Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Baddies are back]

Yeah they haven't done it yet...except pit, duck hunt dog, mr. Game and watch...but who is counting?

Yeah, really relevancy should have died with pit in brawl.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Is it just me or is this thread going to be the most posted one soon?
(Think of the characters on this board, we're #2 only behind Ashley. #1 for unknown characters)

 

[Baddies are back]

Is it just me or is this thread going to be the most posted one soon?
(Think of the characters on this board, we're #2 only behind Ashley. #1 for unknown characters)

I mean. It makes sense. Isaac has the most moveset potential out of a lot of the characters I've seen in the speculation threads. (At least, the ones that aren't confirmed) and Isaac is one of the most popular newcomers if these polls are any indication.

 

[Pwnapplez]

8.8.2018
Smash Direct
Starts with Castlevania, Moon
Middle shows Dark Samus an AT get a spot as a fighter

THE CHAIRS
Ends with King K Rule and a rising sun (Highly requested Smash ballot character get in)
Next Day

This
Our biggest stretch but piece of evidence.


What does this give us?
Moon, Sun, Chairs, Dragon and Camalot angle

Moon - Skull Kid
Sun - Isaac

Ridley, K Rule both popular picks from the ballot

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469

The results

Isaac is the next most popular character

No AT yet. Main Character and face of the game


So what does this all mean?
Sakurai could be hinting and toying with us. As of now, things look pretty pretty okay to me. My optimism was restored looking at 2015 results.

From the results who have been the top picks?
Isaac, Banjo, Bandanaa Dee.
Who has been on Sakurai radar?
Geno
Who has the community been talking about now due to chairs and a "leak"
Skull Kid

Heroes vs Villains or even rivals
Who has em?
Isaac - Felix
Skull Kid - Young Link

Who was being talked about in 2015?
Isaac, Banjo, Bandanaa Dee and Geno


From all of this what could happen?

Geno could be in due to an Mii clothing and Sakurai wanting him, it's up to square to do anything at this point.

From the "leak" if Skull Kid is in he will fit the Villain role. In 2015 he didn't rank high, his popularity only boomed after the "leak" (not saying he was not popular just from the demand) he is no longer an AT. Did the replace him with the moon? Does he have a new role? These are the questions

Isaac
Demand for him since brawl, ranked super high in every poll to date.
The problem? Dark Dawn, his AT being removed and no Mii clothing. (Look DD was not a bad game I am just putting it out that it did not meat Nintendo expectations.)

What could this mean?
AT could of been removed due to the 3Ds not handling move or that his AT was terrible and was replaced with something else
Mii outfits were all made BEFORE the ballot. Sakurai could of not done one for Isaac because maybe he was planned, didn't think it would sell, or did not think the Mii Sword Fighter fit for Isaac.

What does Isaac have going for him?
The demand since Brawl, ranking higher then Geno and Skull Kid, the screenshot, being a former AT that has not been show off yet and the Smash ballot.


In the end Isaac has a good chance to be in. Be optimistic because atm things look to be in the favor of what people wanted in 2015.

From the lot of what FANS want
Geno, Banjo, Isaac, Bandanna Dee, Skull Kid

From what Nintendo wants?
Idk maybe a Pokemon? Sun and Moon were terrible

At the end of the day, Isaac may be in Smash bros, each day may be painful but we have not given up hope since Brawl.
Yes the pain hurts but no AT means good things.

Stay positive, don't have super high expectations, but stay positive.
It's now or never, and things right now look the best since the teaser we got for Dark Dawn

It's up to US not to let the Sun set, we need to keep talking and hyping up Isaac, becasue that the end of the day, the Sun will rise again.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I mean. It makes sense. Isaac has the most moveset potential out of a lot of the characters I've seen in the speculation threads. (At least, the ones that aren't confirmed) and Isaac is one of the most popular newcomers if these polls are any indication.

oh trust me I'm very pleased with this. I highly want to keep it this way. I'm just noticing it is all

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm guessing Sakurai has an issue with HAL's newer Kirby games?

Not any in particular, he apparently has a general lack of fondness of the sequel-driven nature of the industry.

Well, that and the Kirby games he's worked on are the ones he seemingly prefers to stick to (probably because he wouldn't want to mess with other people's stuff). He originally didn't want his bias to show through in regards to Kirby (until Brawl happened), so it's a wonder he didn't leave the pink puff himself as its only rep.

 

[candyissweet]

Is it just me or is this thread going to be the most posted one soon?
(Think of the characters on this board, we're #2 only behind Ashley. #1 for unknown characters)

On this topic, I'd like to bring something kind of amazing up. A lot of times I like to look back to back when the 8/8 direct was first announced because that was the direct that gave us hope.

That was on page 68.

Also completely unrelated, but I would totally try to make a moveset but I'm stuck deciding whether his grab should be Move or Growth.

 

[KMDP]

8.8.2018
Smash Direct
Starts with Castlevania, Moon
Middle shows Dark Samus an AT get a spot as a fighter
View attachment 158033
THE CHAIRS
Ends with King K Rule and a rising sun (Highly requested Smash ballot character get in)
Next Day
View attachment 158034
This
Our biggest stretch but piece of evidence.


What does this give us?
Moon, Sun, Chairs, Dragon and Camalot angle

Moon - Skull Kid
Sun - Isaac

Ridley, K Rule both popular picks from the ballot

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469

The results

Isaac is the next most popular character

No AT yet. Main Character and face of the game


So what does this all mean?
Sakurai could be hinting and toying with us. As of now, things look pretty pretty okay to me. My optimism was restored looking at 2015 results.

From the results who have been the top picks?
Isaac, Banjo, Bandanaa Dee.
Who has been on Sakurai radar?
Geno
Who has the community been talking about now due to chairs and a "leak"
Skull Kid

Heroes vs Villains or even rivals
Who has em?
Isaac - Felix
Skull Kid - Young Link

Who was being talked about in 2015?
Isaac, Banjo, Bandanaa Dee and Geno


From all of this what could happen?

Geno could be in due to an Mii clothing and Sakurai wanting him, it's up to square to do anything at this point.

From the "leak" if Skull Kid is in he will fit the Villain role. In 2015 he didn't rank high, his popularity only boomed after the "leak" (not saying he was not popular just from the demand) he is no longer an AT. Did the replace him with the moon? Does he have a new role? These are the questions

Isaac
Demand for him since brawl, ranked super high in every poll to date.
The problem? Dark Dawn, his AT being removed and no Mii clothing. (Look DD was not a bad game I am just putting it out that it did not meat Nintendo expectations.)

What could this mean?
AT could of been removed due to the 3Ds not handling move or that his AT was terrible and was replaced with something else
Mii outfits were all made BEFORE the ballot. Sakurai could of not done one for Isaac because maybe he was planned, didn't think it would sell, or did not think the Mii Sword Fighter fit for Isaac.

What does Isaac have going for him?
The demand since Brawl, ranking higher then Geno and Skull Kid, the screenshot, being a former AT that has not been show off yet and the Smash ballot.


In the end Isaac has a good chance to be in. Be optimistic because atm things look to be in the favor of what people wanted in 2015.

From the lot of what FANS want
Geno, Banjo, Isaac, Bandanna Dee, Skull Kid

From what Nintendo wants?
Idk maybe a Pokemon? Sun and Moon were terrible

At the end of the day, Isaac may be in Smash bros, each day may be painful but we have not given up hope since Brawl.
Yes the pain hurts but no AT means good things.

Stay positive, don't have super high expectations, but stay positive.
It's now or never, and things right now look the best since the teaser we got for Dark Dawn

It's up to US not to let the Sun set, we need to keep talking and hyping up Isaac, becasue that the end of the day, the Sun will rise again.

N3ON , does this warrant "the gif"?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Not sure if I'm the supporters list but put me on, I'd be happy to see Isaac make it in, I played Golden Sun and the Lost Age a bit back in the day.

I'm more fond of Lost Age and Felix, but Isaac is cool too, now I just hope they pull a Richter with Felix.

 

[Frosty Pops]

8.8.2018
Smash Direct
Starts with Castlevania, Moon
Middle shows Dark Samus an AT get a spot as a fighter
View attachment 158033
THE CHAIRS
Ends with King K Rule and a rising sun (Highly requested Smash ballot character get in)
Next Day
View attachment 158034
This
Our biggest stretch but piece of evidence.


What does this give us?
Moon, Sun, Chairs, Dragon and Camalot angle

Moon - Skull Kid
Sun - Isaac

Ridley, K Rule both popular picks from the ballot

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469

The results

Isaac is the next most popular character

No AT yet. Main Character and face of the game


So what does this all mean?
Sakurai could be hinting and toying with us. As of now, things look pretty pretty okay to me. My optimism was restored looking at 2015 results.

From the results who have been the top picks?
Isaac, Banjo, Bandanaa Dee.
Who has been on Sakurai radar?
Geno
Who has the community been talking about now due to chairs and a "leak"
Skull Kid

Heroes vs Villains or even rivals
Who has em?
Isaac - Felix
Skull Kid - Young Link

Who was being talked about in 2015?
Isaac, Banjo, Bandanaa Dee and Geno


From all of this what could happen?

Geno could be in due to an Mii clothing and Sakurai wanting him, it's up to square to do anything at this point.

From the "leak" if Skull Kid is in he will fit the Villain role. In 2015 he didn't rank high, his popularity only boomed after the "leak" (not saying he was not popular just from the demand) he is no longer an AT. Did the replace him with the moon? Does he have a new role? These are the questions

Isaac
Demand for him since brawl, ranked super high in every poll to date.
The problem? Dark Dawn, his AT being removed and no Mii clothing. (Look DD was not a bad game I am just putting it out that it did not meat Nintendo expectations.)

What could this mean?
AT could of been removed due to the 3Ds not handling move or that his AT was terrible and was replaced with something else
Mii outfits were all made BEFORE the ballot. Sakurai could of not done one for Isaac because maybe he was planned, didn't think it would sell, or did not think the Mii Sword Fighter fit for Isaac.

What does Isaac have going for him?
The demand since Brawl, ranking higher then Geno and Skull Kid, the screenshot, being a former AT that has not been show off yet and the Smash ballot.


In the end Isaac has a good chance to be in. Be optimistic because atm things look to be in the favor of what people wanted in 2015.

From the lot of what FANS want
Geno, Banjo, Isaac, Bandanna Dee, Skull Kid

From what Nintendo wants?
Idk maybe a Pokemon? Sun and Moon were terrible

At the end of the day, Isaac may be in Smash bros, each day may be painful but we have not given up hope since Brawl.
Yes the pain hurts but no AT means good things.

Stay positive, don't have super high expectations, but stay positive.
It's now or never, and things right now look the best since the teaser we got for Dark Dawn

It's up to US not to let the Sun set, we need to keep talking and hyping up Isaac, becasue that the end of the day, the Sun will rise again.

Also you gotta think, of those 5 character's, if they don't make it in, there is a good chance they will be the DLC characters.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Isaac's in boys, I feel it in the Earth

 

[Baddies are back]

Not sure if I'm the supporters list but put me on, I'd be happy to see Isaac make it in, I played Golden Sun and the Lost Age a bit back in the day.

I'm more fond of Lost Age and Felix, but Isaac is cool too, now I just hope they pull a Richter with Felix.

A lot of us are hoping for a Felix echo

 

[KMDP]

Isaac's in boys, I feel it in the Earth

I know that he's here, I sense it in my feet.

The Great Emerald's Power allows me to feel...​

 

[MrGame&Rock]

A Felix echo would be awesome. I'm even envisioning a scenario where, in addition to some of their moves working differently, Isaac is a fastfaller while Felix has a more average fall speed or vice versa. Or give them different weapons (like Gaia's Axe and Stellar Axe) and go from there. I know Felix echo is a stretch and Id be satisfied with just Isaac but it would be sooooo cool!

edit: would Felix or Matthew be more likely as an echo?

 

[KMDP]

A Felix echo would be awesome. I'm even envisioning a scenario where, in addition to some of their moves working differently, Isaac is a fastfaller while Felix has a more average fall speed or vice versa. Or give them different weapons (like Gaia's Axe and Stellar Axe) and go from there. I know Felix echo is a stretch and Id be satisfied with just Isaac but it would be sooooo cool!

edit: would Felix or Matthew be more likely as an echo?

Hmm... Felix hits harder, but is slower; this is what's different about him and Isaac in the games.

Also, Isaac's Final Smash is Judgement, while Felix's is Megiddo.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Isaac's in boys, I feel it in the Earth

Me too, tbh. He's literally trailing behind K. Rool on most polls. K. Rool getting in bodes well for him

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Hmm... Felix hits harder, but is slower; this is what's different about him and Isaac in the games.

Also, Isaac's Final Smash is Judgement, while Felix's is Megiddo.

So like another Mario/Doc situation? I guess that could work too. I latched onto fall speed because that's something that would immediately make two very similar characters feel different while not making one better than the other, and it could be explained by, say, Isaac using Gaia's Axe (a venus weapon) and falling faster and Felix using the jupiter-based Stellar Axe and falling slower.

 

[Baddies are back]

So like another Mario/Doc situation? I guess that could work too. I latched onto fall speed because that's something that would immediately make two very similar characters feel different while not making one better than the other, and it could be explained by, say, Isaac using Gaia's Axe (a venus weapon) and falling faster and Felix using the jupiter-based Stellar Axe and falling slower.

Okay, but remember how fast Felix fell off the lighthouse? He'd definitely be the fast faller.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Okay, but remember how fast Felix fell off the lighthouse? He'd definitely be the fast faller.

That's true. I always kinda latched onto the idea of Isaac using Gaia's Axe but it can be switched around between them... or just give them both the Sol Blade and to hell with explaining why Felix falls like Fox while Isaac falls more like Marth.

Either way, I'm really excited to see what they'll DO with isaac and/or Felix. I have my own ideas (that I'd be more than willing to share in google doc for if anyone is interested) but I'm like 99.9999% sure Sakurai's Isaac will be a very different fighter from mine and I can't wait!

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I think Felix has a different enough personality for an echo; they've been even including a Meta Ridley alt for Ridley, of all things (which if it were an earlier Smash game, I wouldn't be that sure on them doing that) If nothing else, he'll be an alt choice for Isaac.

Unlike, say, Olimar and Alph, I feel ther's enough of a personality difference to let him be an echo. At the end of the day, Echo's are basically glorified alt costumes anyways.

 

[KMDP]

So like another Mario/Doc situation? I guess that could work too. I latched onto fall speed because that's something that would immediately make two very similar characters feel different while not making one better than the other, and it could be explained by, say, Isaac using Gaia's Axe (a venus weapon) and falling faster and Felix using the jupiter-based Stellar Axe and falling slower.

You could also go the

route and make it so that the only difference is that one doesn't jump as high the other .

I'm not kidding, in Sonic 3&K (and Mania), besides Knuckles' climb and glide, the fact that Knuckles can't jump as high is literally the only other difference between Sonic and Knuckles. Everyone says he's slower but it's not true, it just feels that way because he has less maneuverability than Sonic.

But, yeah. Making Felix Isaac's Dr. Mario is a good start (since they are so similar to each other in terms of capabilities).

 

[MrGame&Rock]

I think Felix has a different enough personality for an echo; they've been even including a Meta Ridley alt for Ridley, of all things (which if it were an earlier Smash game, I wouldn't be that sure on them doing that) If nothing else, he'll be an alt choice for Isaac.

Unlike, say, Olimar and Alph, I feel ther's enough of a personality difference to let him be an echo. At the end of the day, Echo's are basically glorified alt costumes anyways.

Yeah, I don't think they'll be adding alt costume type characters anyway if they can instead do the minimal effort required to make them an echo instead and get the hype train rolling.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Yeah, I don't think they'll be adding alt costume type characters anyway if they can instead do the minimal effort required to make them an echo instead and get the hype train rolling.

Kinda what I've been thinking. As long as the ratio isn't completely bloated (like, 4:1 with 10 new characters and 40 echo's) but even with the right marketing, I think they can easily get away with more Echo's

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Kinda what I've been thinking. As long as the ratio isn't completely bloated (like, 4:1 with 10 new characters and 40 echo's) but even with the right marketing, I think they can easily get away with more Echo's

Right. My guesstimate anyway is that we'll get 3 more new unique fighters and like 5 or so new echoes

 

[Baddies are back]

Three or four more unique fighters seems to be the unanimous agreement.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Three or four more unique fighters seems to be the unanimous agreement.

Though I can see more. 5 or 6 is still a "few" more fighters.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Though I can see more. 5 or 6 is still a "few" more fighters.

I think three because that would put us at an even 70, and given Ultimate's focus on numbers, ending on a round one seems appropriate

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Three to Six if you ask me. The absolute max overall is probably Ten - that'd still be close to Melee's, which was 8.

I doubt it'll be lower than Melee's. Brawl's and Smash 4's (even pre-DLC) were definitely higher, so I think something below is reasonable.

 

[Metocles]

I know that he's here, I sense it in my feet.

The Great Emerald's Power allows me to feel...​

 

[MrGame&Rock]

So does anyone have any interest in an Isaac server? I just made one now, might be useful for a support group as big as this one.

Invite: https://discord.gg/84vCrnn

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I know that he's here, I sense it in my feet.

The Great Emerald's Power allows me to feel...​

I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who thought htis.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Isaac's chances are looking greater than ever! He has got to be the next reveal. Unrelated question: I wonder if the Smashdown mode lets each player pick the same character if you are running low on fighters. If not that would mean the final roster # has to be divisible by 4. Otherwise all 4 players would not be able to pick all the way until there are no more characters left. I'm assuming they let people pick the same character which is kind of lame.

 

[KMDP]

Isaac's chances are looking greater than ever! He has got to be the next reveal. Unrelated question: I wonder if the Smashdown mode lets each player pick the same character if you are running low on fighters. If not that would mean the final roster # has to be divisible by 4. Otherwise all 4 players would not be able to pick all the way until there are no more characters left. I'm assuming they let people pick the same character which is kind of lame.

Here's what I think.

Either you have to declare a number of rounds (up to how ever many multiples of 2, 3 or 4 are possible) and play until all rounds are done, or Smashdown Mode ends when all possible match-ups are over.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

But what would Isaac's stage be?

 

[MrGame&Rock]

But what would Isaac's stage be?

Venus Lighthouse, of course!

 

[NessAtc.]

Lighthouse Aerie, with different forms or transformations for each elemental lighthouse.

Colosso, with transformations.

Lamakan Desert, with heat damage and oasis's to negate it

 

[Tiymako]

Had to catch up with all the pages, I've got to say it feels like a full time gig. Not to mention everyone has great information to bring to the table.

I, for one, feel that Isaac is going to happen this time around. The difference in Ultimate rather than in Sm4sh or even Brawl is that there is an engine to run on this time around for some decent fuel for conjecture. In the previous iterations of the Smash games, if you take a look at the newcomers, you could definitely see trends appearing and there were too many spots for characters that needed to be filled. How could Isaac contend against Diddy Kong and Wario in Brawl? or the recency and relevance push clearly set in place for Sm4sh? Not to mention... there was nothing really pointing towards Isaac being noticeable other than an AT... an AT that ultimately got snatched away like our hearts.

This time, all of that is out of the way. We know two things for certain which is the main things that lead me toward the Isaac conclusion. 'Everyone is here' and the Smash Ballot. A corollary is in the title of the game: 'Ultimate'. It's certainly appearing that that's the case... Over 900 songs, at least 103 stages, every playable character we've ever had. I'm also fully expecting that we'll get every game mode that smash has ever had (with maybe the exception of the board the platforms, race to the finish and target smash). Definitely All-Star mode, Event mode, Master and Crazy Orders and Home Run. You can't claim to be ultimate without that kind of thing going on, after all.

Now, put it all together in your mind while focusing on Isaac. Golden Sun is not an unsuccessful Nintendo franchise. To all of us here, you can't claim that everyone is here if Isaac isn't in here in the first place. After all, it's not as if Isaac is a flavor of the month popularity pick. Isaac as a character choice goes way back - even to the post Melee days. Yes, perhaps Brawl was too early, but he was definitely in lists even back then. Never really falling out of a top 10 in all-time perspective. For the Smash community, this list as I've noticed it, particularly between post-Brawl until now, has basically looked like Mewtwo, Roy, Wolf, Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, Geno in no particular order. Most of the other characters popularity tend to fluctuate wildly either being a flavor-of-the-month, recency or another similar factor. (Please note that I am not attempting to bash any other character in saying this, simply generalizing)

Most of these characters have now been realized in this latest game. Everyone except Isaac and Geno. I'll leave Geno aside to focus on Isaac. He's been in the game before and he's 1st party. We know the ballot matters in Ultimate and at the time the ballot was taken; while we've never been given specific numbers, Isaac was definitely not low. Something interesting to note about Isaac is how much he dominates specific character polling. In just about any poll where you can choose one and only one character, many other characters fade away leaving Isaac pretty close to the top. I believe that Dojo Exit poll 100%. Even if the numbers are bad, the statistics pooled together over a larger population are not going to fluctuate too wildly.

I never had hope like this before because these people were never selected for this specific dodgeball team before. The people being the 'Irrelevant Group' and the dodgeball team being a smash game. I fully expect both Isaac and Geno (unless something goes horribly wrong with the copyrights) because other than the Inklings, the only characters being chosen are from the 'Irrelevant Group'. If Isaac is passed over again it just wouldn't make sense anymore. It would be like asking you to pick 5 names out of a hat that had 5 names in it.

Hehe, this is exactly how I feel about Isaac and Geno. Could not have said that better myself, you give us a lot of hope! It's like you pulled these words right from my subconscious, heart and soul. This is the reason why I have so much hope for our boi!

 

[Saer2k]

But what would Isaac's stage be?

This is a weird one but I do like the idea of Lemuria being a stage.
I would imagine how gorgeous it would look in hd, it also has an significant role for both Isaac and Felix.

 

[isaac3000]

I'll leave this here and go slowly to sleep...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU2jJ3oudpU

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Venus Lighthouse, of course!

Lighthouse Aerie, with different forms or transformations for each elemental lighthouse.

Colosso, with transformations.

Lamakan Desert, with heat damage and oasis's to negate it

This is a weird one but I do like the idea of Lemuria being a stage.
I would imagine how gorgeous it would look in hd, it also has an significant role for both Isaac and Felix.

Oh. Quite a lot of suggestions.

I can't seem to figure a definitive one out. Like, Venus Lighthouse would be cool, but I'm sure other locations would be a lot cooler.

Can we agree that Judgement should be his final smash?