Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[BillyBat]

If Felix ended up in the game as an echo of Isaac I could see it being a Simon/Richter situation where they borrow moves from each other. There are some abilities that are unique to one of them. (such as Felixs ability to turn into sand)

Wouldn't it be cool if his forward/backward-roll dodge has him turning into sand to avoid the hit.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

If Felix ended up in the game as an echo of Isaac I could see it being a Simon/Richter situation where they borrow moves from each other. There are some abilities that are unique to one of them. (such as Felixs ability to turn into sand)

I'm thinking that Isaac would borrow moves off Felix similar to how Simon borrowed some of Richter's moves

 

[pholtos]

Last time I played Golden sun was a No Summons/Djinn Usage, No Offensive Psynergy run of the original.
Should probably try another gimmick run, like psynergy only. That'd be a challenge, especially in the beginning.
Maybe try a no Djinns run, too.

 

[alguidrag]

If Felix ended up in the game as an echo of Isaac I could see it being a Simon/Richter situation where they borrow moves from each other. There are some abilities that are unique to one of them. (such as Felixs ability to turn into sand)

His roll is sand for sure

Sorry for the double post but

Smash website is out for me... its just me or they're doing something there?

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Sorry for the double post but

Smash website is out for me... its just me or they're doing something there?

the websites fine nothing new it might be you

 

[NessAtc.]

This entire thread is simultaneously the best and worst thing I've seen all week.
https://boards.fireden.net/v/search/text/Bayonetta/type/op/page/1/

One leak literally lists something like 48 new playable characters, and Bayonetta getting buffed

Wow rip I guess people don't think we're a most wanted character even though we're at the top of nearly every fanpoll

 

[alguidrag]

Wow rip I guess people don't think we're a most wanted character even though we're at the top of nearly every fanpoll

People never remember the between 5~10 if he is not the favorite of him

the websites fine nothing new it might be you

ok, thanks maybe is my internet....

 

[Jedisupersonic]

If Felix ended up in the game as an echo of Isaac I could see it being a Simon/Richter situation where they borrow moves from each other. There are some abilities that are unique to one of them. (such as Felixs ability to turn into sand)

That would be a really cool dodge animation.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Personally, it would be a much better entrance animation.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

What would be other splash screen/entrance ideas?

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I was just reading this article about King K. Rool: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/#post-22302802

Specifically this part is interesting to me:

"To shed further light, per Hyle, per his sources (Mr. Throat or otherwise), K. Rool's hiatus boiled down to "internal apathy and factional disagreements." I have since been able to independently confirm through two sources that one of the parties that wanted to bring back K. Rool sooner was none other than Retro Studios. They were interested in putting K. Rool in the Tropical Freeze Switch port in some capacity, but were denied with no reasoning given. This reportedly was because after the ballot Sakurai had personally called dibs on reviving the character himself."

It's interesting that Retro Studios were supposedly denied access to King K. Rool so that Sakurai could revive the character himself. I wonder if something similar could happen with Isaac? I guess it seems like a stretch but maybe Camelot are sitting on a Golden Sun announcement but Nintendo is holding back on the announcement until Sakurai can "revive" Isaac.

 

[SirCamp]

I was just reading this article about King K. Rool: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/#post-22302802

Specifically this part is interesting to me:

"To shed further light, per Hyle, per his sources (Mr. Throat or otherwise), K. Rool's hiatus boiled down to "internal apathy and factional disagreements." I have since been able to independently confirm through two sources that one of the parties that wanted to bring back K. Rool sooner was none other than Retro Studios. They were interested in putting K. Rool in the Tropical Freeze Switch port in some capacity, but were denied with no reasoning given. This reportedly was because after the ballot Sakurai had personally called dibs on reviving the character himself."

It's interesting that Retro Studios were supposedly denied access to King K. Rool so that Sakurai could revive the character himself. I wonder if something similar could happen with Isaac? I guess it seems like a stretch but maybe Camelot are sitting on a Golden Sun announcement but Nintendo is holding back on the announcement until Sakurai can "revive" Isaac.

This feels a bit conspiracy theory esque. Fun to speculate about though. It's definitely possible they are waiting on an announcement. I think more likely though they are probably waiting on how well received the character's inclusion is if anything. And then potentially proceed with a revival from there.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

What would be other splash screen/entrance ideas?

Teleport. It'd double as a good recovery move too.

I was just reading this article about King K. Rool: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/#post-22302802

Specifically this part is interesting to me:

"To shed further light, per Hyle, per his sources (Mr. Throat or otherwise), K. Rool's hiatus boiled down to "internal apathy and factional disagreements." I have since been able to independently confirm through two sources that one of the parties that wanted to bring back K. Rool sooner was none other than Retro Studios. They were interested in putting K. Rool in the Tropical Freeze Switch port in some capacity, but were denied with no reasoning given. This reportedly was because after the ballot Sakurai had personally called dibs on reviving the character himself."

It's interesting that Retro Studios were supposedly denied access to King K. Rool so that Sakurai could revive the character himself. I wonder if something similar could happen with Isaac? I guess it seems like a stretch but maybe Camelot are sitting on a Golden Sun announcement but Nintendo is holding back on the announcement until Sakurai can "revive" Isaac.

Very intriguing. It would make sense that, as the promotional machine Smash is, Nintendo would allow Sakurai to use it to boost a character's familiarity and popularity to make for a more effective revival. As Dark Dawn didn't really meet expectations, it would make even more sense that Sakurai would undergo this same process for Isaac to help boost the potential for Golden Sun as a whole.

We'd just have to see if he's interested in Isaac or not.

 

[Organization XIII]

I was just reading this article about King K. Rool: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/#post-22302802

Specifically this part is interesting to me:

"To shed further light, per Hyle, per his sources (Mr. Throat or otherwise), K. Rool's hiatus boiled down to "internal apathy and factional disagreements." I have since been able to independently confirm through two sources that one of the parties that wanted to bring back K. Rool sooner was none other than Retro Studios. They were interested in putting K. Rool in the Tropical Freeze Switch port in some capacity, but were denied with no reasoning given. This reportedly was because after the ballot Sakurai had personally called dibs on reviving the character himself."

It's interesting that Retro Studios were supposedly denied access to King K. Rool so that Sakurai could revive the character himself. I wonder if something similar could happen with Isaac? I guess it seems like a stretch but maybe Camelot are sitting on a Golden Sun announcement but Nintendo is holding back on the announcement until Sakurai can "revive" Isaac.

See what that actually sounds like is complete garbage.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Teleport. It'd double as a good recovery move too.



Very intriguing. It would make sense that, as the promotional machine Smash is, Nintendo would allow Sakurai to use it to boost a character's familiarity and popularity to make for a more effective revival. As Dark Dawn didn't really meet expectations, it would make even more sense that Sakurai would undergo this same process for Isaac to help boost the potential for Golden Sun as a whole.

We'd just have to see if he's interested in Isaac or not.

I'd like to think that if King K Rool's result in the ballot was enough to send "reverberations" through Nintendo then Isaacs performance will at least have been enough to make them seriously consider him for the roster.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I was just reading this article about King K. Rool: https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/#post-22302802

Specifically this part is interesting to me:

"To shed further light, per Hyle, per his sources (Mr. Throat or otherwise), K. Rool's hiatus boiled down to "internal apathy and factional disagreements." I have since been able to independently confirm through two sources that one of the parties that wanted to bring back K. Rool sooner was none other than Retro Studios. They were interested in putting K. Rool in the Tropical Freeze Switch port in some capacity, but were denied with no reasoning given. This reportedly was because after the ballot Sakurai had personally called dibs on reviving the character himself."

It's interesting that Retro Studios were supposedly denied access to King K. Rool so that Sakurai could revive the character himself. I wonder if something similar could happen with Isaac? I guess it seems like a stretch but maybe Camelot are sitting on a Golden Sun announcement but Nintendo is holding back on the announcement until Sakurai can "revive" Isaac.

"Because Sakurai called Dibs."
I'm sorry, WHAT?

I didn't think Sakurai was that kind of person. Would Sakurai really want to revive him first? I'm so confused.

Is Isaac going through the same process? Are they holding back potential development just to let Sakurai revive him???

I have so many mixed feelings on this, but this feels something out of the Twilight Zone. This feels like a giant conspiracy theory.

And this is coming from the guy who thought the pillows were in reference to isaac.

 

[Tetiro]

Teleport. It'd double as a good recovery move too.



Very intriguing. It would make sense that, as the promotional machine Smash is, Nintendo would allow Sakurai to use it to boost a character's familiarity and popularity to make for a more effective revival. As Dark Dawn didn't really meet expectations, it would make even more sense that Sakurai would undergo this same process for Isaac to help boost the potential for Golden Sun as a whole.

We'd just have to see if he's interested in Isaac or not.

Interesting and logical. After all Sakurai made Fire Emblem a thing in the west and revived Pit too. Sakurai is the best at a revival that's for sure

 

[Gameguy1996]

Isaac is my wanted character from a series that is not playable in Smash yet. Sadly I think he needs another new game in order to make it in like Little Mac did. Maybe Camelot will remake the first Golden Sun after they make Mario Golf?

 

[James Tutumbero]

Hello, I'm new on this website, I'm one of those readers who was watching this thread on the shadows and all I want to say is that Isaac is my most wanted character to appear in Smash Ultimate (like all of the people in this thread) and that I'm Spanish so my English sometimes can be bad.

 

[Lonodel]

To be honest, i kinda felt that was what they were going for. But i think they went far enough with that aspect.



Heh. sorry.



Warrior just seems like a generic and broad term.

I mean wouldn't old man also fit isaac he was like 40 something last i checked

On a side note this thread is really taking off it's so hard to keep up with and still do other things with my life XD

 

[Muirkat]

Hello, I'm new on this website, I'm one of those readers who was watching this thread on the shadows and all I want to say is that Isaac is my most wanted character to appear in Smash Ultimate (like all of the people in this thread) and that I'm Spanish so my English sometimes can be bad.

Welcome brother!

 

[James Tutumbero]

So, I was thinking of how a Golden Sun stage could fit in the Smash style and also the Golden Sun style, and I came up with the idea of a stage based of the fact that every time you enter the battle, one of the four lighthouses is randomly selected. And with the respective Djinns appearing as an exclusive item which, when collected three of them, they can summon Cybele, Tiamat, Procne or Neptune, depending the lighthouse.

 

[Tetiro]

So, I was thinking of how a Golden Sun stage could fit in the Smash style and also the Golden Sun style, and I came up with the idea of a stage based of the fact that every time you enter the battle, one of the four lighthouses is randomly selected. And with the respective Djinns appearing as an exclusive item which, when collected three of them, they can summon Cybele, Tiamat, Procne or Neptune, depending the lighthouse.

Similar to Midgar with its summons though with item collecting involved? Not a bad idea!

 

[Sabrewulf238]

That would be a pretty good idea actually. There are so many cool summons in Golden Sun, and Isaac can arguably only use one of them as a final Smash. (I mean he could get more than one final smash like Ryu but it's unlikely)

 

[Lonodel]

That would be a pretty good idea actually. There are so many cool summons in Golden Sun, and Isaac can arguably only use one of them as a final Smash. (I mean he could get more than one final smash like Ryu but it's unlikely)

*gives up on isaac for smash just makes a Golden sun fighting game*

 

[FrankAL]

I want Isaac so bad, however if we did get him I don't want the adult version. I want the teen version. It'd be pretty disappointing to me if we got adult Isaac from dark dawn because we didn't play as him. It'd also be impossible to have felix as an echo character because of him not being in Dark Dawn.

 

[Icana]

WOW!

Guys, check out this amazing cover of the Elemental Stars played by Eliott Trodo with a live instrument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvb1-kd1IlY

The cover is short. I wish it was a little longer, but it's very good!

 

[James Tutumbero]

I want Isaac so bad, however if we did get him I don't want the adult version. I want the teen version. It'd be pretty disappointing to me if we got adult Isaac from dark dawn because we didn't play as him. It'd also be impossible to have felix as an echo character because of him not being in Dark Dawn.

Yeah, while Felix being an echo would be sick, Matthew makes more sense due to his similar design

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I wonder if it's noteworthy that Golden Sun was likely the number one Nintendo owned IP in the ballot vote.

I suppose Splatoon may have beaten us. Though if I recall Splatoon was still in it's infancy during the ballot vote and I don't remember there being a massive push behind them at the time (I think the franchise hadn't fully proven itself at the time)....but now that the Inklings are in Smash Golden Sun may very well be the number one Nintendo IP not represented in Smash now according to the ballot.

I guess we can't predict Sakurai but I would hope that if there was a fanbase supporting an unrepresented Nintendo franchise that ranked high in the ballot he would throw them a bone. Especially when it's a character that hasn't been relevant for quite a while.

I remember reading an interview with Sakurai a while back about Geno, I think he said something like (I'm paraphrasing here) he respected Geno fans for supporting him so long after his original appearance. I think there's a chance Sakurai may look favourably on Isaac for similar reasons. Here's hoping.

 

[Tetiro]

I wonder if it's noteworthy that Golden Sun was likely the number one Nintendo owned IP in the ballot vote.

I suppose Splatoon may have beaten us. Though if I recall Splatoon was still in it's infancy during the ballot vote and I don't remember there being a massive push behind them at the time (I think the franchise hadn't fully proven itself at the time)....but now that the Inklings are in Smash Golden Sun may very well be the number one Nintendo IP not represented in Smash now according to the ballot.

I guess we can't predict Sakurai but I would hope that if there was a fanbase supporting an unrepresented Nintendo franchise that ranked high in the ballot he would throw them a bone. Especially when it's a character that hasn't been relevant for quite a while.

I remember reading an interview with Sakurai a while back about Geno, I think he said something like (I'm paraphrasing here) he respected Geno fans for supporting him so long after his original appearance. I think there's a chance Sakurai may look favourably on Isaac for similar reasons. Here's hoping.

Actually Splatoon was a shoe-in as it was the real major success of the Wii U.

But I think you might be right. Golden Sun might actually be the number one Nintendo owned IP in the ballot as most of the other fighters are from the existing IPs.

This might give Golden Sun the edge as Sakurai had a massive new-IP drive in Brawl and Wii U. At least 40% (50% excluding echoes) of the newcomers were from new/unrepresented IPs. Sakurai has ranged from 23.08% to 83.33% (including echoes) regarding % of newcomers being a new IP. Ultimate has already surpassed the minimum with Splatoon and Castlevania.

And if you include newcomers with brand new movesets only (no echoes), that % ranges from 42.86% to 90.91%.

Oh I finished my statistics hence the %. I have a bit more to say as well

 

[Frosty Pops]

Yeah, I am pret

it's /v/ 'leaks' lol. most of them are a load of bull.

I've still been trying to figure that one out for myself over "who owns the rights to Golden Sun"; last I checked, I think it's a co-ownership.

I am pretty sure nintendo owns the characters themselves, and camelot owns the programming for the game.

 

[Huanchi]

people always said "2nd party" back in smash 4 speculations across the boards

 

[JaidynReiman]

people always said "2nd party" back in smash 4 speculations across the boards

Because what they don't understand is that 2nd party is a made up term. Far as I'm aware, first party is essentially anything that has contract exclusivity.

"Because Sakurai called Dibs."
I'm sorry, WHAT?

I didn't think Sakurai was that kind of person. Would Sakurai really want to revive him first? I'm so confused.

Is Isaac going through the same process? Are they holding back potential development just to let Sakurai revive him???

I have so many mixed feelings on this, but this feels something out of the Twilight Zone. This feels like a giant conspiracy theory.

And this is coming from the guy who thought the pillows were in reference to isaac.

In terms of both situations it's pretty easily explainable.


There hasn't been a big new DK game to put him in anyway. The rumor is that Retro wanted him for a bonus boss in TF Switch. And maybe Ubisoft wanted him for the Mario+Rabbids DLC.

Them having plans for K. Rool in future releases is perfectly plausible and likely. There's probably already a new DK game in the works.


Similarly, Camelot is working on Aces anyway. And they would flat out know if Sakurai planned to include Isaac (because they would've been contacted) and could plan development on a new GS so that it comes out after Smash.


K. Rool's return being Smash is far more impactful than as an optional element in a port of their prior game. Isaac IMO would work great being revealed before a new GS game by that same line of thinking.

 

[Tetiro]

Regarding Golden Sun on the Switch, we all need to remember the vast majority of Nintendo's studios are now working on the Switch. So unlike the GC/GBA, Wii/DS and Wii U/3DS, Camelot's resources aren't as stretched. So now they can actually work on Mario Golf/Golden Sun without worrying about making a handheld game. This means we can expect 2-3 more titles from them over the Switch's remaining lifespan.

And seeing as their only franchises are Mario Golf or Golden Sun, unless they want to make another Mario Tennis (which they never do), Golden Sun is likely getting a title this time.

 

[James Tutumbero]

They should remake the first two games and combine them into one like it was originally planned. That could attract new audiences and increase the popularity of the franchise.
And please, less dialogue.

 

[JaidynReiman]

They should remake the first two games and combine them into one like it was originally planned. That could attract new audiences and increase the popularity of the franchise.
And please, less dialogue.

That's really what I predict happening first. GS1/2 remake on Switch as one title, full voice acting, Isaac and Felix are no longer mute, and maybe rework the dialogue a bit.

The main thing I'm unsure of is how they'd handle Felix. I've considered a couple things such as playing through the game as Isaac or Felix, where you get to see Felix's perspective of the events of GS1 and Isaac's of GS2, and maybe Alex is a guest character before Sheba joins. Or maybe they just auto switch to Felix as normal.

 

[James Tutumbero]

That's really what I predict happening first. GS1/2 remake on Switch as one title, full voice acting, Isaac and Felix are no longer mute, and maybe rework the dialogue a bit.

The main thing I'm unsure of is how they'd handle Felix. I've considered a couple things such as playing through the game as Isaac or Felix, where you get to see Felix's perspective of the events of GS1 and Isaac's of GS2, and maybe Alex is a guest character before Sheba joins. Or maybe they just auto switch to Felix as normal.

Other thing they could do is when you finish the first game, the story of the second one is unlocked, while you can still enter the first one to keep exploring the world and get some items with no consequences on the second game until the two parties meet.

 

[isaac3000]

Actually Splatoon was a shoe-in as it was the real major success of the Wii U.

But I think you might be right. Golden Sun might actually be the number one Nintendo owned IP in the ballot as most of the other fighters are from the existing IPs.

This might give Golden Sun the edge as Sakurai had a massive new-IP drive in Brawl and Wii U. At least 40% (50% excluding echoes) of the newcomers were from new/unrepresented IPs. Sakurai has ranged from 23.08% to 83.33% (including echoes) regarding % of newcomers being a new IP. Ultimate has already surpassed the minimum with Splatoon and Castlevania.

And if you include newcomers with brand new movesets only (no echoes), that % ranges from 42.86% to 90.91%.

Oh I finished my statistics hence the %. I have a bit more to say as well

I want to know the maths for the statistics, could you explain please?

 

[topspin1617]

That's really what I predict happening first. GS1/2 remake on Switch as one title, full voice acting, Isaac and Felix are no longer mute, and maybe rework the dialogue a bit.

The main thing I'm unsure of is how they'd handle Felix. I've considered a couple things such as playing through the game as Isaac or Felix, where you get to see Felix's perspective of the events of GS1 and Isaac's of GS2, and maybe Alex is a guest character before Sheba joins. Or maybe they just auto switch to Felix as normal.

I want this.

 

[Tetiro]

I want to know the maths for the statistics, could you explain please?

Certainly my good sir! I sat down and listed all newcomers per iteration and marked down in order of their arrival whether or not they introduced a new IP. Using that number, you can divide by the number of newcomers to find out the % of newcomers who brought with them a new IP.

I had to set the rule of "once a series is confirmed by a character, it can't be counted again). After all, Marth introduced the series but Roy was also in Melee as a clone. So Roy's series was already counted. It makes the calculation a lot cleaner as it removes duplication. I have the tallies below

• Of the 12 newcomers in 64, 10 of them brought a new series (With Luigi and Jigglypuff not adding to the tally)
• For Melee, only 3 newcomers were from a new series (Ice Climbers, Mr Game & Watch, Marth)
• In Brawl, 6 newcomers were from a new series (Olimar, R.O.B, Pit, Snake, Sonic and Wario)
• 3DS/Wii U had the most with a staggering 11 (Bayonetta, Cloud, Duck Hunt Duo, Litte Mac, Mega Man, Mii Fighters, Pac-Man, Ryu, Shulk, Villager and Wii Fit Trainer
  • If we exclude DLC, that is 8 out of 15
• Ultimate has 2 right now (Inkling and Simon)

Using that, you can divide by the number of newcomers total to find the rate.

• N64 = 10 / 12 = 83.33%
• Melee = 3 / 13 = 23.08%
• Brawl = 6 / 15 = 40.00%
• 3DS/Wii U = 11 / 19 = 57.89%
  • If we exclude DLC, it is 8 / 15 = 53.33%
• Ultimate = 2 / 8 = 25.00%

I do statistics and maths a lot so I am used to this sort of thing. If I excluded the echoes, the rate is higher due to most of them being part of the same series so it distorts the result. But hopefully this makes sense!

EDIT: Per request I have added the option to exclude DLC from 3DS/Wii U