Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Sabrewulf238]

I think there's a good chance he made it into the top 20, at least after joke characters and "infeasible" characters were removed.

 

[LasermasterA]

I can imagine Isaac's CGI reveal looking like something out of a Avatar: The Last Airbender (a show I think has a Golden Sun feel to it) scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23x00x4WcHw

Oh boi Toph, one of the best TLA characters. TLA and Golden Sun definitely have a similar vibe, considering adepts and benders share similarities and both of the series go for the 4 basic elements theme. Also how the sequels (Korra for TLA, and DD for GS1/2) were not as well received, and had hiccups due to the time leap.

That aside, an Isaac reveal like that would be amazing. I think most people would agree that Isaac would benefit the most from having a moveset that is primarily Earth psynergy with bits of sword action.

 

[Organization XIII]

Hi everyone I am a huge Golden Sun and Isaac fan and would love for him to be in Smash. Golden Sun is a great series and certainly deserves a bigger presence in Smash. I know a lot of people are pessimistic after Smash 4 but I'm still hopeful he can make it.

 

[Xenigma]

That aside, an Isaac reveal like that would be amazing. I think most people would agree that Isaac would benefit the most from having a moveset that is primarily Earth psynergy with bits of sword action.

Isaac, to me, feels like a strong on-disc, non-secret newcomer. He makes a vocal minority very happy, but assuming a decent gameplay trailer, he should look cool enough that even those who have never heard of the game will want to try him. Perhaps the best comparisons would be Palutena and Shulk from Sm4sh: even if you don't know who they are, their trailers make you want to play them by virtue of being cool characters. By comparison, being a secret newcomer makes him an oddball because he may not be well known among the modern Nintendo fanbase, and he's a weird fit for DLC because, again, he's not necessarily well known and thus may not sell well.

 

[Violenceman]

I think one thing that everyone can agree on, Isaac supporter or not, is that his removal as an AT was whack. Even if he was never destined to become playable, he was one of the most popular ATs, and GS was one of the more notable non-playable series remaining. I can only wonder what the reasoning was.

It's my belief (well, hope mostly) that Isaac was cut as an Assist Trophy because he was on the short list for DLC and they wanted to leave the door open should he get in. He just happened to get beat out at the last minute by a new character (like Corrin). It would also explain why a Mii Costume was never planned as well as why there were no Golden Sun Trophies.

That's the big one for me; the fact that we got no Golden Sun trophies. We got a handheld version of Smash which had unique trophies that specifically geared toward handheld games and no Golden Sun? Even though there is Golden Sun music in the game? Not even for Isaac who played a semi-important role in the previous game?

But it makes a lot more sense if Isaac was planned as potential DLC; as they would then include an Isaac Trophy and possibly (as seen with Bayonetta) additional series trophies. That makes the most sense to me, anyway. Moreso then Golden Sun getting two songs (including a new one) but no trophies, even on 3DS.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Wouldn't His Unique use of Venus Psynergy(Rock/Ground attacks & Grass attacks) and Swordfighting, as well as Psynergy Hands would fit the 2nd Qualifying factor of Sakurai's 4 Qualifying Factors for Smash Characters; aka The Character is Unique?!!

 

[Accursed]

Wouldn't His Unique use of Venus Psynergy(Rock/Ground attacks & Grass attacks) and Swordfighting, as well as Psynergy Hands would fit the 2nd Qualifying factor of Sakurai's 4 Qualifying Factors for Smash Characters; aka The Character is Unique?!!

Absolutely. Isaac is one of the most unique characters out there.

And since we're on the topic of movesets and moveset potential, does anyone else have their own? I'd like to hear your ideas.

 

[Hydewell]

Another problem is Saki, the AT from Sin&Punishment.

I mean, he was in the game despite not being in the last entry (Sin&Punishment:Star Successor). The series is also dead. Why did Saki returned as AT when other characters didn't despite being in the same situation?

Well, we won't probably know.

 

[DogManStar]

Isaac has a lot of potential to be one of the most unique characters in the game. There's so much they could do with djinn, psynergy, and summons.

 

[Hydewell]

If someone is interested, one guy did a survey of the most wanted unannounced franchises for Switch in Reddit switch, which is fairly popular and mix the casual and the "hardcore" fans. He nearly got 4.000 votes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...fter_nearly_4000_votes_the_results_are_ready/

Golden Sun ranked 16th, which is a good result, I think.

 

[Ura]

If someone is interested, one guy did a survey of the most wanted unannounced franchises for Switch in Reddit switch, which is fairly popular and mix the casual and the "hardcore" fans. He nearly got 4.000 votes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...fter_nearly_4000_votes_the_results_are_ready/

Golden Sun ranked 16th, which is a good result, I think.

Yeah, my post even made it on his magazine which is pretty cool. I talked about how a new Golden Sun would take it to heights the series has never seen before. Which is true I feel.

 

[Bassoonist]

It's my belief (well, hope mostly) that Isaac was cut as an Assist Trophy because he was on the short list for DLC and they wanted to leave the door open should he get in. He just happened to get beat out at the last minute by a new character (like Corrin). It would also explain why a Mii Costume was never planned as well as why there were no Golden Sun Trophies.

That's the big one for me; the fact that we got no Golden Sun trophies. We got a handheld version of Smash which had unique trophies that specifically geared toward handheld games and no Golden Sun? Even though there is Golden Sun music in the game? Not even for Isaac who played a semi-important role in the previous game?

But it makes a lot more sense if Isaac was planned as potential DLC; as they would then include an Isaac Trophy and possibly (as seen with Bayonetta) additional series trophies. That makes the most sense to me, anyway. Moreso then Golden Sun getting two songs (including a new one) but no trophies, even on 3DS.

I'm not sure I'm following. Sure, it makes sense that if Isaac had been developed as a character that his AT wasn't developed. However, the lack of other content isn't making any sense to me. Even if Isaac didn't finish as a character, why would that prevent the addition of some trophies and other content?

With only a song added and so much other content not added/missing, I just can't look at it so positively. It does feel like a big oddity, but the lack of non-Isaac content just feels very weird to me if we follow the logic of Isaac going to get a character promotion, but something stopping that from happening. We're left with a big gaping hole of GS content here for some reason, but still have the addition of a Dark Dawn song. As I said it's all very weird, but once the DLC was done and over, I no longer could look at it so optimistically. I fear that GS has just been demoted, and that's it. It's a real darn shame that a franchise like Kid Icarus can get two characters just for having one game in between Brawl and SSB4 (all with Sakurai stating he has no intention to continue that series any further), but GS gets the same (one new game in between Brawl and SSB4) and only gets content removed. All I see is bias.

I want to hope there's a chance for Isaac in the new SSB... But after SSB4, I just don't feel like it's likely at all anymore. And Camelot working on Mario Tennis Aces just crushes any hope of a surprise Golden Sun 4 announcement coinciding with an Isaac in SSB5 reveal before the release. =(

 

[Deleted member]

We can still hope for Isaac to appear as a guest character in Mario Tennis Aces, right?
god damn it i made myself sad again

 

[N3ON]

Fire Emblem Awakening: 1.79 million WW LTD
Fire Emblem Fates (both versions): 1.84 million WW LTD

The source for these numbers are from the link I provided above. So yes, both Awakening and Fates have surpassed the original Golden Sun. Fire Emblem Heroes, the smartphone app, is also making a lot of money, last I've heard. With a Switch spin-off just released and still getting DLC, and a Switch mainline title on the horizon, Fire Emblem is looking real good right now.

With Golden Sun, I feel like the 8 year hiatus after the Lost Age, coupled with Dark Dawn not being a particularly exciting installment amidst many advancements in RPG game design over the years, has hurt the franchise a good deal. One can only hope Nintendo and Camelot see value in trying to revive the IP one day.

Edit: @Lampy Thanks for the heads up. I threw in my two cents.

They have both surpassed Golden Sun. However, for all the fervour and spotlight surrounding those titles, you'd think Golden Sun would be more than just a stone's throw away, for the way its treated. It's also unfair that Golden Sun should have only one title perform sub-par, only one title that didn't exceed one million units, and now the series has been condemned to an unsure future and an eight year dormancy. :/

how well do you guys think isaac in the ballot?

I'd like to think, barring non-video game and joke characters, he's in the top 25. But I've really no clue.

Wouldn't His Unique use of Venus Psynergy(Rock/Ground attacks & Grass attacks) and Swordfighting, as well as Psynergy Hands would fit the 2nd Qualifying factor of Sakurai's 4 Qualifying Factors for Smash Characters; aka The Character is Unique?!!

For sure, more so than most.

Another problem is Saki, the AT from Sin&Punishment.

I mean, he was in the game despite not being in the last entry (Sin&Punishment:Star Successor). The series is also dead. Why did Saki returned as AT when other characters didn't despite being in the same situation?

Well, we won't probably know.

The AT selection and logic process just seems inconsistent, frankly. So I wouldn't attempt to make that much sense of it.

If someone is interested, one guy did a survey of the most wanted unannounced franchises for Switch in Reddit switch, which is fairly popular and mix the casual and the "hardcore" fans. He nearly got 4.000 votes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...fter_nearly_4000_votes_the_results_are_ready/

Golden Sun ranked 16th, which is a good result, I think.

Wow, a lot of work was put into that. And yeah, great to see GS get so much love. 16th out of, what, 200? Bless <3

We can still hope for Isaac to appear as a guest character in Mario Tennis Aces, right?
god damn it i made myself sad again

 

[pupNapoleon]

Oh boi Toph, one of the best TLA characters. TLA and Golden Sun definitely have a similar vibe, considering adepts and benders share similarities and both of the series go for the 4 basic elements theme. Also how the sequels (Korra for TLA, and DD for GS1/2) were not as well received, and had hiccups due to the time leap.

That aside, an Isaac reveal like that would be amazing. I think most people would agree that Isaac would benefit the most from having a moveset that is primarily Earth psynergy with bits of sword action.

Ya know... people can say Korra was not well received all they want.
There is a reason it made bigger headlines, and it was not just the gay almost-kiss.
...it's the better written series. The characters are more complex than ever possible with the child leads of the original.

And that's saying something, because the original is many notches above most children's media.
Even calling it children's seems defaming, because it was extremely meritable.

 

[DogManStar]

If someone is interested, one guy did a survey of the most wanted unannounced franchises for Switch in Reddit switch, which is fairly popular and mix the casual and the "hardcore" fans. He nearly got 4.000 votes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...fter_nearly_4000_votes_the_results_are_ready/

Golden Sun ranked 16th, which is a good result, I think.

This is a pretty good sign, considering how popular the Nintendo Switch subreddit is. If Golden Sun is still garnering enough attention to place that highly, it's not too far-fetched to think Isaac could have placed well enough in the ballot to get some attention from Sakurai. I hope that's the case!

 

[AwesomeCauliflower68]

Yes Isaac has been one of my most wanted for years now. With the weird treatment (New Remix of a song but Assist trophy was cut) he got in Smash 4 I don't think it's too farfetched to assume he was planned at some point but something happened. He really deserves a spot and I would absolutely love to see him make it this time.

 

[Accursed]

Yes Isaac has been one of my most wanted for years now. With the weird treatment (New Remix of a song but Assist trophy was cut) he got in Smash 4 I don't think it's too farfetched to assume he was planned at some point but something happened. He really deserves a spot and I would absolutely love to see him make it this time.

It wasn't a remix though. It was ripped directly from Dark Dawn.

 

[Ura]

What other tracks go you guys think could fit on each stage?

Like for instnace I think Venus Lighthouse on the Skyloft stage and Doom Dragon could work on the Port Town stage.

 

[Accursed]

What other tracks go you guys think could fit on each stage?

Like for instnace I think Venus Lighthouse on the Skyloft stage and Doom Dragon could work on the Port Town stage.

Golden Sun music on the Golden Sun stage, of course.
/s

But seriously, I want the generic cave music in Great Cave Offensive. The dread you feel when listening to the song perfectly captures the dread you feel when accidentally picking that stage.

 

[Retroend]

maybe sakurai should take over for golden sun and reboot the franchise like he did with kid icarus.

 

[Organization XIII]

maybe sakurai should take over for golden sun and reboot the franchise like he did with kid icarus.

Please no. With Golden Sun's penchant for cliff hangers I'd hate for it to just start over. They should at least resolve what happened after DD before any thoughts of starting over happen.

 

[Dendros]

Yes please. I need an earth magic user in smash. I want all his smashes to be earth magic and all of his specials to be each of the 4 djinn!

 

[N3ON]

Please no. With Golden Sun's penchant for cliff hangers I'd hate for it to just start over. They should at least resolve what happened after DD before any thoughts of starting over happen.

When we don't even know if a future for this series is in the cards, it doesn't seem like a great time to start getting picky with the chronology. At least, imo.

 

[Organization XIII]

When we don't even know if a future for this series is in the cards, it doesn't seem like a great time to start getting picky with the chronology. At least, imo.

That's fair it's just after waiting 8 years for a continuation after TLA and then another 8+ years for another game, it just seems a waste to throw away all those years of waiting for a resolution. Though whether the next game was a reboot or not it would be a day one buy for me.

 

[Ura]

Golden Sun music on the Golden Sun stage, of course.
/s

But seriously, I want the generic cave music in Great Cave Offensive. The dread you feel when listening to the song perfectly captures the dread you feel when accidentally picking that stage.

Lol everyone hates that stage. I only hate it because of that one stupid event where you have to survive while being damaged like hell. Made me rage like a mofo.

 

[DogManStar]

Yes please. I need an earth magic user in smash. I want all his smashes to be earth magic and all of his specials to be each of the 4 djinn!

Yeah we don't really have any characters that can do what Isaac does yet. He could be a really interesting character with all his Venus psynergy.

 

[Dendros]

Issac would just be a better Robbin

 

[Hydewell]

That's fair it's just after waiting 8 years for a continuation after TLA and then another 8+ years for another game, it just seems a waste to throw away all those years of waiting for a resolution. Though whether the next game was a reboot or not it would be a day one buy for me.

Well, I think a remake would be ideal.

Nowadays, Golden Sun is a niche IP. Doing a 4th entry would be a disaster because few people played (and liked) Dark Dawn in comparison to the 1 million of the GBA.

Doing a remake of the GBA games in one would be ideal considering the length of the originals and, also, they could add and change some things in order to make some connections to the 3rd one. And, if the game is a success, they could reutilize the engine to do a sequel with DD and continue the story.

 

[LasermasterA]

Ya know... people can say Korra was not well received all they want.
There is a reason it made bigger headlines, and it was not just the gay almost-kiss.
...it's the better written series. The characters are more complex than ever possible with the child leads of the original.

And that's saying something, because the original is many notches above most children's media.
Even calling it children's seems defaming, because it was extremely meritable.

True, Korra was more ambitious but there were some flaws in the series that really turned me off but this isn't the place to discuss them xD

Mainly my comparison still stands, as Dark Dawn also tried to make the plot more complex (and was technically pretty dark in the last third) but messed up along the way and sold less.

Please no. With Golden Sun's penchant for cliff hangers I'd hate for it to just start over. They should at least resolve what happened after DD before any thoughts of starting over happen.

Well for one we don't even know yet whether our series will continue yet xD

Also, making a 4th entry now would be not the greatest idea since a lot of the people on the current console (Switch) wouldn't have a decent point of entry. So either Camelot would have to spoon feed the story so far to newcomers like how DD tied (which gets old quick) or suffer bad sales since there would be a lower audience.

A remake/remaster would be ideal to create a greater demand for GS4.

Even more ideal would be Isaac in Smash 5, to create demand for remake of GS1/2/3 to create even more demand for GS4

 

[Organization XIII]

Well for one we don't even know yet whether our series will continue yet xD

Also, making a 4th entry now would be not the greatest idea since a lot of the people on the current console (Switch) wouldn't have a decent point of entry. So either Camelot would have to spoon feed the story so far to newcomers like how DD tied (which gets old quick) or suffer bad sales since there would be a lower audience.

A remake/remaster would be ideal to create a greater demand for GS4.

I have no problem with a remake/ remaster, the guy I was responding to was talking about a reboot. If everything was just thrown away after all these years of waiting for a conclusion, it would just feel very bittersweet.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd take a remake if it meant Golden Sun is back.

 

[LasermasterA]

I have no problem with a remake/ remaster, the guy I was responding to was talking about a reboot. If everything was just thrown away after all these years of waiting for a conclusion, it would just feel very bittersweet.

Oh right, my bad.

Yea that'd be awful.

Golden Sun isn't that old and doesn't need a re imagining a la Kid Icarus.

Let's just stick to remasters/remakes/very very soft reboots (essentially remake but with some changes to story, I suppose)

 

[Ura]

I'd take a remake if it meant Golden Sun is back.

Personally I would only want a remake if they're were going to retcon Dark Dawn and focus on Isaac and the 8 adepts for the games that followed.

Issac would just be a better Robbin

Isaac would play nothing like Robin if you played GS before. Literally the only things they do the same is use a sword and magic.

 

[DogManStar]

I would love remakes and remasters first honestly. The first games are easily some of my favorite games ever, and I think introducing Isaac into Smash along with Golden Sun and TLA remakes would be a great way to revive Golden Sun. Plus I do think there are some aspects that could be slightly improved upon with more attention on the series, like the dialogue between characters.

The place to start for sure though would be Isaac in Smash. I really hope they've somehow taken notice of his popularity in the fanbase, like K. Rool or Geno.

 

[Ura]

Yeah tell me about it lol. I could do without the long pieces of dialouge in the game. I already spoke my piece about the Babi scene many times before but that and others should get trimmed down.

Having GS remasters would also help Isaac's chances for Smash Switch and not another GS character.

 

[pupNapoleon]

True, Korra was more ambitious but there were some flaws in the series that really turned me off but this isn't the place to discuss them xD

Mainly my comparison still stands, as Dark Dawn also tried to make the plot more complex (and was technically pretty dark in the last third) but messed up along the way and sold less.

At the same time, Korra shook more of the world.
Not to harp on the fact that it is exceptionally LGBT friendly and was made for Nickelodeon, but that's actually a big deal.

Dark Dawn did not take the same types of creative risks- at least not in my opinion.

I miss Golden Sun and Avatar both, so much.
I hope they both continue.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I would love remakes and remasters first honestly. The first games are easily some of my favorite games ever, and I think introducing Isaac into Smash along with Golden Sun and TLA remakes would be a great way to revive Golden Sun. Plus I do think there are some aspects that could be slightly improved upon with more attention on the series, like the dialogue between characters.

The place to start for sure though would be Isaac in Smash. I really hope they've somehow taken notice of his popularity in the fanbase, like K. Rool or Geno.

It kills me when people compare Geno to other characters.
He is in an oddly uncomfortable situation.
One single game, decades ago, and still third party.
And a third party that has more famous characters.

He is not like any of the characters to whom people compare him. He has miles of more legality in the way.

 

[DogManStar]

It kills me when people compare Geno to other characters.
He is in an oddly uncomfortable situation.
One single game, decades ago, and still third party.
And a third party that has more famous characters.

He is not like any of the characters to whom people compare him. He has miles of more legality in the way.

Geno is definitely in a hugely different situation to K. Rool and Isaac- what I meant in my comparison was that he is a relatively obscure character who still retains a lot of popularity in Smash's fanbase. I remember hearing that Sakurai stated that he was aware of Geno's popularity as a suggestion, and personally I think Geno and K. Rool got costumes because of their popularity in the fanbase. Otherwise, yeah, Geno is definitely in a much more complex situation than Isaac or K. Rool.

 

[Phaazoid]

I remember when smash 4 dropped and Isaac wasn't playable, but his AT had been removed, I thought that it was a very weird choice to just remove his AT and thought that it pointed to him being at least planned as playable at some point, maybe even a DLC option. Was pretty sad when that didn't end up happening.