from Europe, Latin America is also very fond on GS (heck the difference between Isaac and Banjo in the trends above is of like 10 points). Perhaps this is because for a lot of us latins, GS was our first door to JRPG

 

[Solbliminal]

The fans were also pissed at the response of Ridley being "TOO BIG".

And Ridley was present and popular in the polls. What's YOUR point?

My point is that he is in the game now. Currently present and proving my point. lol

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I'll correct my statement then.

The most iconic and widely-recognizable from among those characters. (It's Skull Kid, by the way)

I don't think that's how Sakurai's planning process works when it comes to franchises that are not Pokémon.

Clearly, a lot of these Assist trophies would be characters already by that type of logic.

My point is that he is in the game now. Currently present and proving my point. lol

Ignoring the part where Ridley was at least present during the ballot, sure.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

I like the Skull kid, but he's stealing my Vaati's spot. And that my friend is a crime !

 

[Shin F.]

Rewriting history at it's finest. You're vastly buffing up Skull Kid. He's nothing in the grand scheme of things. Majora's Mask itself is what's iconic about the game, not Skull Kid, and even then the most recognizable aspect is the Moon. Nintendo didn't even consider him notable enough to include Hyrule Warriors first batch of Majora's Mask content (yes they did EVENTUALLY include him, but Midna had two versions before that happened).

If we're looking at any random one-off character who is popular I guarantee it would have been Midna. The Moon is more iconic and recognized than Skull Kid.

Please, don't try to pretend that Skull Kid, the Mask, and the Moon aren't inherently connected, or that you could have Majora without him. Midna's popular, but compare her to the Mask, and I doubt she comes out on top. And if you're going to have the mask, you're going have the mask-wearer.

Dude, Nintendo didn't even make Hyrule Warriors. Things from that game hardly mean squat.

Clearly, a lot of these Assist trophies would be characters already by that type of logic.

Uhhh... name a few? Cause I like Takamaru and all, but iconic to the larger gaming community he is not.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'll correct my statement then.

The most iconic and widely-recognizable from among those characters. (It's Skull Kid, by the way)

So I checked your original post and this is blatantly false. Tingle and Midna are both more recognizable. This is rewriting history at it's finest.

Twilight Princess is THE best selling game in the series prior to BotW. Majora's Mask between both versions (N64 and 3DS) has about 3m sales less than the original release of Twilight Princess. In terms of recognizability I'd argue that sales are a strong determining factor there.


And Tingle has appeared in numerous Zelda games so of course he's far more recognizable. Meanwhile Majora's Mask was seen as a black sheep by general population because they didn't like the countdown mechanic for the game. Not a single one of your arguments add up to facts.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Tingle has been confirmed AT though so he's out of the picture. (thank god)

 

[Solbliminal]

Ignoring the part where Ridley was at least present during the ballot, sure.

Since when did we know the ballot results?

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Please, don't try to pretend that Skull Kid, the Mask, and the Moon aren't inherently connected, or that you could have Majora without him. Midna's popular, but compare her to the Mask, and I doubt she comes out on top. And if you're going to have the mask, you're going have the mask-wearer.

Dude, Nintendo didn't even make Hyrule Warriors. Things from that game hardly mean squat.

Uhhh... name a few? Cause I like Takamaru and all, but iconic to the larger gaming community he is not.

Lyn. Zero. Knuckles. Shovel Knight. Alucard. (Since Sympathy of the Night is the most popular Castlevania game.) and ESPICALLY Bomberman.

Since when did we know the ballot results?

Since we based somebody of the info on the Exit polls back during the ballot.
The same ballot we basing ISAAC'S possibility on.

 

[Gioka]

Regarding Skull Kid... Yeah, we know the ballot is important and that it is being taken into account but I am pretty sure Sakurai interprets the results not only takes them in as they were. Sakurai knew Skull Kid was popular because when his AT was shown for Smash 4 he clearly let people know he was an AT and not a playable character, so he knew. And taking into account only Smash 4 context just doesn't seem fair at all, K. Rook got a Mii costume, Ridley was still too big and left as a stage hazard/boss. Like yes, I do think Skull Kid's votes got hindered as he was already officially deconfirmed for Smash 4, but we don't know how many votes he earned at the end, besides of what has already been mentioned, Sakurai could have chosen one new Zelda rep to please all who voted for a Zelda newcomer independently of who. Majora's Mask is a very popular Zelda game, Skull Kid and Majora's are dearly remembered by people and their remake hit just on perfect time for being considered into the roster. Maybe they are also picking him (if they did) to appeal Zelda fans that aren't in the Smash circle yet, for example

 

[JaidynReiman]

Please, don't try to pretend that Skull Kid, the Mask, and the Moon aren't inherently connected, or that you could have Majora without him. Midna's popular, but compare her to the Mask, and I doubt she comes out on top. And if you're going to have the mask, you're going have the mask-wearer.

The mask is the final boss, Skull Kid isn't. Skull Kid isn't intrinsically tied to the mask because he appears in three games, the mask only appears in one. And even then Midna is still more recognizable being in a far more popular game.

As for HW Tecmo Koei worked closely with Nintendo to decide how to handle the game.

Lyn. Zero. Knuckles. Shovel Knight. Alucard. (Since Sympathy of the Night is the most popular Castlevania game.) and ESPICALLY Bomberman.

In terms of third parties not everyone can get in. Lyn is definitely one of the stronger candidates being the second most popular character in the series after Ike.

 

[Sudz]

In terms of recognizability I'd argue that sales are a strong determining factor there.

Bet. Majora's Mask is objectively one of the most recognizable things to come from TLoZ in its history. Go literally anywhere that sells "gamer merch" and that mask will 100% be somewhere. Anecdotal, but literally yesterday a dude that sits next to me in my class was wearing a Majora's mask WATCH. I cannot say the same for any of the other characters you've mentioned.

As far as symbolism and popularity goes, you get:

Triforce
Hylian Crest
Majora's Mask

 

[Shin F.]

So I checked your original post and this is blatantly false. Tingle and Midna are both more recognizable. This is rewriting history at it's finest.

Twilight Princess is THE best selling game in the series prior to BotW. Majora's Mask between both versions (N64 and 3DS) has about 3m sales less than the original release of Twilight Princess. In terms of recognizability I'd argue that sales are a strong determining factor there.

And Tingle has appeared in numerous Zelda games so of course he's far more recognizable. Meanwhile Majora's Mask was seen as a black sheep by general population because they didn't like the countdown mechanic for the game. Not a single one of your arguments add up to facts.

Fair enough in regards to Tingle, but sales aren't even close to the end-all when it comes to popularity among individual characters.

Lyn. Zero. Knuckles. Shovel Knight. Alucard. (Since Sympathy of the Night is the most popular Castlevania game.) and ESPICALLY Bomberman.

Let's see... oversaturated series, guest series, guest series, guest series, guest series, guest series. Try again?

Bet. Majora's Mask is objectively one of the most recognizable things to come from TLoZ in its history. Go literally anywhere that sells "gamer merch" and that mask will 100% be somewhere. Anecdotal, but literally yesterday a dude that sits next to me in my class was wearing a Majora's mask WATCH. I cannot say the same for any of the other characters you've mentioned.

As far as symbolism and popularity goes, you get:

Triforce
Hylian Crest
Majora's Mask

Pretty much this.

Skull Kid isn't intrinsically tied to the mask because he appears in three games, the mask only appears in one.

Pull the other one. 99% of the game, he has that mask on, and he's only a minor character in the others. The association is too strong to ignore. Or are you going to tell me the Master Sword isn't associated with Link since it's not glued to his hand from the beginning and he doesn't get it in Four Swords / FSA?

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Fair enough in regards to Tingle, but sales aren't even close to the end-all when it comes to popularity among individual characters.

Let's see... oversaturated series, guest series, guest series, guest series, guest series, guest series. Try again?

But your whole argument is that Skull Kid is iconic...so are the rest of these characters.

 

[N3ON]

Tingle has been confirmed AT though so he's out of the picture. (thank god)

Since when?

 

[Shin F.]

But your whole argument is that Skull Kid is iconic...so are the rest of these characters.

Taking one aspect of the argument while ignoring the others? Lol

He's not just iconic, he's an iconic character from a highly popular Nintendo series from which people want another character. There's a lot more to the argument in his favor than any one aspect.

 

[Banjodorf]

But your whole argument is that Skull Kid is iconic...so are the rest of these characters.

Tingle might be "iconic", but he's also heavily divisive in the west.

I wouldn't call Midna iconic.

Again, we can argue "revisionism" from a pedastal like some are doing all we want, but Majora's Mask is a way more important piece of Zelda history than either of them. That's not even bias. It's on merch, it's in memes. When's the last time Midna got a full CG fan animation? (Two, actually.)

People can **** on the idea all they want, but the potential reasonings for the choice are all over.

 

[alguidrag]

We have a date for the Direct? I saw some people speaking about famitsu something, there is a date for that too?

 

[Banjodorf]

We have a date for the Direct? I saw some people speaking about famitsu something, there is a date for that too?

I keep *hearing* its supposed to hit stands as early as Tuesday, so we could be getting scans then.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Since when?

Hmm last direct ? Am I mistaken ? Well I think he appears in great bay at least.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Tingle might be "iconic", but he's also heavily divisive in the west.

I wouldn't call Midna iconic.

Again, we can argue "revisionism" from a pedastal like some are doing all we want, but Majora's Mask is a way more important piece of Zelda history than either of them. That's not even bias. It's on merch, it's in memes. When's the last time Midna got a full CG fan animation? (Two, actually.)

People can **** on the idea all they want, but the potential reasonings for the choice are all over.

Welp, since Isaac ain't iconic, Skull kid has a better chance getting in.

Time to go home peeps.

 

[Deleted member]

Even though it's still Saturday, I'd keep an eye out because you just know people will start "leaking" anything from those pages.

 

[Shin F.]

Welp, since Isaac ain't iconic, Skull kid has a better chance getting in.

Time to go home peeps.

And now you're applying the arguments in favor of one character to all of them? Get outta here lol, every character who gets in does so for their own unique reasons. Skull Kid is iconic, Isaac is highly requested in the fan base. It's apples and oranges.