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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday
- Thread starter N3ON
- Start date
Huanchi
Smash Apprentice
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The leak was posted after the e3 direct imo. So why would he include characters that we already know about in his leak
Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
Personally I'm expecting three different reveals over the next 4 months.
A Nintendo direct, a Smash direct and a "new fighter reveal trailer" similar to what Robin got.
I think people forget we don't need a direct to get a character. If Sakurai needs to he'll just post a newcomer trailer on its own.
A Nintendo direct, a Smash direct and a "new fighter reveal trailer" similar to what Robin got.
I think people forget we don't need a direct to get a character. If Sakurai needs to he'll just post a newcomer trailer on its own.
Isaac: Venus Adept
Smash Lord
Kimishima said back in July that there are still unannounced Switch games coming out this year so we are definitely getting a new direct soon
https://www.gamnesia.com/news/nintendo-has-more-unannounced-switch-games-launching-in-2018
https://www.gamnesia.com/news/nintendo-has-more-unannounced-switch-games-launching-in-2018
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Tetiro
Smash Ace
This is true! I completely forgot Robin was not revealed in his normal way and more akin to his Brawl days where he shadow-dropped it.
And here's another tidbit.
I noticed that four series most-likely get a character. Zelda, Mario, Pokemon and Fire Emblem (I know, treading old water). Usually one of them does not get a rep. Fire Emblem wasn't in N64, Mario wasn't in Brawl and 3DS/Wii U had no Zelda rep.
Chrom and Daisy cover Fire Emblem and Mario. So if I had to guess I'd assume either Zelda or Pokemon will get a rep. And looking at the the fact Pokemon characters always get into Smash, I fear for Skull Kid's future now. Unless Sakurai decides to do a full house.
EDIT: Also jubillations! We are now at 125 pages!
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Klimax
Smash Ace
Guys, just ignore the doubters, history proved that they're wrong 99% of the time. There is no point in arguing with these people and their same old "blabla irrelevant blabla too big blabla not popular enough". Ignore them, they don't change anything, this Smash is all about the ballot and it means that things are looking good for Isaac. The negativity is not interesting at all.
Keep supporting Isaac, you're doing great, you're at 125 pages, that's awesome !
Keep supporting Isaac, you're doing great, you're at 125 pages, that's awesome !
Tetiro
Smash Ace
This is true! And it has already started to be proven true especially with the bombshell that Doom Eternal is on the Switch.
Who knows what else they have in their pockets
Flynn.Scifo
Smash Ace
We should also keep in mind that newcomers have probably been decided long ago, nothing happening now will change anything unlike Echo characters that can potentially still be added.
Tetiro
Smash Ace
I just want to say I love your signature banner. It looks amazing
Billybae10K
Smash Ace
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Still catching up on the conversation in this thread, but I got mentioned to clear up the loz thing. Basically, loz followed me on twitter to say he liked my video I did on him and Vergeben, that's it. As far as I know, he is only speculating on twitter due to needing to lay low after the Skull Kid leak on gamefaqs.
Treat his words as speculation, not as a leak, not as fact, because on twitter that is exactly what he's doing - Speculating. My video below goes over my thoughts on loz18 in more detail if you haven't checked it out. I'll reply again later after catching up with all the new pages on the thread.
EDIT:
Alright, guys, we need to remember something very important. We are Isaac supporters. Regardless of how others view us, regardless of how some of you guys may be doubting his chances, regardless of how some of us may be so sure he's in that we might get burned, we are Isaac's people. We are the only people keeping the hype going for this character.
Even if you have a gut feeling Isaac won't make it in, you should still do whatever you can to support the character. We already know the alternatives, assist trophy or nothing at all. They've been discussed to death and we're all well aware that things may not go our way. But until I've received confirmation as to Isaac's fate, I am not giving up and I'm going to go forward with enough optimism for everyone.
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Tetiro
Smash Ace
Great video! I had a hunch that this loz18 was downhill. Then again, Vergeben doesn't seem to have much new info to offer and seems to be circulating his info over and over again. I think his leaker has stopped.
Flynn.Scifo
Smash Ace
Thank you ! I've put lot of hype and love into it so I'm glad you like it.
Tetiro
Smash Ace
You made it yourself? That's pretty impressive! I should make my own :D
Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
Not only that but if he was right behind K. Rool then there's a chance he'll be the next announcement.
On another note, Phoenix Wrights placement in that exit poll makes me think there's a chance he'll be an assist. I mean I really don't want to get ahead of myself....but he is technically the highest ranking Capcom character in that exit poll. I wonder if that will mean anything.
I know it's not a "reasonable" thing to say...but there is definitely a part of me that's telling me this could really be Isaacs moment. If the ballot still has more characters to give.
Flynn.Scifo
Smash Ace
Yes I wanted something that feels different than the usual roster presentation.
JaidynReiman
Smash Hero
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Yeah ever since Skull Kid I think Loz has gotten less info. He also seemed to think Heroes vs. Villains was a bigger deal than it was (part of K. Rool's trailer).
Loz got an August Direct (which wasn't hard to predict), but he did get the Heroes vs. Villains thing (actually Rivals, but its easy to mistake it for Heroes vs. Villains) and showing off the menu. I think that's all Loz got about this Direct. He's NEVER gotten a character leak before.
Now he's back to speculating, so I think he lost his source. So we probably won't be seeing anymore leaks from Loz. No clue on Vergeben. He definitely did not get K. Rool, and his most recent info about Pokemon and Isabelle is sketchy. Isabelle as an Echo is an easy guess as is.
EDIT: Just to make a couple more notes.
Not only did Vergeben not get K. Rool, he ACTIVELY asked about K. Rool left and right.
On another note, Loz heavily speculated K. Rool was in based on the Heroes vs. Villains thing. Ironically, he had no idea that was basically just for K. Rool's trailer. He was trying to gather evidence about K. Rool from other sources, but he didn't know that K. Rool was in for sure.
Loz got an August Direct (which wasn't hard to predict), but he did get the Heroes vs. Villains thing (actually Rivals, but its easy to mistake it for Heroes vs. Villains) and showing off the menu. I think that's all Loz got about this Direct. He's NEVER gotten a character leak before.
Now he's back to speculating, so I think he lost his source. So we probably won't be seeing anymore leaks from Loz. No clue on Vergeben. He definitely did not get K. Rool, and his most recent info about Pokemon and Isabelle is sketchy. Isabelle as an Echo is an easy guess as is.
I think Pokemon is actually more likely to not get a new character because they essentially have 9 non-Echo characters now. I'm leaning on Zelda being a likely candidate for an Echo (Impa).
EDIT: Just to make a couple more notes.
Not only did Vergeben not get K. Rool, he ACTIVELY asked about K. Rool left and right.
On another note, Loz heavily speculated K. Rool was in based on the Heroes vs. Villains thing. Ironically, he had no idea that was basically just for K. Rool's trailer. He was trying to gather evidence about K. Rool from other sources, but he didn't know that K. Rool was in for sure.
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Billybae10K
Smash Ace
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No problem, glad you enjoyed the video. Vergeben is certainly the only leaker I find credible at the moment, but it seems like news is just slow all around. Hopefully we get "something" soon.
Pwnapplez
Smash Ace
Billybae10K
what about the OG Neogaf leaker? Before the second post?Yes, Loz does not know the final roaster, if he did, I feel like he would leak it at this point. No leaker knows nothing.
No Isaac news is good Isaac news, we have a screenshot to give us hope. Camelot angle or not, it got people talking crazy about GS.
DasVergeben replied to the Isaac DasVergeben 4chan leak thread on gamefaqs but it's deleted so I can't see what he said.
just remember, if he is not in the base roaster, he has a high chance of DLC.
They stopped working on DLC for Wii U since Ultimate started in 2015
Huanchi
Smash Apprentice
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Cant believe that people still think that Vergeben or loz can tell the truth when it comes to this game... just because they were the first "leakers" doesn't include that they are true. Vergeben was wrong on DK rep and tried to do damage control afterwards and people ACTUALLY BELIEVE him. every other leaker who would do this would get dabbed on. But not with Vergeben. loz on the other hand is an anti Isaac trashtalker who speculates on the roster like we all do. Ofc i also can make a leak and say my "sources" told me that blablablabla... all he has done was leaking the e3 couse he (or a buddy of him) got their hands on the demo. and that does not make him credible at all
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JaidynReiman
Smash Hero
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Oof! I had no idea that Loz said the new mode would be shown off. Sakurai did tease it, but didn't show it or even say that it was the main method of unlocking characters.
I also do think its likely that Skull Kid was fake info that was passed on to him.
I'm sorry but I have to completely disagree here. DLC will probably be recent popular characters to include, or big name third-parties. Unless they do a "DLC ballot" I don't think Isaac is likely as DLC. His best chance is base roster.
The "no DK reps" thing was made in a PM to Loz and he had no intention of posting it publicly until he had "vetted" it.
However, I have found that Vergeben likes to post anything he hears. I definitely have issues with that.
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Tetiro
Smash Ace
That is pretty damning evidence against him. And someone like K Rool would be too difficult to keep under wraps from a leaker. Especially if Ridley supposedly got leaked
Pwnapplez
Smash Ace
I disagree, I don't think popularity would be a major factor.
Look at the demand for new characters, it's the forbidden 4 Skull Kid, Geno, Bandana Dee and Isaac.
Geno, I feel will be the last character shown off.
Skull Kid is up in the air, I am leaning more to a boss.
Now Bandana Dee and Isaac
In Japan Bandana Dee was the most popular, (Japan just likes cute things)
In US/EU Isaac is one of the ones next in line.
Don't forget, DLC does not have a new ballot to go off of, they are going to go off the last source of data they have.
Isaac is super popular now, after Geno gets in, people are going to find a new character to support.
Only 3rd party character I see making it in now is Banjo.
Plus fighter games have season passes now with new fighters coming out all the time.
Isaac will be in the game one way or another. The demand is there.
DLC is my bet
Flynn.Scifo
Smash Ace
Tbh DLC for smash 4 wasn't really exciting, mostly returning characters, a fire emblem one nobody asked for to promote the next game, questionable Cloud in a nintendo roster. Only Boyonetta stands out in my opinion. Maybe due to the fact they wanted to keep bigger stuff for Ultimate.
Pwnapplez
Smash Ace
Eh, Cloud was pretty groundbreaking for smash, I would say that was way way way more exciting then Bayonetta.
We know the ballot was rigged.
Idk, some days I am more hopeful for Isaac then others. Today I feel like he is going to be in smash one way or another.
Tetiro
Smash Ace
It's interesting as I did some statistics running for number of potentially brand new characters (no echoes) and it does lead me to the 3-4 number.
So far the ballot has clearly been used. I could see Chrom being wanted by Japan but Dark Samus is obviously a US/EU request.
Just looking at the top 3 characters who have yet to be deconfirmed, I'd say Isaac is the most likely followed by Geno. Bandana Dee has the popularity but I am still unconvinced about moveset potential.
Regardless, Isaac whether Smash players like it or not is now the frontrunner. He has the popularity. He has the moveset. His franchise has been made in Japan. Then you have his lack of appearance. His appearance in a previous Smash game as more than a trophy. No need for Nintendo to secure rights.
I think Isaac being deconfirmed as any representation in Smash will be controversial this time considering.
Billybae10K
Smash Ace
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I haven't personally made any videos or looked into the Neogaf leak myself. My gut reaction is it's false, especially with the guy making multiple accounts and posting more and more stuff, which makes it hard to tell if it's actually the same person leaking the info, or just someone pretending to be the original leaker. It's complicated.
Yes, Loz does not know the final roaster, if he did, I feel like he would leak it at this point. No leaker knows nothing.
No Isaac news is good Isaac news, we have a screenshot to give us hope. Camelot angle or not, it got people talking crazy about GS.
DasVergeben replied to the Isaac DasVergeben 4chan leak thread on gamefaqs but it's deleted so I can't see what he said.
just remember, if he is not in the base roaster, he has a high chance of DLC.
They stopped working on DLC for Wii U since Ultimate started in 2015
That's a little bit harsh, don't you think. Vergeben didn't state to the public that there were no DK reps. His exact message to Loz was:
"I also heard Donkey Kong isn't getting any new reps on day 1/at launch, but that still seems pretty crazy if that part is actually true and they passed on King K. Rool for now."
Vergeben clearly wasn't sure in the source who gave him that information and wanted to check with another credible leaker on whether that was the case or not. It's like fact-checking an essay. He didn't do any damage control because he didn't have anything to prove - It was a DM and he didn't release that information to the public - Loz did.
As for loz, just because he doesn't feel Isaac is going to be in the game based on speculation, that is no reason to call him an "Anti Isaac trashtalker." That just comes across as extremely rude on your end, man.
LasermasterA
Smash Champion
Well, in the second game, similar to how you see traces of Saturos and party in the first game, you hear about Isaac and company as you travel the world. In various towns and everything, you hear about Isaac's party having visited and asking about Felix and co. being either one step behind or one step ahead, missing each other. I think in some town near the Kibombo Village, some NPC even gives you a message that Isaac wants to talk to you (related to why Felix is still lighting the lighthouses and the quest for Lemuria). Felix and friends deliberately avoid Isaac's party till Jupiter Lighthouse.
Yea, it's kinda odd. I loved Dark Dawn as well. Sure, it had all those annoying aspects, but it still had the Golden Sun charm in bunches!
The music, the graphics, the puzzles, and the atmosphere, it was still all Golden Sun! I loved every moment of it, even though I faced a game breaking bug 20 hours into the game. I had to restart the game asap, and go all the way to the point where I previously got stuck, but I still had lots of fun replaying right then and there.
Dark Dawn was a great game in its own right, it was just judged too harshly for not being as polished as the first Golden Sun >.<
Quetzal77
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If Isaac does make it in I really hope it would result in a Golden Sun remaster/remake collection for the Switch with GS and TLA. Ideally keeping the same graphics style but obviously polished up to HD. RPGs are huge sellers on Switch and if these games got to be so popular on GBA I can't see them not being a top seller on the Switch as well. The only thing is I doubt Camelot could handle such a project anymore, so I wonder if it would be a collaboration between them and another RPG developer or if Nintendo would just hand over the project to another developer entirely.
And then for Dark Dawn I'm torn on whether I would prefer a remake that addresses the biggest complaints of the original or a reboot post-TLA. I didn't hate the game but it was just totally not what anyone wanted/expected from a sequel, I think.
And then for Dark Dawn I'm torn on whether I would prefer a remake that addresses the biggest complaints of the original or a reboot post-TLA. I didn't hate the game but it was just totally not what anyone wanted/expected from a sequel, I think.
Tetiro
Smash Ace
What about Grezzo? If anyone has proven their worth with remakes and RPG like games, it is them. They did the Majora's Mask remake after all
Huanchi
Smash Apprentice
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It may sound rude, thats not my intention though. I just want people to wake up and stop listening two people where both say "the other one lies"
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Tetiro
Smash Ace
Huanchi has a point. A lot of these leakers have been known to conflict with each other to get their point across. Loz proved that.
I'd say everyone should make their own opinions as that is the one that matters.
I'd say everyone should make their own opinions as that is the one that matters.
Frosty Pops
Smash Journeyman
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Brawl honest sublines.
Pit- Like he fell from heaven...to make us hate fighting him.
Meta Knight- Nintendo's serial killer.
Pokemon Trainer- Slave driver tossing his balls around.
Ike- His sword is not compensating for anything.
Snake- Hey why is there a box in the middle of the stage?
King DeDeDe- That is one fat penguin.
Wolf- Marks his territory.
Lucario- Seeing auras...might be the shrooms.
Sonic- Still on crack.
Wario- Stole all Sonics rings!!!
Toon Link- Not as cool as young link.
ROB- Lets make an obscure system into a character cause why the f*** not!?
Olimar- Got hungry and ate his pikmin.
Lucas- I didn't know ness was a blonde under that hat.
Zero Suit Samus- Only comes out if you move it up and down...the control pad you perverts.
Pit- Like he fell from heaven...to make us hate fighting him.
Meta Knight- Nintendo's serial killer.
Pokemon Trainer- Slave driver tossing his balls around.
Ike- His sword is not compensating for anything.
Snake- Hey why is there a box in the middle of the stage?
King DeDeDe- That is one fat penguin.
Wolf- Marks his territory.
Lucario- Seeing auras...might be the shrooms.
Sonic- Still on crack.
Wario- Stole all Sonics rings!!!
Toon Link- Not as cool as young link.
ROB- Lets make an obscure system into a character cause why the f*** not!?
Olimar- Got hungry and ate his pikmin.
Lucas- I didn't know ness was a blonde under that hat.
Zero Suit Samus- Only comes out if you move it up and down...the control pad you perverts.
Tetiro
Smash Ace
Heh. That's pretty funny.
Metocles
Smash Journeyman
Had to catch up with all the pages, I've got to say it feels like a full time gig. Not to mention everyone has great information to bring to the table.
I, for one, feel that Isaac is going to happen this time around. The difference in Ultimate rather than in Sm4sh or even Brawl is that there is an engine to run on this time around for some decent fuel for conjecture. In the previous iterations of the Smash games, if you take a look at the newcomers, you could definitely see trends appearing and there were too many spots for characters that needed to be filled. How could Isaac contend against Diddy Kong and Wario in Brawl? or the recency and relevance push clearly set in place for Sm4sh? Not to mention... there was nothing really pointing towards Isaac being noticeable other than an AT... an AT that ultimately got snatched away like our hearts.
This time, all of that is out of the way. We know two things for certain which is the main things that lead me toward the Isaac conclusion. 'Everyone is here' and the Smash Ballot. A corollary is in the title of the game: 'Ultimate'. It's certainly appearing that that's the case... Over 900 songs, at least 103 stages, every playable character we've ever had. I'm also fully expecting that we'll get every game mode that smash has ever had (with maybe the exception of the board the platforms, race to the finish and target smash). Definitely All-Star mode, Event mode, Master and Crazy Orders and Home Run. You can't claim to be ultimate without that kind of thing going on, after all.
Now, put it all together in your mind while focusing on Isaac. Golden Sun is not an unsuccessful Nintendo franchise. To all of us here, you can't claim that everyone is here if Isaac isn't in here in the first place. After all, it's not as if Isaac is a flavor of the month popularity pick. Isaac as a character choice goes way back - even to the post Melee days. Yes, perhaps Brawl was too early, but he was definitely in lists even back then. Never really falling out of a top 10 in all-time perspective. For the Smash community, this list as I've noticed it, particularly between post-Brawl until now, has basically looked like Mewtwo, Roy, Wolf, Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, Geno in no particular order. Most of the other characters popularity tend to fluctuate wildly either being a flavor-of-the-month, recency or another similar factor. (Please note that I am not attempting to bash any other character in saying this, simply generalizing)
Most of these characters have now been realized in this latest game. Everyone except Isaac and Geno. I'll leave Geno aside to focus on Isaac. He's been in the game before and he's 1st party. We know the ballot matters in Ultimate and at the time the ballot was taken; while we've never been given specific numbers, Isaac was definitely not low. Something interesting to note about Isaac is how much he dominates specific character polling. In just about any poll where you can choose one and only one character, many other characters fade away leaving Isaac pretty close to the top. I believe that Dojo Exit poll 100%. Even if the numbers are bad, the statistics pooled together over a larger population are not going to fluctuate too wildly.
I never had hope like this before because these people were never selected for this specific dodgeball team before. The people being the 'Irrelevant Group' and the dodgeball team being a smash game. I fully expect both Isaac and Geno (unless something goes horribly wrong with the copyrights) because other than the Inklings, the only characters being chosen are from the 'Irrelevant Group'. If Isaac is passed over again it just wouldn't make sense anymore. It would be like asking you to pick 5 names out of a hat that had 5 names in it.
I, for one, feel that Isaac is going to happen this time around. The difference in Ultimate rather than in Sm4sh or even Brawl is that there is an engine to run on this time around for some decent fuel for conjecture. In the previous iterations of the Smash games, if you take a look at the newcomers, you could definitely see trends appearing and there were too many spots for characters that needed to be filled. How could Isaac contend against Diddy Kong and Wario in Brawl? or the recency and relevance push clearly set in place for Sm4sh? Not to mention... there was nothing really pointing towards Isaac being noticeable other than an AT... an AT that ultimately got snatched away like our hearts.
This time, all of that is out of the way. We know two things for certain which is the main things that lead me toward the Isaac conclusion. 'Everyone is here' and the Smash Ballot. A corollary is in the title of the game: 'Ultimate'. It's certainly appearing that that's the case... Over 900 songs, at least 103 stages, every playable character we've ever had. I'm also fully expecting that we'll get every game mode that smash has ever had (with maybe the exception of the board the platforms, race to the finish and target smash). Definitely All-Star mode, Event mode, Master and Crazy Orders and Home Run. You can't claim to be ultimate without that kind of thing going on, after all.
Now, put it all together in your mind while focusing on Isaac. Golden Sun is not an unsuccessful Nintendo franchise. To all of us here, you can't claim that everyone is here if Isaac isn't in here in the first place. After all, it's not as if Isaac is a flavor of the month popularity pick. Isaac as a character choice goes way back - even to the post Melee days. Yes, perhaps Brawl was too early, but he was definitely in lists even back then. Never really falling out of a top 10 in all-time perspective. For the Smash community, this list as I've noticed it, particularly between post-Brawl until now, has basically looked like Mewtwo, Roy, Wolf, Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, Geno in no particular order. Most of the other characters popularity tend to fluctuate wildly either being a flavor-of-the-month, recency or another similar factor. (Please note that I am not attempting to bash any other character in saying this, simply generalizing)
Most of these characters have now been realized in this latest game. Everyone except Isaac and Geno. I'll leave Geno aside to focus on Isaac. He's been in the game before and he's 1st party. We know the ballot matters in Ultimate and at the time the ballot was taken; while we've never been given specific numbers, Isaac was definitely not low. Something interesting to note about Isaac is how much he dominates specific character polling. In just about any poll where you can choose one and only one character, many other characters fade away leaving Isaac pretty close to the top. I believe that Dojo Exit poll 100%. Even if the numbers are bad, the statistics pooled together over a larger population are not going to fluctuate too wildly.
I never had hope like this before because these people were never selected for this specific dodgeball team before. The people being the 'Irrelevant Group' and the dodgeball team being a smash game. I fully expect both Isaac and Geno (unless something goes horribly wrong with the copyrights) because other than the Inklings, the only characters being chosen are from the 'Irrelevant Group'. If Isaac is passed over again it just wouldn't make sense anymore. It would be like asking you to pick 5 names out of a hat that had 5 names in it.
Tetiro
Smash Ace
Man you do not realize how much I want to Like your post more than once
Well thought out! It is definitely looking like Isaac will be in at long last.
I think the only other missing character Banjo-Kazooie who (although lesser popular) have also been around since the Melee/Brawl days
Baddies are back
Smash Apprentice
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I just want to fast forward a month to get more news
Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
I think most people feel that way.
It's probably only made more extreme by the fact that some prominent characters are now out of the way. (Ridley, K Rool, Ashley, Shovel Knight etc) Not to mention the tweet.
Whenever it happens the next reveal is going to feel crazy, since it seems like the first reveal we're going into where it actually feels like it could happen.
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Pwnapplez
Smash Ace
Just think of terms of who is left.
Isaac, Geno, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee
Bandana Dee makes the most sense, it would fill out the Kirby squad. I don't care if he is in or not in.
Now you have Skull Kid, HW showed he can do stuff, but is he a boss or is he a fighter?
Regarding leaks, idk what Loz knows. Could he be a treehouse member?
Geno, he has been the highest demand since Melee. Out of all the things people can react to who would break the internet? Geno.
Isaac, has such a crazy demand.
Look I am hopeful, there are 4 people we want. 3 of them are first party.
'Everyone is here' Sakurai wants to make this the ultimate smash.
Plus we know we will get DLC
So stay positive,
Just like KMDP said
Isaac might get in Smash. Stay positive and keep talking about Isaac. If a screenshot is enough to make the fanbase build up hype for Isaac anything is possible.
Don't lose hope.
Like I said, they would have shown him off as an AT in the last direct I feel
True Blue Warrior
Smash Hero
Re-posting my support list so that it doesn't get lost.
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Tetiro
Smash Ace
That's so true. Up until last week we all thought that Ridley and Everyone Was Here were going to be the big shock and surprise for Smash. That Direct not only gave us more but it bashed the door down on Sakurai's rulebook. It is a scary time now!
I think all of us here will be just praying that he returns in some form