Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[StormC]

K Rool getting in must be a dream come true.

Also congrats on K Rool getting in. You must be so happy!

Thanks! I cried when he was revealed, lol. At this point, I got all my major character requests and just want to see other fans celebrate like I did.

 

[Pwnapplez]

Guys, if Isaac actually managed to get into Smash.

You know what that would mean?

It means that any nintendo character could get into smash.


Wonder Red. Custom Robo. Saki from Sin and Punisment. Takamaru. Dillon.

Ehhhh, i would not push it that far. Isaac is more of an iconic character from the rest of the bunch. I would not say any nintendo character, we just can put the "dead series" thing to rest

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Ehhhh, i would not push it that far. Isaac is more of an iconic character from the rest of the bunch. I would not say any nintendo character, we just can put the "dead series" thing to rest

Well that's what i meant. Any character from any inactive franchise has a chance to get.

 

[Istry555]

Guys, if Isaac actually managed to get into Smash.

You know what that would mean?

It means that any nintendo character could get into smash.


Wonder Red. Custom Robo. Saki from Sin and Punisment. Takamaru. Dillon.

These characters might also have a chance to get into smash. Obscurity or not.


It would further cement what makes Smash Bros so great. The exposure to other franchises.

I wish. I would love for Nintendo to rep their lesser and older series more than going for the 7th side character of their larger series or the current overpush for 3rd parties. So many, like the ones you mentioned, have the potential to make really fun movesets.

 

[Baddies are back]

The roster for ultimate is already amazing, so even if Isaac is just an assist trophy again there's no way I could be mad at it.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Development started in 2015, Isaac was crazy requested then!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Th4pdsrzs-6X303PPpw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/htmlview#

I mean look at the numbers! Isaac was popular back then and still is today!

I made up a quick list based on this exit poll of the characters that haven't been disconfirmed or added to the game as playable. I left Captain Toad and Viridi in despite their stage appearances because it's a little uncertain what that means for them. I decided to leave Batman and Goku in....against my better judgement.

Spoiler

01. Isaac
02. Banjo & Kazooie
03. Bandana Dee
04. Paper Mario
05. Shantae
06. Geno
07. Magolor
08. Dixie Kong
09. Wonder Red
10. Rayman
11. Captain Toad
12. Sora
13. Custom Robo
14. Jibyanyan
15. Phoenix Wright
16. Arle Nadja
17. Shadow
18. Professor Layton
19. Viridi
20. Micaiah
21. Magnemite
22. Toon Ganondorf
23. Klonoa
24. Goemon
25. Quote
26. Batman
27. Chibi-Robo
28. Monster Hunter
29. Adeleine
30. Viewtiful Joe
31. Black Shadow
32. Goku
33. Lanky Kong
34. Galacta Knight
35. Captain Rainbow
36. Chorus Men
37. Crash Bandicoot

I removed the percentages since I figure they probably don't make much sense after I've deleted characters.

I'm not sure if Meta Knight having a Galacta Knight alt disconfirms him but I left him in anyway. Thinking about it, Meta Knight having a Galacta Knight alt in the first place could be somewhat thanks to the ballot.

It's interesting how many characters on that exit poll list have already appeared in some way. Whether as playable or as an assist trophy. It makes me think there's no way Isaac won't show up in some way.

 

[Pwnapplez]

The roster for ultimate is already amazing, so even if Isaac is just an assist trophy again there's no way I could be mad at it.

Exactly! Right now the roster is a dream! However, this is not the end of it! We still have plenty of time to go!

I just want to see Isaac in as an AT or fighter at this point!
He deserves it!

Out of all the cut AT why Isaac? DD did not destroy the sales of the first two games? So why?

Advance Wars gets an AT yet the Wars series is gone.

I made up a quick list based on this exit poll of the characters that haven't been disconfirmed or added to the game as playable. I left Captain Toad and Viridi in despite their stage appearances because it's a little uncertain what that means for them. I decided to leave Batman and Goku in....against my better judgement.

Spoiler

01. Isaac
02. Banjo & Kazooie
03. Bandana Dee
04. Paper Mario
05. Shantae
06. Geno
07. Magolor
08. Dixie Kong
09. Wonder Red
10. Rayman
11. Captain Toad
12. Sora
13. Custom Robo
14. Jibyanyan
15. Phoenix Wright
16. Arle Nadja
17. Shadow
18. Professor Layton
19. Viridi
20. Micaiah
21. Magnemite
22. Toon Ganondorf
23. Klonoa
24. Goemon
25. Quote
26. Batman
27. Chibi-Robo
28. Monster Hunter
29. Adeleine
30. Viewtiful Joe
31. Black Shadow
32. Goku
33. Lanky Kong
34. Galacta Knight
35. Captain Rainbow
36. Chorus Men
37. Crash Bandicoot

I removed the percentages since I figure they probably don't make much sense after I've deleted characters.

I'm not sure if Meta Knight having a Galacta Knight alt disconfirms him but I left him in anyway. Thinking about it, Meta Knight having a Galacta Knight alt in the first place could be somewhat thanks to the ballot.

This! Who is on top? Who is next? Isaac. If Sakurai is listening, then you know who is next

 

[KMDP]

I've been thinking about this today and this seems pretty feasible, on the optimistic side of things.

September: General Direct, 1 reveal
October: Uploaded Trailer, 1 reveal
November: Smash Direct, 2 reveals, all remaining echoes

Like K. Rool, I think Isaac might be saved for a Smash direct due to his demand being primarily from dedicated Smash fans. A Pokemon or something could easily show up in the General Direct.

Personally? I think that when they do a General Direct, if they only have one reveal during it it might be a third party character: specifically Tails with Shadow as Sonic's Echo fighter. You know, revealed in a similar way to the Palutena trailer.

If, as you say, certain characters are revealed only during Smash Directs due to being primarily requested by Smash fans, Isaac and Geno might be the last two guys to get revealed.

 

[StormC]

Personally? I think that when they do a General Direct, if they only have one reveal during it it might be a third party character: specifically Tails with Shadow as Sonic's Echo fighter. You know, revealed in a similar way to the Palutena trailer.

If, as you say, certain characters are revealed only during Smash Directs due to being primarily requested by Smash fans, Isaac and Geno might be the last two guys to get revealed.

Isaac and Banjo are the horses I'm betting on for the last reveals. A third party can be announced at any time, there's no correlation to the type of Direct.

Tails as a unique fighter? Is there some new speculation or leak regarding his inclusion that I'm unaware of?

 

[N3ON]

With Greninja being the one to show up in the Smash 4 Smash Direct, and reveals such as Palutena and Ridley occurring at E3, I wouldn't put a ton of stock into the idea that the audience of the event corresponds to the type of character revealed.

 

[KMDP]

Isaac and Banjo are the horses I'm betting on for the last reveals. A third party can be announced at any time, there's no correlation to the type of Direct.

Tails as a unique fighter? Is there some new speculation or leak regarding his inclusion that I'm unaware of?

No leaks, just my personal opinion. A holdover from when I still thought Echoes had to be more similar to their bases than what they actually are.

And I suggested Tails and Shadow because there's no Direct Correlation (har har), they can reveal third party characters in literally any direct Nintendo wants.

 

[Pwnapplez]

You know the best thing for Sakurai to do is de-anime Isaac.

Do him some octopath protag justice

We all know Isaac will get a "new" look if he is in Smash

Personally? I think that when they do a General Direct, if they only have one reveal during it it might be a third party character: specifically Tails with Shadow as Sonic's Echo fighter. You know, revealed in a similar way to the Palutena trailer.

If, as you say, certain characters are revealed only during Smash Directs due to being primarily requested by Smash fans, Isaac and Geno might be the last two guys to get revealed.

Isaac and Banjo are the horses I'm betting on for the last reveals. A third party can be announced at any time, there's no correlation to the type of Direct.

Tails as a unique fighter? Is there some new speculation or leak regarding his inclusion that I'm unaware of?

It's going to be Isaac Geno Banjo Skull Kid Bandana Dee. 2 from that group

 

[StormC]

If nobody from the Isaac/Banjo/Bandana Dee group gets into the base game I will be pretty shocked.

Less sure about Geno because Square is so murky. Even Microsoft is more willing to play ball than they are.

 

[Baddies are back]

Isaac and Bandana Dee have the best chance in my opinion.

 

[N3ON]

Less sure about Geno because Square is so murky. Even Microsoft is more willing to play ball than they are.

I think that would ring truer if Geno wasn't already a part of Smash.

From the perspective of the third-party, the difference between costume and character probably just comes down to money.

 

[KMDP]

We all know Isaac will get a "new" look if he is in Smash

A new look, just like .

Wait, they made him more Anime!

If nobody from the Isaac/Banjo/Bandana Dee group gets into the base game I will be pretty shocked.

Less sure about Geno because Square is so murky. Even Microsoft is more willing to play ball than they are.

It's hilarious that a direct competitor might be more willing to work with Nintendo than a non-console developer.
C'mon Square Enix, I want my Bartender in Smash.

 

[Pwnapplez]

I think that would ring truer if Geno wasn't already a part of Smash.

From the perspective of the third-party, the difference between costume and character probably just comes down to money.

Yeah, it's going to be Geno and someone else. If we are going by leaks, it's skull kid, if we are going by 2015 popularity? Isaac

A new look, just like .

Wait, they made him more Anime.

They might give him a look kinda like Roy, shrink the chest plate he wears maybe make the scarf a little more iconic.

 

[Organization XIII]

If FF had more than 2 tracks maybe but honestly with Sakurai wanting Geno I feel he would have been in before now. Besides I am like 99% sure all DLC third parties were negotiated for both games so since Geno was just a costume I don't think he will make this time either. We will see though.

 

[StormC]

Plus back in early 2016 Sakurai was like "I really wanted Geno in Brawl, but it couldn't happen, so the Mii costume was the best I could do." It would be weird if he said that... if Geno was already in Smash Ultimate's design document. He avoided naming K. Rool, presumably to not show his hand.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think that would ring truer if Geno wasn't already a part of Smash.

From the perspective of the third-party, the difference between costume and character probably just comes down to money.

Not entirely. Don't forget that some companies care about how the character is represented. Costumes, moves, voices, etc. But yeah, the money part is barely different, agreed.

Also, I wish I added more than Isaac to my character lists. Ridley was there too, but I never expected Simon to get in(not that I didn't want him, but with Konami being... themselves, welllllll...)

 

[KMDP]

I think Geno and Skull Kid are... complicated.

Geno can only get in if Square Enix plays ball.
Skull Kid... didn't even make any fan exit polls, I think? (This is something I just now realized)

Considering the apparent accuracy these polls seem to be getting as time goes on, Skull Kid not appearing on them is... telling. It lends more credence to the theory that Skull Kid was a leaker trap (the fact that people also actually want him is just an unfortunate* wrinkle)

Plus back in early 2016 Sakurai was like "I really wanted Geno in Brawl, but it couldn't happen, so the Mii costume was the best I could do." It would be weird if he said that... if Geno was already in Smash Ultimate's design document. He avoided naming K. Rool, presumably to not show his hand.

This is true.

* EDIT: I mean "unfortunate" in the sense that people are going to be so disappointed if he doesn't get in, after all this talk.

 

[SonicLink125]

With all the talk about how many newcomers will be in left. My personal take on it is at LEAST 4-5. 6 if we're lucky. Now I am excluding Echo Fighters in this. Sakurai stated back before/during the Smash 4 DLC is that those fighters are very easy to make and do not take much time as a unique fighter would. Also, the clones are just the icing on the cake and do not take up a slot for a unique newcomer.

So far, we have gotten 4 new unique fighters now. I feel like when he said, "hope your not expecting too many new fighters", he meant unique fighters in particular. The number might not exceed past games, but the way they introduced Echo Fighters, it was to compensate for that issue so it feels like we ARE getting a lot of fighters now. What a brilliant strategy! Make everyone do a complete 180 of "I hate clones" to "I love Echo Fighters".

That's my take on the whole thing, but I could be wrong.

 

[StormC]

I could see Skull Kid getting in just because Sakurai is tangentially aware of the demand like he was for Ridley, as well as the general demand for a Zelda newcomer. He won that massive poll in 2012, so that's something.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, it's going to be Geno and someone else. If we are going by leaks, it's skull kid, if we are going by 2015 popularity? Isaac

The thing about Skull Kid is while he's always been popular, I don't remember him being "top of the charts" popular, so his inclusion, bar some unforseen tremendous performance in the ballot due to the nebulous "silent majority" (which seems unlikely since he had a predefined SSB4 role), could be in part due to Sakurai, justifiably, finding it ridiculous that Zelda hasn't gotten an original newcomer since 2001.

Plus back in early 2016 Sakurai was like "I really wanted Geno in Brawl, but it couldn't happen, so the Mii costume was the best I could do." It would be weird if he said that... if Geno was already in Smash Ultimate's design document. He avoided naming K. Rool, presumably to not show his hand.

I don't recall Sakurai saying that "the Mii costume was the best I could do".

 

[Icana]

Ehhhh, i would not push it that far. Isaac is more of an iconic character from the rest of the bunch. I would not say any nintendo character, we just can put the "dead series" thing to rest

Yeah, that's kind of a concern I have with that narrative. If Isaac got in, people might start to think that any character from a niche franchise should get in, not understanding that Golden Sun had historical successes that completely dwarf those franchises. Even Fire Emblem wasn't bigger than Golden Sun until many years later, and that series had Melee and Brawl promoting it.

I'll add that when Fire Emblem was on the decline, it had a remake of FE 1 with Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon on the DS. That game bombed hard. It's sequel didn't even come to the west. I hope if Golden Sun did get remakes, a much better effort is put forth while still maintaining the spirit of the originals.

 

[StormC]

I don't recall Sakurai saying that "the Mii costume was the best I could do".

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/04/29/duflupdate/

"When talking about older characters, Geno always gets a lot of requests. He didn’t appear as a fighter, but I was able to achieve something kind of close to that as a Mii Costume.”

 

[KMDP]

The thing about Skull Kid is while he's always been popular, I don't remember him being "top of the charts" popular, so his inclusion, bar some unforseen tremendous performance in the ballot due to the nebulous "silent majority" (which seems unlikely since he had a predefined SSB4 role), could be in part due to Sakurai, justifiably, finding it ridiculous that Zelda hasn't gotten an original newcomer since 2001.

I don't care what anyone says, my top Zelda pick is, and always will be, Vaati.

Impa and Tetra come close.

 

[N3ON]

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/04/29/duflupdate/

"When talking about older characters, Geno always gets a lot of requests. He didn’t appear as a fighter, but I was able to achieve something kind of close to that as a Mii Costume.”

Those aren't the same at all. Your interpretation implies the most he was able to achieve from the character was a costume, and the quote suggests that he was able to provide something close to playability via the costume.

The actual quote carries no insinuation that a costume is the extent of what Geno can achieve.

 

[Baddies are back]

About fire emblem bombing, they didn't market those games at all and a lot of long time fans hated the Tellius games.

 

[Pwnapplez]

The thing about Skull Kid is while he's always been popular, I don't remember him being "top of the charts" popular, so his inclusion, bar some unforseen tremendous performance in the ballot due to the nebulous "silent majority" (which seems unlikely since he had a predefined SSB4 role), could be in part due to Sakurai, justifiably, finding it ridiculous that Zelda hasn't gotten an original newcomer since 2001.


I don't recall Sakurai saying that "the Mii costume was the best I could do".

Skull Kid really only picked up traction after Loz18 "leak" and the whole chair and pillow thing. (to my knowledge)

Next on the list of top dogs is Isaac.

that is why I am saying be optimistic

 

[N3ON]

Not entirely. Don't forget that some companies care about how the character is represented. Costumes, moves, voices, etc. But yeah, the money part is barely different, agreed.

Also, I wish I added more than Isaac to my character lists. Ridley was there too, but I never expected Simon to get in(not that I didn't want him, but with Konami being... themselves, welllllll...)

You're not wrong, but if a company is alright with a character's hide being grafted onto a different existing character, having Sakurai create a faithful depiction of that character seems unlikely to pose a problem. The one that's already happened is the unfaithful representation.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You're not wrong, but if a company is alright with a character's hide being grafted onto a different existing character, having Sakurai create a faithful depiction of that character seems unlikely to pose a problem. The one that's already happened is the unfaithful representation.

Right, was more pointing out in general. Money isn't the only factor we know of. But it definitely is the most important, heh.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

About fire emblem bombing, they didn't market those games at all and a lot of long time fans hated the Tellius games.

Aw, i liked path of radiance.

Anyway, Besides Billy, i think Arlo was another Big Youtuber who wanted Isaac. (Though, i'm sure he thinks he's not likely due to the series being dead, as he failed to bring him up in likely fighters in the next direct.)

 

[Blue7113]

If Isaac and Banjo get in i will actually have a breakdown

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Even though the Golden Sun games were a success back in the day, let's not kid ourselves. If Isaac gets in it's because we voted in droves for him on the ballot not because Sakurai is suddenly recognizing how important those games are to Nintendo.

Especially considering this iteration of Smash Bros appears to be focusing so much on fan demand, Golden Sun being a successful franchise back in 2001 wouldn't mean enough on it's own. If it did we already would have gotten Isaac as a playable fighter.

 

[KMDP]

Skull Kid really only picked up traction after Loz18 "leak" and the whole chair and pillow thing. (to my knowledge)

Next on the list of top dogs is Isaac.

that is why I am saying be optimistic

...
I would just like to point out, to back up your point, that Skull Kid's supporters on this site more than tripled between July 15th and August 13th (specifically his Support Count increased by x3.581)

Considering the "Chair and Cushion Theory" and this detail, Skull Kid seems like a bit of a bandwagon character to me.

As N3ON said, Skull Kid's always been moderately popular, but he was in 44th Place (out 350 characters) last month, now he's in 13th Place (out of 426).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...
I would just like to point out, to back up your point, that Skull Kid's supporters on this site more than tripled between July 15th and August 13th (specifically his Support Count increased by x3.581)

Considering the "Chair and Cushion Theory" and this detail, Skull Kid seems like a bit of a bandwagon character to me.

As N3ON said, Skull Kid's always been moderately popular, but he was in 44th Place (out 350 characters) last month, now he's in 13th Place (out of 426).

Coupled with Tingle appearing as a Stage Hazard again, and all the other big candidates(bar Impa) being disconfirmed, this isn't that surprising. It doesn't mean a lot of his support is illegitimate, of course.

 

[Blue7113]

Coupled with Tingle appearing as a Stage Hazard again, and all the other big candidates(bar Impa) being disconfirmed, this isn't that surprising. It doesn't mean a lot of his support is illegitimate, of course.

I personally have always loved him. He has a great personality, a cool design, and is an iconic villain, just I always wrote him off aaa an assist. Zelda needs a new unique addition and Skull Kid is the perfect fit. Him and Impa as a sheik echo would honestly complete the Zelda roster for me.

 

[Bassoonist]

Skull Kid really only picked up traction after Loz18 "leak" and the whole chair and pillow thing. (to my knowledge)

Next on the list of top dogs is Isaac.

that is why I am saying be optimistic

I just fear we'll be shafted again. No credible leaks are pointing in our direction, and the leakers don't know anything about Isaac's status. I've been through this so many times.

It feels good to know that we're apparently the next most-wanted newcomer (although whether or not that's true in the statistics Sakurai has seen is really not known, correct me if I'm wrong), but I fear that won't be enough. Sakurai has (supposedly) built up this image that Ultimate is for the fans, but in the end he always goes out of his way to develop some weird characters that few/no people asked for and we haven't really seen any of those yet.

I'm not fully convinced that this Smash game's roster is all about appeasing fans. It could just be that Sakurai added a couple of obvious ones (Ridley and King K Rool) and he (and/or Nintendo) wanted them revealed early to build up hype, and then the rest of the roster will be... LABO robot, third party character that has nothing to do with Nintendo, etc.

I want to believe, though. Just been burnt too many times.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

If Isaac and Banjo get in i will actually have a breakdown

The thought of those two (or three, don't forget Kazooie!) getting into Smash as playable makes my head spin.

It's the closest thing I can imagine to how fans must have felt when Sonic or Megaman got in.