Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[walugurl]

I feel like Waluigi is a bit more likely, but his lack of potential Fighter Pass content hurts him.

I find it ridiculous when people say this.

 

[FlawedAI]

I find it ridiculous when people say this.

I know you think that. And while I personally think there's enough to put together a Waluigi fighter pass, it would certainly take more digging than an Isaac fighter pass. If we were to get a one-off bonus fighter after the pass (think Plant or Corrin), Waluigi comes to mind right away.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, I don't get why people seem to think it's not a non-issue. What, are they going to turn down a character they otherwise would be fully behind because their spirits come from a game that already has content in Smash? People don't buy the character for the spirits, the supporting content is modelled around the character, not all aspects are of equal importance.

Moreover, how is a series like Mario (or any existing series with a halfway plausible character) out of content to include? A character like Waluigi would come with content primarily or exclusively from the spin-offs as well, which is a portion of the series that is notoriously underrepresented in comparison. And he could take from like three different sub-series: Kart, Party, and sports. The latter itself having further subseries. There's so much to work with.

 

[SonicLink125]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

What a perfect outcome this would be, right Adepts?

Honestly, I still think Isaac has a chance. To say that he doesn't is ludicrous. He has a lot going for him, believe it or not, but sadly, it's not a guarantee. I am prepared for him not getting in, but I will not stop supporting our Golden Boy until he gets to raise the Sun in Smash once and for all!

 

[ZelDan]

Eh, at the end of the day, there is content from Mario spinoff titles they could add with Waluigi, and thus he could have a fighter pack made for him. So he can't really be discounted if ATs promotions are a thing.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Technically not every single Mario song or possible spirit is in Smash, but I feel like an Isaac challenger pack's contents would be more...top of the barrel, you know? Like, an Isaac challenger pack would allow Isaac's battle theme to make its Smash debut, but a Waluigi challenger pack couldn't do the same with almost any World 1-1 theme. Does that make sense?

 

[SirCamp]

At this point I'm more just hoping we actually see the series make a come back. Not gonna get my hopes up for either, but that feels more likely to me than Isaac getting into Ultimate at this point.

 

[N3ON]

Technically not every single Mario song or possible spirit is in Smash, but I feel like an Isaac challenger pack's contents would be more...top of the barrel, you know? Like, an Isaac challenger pack would allow Isaac's battle theme to make its Smash debut, but a Waluigi challenger pack couldn't do the same with almost any World 1-1 theme. Does that make sense?

That's... true, the GS music would be basically the forefront of that series' selection, but at the same time, I guarantee you more people are going to be familiar with Coconut Mall or Baby Park than anything from Golden Sun.

 

[Kalaam]

If Byleth was made while 3H was in developpment, would be funny if Isaac was the same (and so kept for last) so Sakurai could have more reference material xD

 

[Monue]

So, here's a question.

Did Advanced Wars have any kind of trademark renewal or anything to indicate it could get remake? After Golf was revealed I've personally lost faith in the whole trademark thing, and I'm not sure where everyone in the community is at with it anymore. But, in theory, wouldn't the same thing have happened to Advanced Wars since it essentially got the treatment we hoped Golden Sun was/is getting, and it's from the same era?

Was there anything to indicate Advanced Wars was getting a remake/remaster/whatever, if we're to look back?

 

[N3ON]

So, here's a question.

Did Advanced Wars have any kind of trademark renewal or anything to indicate it could get remake? After Golf was revealed I've personally lost faith in the whole trademark thing, and I'm not sure where everyone in the community is at with it anymore. But, in theory, wouldn't the same thing have happened to Advanced Wars since it essentially got the treatment we hoped Golden Sun was/is getting, and it's from the same era?

Was there anything to indicate Advanced Wars was getting a remake/remaster/whatever, if we're to look back?

Yeah, the trademark thing really doesn't carry the significance people think it does, since dozens of comparable ones were filed within the same 2018 timeframe as GS, ranging from Nintendo series that will obviously continue to those like Disaster Day of Crisis and Elite Beat Agents which will probably never see new iterations ever. People just focused on the GS one and either didn't check to see what else was filed, or just ignored the other stuff.

 

[Monue]

Yeah, the trademark thing really doesn't carry the significance people think it does, since dozens of comparable ones were filed within the same 2018 timeframe as GS, ranging from Nintendo series that will obviously continue to those like Disaster Day of Crisis and Elite Beat Agents which will probably never see new iterations ever. People just focused on the GS one and either didn't check to see what else was filed, or just ignored the other stuff.

I recall you mentioning that at the time. I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt back then, even fully believe it, perhaps sentiment fueled by hope, and the certainty of its champions at the time. I bring it up now out of curiosity more than anything, and only in relation to the news about Advanced Wars.

I just wanted to be sure there wasn't a "paper trail" for Advanced Wars, as it were, so I could put the whole concept of "trademarks as potential leaks", or whatever you want to call it, to rest in my mind.

 

[Nazyrus]

Yeah, the trademark thing really doesn't carry the significance people think it does, since dozens of comparable ones were filed within the same 2018 timeframe as GS, ranging from Nintendo series that will obviously continue to those like Disaster Day of Crisis and Elite Beat Agents which will probably never see new iterations ever. People just focused on the GS one and either didn't check to see what else was filed, or just ignored the other stuff.

Funny you say people just ignored the other trademarks and such… but here you are doing that, ignoring details about such topic.

First of (and very importantly), Disaster Day of Crisis and Elite Beat Agents were renewals, not new trademarks, so naturally you are not seeing anything from them. Renewals never mean anything other than keeping the IP protected by the owner company.

Second of, here is what you are ignoring… all the trademarks that have been "new" (because again you can't renew a trademark years in advance, only within a 6 month window, which you can literally read about in the website I shared long ago about trademarks in Japan specifically), have actually been for something. And no, they don't have to manifest in the same year. Neo TWEWY and Ghost n Goblins were announced last year, meanwhile there was a new Advance Wars one as well, but that one was announced now. So really this GS one, which is not a renewal (because that's legally and factually impossible to even be the case) doesn't have to be manifested in the same year it gets approved or the year afterwards.

If anything, paying attention to trademarks is what has made us make sense of this at this point. There is no reason to conclude that Golden Sun's new trademark hasn't meant anything when every other new one for other IPs has. You just have to actually spot when a trademark is a renewal, and when it's not. And sadly it's not easy in every case, because trademark databases only give so much information. But if you know for a fact that trademarks can only be renewed in a window of 6 months from expiration of the trademark, then you already know for a fact that in 2018 there was no way the Golden Sun trademark was a renewal leading into nothing, because the trademark actually expires in 2021, years away from which said new trademark appeared.

The only thing we were wrong to assume is that Golf wasn't gonna happen because we didn't see one for that, but that doesn't change the fact that the NEW trademarks for games have been manifesting periodically in different times so far without exception. Any that hasn't manifested yet after their approval, just means it hasn't been announced yet, you can't conlude that they won't manifest at all ever… in fact you can, by setting yourself a deadline of when you think a trademark stops mattering at all, which is a stupid thing to do of course, because as history itself has just proven, trademarks manifest into announcements in different ranges of time after their approvals. Some haven't happened yet, some have already. Just keep waiting.

If you want a more reasonable time frame to actually "give up" on the NEW golden sun trademark from 2018 that got approved in 2020, maybe give up on it when we see Camelot not doing Golden Sun after having made Golf and Tennis?… I will gladly accept the trademark means nothing if they do something else entirely after Super Rush (which is unlikely considering all they have been doing so far in terms of full games (not collabs) for 2 decades are golf games, tennis games, and golden sun games, and their quota per console for sport games has been 1 golf game and 1 tennis game consistently through both decades). So just wait and see what they do next before concluding anything about the NEW trademark yet you are getting ahead of yourself just because you expect them to manifest sooner than we thought. Specially now that Advance Wars was remade, I would seriously suggest to wait to see what's next from Camelot now that Golf and Tennis are both out of the way on the Switch and Camelot has to make something more while we are still far from ending the life cycle of the Switch.

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

Didn't see Tekken coming! Last fighter could be anything but i'm of the opinion that this pass peaked with Steve and Sephiroth. So I'm thinking the last one will be rather tempered third party, like Hayabusa; or a first party. Since a lot of develoeprs can be ticked off if we assume there's not more than one from the same company in the pass.

I've been going down a list of characters from different series and genres and it's getting pretty narrow. I'm leaving Isaac in contention as the most likely JRPG character left that's not Pokémon, but there's still some Platformers it could go to.

Or it could just be Waluigi, because that would be funny.

 

[N3ON]

Funny you say people just ignored the other trademarks and such… but here you are doing that, ignoring details about such topic.

First of (and very importantly), Disaster Day of Crisis and Elite Beat Agents were renewals, not new trademarks, so naturally you are not seeing anything from them. Renewals never mean anything other than keeping the IP protected by the owner company.

Second of, here is what you are ignoring… all the trademarks that have been "new" (because again you can't renew a trademark years in advance, only within a 6 month window, which you can literally read about in the website I shared long ago about trademarks in Japan specifically), have actually been for something. And no, they don't have to manifest in the same year. Neo TWEWY and Ghost n Goblins were announced last year, meanwhile there was a new Advance Wars one as well, but that one was announced now. So really this GS one, which is not a renewal (because that's legally and factually impossible to even be the case) doesn't have to be manifested in the same year it gets approved or the year afterwards.

If anything, paying attention to trademarks is what has made us make sense of this at this point. There is no reason to conclude that Golden Sun's new trademark hasn't meant anything when every other new one for other IPs has. You just have to actually spot when a trademark is a renewal, and when it's not. And sadly it's not easy in every case, because trademark databases only give so much information. But if you know for a fact that trademarks can only be renewed in a window of 6 months from expiration of the trademark, then you already know for a fact that in 2018 there was no way the Golden Sun trademark was a renewal leading into nothing, because the trademark actually expires in 2021, years away from which said new trademark appeared.

The only thing we were wrong to assume is that Golf wasn't gonna happen because we didn't see one for that, but that doesn't change the fact that the NEW trademarks for games have been manifesting periodically in different times so far without exception. Any that hasn't manifested yet after their approval, just means it hasn't been announced yet, you can't conlude that they won't manifest at all ever… in fact you can, by setting yourself a deadline of when you think a trademark stops mattering at all, which is a stupid thing to do of course, because as history itself has just proven, trademarks manifest into announcements in different ranges of time after their approvals. Some haven't happened yet, some have already. Just keep waiting.

If you want a more reasonable time frame to actually "give up" on the NEW golden sun trademark from 2018 that got approved in 2020, maybe give up on it when we see Camelot not doing Golden Sun after having made Golf and Tennis?… I will gladly accept the trademark means nothing if they do something else entirely after Super Rush (which is unlikely considering all they have been doing so far for 2 decades are golf games, tennis games, and golden sun games, and their quota per console for sport games has been 1 golf game and 1 tennis game consistently through both decades). So just wait and see what they do next before concluding anything about the NEW trademark yet you are getting ahead of yourself just because you expect them to manifest sooner than we thought. Specially now that Advance Wars was remade, I would seriously suggest to wait to see what's next from Camelot now that Golf and Tennis are both out of the way on the Switch and Camelot has to make something more while we are still far from ending the life cycle of the Switch.

They are new trademarks. Don't take my word for it, check the links.

It's not technically a renewal, no. It is a new trademark. But I don't see how it's indicative of more than Nintendo retaining their ownership considering you'll find the same new trademarks filed for series from everything from Wii Play to Wrecking Crew to Sin & Punishment to freaking Elite Beat Agents the same year GS filed for its new trademark. Even Wii Music got a new trademark. Wii Music.

The trademark laws changed since many of those original trademarks were filed. Maybe they made new trademarks to correspond to the new laws, or the new regions in which they were applying the trademark. I'm not sure, but they are all new trademarks. Different application numbers, different registration numbers, timing that often doesn't relate to an anniversary. From what I can glean, the points used to prove the GS trademark is new apply to all of these as well.

I mean, you think we're going to get a new Wii Play? A new Elite Beat Agents? A new Disaster: Day of Crisis? (yes, that one was filed too)

I'd love to get new titles in many of the series that received new trademarks in 2018. S&P, Starfy, Rhythm Heaven, Advance Wars, Star Fox, especially Golden Sun. But I'm not seeing where the difference is here, from a legal perspective.

 

[Gioka]

I definitely feel some sense of renewed hope after seeing Advance Wars coming back, as other's have pointed, it doesn't even have to be handled only by Camelot, as IS are not the ones handling AW directly. I hope the trend of bringing back series continues, especially the GBA ones as seen on E3

So, here's a question.

Did Advanced Wars have any kind of trademark renewal or anything to indicate it could get remake? After Golf was revealed I've personally lost faith in the whole trademark thing, and I'm not sure where everyone in the community is at with it anymore. But, in theory, wouldn't the same thing have happened to Advanced Wars since it essentially got the treatment we hoped Golden Sun was/is getting, and it's from the same era?

Was there anything to indicate Advanced Wars was getting a remake/remaster/whatever, if we're to look back?

Yes, it did. Back in 2018, along with a Style Savvy one.

https://japanesenintendo.wordpress.com/2018/12/24/advance-wars-trademark-nintendo-co-ltd-have/

As pointed above, that doesn't mean all of those trademarks will end up seeing/meaning something, but since you are asking about this particular case, yes, Advance Wars had one.
Aside from the Trademark, what I feel better about is that they seem to be listening to some fan demand, seeing how E3 had Metroid Dread, WarioWare, Advance Wars, Cruisn'... In other times those wouldn't have been considered E3 titles, and also a lot of those are from the GBA era, so, I feel there is hope (also, Camelot wouldn't have any more sports to develop after Golf is finished, unless Superstars happens. Or it could follow Advance Wars' lead and be developed by a different studio if it is a remaster/remake/reboot)

 

[Nazyrus]

As pointed above, that doesn't mean all of those trademarks will end up seeing/meaning something, but since you are asking about this particular case, yes, Advance Wars had one.

And as I insist, the ones that end meaning nothing are the renewals, not the new ones. People just need to start paying attention at the fact that there is a difference in trademarks out there and spotting that difference in each case is crucial. People like to say that trademarks end meaning nothing when they are not even aware they are talking about renewal ones only, lol. So far all the new trademarks are either announced or still waiting to be announced, depending on where the development of said games is at right now, or when the companies are scheduling such titles to release. We just gotta wait and see, and not conclude things without knowing if we are talking about a renewal or an actual new TM.

Aside from the Trademark, what I feel better about is that they seem to be listening to some fan demand, seeing how E3 had Metroid Dread, WarioWare, Advance Wars, Cruisn'... In other times those wouldn't have been considered E3 titles, and also a lot of those are from the GBA era, so, I feel there is hope (also, Camelot wouldn't have any more sports to develop after Golf is finished, unless Superstars happens. Or it could follow Advance Wars' lead and be developed by a different studio if it is a remaster/remake/reboot)

Agreed. Honestly the clear amount of attention to sequels to GBA series is the best thing that could be happening for us. Apparently now there is a rating in Australia for a "Castlevania Advance Collection"?… The love just keeps coming. I wonder when will they announce said collection… Let's just keep pushing and asking for Golden Sun. There's no reason why we should fee like we won't be heard when Advance Wars fans have finally been listened to. We never had this attention before, I think it's totally fair to have hope now unlike before when most people said they were tired of being burned by who knows what.

We actually have something to look forward to with Nintendo's attention on titles from that handheld, and just hope it doesn't stop here! It is now when we need to be even louder than we have already been so far, about our demand for GS's return.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Aside from the Trademark, what I feel better about is that they seem to be listening to some fan demand, seeing how E3 had Metroid Dread, WarioWare, Advance Wars, Cruisn'... In other times those wouldn't have been considered E3 titles, and also a lot of those are from the GBA era, so, I feel there is hope (also, Camelot wouldn't have any more sports to develop after Golf is finished, unless Superstars happens. Or it could follow Advance Wars' lead and be developed by a different studio if it is a remaster/remake/reboot)

There's definitely a lot of GBA love in these recent years. Plus we also got a re-release of the Mega Man Zero franchise last year for some extra GBA love.

The reason for all of this happening is simple, the generation that grew up on GBA games is now in their twenties, has disposable income, and are reminiscing of their past memories on gaming, which makes them prime costumers for GBA-related games. It's the same reason the early 2000's had a lot of late 70's and early 80's franchises. Popularity polynomial denotes that after a cooldown period, a product will become popular via nostalgia once again.

 

[SPEN18]

E3 had Metroid Dread, WarioWare, Advance Wars, Cruisn'... In other times those wouldn't have been considered E3 titles

Eh, I feel like it isn't so telling that these titles were shown at E3, which typically has smaller announcement sprinkled between the big ones.
What is telling is that these are literally the games that Nintendo is counting on to carry its second half of 2021 (as far as we know, at least).

 

[Malkior7]

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

A Castlevania Advanced Collection was apparently leaked.

More GBA titles coming back is a win for Golden Sun.

 

[Kalaam]

Since Golden Sun always appears in the Top Games of the GBA along with all of those that are coming back (usually being next to, if not above, things like Aria of Sorrow, Metroid Fusion, even some of the Pokemon Titles) if all of those come back it would make no sense for Golden Sun not to.

 

[N3ON]

I'm going to elaborate on the renewal/new trademark situation for clarification and future reference, because this point keeps arising.

They are indeed new trademarks, not renewals. All of them. Golden Sun, Wii Music, all of them. At least, all the ones to which I've referred. So far all the evidence that they are renewals seem to be people saying "they are renewals", which just... isn't the case. I provided links showing that they are not renewals, which went unacknowledged. And yet people take umbrage when I say the proof gets ignored.

So let's start with the Golden Sun trademark, which we all agree is new.
Here's the new one, filed in 2018:

Source

Here's the original, filed in 2001, and renewed in 2012, with the next expiration in 2022, next year:

Source

Different application numbers, different registration numbers, different dates. Different pages in the trademark database, and one has the indication it has been previously renewed. They're different trademarks. This we can agree on, yes?

So let's look at one of the ones I've claimed is new, which has been disputed: Disaster Day of Crisis.

Here's the disputed new trademark.

Source

Does it have any information about being renewed? No. Its dates are even very similar to the Golden Sun trademark. Now, let's look at the original DDoC trademark.

Source

Take a look. A different registration number, a different application number, and proof that it had been renewed the year prior to the new trademark. So this is the renewal, and the above one is, indeed, new.

Let's go further. I'll collapse this example for the sake of space, but let's look at Wii Music, a title that almost certainly won't return, and parallels the above examples.

Spoiler: Wii Music

Old/renewed:

Source
New:

Source

Here are some more:
Wrecking Crew Old/New
Wario Land Old/New
Pilotwings Old/New
Nintendogs Old/New
Excitebike Old/New
Ice Climber Old/New
Dr. Mario Old/New

All of the new ones were filed in 2018. There are even more you can find from 2018 that lack the prior application section, indicative of a new trademark, such as Star Fox, Metroid, Elite Beat Agents, Wii Play, Sin & Punishment, WarioWare, Style Savvy, Advance Wars, Last Story, Wave Race, Endless Ocean, etc. Check for yourself. I know there's another database which people have used as well, and feel free to corroborate it on that one.

Not only are the examples I raised not renewals, but it wouldn't even make sense for all of them to be renewals, because, as Nazyrus pointed out, renewals apparently need to be filed within six months of its expiration. Think about not just the disproportionate amount of titles seemingly needed to be renewed in 2018 alone, but how many of these titles didn't align chronologically with their presumable expiration. The Wii Music trademark was filed in 2006. 2018 doesn't line up. In 2018, The Last Story wouldn't have even been a decade old. It came out in 2011.

These are new trademarks. And there are countless. Legitimately, I haven't found them all. And to that end, it's flawed to lean on them as signs of tangible intent and impending release. Some will receive new titles and some won't (at least not in the given timeframe, even with it being very generous), and the trademark won't be a measure of which. I can only guess as to why we got so many new trademarks in 2018, but I can, with some certainty, say that a good many of them won't produce a new title in the foreseeable future. I mean, are we really expecting a new Wii Music?

You're truly better off dismissing this trademark argument from the case for Golden Sun. It doesn't benefit that series any more than it benefits any of these other ones. It's just the one people focused on because of the nature of the support; it's selective vision.

If you're going to rebuke a claim with derision, you'd better at least have your facts right. Otherwise it's just bluster. That hasn't been the strong suit around here lately, and it's only going to generate mockery and alienate those outside the fanbase.

 

[Kalaam]

This is terrific work.

While I aggree that a lot are likely to not have new games (Wii Music is particularly odd as you pointed out), I fail to see why those trademarks would be even filed if there is not intention of attempting something with them (which may be cancelled before any announcement).

 

[Nazyrus]

Spoiler: Non GS trademarks mentioned above, now properly explained by me

• Wrecking Crew we actually got something, we've covered this before a couple of times in this thread already. Its final name of what ended releasing is Arcade Archives vs. Wrecking Crew, in May 2020. The trademark appeared in 2018, and the last trademark was in 2013, therefore it wasn't due to renewal, because trademarks last 10 years and they are only renewable in a window of 6 months prior to expiration. 10 years obviously had not passed yet for it to be a renewal, and we DID get something out of it.

• Wario Land was due to a renewal, the last entry was in 2008 and the renewed trademark appeared in 2018 (10 years is what they last if you have researched about trademarks), which is when we saw that renewal appear. There wasn't any reason to expect Wario Land. We knew it was a renewal.

• The latest entry of Pilotwings was Pilotwings Resort, back in 2011. The trademark of that game was filed in 2010 (a year prior its latest release basically) and the new trademark appeared in late 2018, which has yet to manifest into something just like GS and a few others (again, as I said before, not all the NEW trademarks manifest into an announcement the same year others finally got an announcement, keep that in mind). The old one as I just mentioned, from 2010, got renewed last year in 2020, 10 exact years as expected.

So whatever that 2018 one is, it's most likely unrelated to the old one that got renewed last year of its latest entry in the series. We have to wait and see if something happens for it in the future. As I've kept saying, we know for a fact at this point that NEW trademarks can manifest into announcements at different given times, not simultaneously ( it makes no sense to expect all games end development at the same time, lol) depending on how far in development the games are and when Nintendo plans and schedules them to come out.


• Nintendogs is a weird situation. The 3 games that came out on Nintendo DS (two released in 2005 and one in 2006) have their respective original trademarks within that same year of their releases, but there is also a trademark in 2008 filed in Japan that I’m unable to confirm for which game it was for, as trademark databases are very limited with their super non specific names such as just “Nintendogs” and not clarifying if it’s best friends, Dalmatians, or whatever…

But the point is that there was one in 2008, just before Nintendogs + Cats released in 2010. That one from 2008 is most likely the one that got renewed in 2018, 10 exact years afterwards. Meanwhile NIntendogs+Cats original trademark that was in 2010, got renewed last year.

So in the end, there’s nothing really off with Nintendogs either, other than how messy it is to verify which ones are for which title, but that's just how much of a pain in the ass is to check info for trademarks, specially when they don't specify full names sometimes.

But the point is that 2018 easily matches to be the renewal of one that was filed in 2008, so no reason to have expected it to mean anything new.

• Excitebike latest trademark to exist before the 2018 one, was back in 2010, it doesn't match the 10 year gap of course… But here is what I managed to find out about it with EXTRA research, to try to understand what was going on: It just so happens that the last one from back in 2010 was NEVER renewed in 2020, they didn't pay the renewal fee.

This confirms that the 2010 one that was due to renewal in 10 years was just abandoned, as they never paid that fee that was due. Instead, what they did was to create a new one entirely in 2018, which most likely was to replace the old one that they just decided to let die instead (for whatever reason they had). This is a unique case of a new trademark that is just a replacement of an old one that was let to expire / was abandoned. This is nothing like the GS one, where the old one and the new one still exist separately without the old one being abandoned at all, so don't even bother comparing them lol.

• Ice climber is similar to Wrecking crew. You saw a trademark with just the basic name (which happens all the time, even with new zelda trademarks as well, or mario one even, such as mario tennis and golf not having their full names trademarked until later after they have been released or announced) and assumed that it was a new trademark that meant nothing, but there is in fact something that was added to the Nintendo Switch with the name Ice Climber. That name is yet another arcade archives game, this one being called Arcade Archives Ice Climber and it released in February 2019, basically the year after the new trademark appeared in 2018, not surprising as it's a very simple retro game that didn't take long to be developed or modified to be ported on switch, lol. So nothing weird here, new trademark for a game with a new name (hence why it needed a trademark).

• Finally, Dr. Mario. This got a game for Android and iOS in 2019. There was Dr. Mario trademarks both in 2018 and 2019, so it matches the fact that there was something new Dr. Mario related coming .

With that, I have covered and explained all the non GS related trademarks N3ON mentioned above. Nothing off about them, they all matched an explanation to their respective specific situations: actual renewals and not new trademarks; a new trademark to replace one that was being abandoned; and actual new trademarks for things that did come out. This is what you manage to find out when you properly research things, even when it's a pain in the ass, and not conclude things with the first info you find. You gotta crossover info on databases, it's not a fun work, but properly done it leads to actual explanations

Again, just WAIT and see what Camelot does now that Golf and Tennis are out of the way, they have now plenty of years of Switch's life cycle still ahead, they HAVE to make a new game and they already filled their quota of 1 golf 1 tennis game per console. Just wait and see, don't conclude GS's new trademark from 2018 doesn't mean anything just because you haven't seen it manifest yet, some just take longer to manifest, and GS is one I could clearly see why, it's a freaking ambitious project, not a mobile game nor a retro game from the NES, lol. Have some patience, we've waited this long and it paid off for Advance Wars fans (who got a new trademark as well).

Do your research properly regarding those listed games before asking ME to do it, specially when I have already explained some of those games' trademarks listed, many pages ago in previous months or last year, like the wrecking crew one.

Either way I told already people what REALLY matters now these days, which is that now that golf and tennis are out of the wait, we just gotta wait and see what Camelot does next, no reason to conclude things yet, just be patient. See ya all when the next smash reveal happens or something important happens, I barely check smashboards anymore as it is

Keep pushing, supporting and hoping for GS's return, everyone (and just maybe isaac's inclusion…?). We know that the only way to succeed is to keep asking for it, we've seen it happen now with other series . Doing the opposite and being negative won't get you results!

 

[Diddy Kong]

If this keeps going, at the very least a few of you here could start a company that specializes in trademarks licensing if we don't get a new Golden Sun. Golden Sun Trademark Licencing™️, has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?

Honestly am quite damn optimistic after seeing Advance Wars return. I expect a same exact sort of situation for Golden Sun, a remake of the first two games in one package.

 

[walugurl]

Nazyrus Can you explain what’s up with the Mario sports trademark that was made last year? Just wondering.

 

[clearandsweet]

In the August issue of Nintendo Dream ( ニンドリ ), there is an interview with the Takahashi Bros about Mario Golf.

Tweet in question: https://twitter.com/Nindorikun/status/1406940022314389507

This tweet from someone that read this interview mentions Golden Sun in some capacity. I kind of hate this auto translation, but you get the gist.

https://twitter.com/_saoas/status/1407190407474139137

Here's a link to the site for this month's issue, doesn't look like they have the article on the website. https://www.ndw.jp/nd2108-327/

We should make an effort to get this issue and see what they say about Golden Sun. If anyone's near a Japanese bookstore, get out there and grab a screenshot of the start of the interview.

I would also LOVE to know if they say anything about the pandemic/why this game took three years to make.

Edit: both Amazon.jp and Yodobashi have kindle ebook versions: https://www.yodobashi.com/product/100000086601357447/

Nintendo DREAM 2021年 08 月号 [雑誌] |本 | 通販 | Amazon

AmazonでのNintendo DREAM 2021年 08 月号 [雑誌]。アマゾンならポイント還元本が多数。作品ほか、お急ぎ便対象商品は当日お届けも可能。またNintendo DREAM 2021年 08 月号 [雑誌]もアマゾン配送商品なら通常配送無料。

www.amazon.co.jp

I must sleep now but if nobody else does I can look into buying it tomorrow.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Genuine curiosity: now that we're down to our last character in Ultimate, does anyone here think it will be Isaac? Unfortunately any optimism I had earlier in FP2 is long gone, but with how much this last Direct felt like a revival of Gamecube/GBA-era Nintendo, it's also an oddly hopeful moment for fans of those systems.

Anything is possible. To me, like FlawedAI said, ending with a long requested first party is perfectly coherent. Isaac is not that interesting to the whole Smash community (it will continue to spam Crash), so the community could see him as a bit low-key; but of course, from our point of view it's perfect. Yes, to me it is still possible.
But, in the end, I'm expecting something way way more disappointing, like Porky, Bandana Waddle Dee, or a Pokémon, so a nth character for an already represented franchise...

While I aggree that a lot are likely to not have new games (Wii Music is particularly odd as you pointed out), I fail to see why those trademarks would be even filed if there is not intention of attempting something with them (which may be cancelled before any announcement).

To create confusion!

 

[Kalaam]

To create confusion!

This feels a bit cheap, especially since we aren't even supposed to be aware of them. (Tho I guess it's been years that people have been monitoring those things so this kind of precautions could arise. Still seems weird, as it also spoils that some franchises won't have new games.)

In the August issue of Nintendo Dream ( ニンドリ ), there is an interview with the Takahashi Bros about Mario Golf.



Tweet in question: https://twitter.com/Nindorikun/status/1406940022314389507

This tweet from someone that read this interview mentions Golden Sun in some capacity. I kind of hate this auto translation, but you get the gist.

https://twitter.com/_saoas/status/1407190407474139137

Here's a link to the site for this month's issue, doesn't look like they have the article on the website. https://www.ndw.jp/nd2108-327/

We should make an effort to get this issue and see what they say about Golden Sun. If anyone's near a Japanese bookstore, get out there and grab a screenshot of the start of the interview.

I would also LOVE to know if they say anything about the pandemic/why this game took three years to make.

Edit: both Amazon.jp and Yodobashi have kindle ebook versions: https://www.yodobashi.com/product/100000086601357447/

Nintendo DREAM 2021年 08 月号 [雑誌] |本 | 通販 | Amazon

AmazonでのNintendo DREAM 2021年 08 月号 [雑誌]。アマゾンならポイント還元本が多数。作品ほか、お急ぎ便対象商品は当日お届けも可能。またNintendo DREAM 2021年 08 月号 [雑誌]もアマゾン配送商品なら通常配送無料。

www.amazon.co.jp

I must sleep now but if nobody else does I can look into buying it tomorrow.

That's very interessting, can only hope someone like pushdustin could translate it.

 

[SonicLink125]

Spoiler: Non GS trademarks mentioned above, now properly explained by me

• Wrecking Crew we actually got something, we've covered this before a couple of times in this thread already. Its final name of what ended releasing is Arcade Archives vs. Wrecking Crew, in May 2020. The trademark appeared in 2018, and the last trademark was in 2013, therefore it wasn't due to renewal, because trademarks last 10 years and they are only renewable in a window of 6 months prior to expiration. 10 years obviously had not passed yet for it to be a renewal, and we DID get something out of it.

• Wario Land was due to a renewal, the last entry was in 2008 and the renewed trademark appeared in 2018 (10 years is what they last if you have researched about trademarks), which is when we saw that renewal appear. There wasn't any reason to expect Wario Land. We knew it was a renewal.

• The latest entry of Pilotwings was Pilotwings Resort, back in 2011. The trademark of that game was filed in 2010 (a year prior its latest release basically) and the new trademark appeared in late 2018, which has yet to manifest into something just like GS and a few others (again, as I said before, not all the NEW trademarks manifest into an announcement the same year others finally got an announcement, keep that in mind). The old one as I just mentioned, from 2010, got renewed last year in 2020, 10 exact years as expected.
View attachment 320189So whatever that 2018 one is, it's most likely unrelated to the old one that got renewed last year of its latest entry in the series. We have to wait and see if something happens for it in the future. As I've kept saying, we know for a fact at this point that NEW trademarks can manifest into announcements at different given times, not simultaneously ( it makes no sense to expect all games end development at the same time, lol) depending on how far in development the games are and when Nintendo plans and schedules them to come out.


• Nintendogs is a weird situation. The 3 games that came out on Nintendo DS (two released in 2005 and one in 2006) have their respective original trademarks within that same year of their releases, but there is also a trademark in 2008 filed in Japan that I’m unable to confirm for which game it was for, as trademark databases are very limited with their super non specific names such as just “Nintendogs” and not clarifying if it’s best friends, Dalmatians, or whatever…
View attachment 320191
But the point is that there was one in 2008, just before Nintendogs + Cats released in 2010. That one from 2008 is most likely the one that got renewed in 2018, 10 exact years afterwards. Meanwhile NIntendogs+Cats original trademark that was in 2010, got renewed last year.

So in the end, there’s nothing really off with Nintendogs either, other than how messy it is to verify which ones are for which title, but that's just how much of a pain in the ass is to check info for trademarks, specially when they don't specify full names sometimes.

But the point is that 2018 easily matches to be the renewal of one that was filed in 2008, so no reason to have expected it to mean anything new.

• Excitebike latest trademark to exist before the 2018 one, was back in 2010, it doesn't match the 10 year gap of course… But here is what I managed to find out about it with EXTRA research, to try to understand what was going on: It just so happens that the last one from back in 2010 was NEVER renewed in 2020, they didn't pay the renewal fee.
View attachment 320192
This confirms that the 2010 one that was due to renewal in 10 years was just abandoned, as they never paid that fee that was due. Instead, what they did was to create a new one entirely in 2018, which most likely was to replace the old one that they just decided to let die instead (for whatever reason they had). This is a unique case of a new trademark that is just a replacement of an old one that was let to expire / was abandoned. This is nothing like the GS one, where the old one and the new one still exist separately without the old one being abandoned at all, so don't even bother comparing them lol.

• Ice climber is similar to Wrecking crew. You saw a trademark with just the basic name (which happens all the time, even with new zelda trademarks as well, or mario one even, such as mario tennis and golf not having their full names trademarked until later after they have been released or announced) and assumed that it was a new trademark that meant nothing, but there is in fact something that was added to the Nintendo Switch with the name Ice Climber. That name is yet another arcade archives game, this one being called Arcade Archives Ice Climber and it released in February 2019, basically the year after the new trademark appeared in 2018, not surprising as it's a very simple retro game that didn't take long to be developed or modified to be ported on switch, lol. So nothing weird here, new trademark for a game with a new name (hence why it needed a trademark).

• Finally, Dr. Mario. This got a game for Android and iOS in 2019. There was Dr. Mario trademarks both in 2018 and 2019, so it matches the fact that there was something new Dr. Mario related coming .

With that, I have covered and explained all the non GS related trademarks N3ON mentioned above. Nothing off about them, they all matched an explanation to their respective specific situations: actual renewals and not new trademarks; a new trademark to replace one that was being abandoned; and actual new trademarks for things that did come out. This is what you manage to find out when you properly research things, even when it's a pain in the ass, and not conclude things with the first info you find. You gotta crossover info on databases, it's not a fun work, but properly done it leads to actual explanations

Again, just WAIT and see what Camelot does now that Golf and Tennis are out of the way, they have now plenty of years of Switch's life cycle still ahead, they HAVE to make a new game and they already filled their quota of 1 golf 1 tennis game per console. Just wait and see, don't conclude GS's new trademark from 2018 doesn't mean anything just because you haven't seen it manifest yet, some just take longer to manifest, and GS is one I could clearly see why, it's a freaking ambitious project, not a mobile game nor a retro game from the NES, lol. Have some patience, we've waited this long and it paid off for Advance Wars fans (who got a new trademark as well).

Do your research properly regarding those listed games before asking ME to do it, specially when I have already explained some of those games' trademarks listed, many pages ago in previous months or last year, like the wrecking crew one.

Either way I told already people what REALLY matters now these days, which is that now that golf and tennis are out of the wait, we just gotta wait and see what Camelot does next, no reason to conclude things yet, just be patient. See ya all when the next smash reveal happens or something important happens, I barely check smashboards anymore as it is

Keep pushing, supporting and hoping for GS's return, everyone (and just maybe isaac's inclusion…?). We know that the only way to succeed is to keep asking for it, we've seen it happen now with other series . Doing the opposite and being negative won't get you results!

Now THIS is great! Explanations on a lot of these New and Renewal Trademarks here in full.
And with Tennis and Golf done, Golden Sun IS happening. No doubt about it! How soon? Don't know. All I know is is that we just need to keep pushing harder for it. Here's to Golden Sun's big 20th Anniversary in less than 2 months!

 

[Gioka]

This is the best time for Golden Sun to come back, I have no doubts about that in my mind. Especially after all the noise we as community have made over the past 3-4 years, I don't think that could go unnoticed by Nintendo. It is just a matter of time.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Half a DLC pass of RPGs and still not Isaac. More than a little peeved, here.

 

[MrPerson0]

In the August issue of Nintendo Dream ( ニンドリ ), there is an interview with the Takahashi Bros about Mario Golf.

View attachment 320246

Tweet in question: https://twitter.com/Nindorikun/status/1406940022314389507

This tweet from someone that read this interview mentions Golden Sun in some capacity. I kind of hate this auto translation, but you get the gist.

View attachment 320247

https://twitter.com/_saoas/status/1407190407474139137

Here's a link to the site for this month's issue, doesn't look like they have the article on the website. https://www.ndw.jp/nd2108-327/

We should make an effort to get this issue and see what they say about Golden Sun. If anyone's near a Japanese bookstore, get out there and grab a screenshot of the start of the interview.

I would also LOVE to know if they say anything about the pandemic/why this game took three years to make.

Edit: both Amazon.jp and Yodobashi have kindle ebook versions: https://www.yodobashi.com/product/100000086601357447/

Nintendo DREAM 2021年 08 月号 [雑誌] |本 | 通販 | Amazon

AmazonでのNintendo DREAM 2021年 08 月号 [雑誌]。アマゾンならポイント還元本が多数。作品ほか、お急ぎ便対象商品は当日お届けも可能。またNintendo DREAM 2021年 08 月号 [雑誌]もアマゾン配送商品なら通常配送無料。

www.amazon.co.jp

I must sleep now but if nobody else does I can look into buying it tomorrow.

I'm actually very interested in the translation of this interview as well! I ended up getting the Kindle version. Does anyone know of any translators who would be willing to translate eight pages of content? I asked PushDustin to see if he would be willing to, but that is probably unlikely.

 

[Kalaam]

From what we translated they basically talk about their philosophy when developping new games in a serie.
They do not think of them simply as sequels, but more as rivals that have to try and beat the previous game in that serie, be it with Golf, Tennis or especially Golden Sun.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Congratulations on the 19th anniversary of the lost era of the Golden Sun and Jasmine sequel I'll be waiting for you for the rest of my life ...! #GoldenSun

 

[Sentinel07]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Congratulations on the 19th anniversary of the lost era of the Golden Sun and Jasmine sequel I'll be waiting for you for the rest of my life ...! #GoldenSun

That picture is beautiful. :D

 

[FlawedAI]

Lloyd is gone, as we expected. I was not expecting Dante, Dragonborn, or Shantae, so that's interesting.

And FP11 is the last one for sure! The way I see it, there are five big options: Ryu Hayabusa, an SMT character, a Pokemon, Waluigi, or Isaac, with a small chance of another surprise. I'm hoping it's at least an Assist Trophy character, I'd love to see that "fan rule" nuked off the face of the planet.

 

[Xenigma]

After today's Mii Fighter deconfirmation blitz, I'm increasingly thinking Isaac is going to stay a Mii Fighter this go-around. The upgrade's not impossible, of course, if a new Golden Sun is closer than expected, but seeing the latest four fan-favorites relegated to costume status, I'm increasingly thankful we have a Mii Fighter costume to play with at all. Sometimes easy to forget how much we got in Ultimate just because we fell short of our goal.

If I had to guess, FP11 still has three "obvious" candidates: Crash, Hayabusa, and Master Chief. Depending on how much information Sakurai had when selecting FP2 characters, Andy might also be on the table, but that's probably wishful thinking. I'd also include Waluigi, but I remain skeptical he would get a full Fighters Pass-style DLC, and we've gotten zero indication of a potential "bonus" character. In any case, I hope we're not waiting too long for our final reveal. A Fall Direct, perhaps?

 

[Gioka]

After today's Mii Fighter deconfirmation blitz, I'm increasingly thinking Isaac is going to stay a Mii Fighter this go-around. The upgrade's not impossible, of course, if a new Golden Sun is closer than expected, but seeing the latest four fan-favorites relegated to costume status, I'm increasingly thankful we have a Mii Fighter costume to play with at all. Sometimes easy to forget how much we got in Ultimate just because we fell short of our goal.

If I had to guess, FP11 still has three "obvious" candidates: Crash, Hayabusa, and Master Chief. Depending on how much information Sakurai had when selecting FP2 characters, Andy might also be on the table, but that's probably wishful thinking. I'd also include Waluigi, but I remain skeptical he would get a full Fighters Pass-style DLC, and we've gotten zero indication of a potential "bonus" character. In any case, I hope we're not waiting too long for our final reveal. A Fall Direct, perhaps?

Given how Sakurai worded about the wait, either fall direct or we go all the way to TGA tbh.

I feel confused, slightly. Smash never ends with a bang (or what the community thinks a bang is) which leads me to think a first party character is the most likely option for our final character (and considering Bandai Namco took this long to get theirs, it makes me feel they saved the in house characters towards the end to honor the rest of their deals first.) this makes me think Waluigi or Isaac get upgraded to break another rule before we wrap it up or a promotional character a la Corrin (Andy, a Metroid rep, another Pokémon, something like that).

On the other hand, if we pass the fall/September direct with no announcement and it goes to TGA, I wouldn't think the first party character (unless it's Waluigi I guess) would be as fit for that event, so maybe we would get a final third party character after all, SMT V protag, Master Chief, Ryu Hayabusa, Doom guy, maybe?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Smash never ends with a bang (or what the community thinks a bang is)

"Boy I sure am glad we're getting these crazy big third parties instead of lame **** like Hat Goomba!"
"So you're saying...any Nintendo character would be a 'disappointing finale'?"
"Uhhhhh ackshually if the first parties were characters like Dixie Kong, Isaac, and Bandana Dee that would TOTALLY break the internet more than Steve! Yeah!"