Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Arsenal234]

So if Isaac gets in, do you think it's likely that they'll add Matthew as an alt? (I know this has probably been asked before but I only really remember people asking about Matthew instead of Isaac and not as well as Isaac)

By the same reasoning I think adding Matthew instead of Isaac would be ridiculous since they're almost identical, I at the very least think not including a Matthew alt along with Isaac would be a missed opportunity. Especially if Matthew is going to be the protagonist of the series going forward.

I feel like a Matthew alt is somewhat more likely than a Felix alt, since I think Felix is a fair bit taller than Isaac.

Isaac and Matthew look pretty similar so I don't think Matthew would work all that well as an alt. Felix does look slightly taller than Isaac in his overworld sprite (the sprite we see Isaac and Felix running around in); but in their battle sprites they look the same size.

It is a little too late for character heights to matter. Chrom is considerably taller than Lucina, but they are the same height in smash. Pichu and Pikachu are much bigger than they are in Pokemon. Do I even need to talk about Ridley and Olimar? If Sakurai wants to give Isaac alts he will, if he doesn't he won't. Felix is as big of a part of the first two games as Isaac is (in my opinion) so I think it would be fitting to add him.

 

[Kalaam]

I'd say the "biggest" issue with Felix as an alt would be his stance and some animations.

 

[Calane]

Isaac and Matthew look pretty similar so I don't think Matthew would work all that well as an alt. Felix does look slightly taller than Isaac in his overworld sprite (the sprite we see Isaac and Felix running around in); but in their battle sprites they look the same size.
View attachment 282979 View attachment 282980

It is a little too late for character heights to matter. Chrom is considerably taller than Lucina, but they are the same height in smash. Pichu and Pikachu are much bigger than they are in Pokemon. Do I even need to talk about Ridley and Olimar? If Sakurai wants to give Isaac alts he will, if he doesn't he won't. Felix is as big of a part of the first two games as Isaac is (in my opinion) so I think it would be fitting to add him.

I personally think them looking similar is what makes Matthew being an alt work. And since alts have to share animations such as taunts and victories (in most cases), wouldn't it make more sense for Isaac's son to pose like him than Felix? Other than just making sense, I also think Matthew has enough differences from Isaac to justify him being an alt.


Their clothes are different, their hair's a little different, and they also wear the scarf differently.


Even using fanmade renders show that Matthew would be different enough to make a good alt.

The way I see it, Matthew would make a better alt, while Felix would make a better echo fighter. Thinking about it, it'd be great to get all three GS protagonists in that way (Isaac as the main fighter, Matthew as his alt, and Felix as his echo fighter). That's extremely unlikely to happen at this point (I'd say it's impossible), but I think that'd be pretty darn cool.

The Matthew render was created by Noah Hayden. The Isaac render was created by Nibroc-Rock.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I'd say the "biggest" issue with Felix as an alt would be his stance and some animations.

Chrom and Roy hold their swords in different stances so that shouldn't be an issue

 

[Kalaam]

Chrom and Roy hold their swords in different stances so that shouldn't be an issue

Yeah but Chrom is an echo. Not an alt.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah but Chrom is an echo. Not an alt.

Male and female Inkling/PT/Byleth all have some animation changes.

 

[Arsenal234]

I personally think them looking similar is what makes Matthew being an alt work. And since alts have to share animations such as taunts and victories (in most cases), wouldn't it make more sense for Isaac's son to pose like him than Felix? Other than just making sense, I also think Matthew has enough differences from Isaac to justify him being an alt.

View attachment 282983View attachment 282984
Their clothes are different, their hair's a little different, and they also wear the scarf differently.

View attachment 282987
Even using fanmade renders show that Matthew would be different enough to make a good alt.

The way I see it, Matthew would make a better alt, while Felix would make a better echo fighter. Thinking about it, it'd be great to get all three GS protagonists in that way (Isaac as the main fighter, Matthew as his alt, and Felix as his echo fighter). That's extremely unlikely to happen at this point (I'd say it's impossible), but I think that'd be pretty darn cool.

The Matthew render was created by Noah Hayden. The Isaac render was created by Nibroc-Rock.

Male and Female Byleth have different battle stances, different up taunts and different victory screens despite being the same character. Being Golden Sun fans we know Felix is supposed to be slightly taller than Isaac, but everyone else who doesn't play the games won't notice. I'm not saying that Matthew wouldn't make sense, i'm just thinking from a perspective of someone who doesn't play Golden Sun. It might not even occur to a casual player the Matthew is a completely different character. Felix on the other hand is completely different than Issac in design. Felix could get is own battle stance or just share Isaac's, again I think it come down to how Sakurai feels. Also i'm a bit biased to Felix since he is my favorite character.


Edit: Spelling

 

[Nazyrus]

Honestly just give me all 3 of them, make it a hero situation lol

 

[Kalaam]

Honestly just give me all 3 of them, make it a hero situation lol

With GS4 protag (Takeru? Felix' kid?) as a bonus promo alt

 

[TempestSurge]

IDK dude. Felix had enough lines in TBS and was able to talk in the ending of TLA. I'd say that's enough to give him the advantage lol.

Makes me think how they would go about it in the remake. Would either be silent in the game or would they both have talking lines in their respective games? And for that matter, would the remake feature Felix' perspective in TBS and Isaac's perspective in TLA? Food for thought.

You know one thing I feel they could do if they wanted to add speaking lines to Isaac is like how the face emotes you choose have the characters reply to Isaac as if he said something. They could have Isaac actually say the line that corresponds to the emote.

I know I've had my silly moments staring at the faces for a long while and thinking I'm picking an appropriate emote only for the characters to react negatively to it. Like wish we could see dialogue choices that reflect the face emotes lol.

 

[Kalaam]

The emotes of Isaac definitely imply lines from him. They are just left to the player's imagination so they can project/make their own version of Isaac.
Matthew's emotions answers were a natural evolution of that logic, giving you the option to even choose the emotion that Matthew was experiencing.

 

[Calane]

Male and Female Byleth have different battle stances, different up taunts and different victory screens despite being the same character.

I'm aware of this. That's why I said "in most cases".

Being Golden Sun fans we know Felix is supposed to be slightly taller than Isaac, but everyone else who doesn't play the games won't notice. I'm not saying that Matthew wouldn't make sense, i'm just thinking from a perspective of someone who doesn't play Golden Sun. It might not even occur to a casual player the Matthew is a completely different character.

I'm pretty certain that the differences I already mentioned, and the name literally changing to Matthew, would clue people in that they're not the same character.

Felix on the other hand is completely different than Issac in design. Felix could get is own battle stance or just share Isaac's, again I think it come down to how Sakurai feels.

Honestly, Felix is probably more likely to be chosen due to him being more popular than Matthew. I'm sure it would make more fans happy. I personally just think Matthew makes more sense, has enough to stand out, and would likely be easier to do.

Also i'm a bit biased to Felix since he is my favorite character.

Completely understandable, lol.

 

[clearandsweet]

They're playing Saturos' battle theme as bgm on AGDQ right now.

GS4 confirmed.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Updated support list.

Also, in regard to the post earlier about people expecting more big name third-parties, if there truly were that many “big” third-parties in this pass, wouldn’t it have made more sense to open up with one of them instead of ?

Spoiler: Adepts

1. _Sheik
2. 1/128
3. 3DSNinja
4. 9Blades
5. ☆Jisatsu☆
6. Verrix
7. ?!?!?!
8. Accursed
9. AceyT
10. Adeptmune
11. Agk0001
12. Aguki90
13. airConditioner
14. AirMac1
15. aldelaro5
16. alguidrag
17. Akod
18. AlliwantisIsaac
19. Altais
20. Amberloo
21. Amtoj
22. AncientArk
23. andimidna
24. Androobie
25. Aeon Lupin
26. Apollyon
27. Aqua Rock X
28. AquaDork1
29. AquaSol
30. Arcadenik
31. ArkSPiTFirE
32. Arsenal234,
33. Arteen
34. Asian_Charizard
35. Astraltar
36. Aureola
37. Aurora Jenny
38. AustarusIV
39. AwesomeCauliflower68
40. Awesomedude444
41. aztimh
42. Backgammon
43. Baddies are back
44. Balgorxz
45. BandannaWaddleDee
46. Bane84
47. Banjodorf
48. bassem6
49. Bassoonist
50. Billybae10K
51. BillyBat
52. Bingoshi
53. Bkupa666
54. Black Magician
55. Blackwolf666
56. Bladebreaker
57. Blaziken
58. Blue7113
59. BluePikmin11
60. BoltDragon
61. BoN~
62. BoreasTheSnowConeMachine
63. Bowser-Daimao
64. BravadoMan_13
65. BridgesWithTurtles
66. Brother AJ
67. Browny
68. Buddy002
69. Bunny8093
70. BUnit
71. Burruni
72. Calamitas
73. Calane
74. CactusBlah
75. Cadillac
76. candyissweet
77. Capita
78. Cap'nChreest
79. Captain Toad
80. CardStealer1
81. Cazzone,
82. Chapter Serf
83. CheckmateChuck
84. CheeseBroJoe
85. Cheezey Bites
86. ChirimoyaX
87. Chromfirmed
88. Chrono.
89. ChronoPenguin
90. clearandsweet
91. ClinkStryphart
92. CliffJumper
93. Clumsyzephyr
94. Coaltergeist
95. cocy965
96. Cos.
97. Confirmation
98. Connorb0t2
99. Crap-Zapper
100. CrocoLoco
101. CrossDispatcher
102. cybersai
103. Dalek_Kolt
104. Darkdarkness
105. Darkfur
106. DatoSm
107. DCavalier
108. Dee Dude
109. Delta64
110. Demonfunds
111. Dendros
112. Desert Croc
113. Destroyer713
114. Dezeray112
115. Dhragen
116. Dib The Crazy Kid
117. Diddy Kong
118. Dihan
119. Dimensionsword64
120. Dionaea_floridensis
121. direktor
122. Disturbedfan199220
123. DivinexRose
124. DJ3DS
125. DJBor
126. D-Man9293
127. DMurr
128. DogManStar
129. DoodleDuck97
130. Doncalot
131. DraginHikari
132. Drakonis
133. DrJayfox
134. Dromader
135. DukeNapoleon
136. DustyPumpkin
137. Dyllybirdy
138. e105beta
139. Eagle
140. EclairSpark
141. EclipseSmash
142. EddyBearr
143. ED Cantu
144. Edlocke
145. egaddmario
146. ElPanandero
147. El Syd
148. EndlessChrom
149. EndlessRain
150. EnhaloTricks
151. EricTheGamerman
152. Essora
153. ETFruitNinja
154. ethanrodgers223
155. Ezequileste
156. Falgor
157. Falkoopa
158. False Sense
159. FamiconDisk
160. Famikom
161. FantastiqueFran
162. Felix_the_Slayer
163. fenyx4
164. ferioku
165. Fire Rider
166. Fire Tactician
167. Fire_Voyager
168. FirstBlade
169. Flamel
170. Flamingbird
171. Flareon
172. Flarzo
173. FlawedAI
174. Flik
175. FlintIke
176. Flynn.Scifo
177. fogbadge.
178. foolssigma
179. FooltheFlames
180. FrankAL
181. FreddyOnDrugs
182. Friesnchip
183. Frosty Pops
184. GalacticPetey
185. Gameguy1996
186. Gazorpazorpfield
187. Geassguy
188. gebi
189. Geildus
190. Geno Boost
191. Germaniac
192. ghastmine
193. Ghirahilda
194. GhostStorm
195. Gioka
196. GladiusVortex
197. GM_3826
198. GoldenBoy01
199. Golden Icarus
200. GoldenSunIsAlive
201. GoodGrief741
202. Gotann
203. GraveEclipse567
204. GreekGamer
205. gspindles
206. Gurein
207. Guynamednelson
208. Hakerson
209. heylodom
210. Highway20
211. Holdenon
212. hustler713
213. Huanchi
214. hwrdjacob
215. iam8bit
216. Icana
217. iDazedX_x
218. Inawordyes
219. IntelliHeath1
220. Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur
221. isaac3000
222. Isaac4SmashUltimate
223. Isaac for Smash Pls
224. IsaacOrRiot
225. Isaac: Venus Adept
226. Istry555
227. ItsRainingGravy
228. ItsYio
229. IvanQuote
230. JaidynReiman
231. Jak_spoon
232. JamesDNaux
233. James Tutumbero
234. Jamurai
235. Jandlebars
236. JarBear
237. Javifa
238. Jclubsandwich
239. JDogindy
240. JesseMcCloud
241. Jibunzo
242. Johnknight1
243. JohnnySparkxs
244. JoyStar
245. Jupiter Ivan
246. Jurae818
247. Just a random scrub
248. jweb22
249. Kalaam
250. Kalomaze
251. KCCHIEFS27
252. KeniththeGatherer
253. KeybladeSmasher
254. KHJason95
255. Kikaru
256. Kind Dedede
257. KingCloud
258. KingShadow
259. KingTorra
260. KingZing
261. KiraYoshikage
262. KirbyDragon
263. Kirbyfan391
264. Kisae
265. Klimax
266. KMDP
267. Knight-Adept
268. KoalaNut
269. Kokirikory
270. KoopaSaki
271. Koori
272. Krosshair
273. Kremling Man
274. Kumatora
275. KurouKamen
276. Kycse
277. Lady Palutena
278. Lampy
279. LaniusShrike
280. lanky_gunner
281. LasermasterA
282. Leafeon523
283. Ledfarmer
284. LeeYawshee
285. Legendary Spirit Tamer
286. LegendOfDragoon
287. legendofrob1
288. LemmyKoopa
289. lexpic17
290. lightdasher
291. LightheartedBum
292. Lightosia
293. Linq
294. Lisbon Mapping
295. littl-myth
296. Liverpool19
297. LoboRundas
298. Loliko YnT
299. Lone (Thirteenth)
300. Lonodel
301. Lord-Zero
302. Lucanic
303. Lucimar
304. Ludjinnado
305. Luigifan18
306. lunarum
307. Lukingordex
308. Lurxy
309. Lynn Eslie
310. M23-X0
311. Machete
312. MacSmitty
313. MagiusNecros
314. MAGMIS
315. MainJPW
316. Malcolm Belmont
317. MaskO'Gears
318. Master Rapier
319. MasterMushroom
320. MatthewVenusAdept
321. Mav485
322. McLapras
323. MeatOfJustice
324. Mega Bidoof
325. Mehdow
326. Mendelsin
327. MetalMario128
328. Metocles
329. Midnight Torch
330. Miifighters4Smash5
331. Minato Arisato
332. Mike Cometa
333. Mikegamer0608
334. millsfans
335. Mishudo
336. Mizuiro24
337. Monkokaio
338. MonopolyRubix
339. Monue
340. MorbidAltruism
341. Moydow
342. MrGame&Rock
343. MrMacBeth
344. MrToxicVoltage
345. Muirkat
346. Mythzotick
347. mynameisv
348. MysticKnives
349. N1N
350. N3ON
351. Nauzgo
352. Nawgust
353. Nazyrus
354. Necro Toad
355. Neo Zero
356. NessAtc.
357. Niala
358. Nimbostratus
359. NineS
360. Ninjakid41592
361. Ninjaed
362. Nintandy
363. Nintendokusou
364. NitrusVirus
365. NNN
366. NonSpecificGuy
367. NoOtherPersona
368. NoR4U
369. Nossnitro102
370. Octillus
371. Oddyesy
372. oh.glory
373. OhMyBanana54
374. Olo
375. Onassi2
376. Oniric Spriter
377. Ookami Ryo
378. OpticalBlast
379. OptimisticStrifer
380. Oracle_Summon
381. Organization XIII
382. osby
383. otarolgam
384. Oz37
385. Pacack
386. Pakky
387. Papagenos
388. ParanoidDrone
389. Pcubed007
390. Pennate
391. Phaazoid
392. PhilosophicAnimal
393. pholtos
394. Pinguino21v
395. Pizza Robo
396. P.Kat
397. Plain Yogurt
398. Plank08
399. Plato Xaiver
400. Playcube
401. PlayfulMushroom
402. POKEMANSPIKA
403. PokiehlthePoet
404. Powerman293
405. praline
406. ProperlyBasic
407. proxian
408. psb123
409. PSIguy89
410. PSYNergy
411. PrinceGal3n
412. PurpleStuff5
413. PWN3
414. Pwnapplez
415. Pyzlnar
416. QcSlayer
417. Q-Long
418. Quetzal77
419. R.O.B.
420. Radical Beam
421. Radori
422. Raetah
423. Rafuki21
424. RandomAce
425. Raykz
426. Raziek
427. Red Dasher
428. Red Ryu
429. ReeseBalaski
430. RegiGygas117
431. RenH
432. Replica
433. Rethuic
434. Retroen
435. RetrogamerMax
436. RetroMetalSonic
437. RhymeswithEmpty
438. Roger Smith
439. RosaPeach
440. Royaru
441. roydgriffin
442. Royvolution Ream
443. RumpletrellskiN
444. Ryan
445. Ryuji
446. Ryuutakeshi
447. Sabrewulf238
448. Saer2k
449. Sagittarius
450. Salocin
451. sandfall
452. SanicJan
453. Sari
454. Scatmansworld25
455. Scoliosis Jones
456. scoobymcsnack
457. Seb9k+
458. SebasSancy
459. Secret Sexytime
460. Seleir
461. Seoxys
462. Sephazon
463. ShadowGuy1
464. Sharklord
465. Shawnullah
466. sheik93
467. shellshocker18
468. Shin F.
469. Shinhed-echi
470. Shiny Porygon
471. shocktarts17
472. Shog
473. Sidboylol
474. Silo777
475. SirCamp
476. Skeleton o' Fun
477. SkullKidKing
478. Skyblade12
479. Skyfox2000
480. sman3975
481. Smash_Handle69
482. SmashBro99
483. smashingDoug
484. smashkirby
485. Smashmar2
486. smash puffle
487. SmashShadow
488. smashtriforce77
489. smileMasky
490. SmilingMad
491. SMX
492. SNEKeater
493. Solbliminal
494. Solfiner
495. someonetookjacob
496. SonicLink125
497. SonicSmasher
498. SoraSaturn
499. Sordim522
500. SorMago
501. SorrowOfAcheron
502. SoulofKhaos
503. Soulsaint
504. SoupCanMafia
505. Sparkus
506. Spatman
507. Spazzy_D
508. Speedwagon
509. Speed Weed
510. SPEN18
511. spoilerowl
512. Spootondorf
513. Sqid
514. Squirtle/Mario guy
515. SSBFan
516. Staarih
517. StaffofSmashing
518. Strider_Bond00J
519. StrikeBlade
520. SundaeS
521. SuperBrawler
522. Superfiremario
523. SuperNintendoKid
524. Supersmash77
525. Superyoshiom
526. Swampasaur
527. Sykin
528. Takasmash
529. tamagone
530. TappyBat
531. TBone06
532. tbuster766
533. TCT~Phantom
534. TeamFlareZakk
535. Techno1000
536. Tecnoid
537. Teeb147
538. TeenGirlSquad
539. TehEpicRyuga
540. TempestSurge
541. Tetiro
542. Tetrin
543. ThatShadowLink
544. THE 6r
545. The Curious Volnutt
546. The One Who Wrote This
547. Thekewlusername
548. T-Hell
549. TheRealHeroOfWinds
550. TheSeanMan
551. TheSpaceKing
552. The Stoopid Unikorn
553. TheTactician
554. THE TemporaryFool
555. thethirdkoopa
556. TheZoologist
557. ThirdDay
558. ThoughtfulWanderer
559. ThunderOverload
560. TiaSilvia
561. TimeSmash
562. Tinfoil
563. Tiymako
564. ToothiestAura
565. topspin1617
566. Tornado_Man
567. Travix Man
568. TreeBranch
569. True Blue Warrior
570. Turmalinium
571. tveye
572. tyrus+
573. UltimateWario
574. Ultinarok
575. Undella2
576. User Name String
577. UtopianPoyzin
578. valkiriforce
579. Vann Accessible
580. Vegito2727
581. Venus of the Desert Bloom
582. Vintage Creep
583. Violenceman
584. WaddleMatt
585. walph
586. warelander
587. Warheart_666
588. Wigglytuff ★
589. winterofsilver
590. Wintropy
591. WhiteEaglePL
592. Xelion
593. Xenigma
594. XenoWarriorX
595. XeVioN
596. Xiivi
597. Xithyl_kykorl
598. xLemmy_KoopaX
599. xNaz
600. xpnc
601. XTremeGamer1234
602. XxLtxX
603. Yangfly Leone
604. YellowLord
605. Yggdra
606. Yoh
607. Yoshi444
608. YoshiandToad
609. Young Horsetail
610. Your Hero
611. Ypsen
612. Yuki Setsuna
613. Yusa
614. YwhaletailY
615. Zabadoo
616. Zack 2
617. zabimaru1000
618. zagman505
619. zaiman12345
620. Zalaresh
621. Zandro
622. ZanZero
623. ZarroTsu
624. ZeldaMaster
625. ZelDan
626. ZestyÑ
627. zferolie
628. zmero_
629. Zulyar
630. Zuppo

 

[jweb23]

Also, in regard to the post earlier about people expecting more big name third-parties, if there truly were that many “big” third-parties in this pass, wouldn’t it have made more sense to open up with one of them instead of ?

Not necessarily. The last dlc before Min Min was Byleth and in my personal opinion it makes more sense to get all the first party characters out of the way so the Fighters Pass can end with potentially big surprise characters.

Of course this is all speculation. Last fighters pass we assumed there was a pattern and all dlc of that pass was third party, and then the curveball of Byleth happened. Maybe this pass is the reverse and we get majority first party with the final one or two characters being third party.

 

[SharkLord]

Updated support list.

Also, in regard to the post earlier about people expecting more big name third-parties, if there truly were that many “big” third-parties in this pass, wouldn’t it have made more sense to open up with one of them instead of ?

Assuming Min Min would've been revealed at E3 alongside CP7, it's possible she could've been a quick little bonus to give ARMS a push while CP7 started off the pass for real. Still, FP1 only had one popular request and one truly iconic character. I'd expect a similar pattern for FP2.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Not necessarily. The last dlc before Min Min was Byleth and in my personal opinion it makes more sense to get all the first party characters out of the way so the Fighters Pass can end with potentially big surprise characters.

Except considering Byleth was the last fighter for the first fighter pass, doesn't that make it more likely the final character in this pass will be a Nintendo character?

Personally I think this is kind of a weak argument to make though, I don't think there's any way you can predict for sure whether the fighter pass will end on a "big" character or a "small" character.

 

[NessAtc.]

Not necessarily. The last dlc before Min Min was Byleth and in my personal opinion it makes more sense to get all the first party characters out of the way so the Fighters Pass can end with potentially big surprise characters.

Of course this is all speculation. Last fighters pass we assumed there was a pattern and all dlc of that pass was third party, and then the curveball of Byleth happened. Maybe this pass is the reverse and we get majority first party with the final one or two characters being third party.

Literally, unequivocally impossible. They will not have any existing "big third parties" be at the end. That's terrible marketing for the pass, since you aren't as likely to buy the pass if the last character is someone like Sora or Lloyd or something. You'll just buy that pack.

Assuming there's any "big third party", they're going to be in the forefront. And it's seriously looking like there won't be.

 

[jweb23]

Except considering Byleth was the last fighter for the first fighter pass, doesn't that make it more likely the final character in this pass will be a Nintendo character?

Personally I think this is kind of a weak argument to make though, I don't think there's any way you can predict for sure whether the fighter pass will end on a "big" character or a "small" character.

If I’m remembering correctly, data miners looked in the code shortly after Piranha Plant was added into the game and found that PP was 1 of 16 added character slots for the dlc. That was why many people believed there would be a second and third fighters pass. I haven’t kept up with the data miners since then so maybe this info has changed.

Anyways, with said info we can assume Sakurai and his team probably knew of all the fighters or at least all the games they came from that were gonna be dlc which is why it didn’t matter who was gonna be the final character in pass 1.

Also, we can’t look back at the first fighters pass for comparison because pass 1 started with a 3rd party character and now pass 2 starts with a 1st party. So there is no pattern here. That’s why I said in my earlier post how this is all speculation from how I personally think it’s best to get all the 1st party characters out of the way and end on a third party. That way Ultimate can finish strong with a bang instead of a possible whimper.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think Isaac, Mathew, and Felix could all work as alts but I’m not sure they WILL be. Something about Sakurai tells me that the most he’d do is make Mathew an alt but even then I think we might be seeing JUST Isaac. Then again. I’m of the opinion we’re waiting till next game for Isaac and IF that happens I think Matthew or Felix will be an echo instead.

 

[NessAtc.]

If I’m remembering correctly, data miners looked in the code shortly after Piranha Plant was added into the game and found that PP was 1 of 16 added character slots for the dlc. That was why many people believed there would be a second and third fighters pass. I haven’t kept up with the data miners since then so maybe this info has changed.

Anyways, with said info we can assume Sakurai and his team probably knew of all the fighters or at least all the games they came from that were gonna be dlc which is why it didn’t matter who was gonna be the final character in pass 1.

Also, we can’t look back at the first fighters pass for comparison because pass 1 started with a 3rd party character and now pass 2 starts with a 1st party. So there is no pattern here. That’s why I said in my earlier post how this is all speculation from how I personally think it’s best to get all the 1st party characters out of the way and end on a third party. That way Ultimate can finish strong with a bang instead of a possible whimper.

All of those extra slots added with Piranha Plant are basically just futureproofing. It's bog standard in games nowadays. And if that somehow WERE the case, Sakurai's stated already that his intention is for FP2 to be the end. Which would mean that they added four extra slots for no reason. Never mind that if they DID know all of the DLC that far in advance, they could have futureproofed for ARMS, but chose not to.

Plus, Imran Khan has stated that pass 2 began planning in the wake of E3 2019, with the huge spike in sales from that. That was well after that update.

Ending on a "bang" is never a good way to do things when you're scheduling an important product. The utmost importance is to facilitate as many sales as you possibly can as soon as you can. That is why the first three characters of the pass were Joker, Hero, and Banjo.

On that note, them not deciding on FP2 until after that E3 heavily, heavily implies that they were absolutely going to end it on Byleth, a "whimper" as you put it. So it's completely irrelevant.

 

[FlawedAI]

It's impossible to predict if DLC will end with a big third-party because to Sakurai, every character has the same importance. In his mind, ending with Pokemon #12 would be just as exciting as ending with Sora, because he doesn't see characters like the fans do. As many have said, if he wanted to end DLC with a bang, Cloud would've been Smash 4's last character and Banjo or Hero would've finished FP1. It just doesn't happen.

 

[7NATOR]

I Don't think FP2 has to end on a whimper. Bayonetta was a good example of that

however like Bayonetta I also don't expect one of the more hype characters to be revealed at the end. Considering Min-Min was the first chracter, I'm not sure what to expect the final character to be like. I would expect them to be kinda controversial, but no where to the extent of Byleth or Incinearoar, unless they add a Gen 8 Pokemon, and even then it probably won't get hate

 

[Guynamednelson]

I Don't think FP2 has to end on a whimper. Bayonetta was a good example of that

I believe Corrin was the disappointing finale in this case.

 

[7NATOR]

I believe Corrin was the disappointing finale in this case.

Bayo was revealed after though, but I Kinda get the idea since it was in the Same Presentation

Man I'm so glad though Bayo was there, I would not want to have seen the responses if it was just corrin

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Ending on a "bang" is never a good way to do things when you're scheduling an important product. The utmost importance is to facilitate as many sales as you possibly can as soon as you can. That is why the first three characters of the pass were Joker, Hero, and Banjo.

The fact that Min Min was used as the first main selling point feels notable to me. There is a reason why nobody expected ARMS to open up the pass.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

The fact that Min Min was used as the first main selling point feels notable to me. There is a reason why nobody expected ARMS to open up the pass.

In fairness barely anyone thought ARMS would get a character at all, so it stands to reason nobody expected ARMS to open the pass either.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

In fairness barely anyone thought ARMS would get a character at all, so it stands to reason nobody expected ARMS to open the pass either.

And a big reason was that an ARMS character wouldn’t have been “hype” enough.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

And a big reason was that an ARMS character wouldn’t have been “hype” enough.

I feel like the big reasons were that Spring Man was an assist trophy, every other notable Arms fighter was a spirit and the creator outright said that he didn't think Arms was ready to get playable representation in Smash.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't think that was the big reason people were doubting it.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I feel like the big reasons were that Spring Man was an assist trophy, every other notable Arms fighter was a spirit and the creator outright said that he didn't think Arms was ready to get playable representation in Smash.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't think that was the big reason people were doubting it.

Never said it was the big reason, just a big reason, which is a big difference. Those reasons factor, but you cannot underestimate how much arguments of “hype“ and “no good Nintendo characters left” affected all the pre-ARMS predictions of the second pass being exclusively third-party.

 

[Cadillac]

Ok, random question. How would you want Isaac's render to be like? For me, I would like it to emphasize his hand, like the AT renders.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Ok, random question. How would you want Isaac's render to be like? For me, I would like it to emphasize his hand, like the AT renders.

I'd want it to emphasise more on his magic abilities, having his hands opened implying he's casting a spell would be neat and overall make it an eye striking pose. I also do like Nibroc Roc's render which mirrors the Golden Sun 1 boxart so that would be cool

 

[FlawedAI]

Ok, random question. How would you want Isaac's render to be like? For me, I would like it to emphasize his hand, like the AT renders.

I'd rather he not have his sword drawn, it would separate him from other swordfighters and emphasis his Psynergy. My first choice would be something like the boxart from TBS like Nibroc Roc did, but I'd rather wait until Felix could be added so that they can both have their boxart poses as their renders. If Djinn play a large part in his moveset (which they should) I think having him playing with Flint could be cool.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Ok, random question. How would you want Isaac's render to be like? For me, I would like it to emphasize his hand, like the AT renders.

Don't they sometimes make the render pose look similar to their games box art? Did I imagine that being a thing? I feel like there's at least one character whose render is based on a boxart pose....

Spoiler

I think a pose with some similarities to his pose in Golden Suns boxart would be a neat nod.

 

[FlawedAI]

Don't they sometimes make the render pose look similar to their games box art? Did I imagine that being a thing? I feel like there's at least one character whose render is based on a boxart pose....

I think a pose with some similarities to his pose in Golden Suns boxart would be a neat nod.

Both Simon and Richter have renders based off their original boxart. They've been modified to face forward, but the reference is clearly there.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Ok, random question. How would you want Isaac's render to be like? For me, I would like it to emphasize his hand, like the AT renders.

I’d like it to be based off this art.

 

[NessAtc.]

I’d like it to be based off this art.

That's gonna be his fighter spirit, calling it

 

[Nazyrus]

I think with the new game his spirit would be the new artwork, hopefully… altho it depends on what comes first i guess.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Don't they sometimes make the render pose look similar to their games box art? Did I imagine that being a thing? I feel like there's at least one character whose render is based on a boxart pose....

Spoiler

I think a pose with some similarities to his pose in Golden Suns boxart would be a neat nod.

Well that's pretty much what the Nibroc Roc's render was if you're interested, I'd love to have this as his official render in Smash

 

[Arsenal234]

I'd rather he not have his sword drawn, it would separate him from other swordfighters and emphasis his Psynergy. My first choice would be something like the boxart from TBS like Nibroc Roc did, but I'd rather wait until Felix could be added so that they can both have their boxart poses as their renders. If Djinn play a large part in his moveset (which they should) I think having him playing with Flint could be cool.

I would rather he have his sword drawn even if he just has it behind him like his Brawl trophy. If he doesn't have his sword in his render he won't have it for his amiibo, and I think that would be as missed opportunity.