Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[amageish]

Stop me if y'all have heard this one before, but how about like... a generic lighthouse stage? They all have more or less the same layout up top. Different backgrounds/ aesthetics depending on which lighthouse you're at, with the corresponding colored beacon being lit. We already have a similar situation with the Persona stage.

This is a really cool idea! Probably a bit higher-effort then Mementos, as that stage is more "Persona Visual Design in Stage Form" and less actual location, but it'd still be really cool to see.

Yeah that was Imran. Imran did it that way and Jon wouldn't shut up about Min Min. That's how she leaked, no one else did a thing to leak her lol

Imran definitely did know who it was, as he had already made a claim to knowing who it was before he sent that Tweet. He also knew-but-didn't-directly-name Byleth ~30 minutes before their presentation, tweeting about how people would be salty and making a joke about how Sakurai's 3 fingers could have actually been a hint all along... So, yeah, first-parties do leak, but thus far only really when their upcoming reveal has just been announced...

As for Jon, he had been taking about Min Min for like 6 months before the character was revealed to be from ARMS, so I kind of doubt he was leaking? I think he just got lucky on that one.

 

[Cadillac]

For Jon, I think he just liked Min Min and wanted her.

 

[Kalaam]

Yeah it would be like calling us leakers because we think Isaac has high chances

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Yeah it would be like calling us leakers because we think Isaac has high chances

What if we are? (X-Files theme plays)

 

[Kalaam]

Maybe I am, but you don't believe me

 

[Sabrewulf238]

What if we are? (X-Files theme plays)

Every post I've made in this thread has just been me trying to hint to you guys who the next fighter is.

I give up, none of you even once noticed what I was trying to do.

You need to count all the characters in all of my posts up to this date, then divide that number by the square root of pi, then multiply that number by the amount of times I've included a number (like this: 5) in one of my posts.

Then finally you need to use a cipher to convert that number into text and the next Smash fighter will be revealed to you.

 

[Billybae10K]

Every post I've made in this thread has just been me trying to hint to you guys who the next fighter is.

I give up, none of you even once noticed what I was trying to do.

You need to count all the characters in all of my posts up to this date, then divide that number by the square root of pi, then multiply that number by the amount of times I've included a number (like this: 5) in one of my posts.

Then finally you need to use a cipher to convert that number into text and the next Smash fighter will be revealed to you.

Isaac from the Binding of Isaac, oh my gooooood!

 

[SonicLink125]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

How 2020 will be saved! Haha! This is pretty good!

 

[amageish]

Yeah it would be like calling us leakers because we think Isaac has high chances

The true Smash leak was inside of us all along.

 

[SonicLink125]

The true Smash leak was inside of us all along.

It’s more likely than we think.

Seriously though, Isaac has a high chance to be in this Pass with all thats been happening so far:

•Takahashi Bros finish their development time of Aces in Dec 2017 to work on their next project.

•Brand new GS Trademark applied in Sept 2018.

•From having only two songs (Felix Battle Remix from Brawl and a rip of Weyard from Dark Dawn) in Smash 4 for Golden Sun to a surprising amount of added GS content in Ultimate (AT Isaac’s return revamped, Mii Isaac, 8 Spirits with all classes and Adult Isaac being one of the best spirits, Isaac Icon) but no new music despite all that.
-Note: Motoi Sakuraba composed GS music and was composing music for Smash, but was never asked to add at least one GS song? That’s very weird when you think about it.

•ARMS and Golden Sun are the only two Nintendo IPs to have a lot of content, (AT, Mii, Spirits, Icon), but not get (new) music in the base game. Plus no fighter and stage. DLC says it adds a Fighter, Stage and music. Hmm?

•The disappointment of AT Isaac’s reveal completely shocked Nintendo. Has been confirmed by several people on this. If Nintendo didn’t know Isaac’s demand before, they definitely know now!

•Golden Sunday events and our letters to Nintendo at the end of January 2019 of our demand for Golden Sun’s return and having Isaac in Smash.

•Second Fighter’s Pass decided around Summer 2019. Nintendo approaches Sakurai what characters they want to have added.

•Sakurai has confirmed to know games ahead of time before being announced to make characters. FE: Three Houses is a great example of this for Byleth. Could he have seen the GS HD game already?

•The new GS Trademark is finally approved and finalized in March 2020.

•Dark Dawn gets a Trademark renewal this year. However, we recently discovered that it also got a BRAND NEW Trademark this month. Dark Dawn HD also incoming!

•Min Min from ARMS is added and proves that upgrades are possible. Also finishes giving missing content of a Fighter/Stage/Music to ARMS. Something that Golden Sun lacks too. Could GS get the same treatment?

•At this point, Sakurai must have seen GS HD by now. Isaac (or possibly a different GS character?) can easily be used to promote the new GS game. That would be a smart/wise business decision for Nintendo and would benefit them a lot. Also, it’s possible that FP7 (and possibly FP8) are being held back so that they can be revealed with their game simultaneously in a Direct. Isaac with GS HD for example.

Now, is it a guarantee that Isaac is coming to Smash? Absolutely not. You’d go insane if you think so. However, the possibility is really high given all that has happened and should not be ignored. It would also be Nintendo’s best interest to add Isaac as to help promote GS. They know Smash has that power and they’ve done it before with a lot of the characters already. But there is something that we can expect and that is Golden Sun is definitely coming back. It’s now a matter of “when” and not “if”.

Wow! Wasn’t expecting to write all that.

 

[SharkLord]

It’s more likely than we think.

Seriously though, Isaac has a high chance to be in this Pass with all thats been happening so far:

•Takahashi Bros finish their development time of Aces in Dec 2017 to work on their next project.

•Brand new GS Trademark applied in Sept 2018.

•From having only two songs (Felix Battle Remix from Brawl and a rip of Weyard from Dark Dawn) in Smash 4 for Golden Sun to a surprising amount of added GS content in Ultimate (AT Isaac’s return revamped, Mii Isaac, 8 Spirits with all classes and Adult Isaac being one of the best spirits, Isaac Icon) but no new music despite all that.
-Note: Motoi Sakuraba composed GS music and was composing music for Smash, but was never asked to add at least one GS song? That’s very weird when you think about it.

•ARMS and Golden Sun are the only two Nintendo IPs to have a lot of content, (AT, Mii, Spirits, Icon), but not get (new) music in the base game. Plus no fighter and stage. DLC says it adds a Fighter, Stage and music. Hmm?

•The disappointment of AT Isaac’s reveal completely shocked Nintendo. Has been confirmed by several people on this. If Nintendo didn’t know Isaac’s demand before, they definitely know now!

•Golden Sunday events and our letters to Nintendo at the end of January 2019 of our demand for Golden Sun’s return and having Isaac in Smash.

•Second Fighter’s Pass decided around Summer 2019. Nintendo approaches Sakurai what characters they want to have added.

•Sakurai has confirmed to know games ahead of time before being announced to make characters. FE: Three Houses is a great example of this for Byleth. Could he have seen the GS HD game already?

•The new GS Trademark is finally approved and finalized in March 2020.

•Dark Dawn gets a Trademark renewal this year. However, we recently discovered that it also got a BRAND NEW Trademark this month. Dark Dawn HD also incoming!

•Min Min from ARMS is added and proves that upgrades are possible. Also finishes giving missing content of a Fighter/Stage/Music to ARMS. Something that Golden Sun lacks too. Could GS get the same treatment?

•At this point, Sakurai must have seen GS HD by now. Isaac (or possibly a different GS character?) can easily be used to promote the new GS game. That would be a smart/wise business decision for Nintendo and would benefit them a lot. Also, it’s possible that FP7 (and possibly FP8) are being held back so that they can be revealed with their game simultaneously in a Direct. Isaac with GS HD for example.

Now, is it a guarantee that Isaac is coming to Smash? Absolutely not. You’d go insane if you think so. However, the possibility is really high given all that has happened and should not be ignored. It would also be Nintendo’s best interest to add Isaac as to help promote GS. They know Smash has that power and they’ve done it before with a lot of the characters already. But there is something that we can expect and that is Golden Sun is definitely coming back. It’s now a matter of “when” and not “if”.

Wow! Wasn’t expecting to write all that.

Short version:

• Isaac is very popular, and after the November Direct, Nintendo is aware of it.
• Min Min proves that Spirits are on the table, and Spring Man's presence in the lead-up, coupled with ATs not being mentioned during the reasoning for Min Min's addition, dealt a heavy blow to ATs. It helps that ATs can be disabled when they don't work with the stage very well.
• Golden Sun has had a NEW, non-renewal trademark finalized in March, plus a new trademark for Dark Dawn, which could give Isaac the recency edge and gives him more mileage than just being the first-party Banjo.

 

[Nazyrus]

Tbf I think Nintendo was aware of it since before that November direct huge backlash, most likely thanks to the ballot results, as the new trademark was already beginning to be registered and such. Then having no isaac fighter but still a mii costume was probably a slight sign of temporary compensation, just like Arms did, if we are lucky both series together were intended to be for base but didn't make it back then and even lacked music and spirits that should make sense to have (we know by fact that Arms was that case as of now).

 

[DrakeHavok]

...I hate to be THAT GUY, but I feel it prudent to drop a reminder that even the presumed upcoming Golden Sun game(s) is/are not guaranteed to happen. While the trademarks make it possible, arguably even likely, even freshly filed trademarks don't always bear fruit. I really do want to hope for the future of Golden Sun, in and out of Smash, but there's a fine line between hoping and expecting that we should be careful about crossing, lest we let our expectations get out of hand.

That said, I do think all these trademarks make a new game very likely to happen, and hopefully the timing will finally allow Isaac (or Matthew, or Felix, or even some unknown new protagonist of GS4) to squeeze into Ultimate after all, so fingers crossed.

 

[Nazyrus]

...I hate to be THAT GUY, but I feel it prudent to drop a reminder that even the presumed upcoming Golden Sun game(s) is/are not guaranteed to happen. While the trademarks make it possible, arguably even likely, even freshly filed trademarks don't always bear fruit. I really do want to hope for the future of Golden Sun, in and out of Smash, but there's a fine line between hoping and expecting that we should be careful about crossing, lest we let our expectations get out of hand.

That said, I do think all these trademarks make a new game very likely to happen, and hopefully the timing will finally allow Isaac (or Matthew, or Felix, or even some unknown new protagonist of GS4) to squeeze into Ultimate after all, so fingers crossed.

The trademark ensures a product IS happening. It's no longer a matter of IF, but WHEN. The trademarks don't get approved if they don't get proof of product existing to be sold and protected, it is literally part of the process to prove such product existing. And NoJ isn't wasting money and about 2 years on filing a new trademark (that had to go through refusals twice, meaning they had 2 times to ask for more time to prove that they have a product, otherwise they would have dropped the trademark by then without getting it approved) for a game/series that already has existing trademarks that could be just renewed if they are not intending to do anything new with them.

Smash is another story of course, and whether or not we get Isaac I do not feel it will depend on having a new game at all, as we have krool and banjo to prove that being unnecessary for series without relevancy. If he gets in, it's because Sakurai and Nintendo willed it into existence for its fans.

 

[SharkLord]

The trademark ensures a product IS happening. It's no longer a matter of IF, but WHEN. The trademarks don't get approved if they don't get proof of product existing to be sold and protected, it is literally part of the process to prove such product existing. And NoJ isn't wasting money and about 2 years on filing a new trademark (that had to go through refusals twice) for a game/series that already has existing trademarks that could be just renewed if they are not intending to do anything new with them.

Smash is another story of course, and whether or not we get Isaac I do not feel it will depend on having a new game at all, as we have krool and banjo to prove that being unnecessary for series without relevancy.

Pretty much. Trademarks require the product to be at least in a good spot to go through. If the thing isn't done, it's not getting a trademark.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Isn't it possible that the item the trademark covers could get cancelled though?

 

[SharkLord]

Isn't it possible that the item the trademark covers could get cancelled though?

That's a good question, actually. I don't know exactly how complete the product has to be, but assuming it's mostly complete and is slated to release in the same year, I'd imagine it would be kinda wasteful to just toss it all in the trash when you're that far along. But again, I don't know all the details on that type of stuff, so I can't say for sure.

 

[Nazyrus]

Unlikely in this particular case, it would have been cancelled already, this game has been most likely in development as far back as when the Aces team stopped working on Aces. And again they went through 2 refusals to get this finally accepted, NoJ was serious about this one. If it got approved finally this year's March, i don't see it being cancelled when it's a product already beyond half way of development. Also this is Camelot, they put out one game at a time, they don't spend all these years working on something and then cancel it and not feed their employees families lol, they don't have that luxury that other studios do (studios that keep putting multiple games out I mean), and even less this year and its economy situation heavily affecting Japan. They certainly don't take their longest time ever in their history to develop a game that just ends being cancelled and then have nothing to pay your employees with.

I would only worry if by March of next year it hasn't been announced yet, because by then it will be already one year wasted of the 10 years of life spam trademarks get. That would be worrisome, but then again this pandemic could have affected the development heavily, who knows… That said, this game could easily be 2021 as many of the first party games from Nintendo that most likely got delayed as well. I don't really have much hopes for this year personally lol, Nintendo has done the complete opposite of making me believe they could have a packed end of 2020 at this point… to the point I'm more excited again about who fp7 and fp8 might be rather than being excited for new games… lol

 

[DrakeHavok]

Unlikely in this particular case, it would have been cancelled already, this game has been most likely in development as far back as when the Aces team stopped working on Aces. And again they went through 2 refusals to get this finally accepted, NoJ was serious about this one. If it got approved finally this year's March, i don't see it being cancelled when it's a product already beyond half way of development. Also this is Camelot, they put out one game at a time, they don't spend all these years working on something and then cancel it and not feed their employees families lol, they don't have that luxury that other studios do (studios that keep putting multiple games out I mean), and even less this year and its economy situation heavily affecting Japan. They certainly don't take their longest time ever in their history to develop a game that just ends being cancelled and then have nothing to pay your employees with.

I would only worry if by March of next year it hasn't been announced yet, because by then it will be already one year wasted of the 10 years of life spam trademarks get. That would be worrisome, but then again this pandemic could have affected the development heavily, who knows… That said, this game could easily be 2021 as many of the first party games from Nintendo that most likely got delayed as well. I don't really have much hopes for this year personally lol, Nintendo has done the complete opposite of making me believe they could have a packed end of 2020 at this point… to the point I'm more excited again about who fp7 and fp8 might be rather than being excited for new games… lol

Hmm... well, alrightie. I'm still going to temper my hopes a bit, and I'm certainly not going to expect much to come from the rest of the year, but fingers crossed.
On that note, if we DO get Isaac, or really any other Golden Sun character (I'm not terribly picky), I wonder how he'll play. There are SO many ways to make him work as a fighter (so long as they don't have him use his sword for most of his moves).

 

[jweb23]

With all this news of a new Switch model for early next year, I’m assuming Nintendo is holding off on most of their new/non-port first party titles to all launch around or after the release of the new Switch. It’s frustrating to not hear anything from Nintendo, but there is no way they announce that new Switch model until after the holiday. So now I’m expecting a general direct in January.

And considering the rest of this year, the only first party Nintendo game I’m kind of expecting to see is something Mario related due to the anniversary. But I wouldn’t even be surprised if they hold off on that too.

 

[SharkLord]

Hmm... well, alrightie. I'm still going to temper my hopes a bit, and I'm certainly not going to expect much to come from the rest of the year, but fingers crossed.
On that note, if we DO get Isaac, or really any other Golden Sun character (I'm not terribly picky), I wonder how he'll play. There are SO many ways to make him work as a fighter (so long as they don't have him use his sword for most of his moves).

He'd most likely be a grounded stage control character, being clunky and weak in the air but making up for it with his earthquakes and giant hands.

 

[Nazyrus]

With all this news of a new Switch model for early next year, I’m assuming Nintendo is holding off on most of their new/non-port first party titles to all launch around or after the release of the new Switch. It’s frustrating to not hear anything from Nintendo, but there is no way they announce that new Switch model until after the holiday. So now I’m expecting a general direct in January.

This could very well be it honestly, but if that's the case then i wonder when is that new switch model coming… if it's early 2021 then they still gotta announce whatever big game/games to promote it kinda soon anyway, specially so people who aren't aware of the new model start saving for it too, not just the new games. I don't think there's a current title that would make people want to buy the new model just to play it "better", most people are alright with how the games play as of now, and even with a new model, the ports are already done in a way it probably wouldn't run better anyway. So it's gotta be new games to promote that new model and give people a reason to buy it… hmm well i guess we will see if those rumors of the new model turn out true to begin with.

 

[jweb23]

This could very well be it honestly, but if that's the case then i wonder when is that new switch model coming… if it's early 2021 then they still gotta announce whatever big game/games to promote it kinda soon anyway, specially so people who aren't aware of the new model start saving for it too, not just the new games. I don't think there's a current title that would make people want to buy the new model just to play it "better", most people are alright with how the games play as of now, and even with a new model, the ports are already done in a way it probably wouldn't run better anyway. So it's gotta be new games to promote that new model and give people a reason to buy it… hmm well i guess we will see if those rumors of the new model turn out true to begin with.

I don’t think they are doing this for their first party games. According to many third party devs, it’s not too difficult to create ports of their games for the Switch. However, considering the engine changes and power of the upcoming PS5 and Series X...I think Nintendo is being smart and having a stronger Switch ready for those who do wish to continue playing new and upcoming third party titles on the Switch. No matter what we all know Nintendo’s first party games would run on both the Switch and this rumored Pro version. But think about this...

Imagine how hyped it would be if we get a general direct in January and they announce this rumored Switch Pro. Then they show that Cyberpunk 2077 and other major AAA third party games run flawlessly on it... Personally for me, that Switch Pro would be a day one buy.

This of course assumes everything we are hearing from these insiders is true. Lol

 

[a random user]

Unlikely in this particular case, it would have been cancelled already, this game has been most likely in development as far back as when the Aces team stopped working on Aces. And again they went through 2 refusals to get this finally accepted, NoJ was serious about this one. If it got approved finally this year's March, i don't see it being cancelled when it's a product already beyond half way of development. Also this is Camelot, they put out one game at a time, they don't spend all these years working on something and then cancel it and not feed their employees families lol, they don't have that luxury that other studios do (studios that keep putting multiple games out I mean), and even less this year and its economy situation heavily affecting Japan. They certainly don't take their longest time ever in their history to develop a game that just ends being cancelled and then have nothing to pay your employees with.

I would only worry if by March of next year it hasn't been announced yet, because by then it will be already one year wasted of the 10 years of life spam trademarks get. That would be worrisome, but then again this pandemic could have affected the development heavily, who knows… That said, this game could easily be 2021 as many of the first party games from Nintendo that most likely got delayed as well. I don't really have much hopes for this year personally lol, Nintendo has done the complete opposite of making me believe they could have a packed end of 2020 at this point… to the point I'm more excited again about who fp7 and fp8 might be rather than being excited for new games… lol

I don’t think they are doing this for their first party games. According to many third party devs, it’s not too difficult to create ports of their games for the Switch. However, considering the engine changes and power of the upcoming PS5 and Series X...I think Nintendo is being smart and having a stronger Switch ready for those who do wish to continue playing new and upcoming third party titles on the Switch. No matter what we all know Nintendo’s first party games would run on both the Switch and this rumored Pro version. But think about this...

Imagine how hyped it would be if we get a general direct in January and they announce this rumored Switch Pro. Then they show that Cyberpunk 2077 and other major AAA third party games run flawlessly on it... Personally for me, that Switch Pro would be a day one buy.

This of course assumes everything we are hearing from these insiders is true. Lol

assuming the pro was supposed to come out this year, and was delayed due to difficulty buying the parts(same reason the switch has stock problems), it could explain what happened to doom eternal(originally releasing same day as animal crossing), if it needed the extra power from the pro. Only time will tell if doom eternal is only on the pro, or runs notably better on it

 

[SonicLink125]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Two blond boys in blue! Oh yeah!

The Switch Pro (or whatever it will be called) will be fascinating to see. I’ll definitely be buying one. Especially if there is a Zelda or Golden Sun Edition for it.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I think the trademark needing a product to be in the works is the most interesting part of this. If they couldn't have gotten the trademark without a product to sell.....then it doesn't seem like there are many other reasonable explanations other than a game release being in the works for Golden Sun. I doubt they're going to randomly release Golden Sun plushies.

At this point I am kinda leaning towards remasters being likely...I feel like most of my doubt now is a bit illogical. It feels like it's largely just "oh Golden Sun fans can't have nice things so I won't get my hopes up"

Although I don't think that really says much about Isaacs chances for Smash. It's completely plausible we get these remasters but Isaac still isn't part of the second fighters pass.

 

[Kalaam]

Trademark needs a proof of use. Concept arts and proofs of concepts can be enough.
A trademark with that level of validation pretty much confirm that something Golden Sun is in the works.
However it is true that it doesn't guarantee a new game being released. The project could be cancelled for any number of reasons (staff leaving, too many delays, unsatisfying quality...) and never be announced/released.
2nd however, the new DD trademark is, I think, a good sign. As Nintendo wouldn't apply a new trademark for another golden sun (if it's not the same game) if the one currently in the work wasn't promising.

I do not know how Nintendo works with their trademarks, do they apply ahead of time ? Or once they start production ? If the latter that would mean DD "remake" started developpment and that the other game is pretty much done (either gold and waiting for a sudden release, or just in latter phases like debugging, optimization and final testing/voice acting/translation etc). That would be the ideal scenario, but maybe it's just fairly advanced, and shows good potential. Enough for nintendo to lay the groundwork for the team to work on DD next.

 

[Nazyrus]

I don’t think they are doing this for their first party games. According to many third party devs, it’s not too difficult to create ports of their games for the Switch. However, considering the engine changes and power of the upcoming PS5 and Series X...I think Nintendo is being smart and having a stronger Switch ready for those who do wish to continue playing new and upcoming third party titles on the Switch. No matter what we all know Nintendo’s first party games would run on both the Switch and this rumored Pro version. But think about this...

Imagine how hyped it would be if we get a general direct in January and they announce this rumored Switch Pro. Then they show that Cyberpunk 2077 and other major AAA third party games run flawlessly on it... Personally for me, that Switch Pro would be a day one buy.

This of course assumes everything we are hearing from these insiders is true. Lol

Yeah they definitely need something powerful to keep 3rd party support coming specifically, more than anything, since Nintendo themselves aren't too ambitious with their own games they don't need a powerful machine that much themselves.

I think the trademark needing a product to be in the works is the most interesting part of this. If they couldn't have gotten the trademark without a product to sell.....then it doesn't seem like there are many other reasonable explanations other than a game release being in the works for Golden Sun. I doubt they're going to randomly release Golden Sun plushies.

At this point I am kinda leaning towards remasters being likely...I feel like most of my doubt now is a bit illogical. It feels like it's largely just "oh Golden Sun fans can't have nice things so I won't get my hopes up"

Although I don't think that really says much about Isaacs chances for Smash. It's completely plausible we get these remasters but Isaac still isn't part of the second fighters pass.

lol don't worry, a class 9 doesn't cover plushies … sadly…

Yeah isaac's chances in smash are completely disconnected from what happens outside of it, cause even if we get more games, Nintendo could have still simply given sakurai other characters to put in the game, or sakurai decided to put something else from whatever list he has to choose from. I would love it to be an isabelle type of case, where both game and fighter get announced together, but that's just the wet timeline, and I don't want to burn myself expecting something that amazing lol, even if i wish for it deep inside.

I think our best chance for isaac in smash is the fact that he is potentially in the same situation as Arms was, where both lacked content that should have come when they seemingly intended to compensate those series in base roster. Both lacked music, like Arms had no music at all even, and GS only has 2 tracks that makes NO sense at all with Isaac, literally no isaac battle theme is just mind blowing and nonsensical decision, nor anything from the first game even. The tracks that came were the TLA final boss theme and the overworld of DD iirc, which is like… wut? lol,

Both Arms and GS were lacking spirits that should have made sense to come in base roster alongside with the spirits that DID come. It was particular strange coincidence for both series being shown in the very last direct pre-launch of Ultimate. Now we learned that Arms was intended to be part of the base roster, by Sakurai's words translated by pushdustin.

Arms' situation being fixed now with Min min's inclusion is what makes me hopeful for Isaac personally, and the fact that this pass is described by Sakurai as "opportunities to satisfy fans", and Isaac clearly has always been there high up in demand… let's hope we make it in this final chance, lol.

Trademark needs a proof of use. Concept arts and proofs of concepts can be enough.
A trademark with that level of validation pretty much confirm that something Golden Sun is in the works.
However it is true that it doesn't guarantee a new game being released. The project could be cancelled for any number of reasons (staff leaving, too many delays, unsatisfying quality...) and never be announced/released.
2nd however, the new DD trademark is, I think, a good sign. As Nintendo wouldn't apply a new trademark for another golden sun (if it's not the same game) if the one currently in the work wasn't promising.

I do not know how Nintendo works with their trademarks, do they apply ahead of time ? Or once they start production ? If the latter that would mean DD "remake" started developpment and that the other game is pretty much done (either gold and waiting for a sudden release, or just in latter phases like debugging, optimization and final testing/voice acting/translation etc). That would be the ideal scenario, but maybe it's just fairly advanced, and shows good potential. Enough for nintendo to lay the groundwork for the team to work on DD next.

I'm pretty sure concept arts is not enough in the case of a game, as that's too early type of thing to have made and not even solid proof of a software/game existing yet. They would need to see the software actually being made far enough to seem like something is definitely happening and justify the protection of its brand. They didn't go through 2 refusals during the 2 years of process of approval if all they needed was just concept art, lol, games most likely require some level of existing software as proof.

Again I think if it took this long to get approved, it would have been cancelled already if it wasn't close to being made by this point, it's been long enough to have decided already to cancel it if there was such a big issue, but instead, it got approved this March. I find it very unlikely that this got cancelled, and again, Camelot doesn't have the luxury to cancel a game when they only make one at a time every few years, they gotta feed their employees with the profit of whatever they are currently making. If it was intended for late 2020 and it's now 2021, that's only one delay, that's nothing compared to how much BOTW1 was delayed in comparison, lol. I think we are safe on this one.

They most likely start registering it to go through the approval process as they are making the game, otherwise they wouldn't be ready to show proof of product to justify the trademark's approval, and it would have been refused permanently even with the extended deadline they would have asked for, so yeah it had to be when they were making the game, therefore DD is probably starting development sooner rather than later if it's just a remaster of some sort, maybe as soon as whatever this is releases first hopefully soon in early 2021 maybe, I don't have high expectations of 2020 tbh. The 2018 trademark's game is most likely on its final stages of development at this point unless the pandemic hit them hard, being Camelot in Tokyo… here's hoping they were already far enough ahead in develpoment so the impact wasn't that meaningful, just like games that came out this year only were delayed for a few months. Again they must have been making this next game of theirs after Aces released, which iirc released in… June 2018 I think? so maybe they took a lil break before start working on it, like a few months, or started right away and then began registering the new trademark shortly after in late 2018.

 

[Monue]

I think our best chance for isaac in smash is the fact that he is potentially in the same situation as Arms was, where both lacked content that should have come when they seemingly intended to compensate those series in base roster. Both lacked music, like Arms had no music at all even, and GS only has 2 tracks that makes NO sense at all with Isaac, literally no isaac battle theme is just mind blowing and nonsensical decision, nor anything from the first game even. The tracks that came were the TLA final boss theme and the overworld of DD iirc, which is like… wut? lol,

I don't follow here. Sakurai has said that assists and costumes are the compensation for those fans, of which Isaac got both. Isn't it just as likely ARMS and Golden Sun just didn't get music this time, I mean they dropped Isaac entirely last game. Don't get me wrong, I'm hopeful for him, but I feel like they were pretty well prepared to just leave Golden Sun with the content we got at launch.

I've always felt that if we do get Isaac, it'll be because of fan reactions around the time of launch. Like - all the other stuff as well, like the polls beforehand and all that - but if this pass is at least in part meant to please fans, then what'd give Isaac an upgrade would be things like the booing at his assist reveal, Golden Sunday, ect.

I guess I just find it hard to believe that they purposefully didn't include some music or some spirits, but did include an Assist and a Costume, if they knew he was coming. You know?

 

[Nazyrus]

I don't follow here. Sakurai has said that assists and costumes are the compensation for those fans, of which Isaac got both. Isn't it just as likely ARMS and Golden Sun just didn't get music this time, I mean they dropped Isaac entirely last game. Don't get me wrong, I'm hopeful for him, but I feel like they were pretty well prepared to just leave Golden Sun with the content we got at launch.

Yeah we could say that but here we are, with Arms being intended for base roster and it explains why its lack of content was so weird while other stuff in base roster didn't lack such content in such weird ways. Which is why makes Golden sun likely to be a similar case. It's the fact that we learned Arms was intended for base roster that makes this interesting and likely, as it was one of those both series lacking content, while other series didn't have such weird treatments.

I've always felt that if we do get Isaac, it'll be because of fan reactions around the time of launch. Like - all the other stuff as well, like the polls beforehand and all that - but if this pass is at least in part meant to please fans, then what'd give Isaac an upgrade would be things like the booing at his assist reveal, Golden Sunday, ect.

The backlash definitely ensured them if they had any doubt of how much people wanted Isaac in, but just like Arms, it was probably already intended for base roster and just didn't fully make it at the time, due to time limitations, like Sakurai said in Arms case.

I guess I just find it hard to believe that they purposefully didn't include some music or some spirits, but did include an Assist and a Costume, if they knew he was coming. You know?

Again, look at Arms and then Sakurai's statement about it.

 

[SharkLord]

I don't follow here. Sakurai has said that assists and costumes are the compensation for those fans, of which Isaac got both. Isn't it just as likely ARMS and Golden Sun just didn't get music this time, I mean they dropped Isaac entirely last game. Don't get me wrong, I'm hopeful for him, but I feel like they were pretty well prepared to just leave Golden Sun with the content we got at launch.

I've always felt that if we do get Isaac, it'll be because of fan reactions around the time of launch. Like - all the other stuff as well, like the polls beforehand and all that - but if this pass is at least in part meant to please fans, then what'd give Isaac an upgrade would be things like the booing at his assist reveal, Golden Sunday, ect.

I guess I just find it hard to believe that they purposefully didn't include some music or some spirits, but did include an Assist and a Costume, if they knew he was coming. You know?

Yeah, he wouldn't be added just because he didn't get much content, but because he's effectively the first-party Banjo. It was clear he was popular, but after the negative response to the November direct, it's pretty clear just how popular he is. That's what will secure him the spot, not a lack of base-game content.

 

[Kalaam]

I'm pretty sure concept arts is not enough in the case of a game, as that's too early type of thing to have made and not even solid proof of a software/game existing yet. They would need to see the software actually being made far enough to seem like something is definitely happening and justify the protection of its brand. They didn't go through 2 refusals during the 2 years of process of approval if all they needed was just concept art, lol, games most likely require some level of existing software as proof.

Well, the refusals may have been because concept art/work document weren't enough for those judges and they had to try again after having made more significant progress. The fact that there was refusal, then it got accepted after more examination shows that the project made progress in between.

 

[Monue]

Again, look at Arms and then Sakurai's statement about it.

I dunno, that alone just doesn't convince me there's any reason to draw any connections to Golden Sun. We also don't know how exactly the process works, or the exact dates of when another Fighter's Pass was decided to happen. It's also curious ARMS was intended for base game, but not intended enough to be in the first pass, that's just curious if nothing else.

But that's neither here nor there, my point is I lean more heavily towards everything else in this case for Isaac's inclusion. A few missing tracks isn't indicitive of anything for me personally, and there's no reason in my mind to correlate ARMS situation with Golden Sun's.

 

[NessAtc.]

Yeah, he wouldn't be added just because he didn't get much content, but because he's effectively the first-party Banjo. It was clear he was popular, but after the negative response to the November direct, it's pretty clear just how popular he is. That's what will secure him the spot, not a lack of base-game content.

Nazyrus isn't saying that's why Isaac got picked, he's saying that's reasonable evidence to believe that he was in consideration at the same time as ARMS, which is a very powerful statement considering, like ARMS, Sakurai has not mentioned it.

 

[SharkLord]

Nazyrus isn't saying that's why Isaac got picked, he's saying that's reasonable evidence to believe that he was in consideration at the same time as ARMS, which is a very powerful statement considering, like ARMS, Sakurai has not mentioned it.

That's fair. Golden Sun did get the most representation out of the games/series without a fighter, besides possibly Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Heck, his Dark Dawn Spirit got into the Legend category. AT the very least, it seems like the devs were aware of his popularity.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Arms' situation being fixed now with Min min's inclusion is what makes me hopeful for Isaac personally, and the fact that this pass is described by Sakurai as "opportunities to satisfy fans", and Isaac clearly has always been there high up in demand… let's hope we make it in this final chance, lol.

"Opportunities to satisfy fans" is so ridiculously vague though. He might as well have not said anything at all. There's dozens of popular characters he could be talking about and technically it could be talking about any kind of character. (not just the popular ones)

I'd love if it was a clear cut "Sakurai is looking at the list of popular, feasible characters and working his way down" but I doubt it. I think if he was doing that, Isaac would get in. Especially if he was basing it off the ballot and polls prior to June 2019.

 

[SharkLord]

"Opportunities to satisfy fans" is so ridiculously vague though. He might as well have not said anything at all. There's dozens of popular characters he could be talking about and technically it could be talking about any kind of character. (not just the popular ones)

I'd love if it was a clear cut "Sakurai is looking at the list of popular, feasible characters and working his way down" but I doubt it. I think if he was doing that, Isaac would get in. Especially if he was basing it off the ballot and polls prior to June 2019.

I think it should be noted that we only got two new franchises represented, one a major third-party and the other Nintendo's most successful new IP in a long time. Isaac may have been docked because he'd need a stage to represent his series, and there simply wasn't enough time to make anything more than a fighter.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

It's the fact that we learned Arms was intended for base roster that makes this interesting and likely, as it was one of those both series lacking content, while other series didn't have such weird treatments.

Where did we learn this? Did Sakurai say something in an interview?

 

[Nazyrus]

Where did we learn this? Did Sakurai say something in an interview?

It was sakurai's words, translated by pushdustin in a series of tweet posts he made back when Arms was revealed or shortly afterwards.

 

[SharkLord]

Where did we learn this? Did Sakurai say something in an interview?

Yeah, it was pretty well-known that Sakurai noted Rex and an ARMS character as people he'd add had they been released just a bit earlier.