Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

Phoenix Douchebag · Aug 25, 2020

Can someone explaing me the whole trademark thing?

FlawedAI · Aug 25, 2020

Phoenix Douchebag said:
Can someone explaing me the whole trademark thing?

As best I can do right now, there's certainly more to add:

In August 2018, a trademark was applied for by Nintendo for "Golden Sun" in Japan. It was brand-new, not a renewal, which is important because that requires "proof of usage", or something the company will actually use the trademark for. This trademark became accepted and put into effect sometime last year I believe, and importantly included regions like Korea, where the original Golden Sun was never released.

A trademark similar to this one (only includes "Golden Sun", no subtitle) was also used before Dark Dawn was released, over 10 years ago. This is why we believe that something new is coming, because the trademark needs to be used to be approved, which it was.

A recent development occurred just a few days ago: it was discovered that a new trademark for "Golden Sun Dark Dawn" was applied for by Nintendo, requiring the same approval process as the "Golden Sun" trademark from 2018.

The main reason we're so concerned with the trademarks is because Nintendo is required to show what they'll be using the new trademark for, and it has to be something new. Games on the Nintendo Switch Online service don't require a new trademark, so it's something else. It could be anything from a new game to merchandise for whatever reason, but the product would have to be labeled with the "Golden Sun" trademark.

(If anyone else has anything to add, please feel free to go ahead and elaborate further, I'm sure I missed a few things.)

Kalaam · Aug 25, 2020

That was a good, simple summary.

extremeturkey · Aug 25, 2020

FlawedAI said:
I genuinely can't fathom why you would bother to go onto an Isaac support thread, then proceed to trash all over our hopes and speculation. It's not even like it's baseless hoping, we have literal legal proof that Nintendo is doing something with Golden Sun, but we just don't know what. If you'd like, I can give you a decent enough rundown of why we believe that, though Nazyrus is much more knowledgable regarding the trademarks. Multiple different trusted insiders have also said that GS is coming, but again, we don't know when or in what form. If that also includes Isaac in Smash, awesome, mission accomplished. If it doesn't, oh well, we still got new GS stuff.

You can have your doubts, many people on this thread do as well, that's 100% ok. But to come in to the Golden Sun support thread and say "Your favorite series is dead and it'll never return" seems... troll-ish, in a way. I don't want to police your experience, but I think you might be better served being a little less harsh and more inquisitive, maybe asking why people are so confident that GS is returning instead of saying "Golden Sun is dead and I don't think it will ever be revived."

I am not some dumb troll, Isaac is the character I have wanted most for SSB since before brawl. I just think the series is dead.

Moreover I've seen people get hyped up over trademark renewals before and it doesn't necessarily lead to anything. You think I'm being harsh but I just disagree.

Kalaam · Aug 25, 2020

extremeturkey said:
I am not some dumb troll, Isaac is the character I have wanted most for SSB since before brawl. I just think the series is dead.

Moreover I've seen people get hyped up over trademark renewals before and it doesn't necessarily lead to anything. You think I'm being harsh but I just disagree.

You litteraly provide no explanation nor justification.
If you are hopeless that's your problem, you do not need to bring it up to down others.

Bringing up issues and doubts is perfectly fine, but just calling the serie dead is not doing anything to advance the conversation, only sets a bad mood.
And as we brought up, the serie looks like it is on the path to resurrection. Trademarks may lead to nothing, but getting a second one after the first one is kind of odd. Why do it if the first project is cancelled or deemed doomed to failure ? Wouldn't you rather work on a second trademark if you consider the first one as potentially successful ?

FlawedAI · Aug 25, 2020

extremeturkey said:
I am not some dumb troll, Isaac is the character I have wanted most for SSB since before brawl. I just think the series is dead.

Moreover I've seen people get hyped up over trademark renewals before and it doesn't necessarily lead to anything. You think I'm being harsh but I just disagree.

(Bolded by me for emphasis)

Ah, that's where the difference lies. This, and I cannot stress is enough, is not a trademark renewal. It is a brand new trademark, which requires that the company registering the trademark demonstrate "intent of use", i.e., a new product using the trademark. That's why this is so notable, it's brand new, and it was rejected twice(?) but Nintendo pushed it through. Why bother if the series was truly dead? They still maintain the trademarks for the original Golden Sun as well as Dark Dawn, but these two new ones are completely new. Registered in 2018, not 2001 or 2010.

I have absolutely no issue with you being skeptical, I've had my doubts about this before as well. However, legally, these new trademarks require that Nintendo have a product on the horizon utilizing the trademarks, and not just re-releases, which would still be protected under the original trademarks. For instance, when Golden Sun and The Lost Age were rereleased on Wii U, they didn't require a new trademark, because they were still protected under the trademark filed in 2001 which had been renewed. However, if Nintendo wanted to put out a new product with "Golden Sun", they'd need to trademark it, because it wouldn't fall under the original trademark, as seen in 2010, when the trademark for "Golden Sun Dark Dawn" was registered.

I ask that you read my summary on the trademark situation, which illustrates why exactly it's such a big deal. I hope this helped, I'd like as many people understand the process that's happening as possible so everyone can be on the same page.

extremeturkey · Aug 25, 2020

A remake of the first two games would be the best thing, but all I can hope for is that they just port them to Switch because I would love to be able to replay them on a TV and portably (on a switch, not wii u). Unfortunately nintendo is apparently too dumb to do an actual virtual console, let alone for GBA games. :/ nonetheless I think a port/rerelease/bundled release is possible.

Sorry if my pessimism brings you down. I wouldn't assert that the series will never return, just that I'm not at all convinced that it ever will. A trademark alone doesn't convince me. I think there is space in these threads for pessimism but y'all can keep being hopeful.

Monue · Aug 25, 2020

extremeturkey said:
I think there is space in these threads for pessimism but y'all can keep being hopeful.

I actually agree here. I don't think anyone's throat should get jumped down just because they're skeptical. Skepticism, and to a lesser degree even pessimism, is a healthy viewpoint to have and share in any group. You can't take it as a personal attack, which I've seen happen a lot on this thread. Skepticism doesn't invalidate your opinion, and it certainly doesn't invalidate your feelings, and overall it does help stem the tides of despair in situations like this, should, god forbid, this does turn out to be nothing.

That doesn't mean I think it will turn out into nothing, and it doesn't matter one way or another; the point is there should be a push and pull, an ebb and flow to speculation and discussion. You can still be excited even if someone else is skeptical and sharing their opinion.

Hype and skepticism can, and should, coexist in the same space. It's healthy.

FlawedAI · Aug 25, 2020

extremeturkey said:
A remake of the first two games would be the best thing, but all I can hope for is that they just port them to Switch because I would love to be able to replay them on a TV and portably (on a switch, not wii u). Unfortunately nintendo is apparently too dumb to do an actual virtual console, let alone for GBA games. :/ nonetheless I think a port/rerelease/bundled release is possible.

Sorry if my pessimism brings you down. I wouldn't assert that the series will never return, just that I'm not at all convinced that it ever will. A trademark alone doesn't convince me. I think there is space in these threads for pessimism but y'all can keep being hopeful.

Don't apologize for being skeptical, we've had plenty of folks who aren't as convinced as I am. I do have more evidence if you're not convinced by the trademarks, which is understandable. Here you go:

In addition to the trademarks, we have multiple insiders state that Golden Sun is happening. At least three different sources have stated as such, including Nazyrus on this thread, who has contact with Sabi's former source. Naz's connection was one of two people to leak Banjo in Smash, the other being Shinobi, who has also commented on Golden Sun multiple times, though presumably as a fan of the series. On the Isaac Discord, two others have stated that their sources have said that Golden Sun is happening. Additionally, NateDrake on ResetEra (whose admins notoriously take down fake leakers) has said that Mario Golf, Camelot's other Mario sports game series, "never had a chance", which many interpret to mean it's not coming. Camelot hasn't released anything since Summer 2018, when Mario Tennis Aces came out. Never in their history has there been such a long period of silence from them. We don't know what they're working on, but we can make educated guesses. Importantly, it wasn't the Aces DLC, as Nintendo's internal teams were handling that. The Takahashi Bros. (founders of Camelot, creative geniuses behind Golden Sun) have said their work on Aces was done in December of 2017, leaving them months before release to plan their next game. Camelot is known for three franchises working under Nintendo: Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, and Golden Sun. Mario Tennis just had a release and it's highly unlikely that they worked on it for 2+ years, given that they already had the engine to work with, Mario Golf has been shut down by NateDrake as well as Naz's source, and Golden Sun is an unknown. We can infer, then, that Camelot has been working on Golden Sun. Some mention Mario Sports, which also got a trademark recently, but Camelot is only responsible for tennis and golf, "Mario Sports" has been mostly done by Namco. Additionally, the "Mario Sports" trademark hasn't gone through the approval process yet, meaning if the game were to come out next month, it wouldn't be protected by trademark. As such, Golden Sun is the only feasible option.

To add on to that, there's three little things that don't inherently mean anything, but are worth mentioning. First, the Takahashi Bros have stated that they want to make RPGs again, usually referencing Shining Force, owned by Sega. Golden Sun is also an RPG, but if they were developing it they'd be under an NDA and not allowed to say so. Second, there was a Golden Sun reference in Mario Tennis Aces: in Japanese, the Kingdom of Bask shares the same name as Sol Sanctum. Finally, and this is mostly speculation, but some people think that the overworld engine used in MTA was developed for Golden Sun, as the way Mario traverses the overworld is similar to how it's done in Golden Sun.

So that's why people are so confident, I hope I've explained it well enough. There's always a place for skepticism and expressing doubts here, but at the same time you should be prepared for people to respond to that skepticism.

Monue said:
I actually agree here. I don't think anyone's throat should get jumped down just because they're skeptical. Skepticism, and to a lesser degree even pessimism, is a healthy viewpoint to have and share in any group. You can't take it as a personal attack, which I've seen happen a lot on this thread. Skepticism doesn't invalidate your opinion, and it certainly doesn't invalidate your feelings, and overall it does help stem the tides of despair in situations like this, should, god forbid, this does turn out to be nothing.

That doesn't mean I think it will turn out into nothing, and it doesn't matter one way or another; the point is there should be a push and pull, an ebb and flow to speculation and discussion. You can still be excited even if someone else is skeptical and sharing their opinion.

Hype and skepticism can, and should, coexist in the same space. It's healthy.

Of course. That said, if I believe that skepticism to be misguided, I'm allowed to share why I believe so. I didn't make personal attacks, I stated the evidence as best I could.

Monue · Aug 25, 2020

FlawedAI said:
Of course. That said, if I believe that skepticism to be misguided, I'm allowed to share why I believe so. I didn't make personal attacks, I stated the evidence as best I could.

I understand. I wasn't directing my comment at anyone in particular. Just, in general, I felt it was a good thing to keep in mind; I've seen these forum disagreements devolve into brawls quickly, and suddenly you've got pink marshmallows and spiked turtles and anthro people all beating the crap out of each other. It's a whole thing.

TempestSurge · Aug 25, 2020

Monue said:
I actually agree here. I don't think anyone's throat should get jumped down just because they're skeptical. Skepticism, and to a lesser degree even pessimism, is a healthy viewpoint to have and share in any group. You can't take it as a personal attack, which I've seen happen a lot on this thread. Skepticism doesn't invalidate your opinion, and it certainly doesn't invalidate your feelings, and overall it does help stem the tides of despair in situations like this, should, god forbid, this does turn out to be nothing.

That doesn't mean I think it will turn out into nothing, and it doesn't matter one way or another; the point is there should be a push and pull, an ebb and flow to speculation and discussion. You can still be excited even if someone else is skeptical and sharing their opinion.

Hype and skepticism can, and should, coexist in the same space. It's healthy.

Just to chip in a different perspective, ever since Isaac's assist reveal, we've lost tons of activity but those of us that stuck around have been doing our best to garner attention for this series and show Nintendo we want it back. We spent the better part of a year coordinating letter/email campaigns and Golden Sundays. Trying to get Golden Sun back (with some Smash talk) has been the main focus of this thread for a while and then this trademark stuff has been added to the mix.

So to suddenly get a 'Golden Sun is dead' post in what seems to be a long while. It came off unintentionally funny to me because of how jarring it was in the context of what's been going on in this thread, not because the post itself was skeptic.

SharkLord · Aug 25, 2020

TempestSurge said:
Just to chip in a different perspective, ever since Isaac's assist reveal, we've lost tons of activity but those of us that stuck around have been doing our best to garner attention for this series and show Nintendo we want it back. We spent the better part of a year coordinating letter/email campaigns and Golden Sundays. Trying to get Golden Sun back (with some Smash talk) has been the main focus of this thread for a while and then this trademark stuff has been added to the mix.

So to suddenly get a 'Golden Sun is dead' post in what seems to be a long while. It came off unintentionally funny to me because of how jarring it was in the context of what's been going on in this thread, not because the post itself was skeptic.

There's also the fact that the guy's new to the thread, so leading with "Golden Sun is dead" came off as a bit blunt and mean-spirited, even if they didn't intend to do so.

Gioka · Aug 25, 2020

Even if speculation always centers on Isaac's chances for Smash, we have reached a point where we center ourselves in showing Nintendo and Camelot that fan demands exists for Golden Sun and not just for Isaac's inclusion, especially since the Takahashi said they would work on GS again if fans demanded for it, and tbh, the GS fandom wasn't as vocal before as it has been now.
There is also the fact that the Takahashi said they'd like to develop the future of GS on a hybrid console if it was possible (when asked if they'd want to keep GS as a portable console game or change to a home console)

Monue · Aug 25, 2020

TempestSurge said:
Just to chip in a different perspective, ever since Isaac's assist reveal, we've lost tons of activity but those of us that stuck around have been doing our best to garner attention for this series and show Nintendo we want it back. We spent the better part of a year coordinating letter/email campaigns and Golden Sundays. Trying to get Golden Sun back (with some Smash talk) has been the main focus of this thread for a while and then this trademark stuff has been added to the mix.

So to suddenly get a 'Golden Sun is dead' post in what seems to be a long while. It came off unintentionally funny to me because of how jarring it was in the context of what's been going on in this thread, not because the post itself was skeptic.

I feel ya!

I'll be honest too - I'm very excited about how things look. Not only that, but if this actually happens? If we get Isaac in Smash, a new game, remakes, remasters, or even just the games on the Switch store, you can chalk that up entirely to we the fans.

For Smash, Banjo and Ridley were huge wins, but Isaac was always kind of an underdog. If he got in there that'd be mind blowing - but honestly I'm more impressed that we might be getting remakes and possibly a whole new game. That's a much larger investment for Nintendo than a character in Smash - it's a big freaking deal, and it wouldn't have happened if we'd said nothing. I dunno, it's crazy to think about.

From the smash ballot, to the outcry after the Assist reveal, to Golden Sunday, to letter campaigns - everything you mentioned, everything from before the trademarks and after. There's no doubt in my mind that if Nintendo does do something with Golden Sun it's because of what the fans have done. They simply wouldn't have touched it if they didn't see how passionate people were about the series. That's awesome - and a success like that isn't common! It should be celebrated!

I hope that that fact is talked about when/if these games get revealed. I hope the media really zeroes in on how a small, passionate fan base brought a "dead" series back to life. I think it would be earned, because Nintendo could have chosen from a laundry list of other options, but it looks like they may have chosen our game, and we only have ourselves to thank for that.

I hope it happens.

N3ON · Aug 25, 2020

It's not a support thread. It's a discussion thread. Don't gatekeep against opinions you don't like and act hostile to those who don't share your outlook.

This is a thread in which to discuss Isaac, and therefore basically GS as a whole. Everyone is welcome to share their takes, be they optimistic, pessimistic, or whatever, so long as people can be respectful. Those are the only confines this thread needs to abide by.

You're going to have to deal with people who disagree with you without implying they've no place here. If anything, there's less of a place here for people who can't be civil, no matter what you think about Isaac.

Nazyrus · Aug 25, 2020

While I respect people's difference of opinions, I think coming in and literally starting with stuff like "your dead series" or however it was worded, is unnecessary and irrelevant, specially when "relevancy" and/or "lack of new games" are arguments long ago debunked with characters like Krool and Banjo Kazooie. We don't need that type of debunked arguments, as they lead to no constructive discussion whatsoever anymore. That's my take, people can have their doubts if they want, but at least have a real argument these days please.

Cadillac said:
Ok question here, does the new DD trademark include Korea?

"AU - CH - CN - EM - GB - KR - MX - US" are the secondary regions that will go through the process of the Dark Dawn trademark from what I'm seeing in the website I use for checking its status. KR is Korea.

Since it literally just appeared and hasn't advanced past its "new application" first step of the whole process, we don't know if Korea will get its granted protection just yet, but it is certainly included to be one of the countries that will attempt to get its grant of protection

. I think if the new one from 2018 got it, this one shouldn't have an issue getting its protection granted either. We shall see in due time, cause it takes a while for trademarks to go through all the process heh.

N3ON · Aug 25, 2020

He didn't come in to say "your series dead, hahaha", he said "the series is dead so I don't think it's coming back". Then he said other stuff. It wasn't any less topical or necessary than any of the other cyclical discussion here, it was just a contrary stance. Which, so long as it's civil, is fine.

So if you disagree with him disagree with him, but don't villainize him as someone dancing on the grave of the series.

NonSpecificGuy · Aug 25, 2020

I think counter views are important for Support/Discussion threads all said. Yeah maybe it was a poor choice of words to come in and start your post with “Golden Sun is dead” but without a different perspective thrown into the mix every once in a while speculation will begin to circle in on itself and then we’re stuck having the same convos and enticing an echo chamber. Not trying to be that guy but the Geno thread ends up coming off quite hostile when detractors come in and Ridley thread in Smash 4 was the same way. I’m not a fan of that.

Don’t get me wrong, I got sick of detractors in the Snake thread during Smash 4 because it was usually the same thing but sometimes it’s necessary.

Guynamednelson · Aug 25, 2020

NonSpecificGuy said:
I think counter views are important for Support/Discussion threads all said. Yeah maybe it was a poor choice of words to come in and start your post with “Golden Sun is dead” but without a different perspective thrown into the mix every once in a while speculation will begin to circle in on itself and then we’re stuck having the same convos and enticing an echo chamber. Not trying to be that guy but the Geno thread ends up coming off quite hostile when detractors come in and Ridley thread in Smash 4 was the same way. I’m not a fan of that.

Don’t get me wrong, I got sick of detractors in the Snake thread during Smash 4 because it was usually the same thing but sometimes it’s necessary.

To be fair, I do wonder about the lack of posts that go "Why the **** is this thread about an assist trophy still so active? It isn't even Waluigi for God's sake!"

FlawedAI · Aug 25, 2020

I mean, an opinion was presented (paraphrasing: "I think GS is dead, I doubt it's ever coming back", nothing we haven't heard before) that I disagree with, so I responded with why I believed it to be wrong. While there's no way to know for certain who is correct at the moment, I think we were well within our rights to respond the way we did. The "worst" someone said is that the OP was a troll, which we've encountered before. I responded in my posts explaining what we've learned, initially with the trademarks, then expounded on insider information when the poster mentioned not being convinced by the trademark info alone.

Nobody was trying to stop him from expressing his opinion on the series, rather, we were trying to change his opinion. Nobody suggested he wasn't welcome here, rather, we wanted to help him understand why that opinion was unpopular. We've been through every single argument for and against GS returning before, this was nothing new. With a lack of new information, official or otherwise, the conversation tends to be cyclical. I've mentioned before how often the question of "would Felix/Matthew/GS4 Protag be ok?" comes up and there are more examples of things like that, this is just one of several different topics that we discuss on repeat while waiting.

If you believe I overstepped in my responses, I will gladly yield to authority on this and try to tone myself back. However, to suggest that we were trying to make this person feel unwelcome or unwanted is, I feel, misrepresentative.

Nazyrus · Aug 25, 2020

N3ON said:
He didn't come in to say "your series dead, hahaha", he said "the series is dead so I don't think it's coming back". Then he said other stuff. It wasn't any less topical or necessary than any of the other cyclical discussion here, it was just a contrary stance. Which, so long as it's civil, is fine.

So if you disagree with him disagree with him, but don't villainize him as someone dancing on the grave of the series.

Me asking to bring a better argument than the dead one of "series is dead so i dont think it's coming back" =/= me villainizing him.
I'm simply asking for a better argument that hasn't been debunked already for over a year, as it definitely does not bring a constructive discussion at all. I will repeat myself, If people wanna doubt and disagree, fine, but at least bring a valid argument that hasn't been debunked, not once, but twice already in the game. I'm not the one specifically criticizing the wording, I focused on the argument itself, which regardless of the wording, it's still about something that has been debunked twice in a row within Ultimate. Anyone is welcome to come in, agreeing or disagreeing, but just keep up to date with what arguments are not even worth bringing back again.

FlawedAI said:
Nobody was trying to stop him from expressing his opinion on the series, rather, we were trying to change his opinion. Nobody suggested he wasn't welcome here, rather, we wanted to help him understand why that opinion was unpopular. We've been through every single argument for and against GS returning before, this was nothing new. With a lack of new information, official or otherwise, the conversation tends to be cyclical. I've mentioned before how often the question of "would Felix/Matthew/GS4 Protag be ok?" comes up and there are more examples of things like that, this is just one of several different topics that we discuss on repeat while waiting.

100% this.

Guynamednelson said:
To be fair, I do wonder about the lack of posts that go "Why the **** is this thread about an assist trophy still so active? It isn't even Waluigi for God's sake!"

Let's be thankful about that yeah, lol. I have seen it happen in other threads, not specifically because of AT, but simply hate towards characters, and it's like… why even do that… ugh

This has to be one of the most chills threads i have seen overall in this site to be honest.

SonicLink125 · Aug 25, 2020

Nazyrus said:
This has to be one of the most chills threads i have seen overall in this site to be honest.

Hard agree there! I’ve seen many different threads here in SB and this one about Isaac is just so great! Keep being awesome, fellow Adepts!

Isaac: Venus Adept · Aug 25, 2020

If someone's pessimistic we just enlighten them on the reasons why we are optimistic for good things happening to the series. It's worth having meaningful discussions than becoming an echo chamber full of falsehoods or letting it be perceived as one when it really it isn't in our case. I don't blame people for being burnt out on having hope for GS in the decade since Dark Dawn's release but its up to us to let them know why these series of events are as believable and hold strong for the return of the series. If someone in general is being a mean spirited troll which is a far different scenario just report them and move on

Nazyrus · Aug 25, 2020

Isaac: Venus Adept said:
If someone's pessimistic we just enlighten them on the reasons why we are optimistic for good things happening to the series. It's worth having meaningful discussions than becoming an echo chamber full of falsehoods or letting it be perceived as one when it really it isn't in our case. I don't blame people for being burnt out on having hope for GS in the decade since Dark Dawn's release but its up to us to let them know why these series of events are as believable and hold strong for the return of the series. If someone in general is being a mean spirited troll which is a far different scenario just report them and move on

Totally agreed. Honestly people should just enjoy this while it lasts, like Maximiliam said on his video of Smash ultimate being its golden era right now.

SharkLord · Aug 25, 2020

Nazyrus said:
Let's be thankful about that yeah, lol. I have seen it happen in other threads, not specifically because of AT, but simply hate towards characters, and it's like… why even do that… ugh

This has to be one of the most chills threads i have seen overall in this site to be honest.

I hear this thread really flared up during the pre-November Direct era. How bad did it get at that time, if at all?

MeatOfJustice · Aug 25, 2020

Nazyrus said:
While I respect people's difference of opinions, I think coming in and literally starting with stuff like "your dead series" or however it was worded, is unnecessary and irrelevant, specially when "relevancy" and/or "lack of new games" are arguments long ago debunked with characters like Krool and Banjo Kazooie. We don't need that type of debunked arguments, as they lead to no constructive discussion whatsoever anymore. That's my take, people can have their doubts if they want, but at least have a real argument these days please.

"AU - CH - CN - EM - GB - KR - MX - US" are the secondary regions that will go through the process of the Dark Dawn trademark from what I'm seeing in the website I use for checking its status. KR is Korea.

Since it literally just appeared and hasn't advanced past its "new application" first step of the whole process, we don't know if Korea will get its granted protection just yet, but it is certainly included to be one of the countries that will attempt to get its grant of protection . I think if the new one from 2018 got it, this one shouldn't have an issue getting its protection granted either. We shall see in due time, cause it takes a while for trademarks to go through all the process heh.

Which regions do CN and EM stand for?

Guynamednelson · Aug 25, 2020

MeatOfJustice said:
Which regions do CN and EM stand for?

Canada and Emerging Markets.

Gioka · Aug 25, 2020

SharkLord said:
I hear this thread really flared up during the pre-November Direct era. How bad did it get at that time, if at all?

It didn't. If I recall correctly we got a couple trolls, but all in all things have always been civil in this thread. We got people who were pessimistic and people who were optimistic but mostly no ill spirited people. Besides, for many people on the site, Isaac was a shoe in, so it never got bad on itself, it pretty much just slowed down after Isaac's AT reveal.

ZelDan · Aug 25, 2020

I remember there being discussions about the Grinch banner pre november 2018 direct and...well, that's basically all I remember.

Nazyrus · Aug 25, 2020

Grinch shook the entire community to be fair lol

Isaac: Venus Adept · Aug 25, 2020

This thread from August- November 2018 was an absolute monster. There were days when five pages were filled up in a single day. Its going to be nice seeing those old faces that haven't been on the thread in a while come back if Golden Sun is really confirmed in this direct. We have no idea how badly it could have been potentially delayed so here's hoping

NessAtc. · Aug 25, 2020

FlawedAI said:
As best I can do right now, there's certainly more to add:

In August 2018, a trademark was applied for by Nintendo for "Golden Sun" in Japan. It was brand-new, not a renewal, which is important because that requires "proof of usage", or something the company will actually use the trademark for. This trademark became accepted and put into effect sometime last year I believe, and importantly included regions like Korea, where the original Golden Sun was never released.

A trademark similar to this one (only includes "Golden Sun", no subtitle) was also used before Dark Dawn was released, over 10 years ago. This is why we believe that something new is coming, because the trademark needs to be used to be approved, which it was.

A recent development occurred just a few days ago: it was discovered that a new trademark for "Golden Sun Dark Dawn" was applied for by Nintendo, requiring the same approval process as the "Golden Sun" trademark from 2018.

The main reason we're so concerned with the trademarks is because Nintendo is required to show what they'll be using the new trademark for, and it has to be something new. Games on the Nintendo Switch Online service don't require a new trademark, so it's something else. It could be anything from a new game to merchandise for whatever reason, but the product would have to be labeled with the "Golden Sun" trademark.

(If anyone else has anything to add, please feel free to go ahead and elaborate further, I'm sure I missed a few things.)

It was actually applied for in June 2018, August 2018 is just when it got made public

SirBillyBob · Aug 26, 2020

Hello, hello. I've always been a fan of Isaac getting in as a Smash fighter, but I've finally decided to publicly support him here. I played Golden Sun for the first time in 2019 and fell in love with it, and with the recent news about the trademarks I'm cautiously optimistic about his series' return. Whatever happens though, I'm just glad there's still a dedicated hardcore fanbase for the series, and I just think that's neat.

As a bonus, here's some fan art of him I did based off that one wojak meme.

Cadillac · Aug 26, 2020

SirBillyBob said:
Hello, hello. I've always been a fan of Isaac getting in as a Smash fighter, but I've finally decided to publicly support him here. I played Golden Sun for the first time in 2019 and fell in love with it, and with the recent news about the trademarks I'm cautiously optimistic about his series' return. Whatever happens though, I'm just glad there's still a dedicated hardcore fanbase for the series, and I just think that's neat.

As a bonus, here's some fan art of him I did based off that one wojak meme.
View attachment 283474

Welcome to the team buddy.

TempestSurge · Aug 26, 2020

SharkLord said:
I hear this thread really flared up during the pre-November Direct era. How bad did it get at that time, if at all?

This thread after Isabelle's reveal has to take the cake. Like full on pages of meltdowns, pessimism, arguing and getting upset with each other. I can laugh about it now cause it's like, wow that was crazy.

There was also this other moment, which I don't remember specifically but it was like someone said something on gamefaqs about Isaac fans or whatever, can't remember if it was someone that had a big following or whatever. Actually I think it was about thinking Isaac fans were a chill fan base and that we were 'breaking character' by being more vocal than normal? Either way tons of people were coming into the thread, moderators having to say to calm down and stuff. I don't know why but Gamefaqs always some negative thread about Isaac or the fan base during that Ultimate speculation period.

But yeah the Isabelle reveal had to be the worst meltdown cause that direct had already been delayed so the expectations from the fandom were even higher than normal.

Billybae10K · Aug 26, 2020

I can't say I was a fan of this thread back in the September 2018 Direct days. The worst part was the speculation about them pushing back Isaac due to the earthquakes that had happened in Japan. I just thought that speculation was extremely tasteless. It certainly wasn't our proudest moment as a thread.

But I think every thread has to go through a rough patch like that at some point. And we've certainly bounced back since then, and since the disconfirmation of November 2018. I like to think everything does happen for a reason, and if us getting devastated at Isaac's AT in 2018 was a part of the catalyst for bringing Golden Sun back, I can't complain.

True Blue Warrior · Aug 26, 2020

There was also that situation with Vergeben using autism as an insult that I remember.

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Billybae10K said:
The worst part was the speculation about them pushing back Isaac due to the earthquakes that had happened in Japan.

There was more people warning against that in this thread than people who seriously considered that to be a valid theory.

Billybae10K · Aug 26, 2020

True Blue Warrior said:
There was more people warning against that in this thread than people who seriously considered that to be a valid theory.

True. I was just shocked that anyone at all would consider using it in speculation. It's one of those morally grey areas that probably should have been avoided completely.

Isaac: Venus Adept · Aug 26, 2020

Japan in general has a history of censoring content in relation to natural disasters so it wasn't that much of a stretch to us at the time. Isaac was already a massively speculated character at that point so expectations were already on him for that direct. We still paid our respects and most of us didn't outright put the lives of the victims behind as a result and for the minority that did we condemned them for that

TempestSurge · Aug 26, 2020

Isaac: Venus Adept said:
Japan in general has a history of censoring content in relation to natural disasters so it wasn't that much of a stretch to us at the time. Isaac was already a massively speculated character at that point so expectations were already on him for that direct. We still paid our respects and most of us didn't outright put the lives of the victims behind as a result and for the minority that did we condemned them for that

Also the controversy at the time wasn't so much about Isaac, moreso those fans impatiently demanding for the direct despite the natural disaster that took place. The Isaac correlation was very small in a sea of casual fans who felt Isaac didn't have much chance at all anyways. Of course given that it's our character, the Isaac fans took the heat for the correlation.

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