Grunt
Smash Master
>______________________>
Fail troll is fail.
Because thunder stomping and tech chasing are so hard.
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Still considered low?
- Thread starter talkingbeatles
- Start date
Fail troll is fail.
Because thunder stomping and tech chasing are so hard.
I wonder that myself since it is obvious that GDorf's music is hardcore techno.
Dude, Ganondorf is cool and all, but middle tier at best, and that's being very generous. He has bad matchups against like everyone and no advantage over anyone. Any average Snake or Metaknight player can wreck a Ganondorf player if they pay attention.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
How to beat a Ganon:
1) Pick Pit
2) Arrow Camp
3) KO
4) Repeat 1-3 until all stock are gone
Alternatively
1) Pick Olimar
2) Stick him
3) Zone
4) KO
5) Repeat 1-4 until all stock are gone
OR
1) Pick anyone with a decent projectile game
2) Camp
3) GG
Ganon is too slow to do anything. Ever.
1) Pick Pit
2) Arrow Camp
3) KO
4) Repeat 1-3 until all stock are gone
Alternatively
1) Pick Olimar
2) Stick him
3) Zone
4) KO
5) Repeat 1-4 until all stock are gone
OR
1) Pick anyone with a decent projectile game
2) Camp
3) GG
Ganon is too slow to do anything. Ever.
PukeTShirt
Smash Journeyman
FIX'D
Lol, don't take that TOO seriously. I know camping is a valid strat, but man does it piss me off.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
PROTIP: Don't play Ganon if you hate camping.
:034:
Smash Hero
Blad01
Smash Lord
Ganondorf is low-mid according to me 
Ganondorf is a great character, its simply about staying a medium distance and abusing the openings.
You have to put enough pressure on your opponent so that they can't camp, but not enough to really be fighting them out.
Ganondorf also excells in being a heavy and its hard to KO him, giving him more ability to stay on the stage and gives your opponent more chances to screw up, allowing you to a better chance at single shotting them off the stage.
Imagine if instead we got a character <Skullkid or Vaati> who just had only kill moves with large lag and was a lightie with a bad recovery. I just name skullkid and Vaati because I think they would've been funny characters in brawl.
I'm assuming that in that sort of situation it would be much harder to use a light character with lots of high lag moves over a character with little lag moves, like Pit or MK.
Ganondorf is great for shock value and the ability to make your opponent play scared
You have to put enough pressure on your opponent so that they can't camp, but not enough to really be fighting them out.
Ganondorf also excells in being a heavy and its hard to KO him, giving him more ability to stay on the stage and gives your opponent more chances to screw up, allowing you to a better chance at single shotting them off the stage.
Imagine if instead we got a character <Skullkid or Vaati> who just had only kill moves with large lag and was a lightie with a bad recovery. I just name skullkid and Vaati because I think they would've been funny characters in brawl.
I'm assuming that in that sort of situation it would be much harder to use a light character with lots of high lag moves over a character with little lag moves, like Pit or MK.
Ganondorf is great for shock value and the ability to make your opponent play scared
Airwalkerr
Smash Journeyman
Ganondorf has no projectiles, and his biggest range move is the down+b, which isnt very big. His speed makes it hard to gain the upper hand on prjectile character, so he pretty much has to make them come to him, by playing mindgames. So not the worst, but has to over-come severe adversity to be good.
Iwan
Smash Ace
Meh...agreed. Although I don't believe Ganondorf is the worst character in the game. You know me tenki...A falcon main, so up until recently (as I've started using G-dorf frequently), I've been fairly biased in favor of falcon.
But I can't really say that anymore...I've been using Ganon a lot lately, and he's **** good. Really, I know they base tiers off of character attributes and how they match up with the rest of the cast, but doesn't anyone agree that Ganondorf has a huge amount of potential? He combos very, very well (imo)...and i really like him. So I don't think he's low tier, but of course, ultimately he'll end up there...barring some surprising decision from the smash back room.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
SBR likes him, for some reason. Seriously, he'll be low because he has too many bad matchups.
Rigor Mortis
Smash Journeyman
This is me speaking without dickriding falcon,
Im pretty sure a good falcon player would win
Im pretty sure a good falcon player would win
Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan!
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2008
- Messages
- 3
Ganondorf seems deadly in the right hands. (yes, I know that every character is deadly in the right hands, but he seems deadlier then some other characters) Although I don't main Ganondorf, I believe that auto-canceled Dair to Usmash does about 50%, right?
I don't know how difficult that would be to pull off in a competitive match, but I'm sure there could be other mini-combo's for Ganondorf that could work.
And, although I don't think he deserves to be placed with the likes of C. Falcon (sorry, Falcon fans), someone has to join Falcon with the bottom tiers for the moment until someone finds good strategies for both Ganondorf and Falcon.
I don't know how difficult that would be to pull off in a competitive match, but I'm sure there could be other mini-combo's for Ganondorf that could work.
And, although I don't think he deserves to be placed with the likes of C. Falcon (sorry, Falcon fans), someone has to join Falcon with the bottom tiers for the moment until someone finds good strategies for both Ganondorf and Falcon.
reading this thread, people keep saying he's slow and has no projectiles. This is true, but you have to take into account his ridiculous strength. With some mindgames doing damage and getting kills aren't a problem.
I've found myself getting shut down by my friends and getting about 60% racked up on me without hitting them, but when i can find a groove i can do that damage and more in a much shorter time.
i think the dark lord should be mid-tier, but i don't think he will be until we can rep for ganon at tournaments.
I've found myself getting shut down by my friends and getting about 60% racked up on me without hitting them, but when i can find a groove i can do that damage and more in a much shorter time.
i think the dark lord should be mid-tier, but i don't think he will be until we can rep for ganon at tournaments.
Hell, begining of a match, Flame choke, dtilt, flame choke, dtilt. 42% damage right off the bat against most people.
Flame choke is a good enough tech that it propels him above lowest tier right there
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Falcon has the advantage in that match-up... unfortunately.
Murder fist is his projectile!!!
But no, just imagine how bad it would be if GDorf really did have a projectile? O.O
Darkwolf1923
Smash Rookie
Murder Choke+Thunderstorming+Mindgames+WizardsFoot+Ganoncide= God Tier.
Ganondorf is Low Tier unless people play him like I DO! They can't play him like the SLOW FATASS he is.
I just want someone to give me their Wii Code/Brawl Code so i can murder them with Ganondorf. Maybe that will shut everyone up! I don't care what character they are! I'll kill them. And if you don't believe me..... then lets play, and see who wins.
Ganondorf is Low Tier unless people play him like I DO! They can't play him like the SLOW FATASS he is.
I just want someone to give me their Wii Code/Brawl Code so i can murder them with Ganondorf. Maybe that will shut everyone up! I don't care what character they are! I'll kill them. And if you don't believe me..... then lets play, and see who wins.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
Projectiles>>>Ganon. You're arrogant because your friends suck at this game. WFC sucks balls. I'm able to 3 stock people IRL that I lose to on WFC. Still, I might be interested in playing you, just to see how much you appreciate a campy Lucario, or Pit.
notftomearth7
Smash Lord
That's odd to me because Ganondorf is one of those guys that if you know how to use him, he can be a good fighter.
Projectiles are not the be all or end all of brawl. Sure there are characters and players better suited for camping but that won't win matches.
Take toon link for example. He can and most likely will projectile spam the hell out of ganondorf, but gdorf probably only needs about 5 hits to get him to a killing percentage. Just because toon link has great projectiles doesn't mean that ganondorf can't touch him.
And as for the campy lucario or pit, the same thing applies.
Overall it depends on the experience the gdorf player has. If they play smart, the camping is still a pain, but certainly not impossible to overcome.
:034:
Smash Hero
But seriously. Projectiles can screw Ganondorf over if the stage doesn't help you out. On Final Destination, a SHDL spamming Falco can really screw you over. Different layouts can help you out a bit, and knowing which attacks go through/clash with which projectiles. Learning to powershield helps as well. Run -> powershield -> run -> powershield.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Lol, I so wanted to do that, but you beat me to it.
But seriously. Projectiles can screw Ganondorf over if the stage doesn't help you out. On Final Destination, a SHDL spamming Falco can really screw you over. Different layouts can help you out a bit, and knowing which attacks go through/clash with which projectiles. Learning to powershield helps as well. Run -> powershield -> run -> powershield.
Yeah, powershielding. Timed Rolling also helps in my experience, but gannondorf has enormous difficult approaching projectile spammers that cause hitstun of any sort. At least without taking a lot of damage.
sweet pic dutchman! The hammer looks like he's got a sweet spot dodge.
i think the shl'ing is a lot slower in brawl than it was in melee, and a bit easier to get around. The lasers are slower and easier to get past. If you time your rolls and shields correctly it's possible to get by.
Side note: one of my best experiences with ganondorf is playing a campy wolf. his lasers are perfectly spaced out enough to thunderstorm over them like hurdles while approaching. it looks awesome and is effective too.
i think the shl'ing is a lot slower in brawl than it was in melee, and a bit easier to get around. The lasers are slower and easier to get past. If you time your rolls and shields correctly it's possible to get by.
Side note: one of my best experiences with ganondorf is playing a campy wolf. his lasers are perfectly spaced out enough to thunderstorm over them like hurdles while approaching. it looks awesome and is effective too.
mariofanpm12
Smash Ace
mariofanpm12
Smash Ace
agreed completely
ganon should b maybe mid tier if not high
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Don't listen...
There are far better ganondorf players out there that acknowledge his bottom tierness.
Honestly, here's the core of the issue, WHO DOES GANONDORF HAVE AN ADVANTAGE AGAINST?
There we go, what are ganondorf's advantagious matchups? How about neutrals? He needs to be good or neutral against at least 50% of the cast for mid...
Oh, and explain why of course.
Alternatively, you could use tournament wins, but I don't see that many...
Okay, I guess we aren't considering his ridiculous power an advantage against all characters.....
Gdorf does have reach on his side (compared to non-sword wielders). And generally, if you land one hit, it sets you up for other.
And the Ganoncide counts as an advantage!
Gdorf does have reach on his side (compared to non-sword wielders). And generally, if you land one hit, it sets you up for other.
And the Ganoncide counts as an advantage!
Blad01
Smash Lord
A good ganondorf can have advantages against a lot of characters : Marth (even); DK; Bowser; Charizard, Olimar, Ivysaur; Fox (even); Ike; Capt Falcon...
(Serious) disadvantage against Falco, ICs, Wolf, MK, Zelda, ROB....
I would say... 6:4 for Snake.
(Serious) disadvantage against Falco, ICs, Wolf, MK, Zelda, ROB....
I would say... 6:4 for Snake.
:034:
Smash Hero
Strength doesn't matter if you can't a hit on your opponent. If your opponent is faster than you are and plays it smart, good luck on that.
DK, Marth and Ike all outrange and outspeed Ganondorf. Fox, Ivysaur and Olimar have projectiles. No way he has an advantage over those.
I can see your point on Bowser, Charizard, Falcon and Ivy though. Bowser is a huge target and pretty sluggish, but Bowser is faster and has an easy infinite jump, firebreath (remember that any disjointed hitbox really harms Ganon), and that amazing up+b out of shield. Wouldn't know about Charizard and Falcon.. I imagine a smart Falcon can just run circles around Ganondorf and build up insane damage to kill him off. I want to play against a good Falcon sometime..
Ivysaur has more range, disjoints and a projectile but has two weak points: hard to use killing moves and the worst recovery in the game. On Ivysaur, after a Murder Choke, ftilt, dtilt and jab are garantueed. MC, ftilt him off the stage, edgeguard and/or edgehog.
You nailed the serious disadvantages, though. Except you forgot Dedede. Chaingrabbing is awesome.
Advantages I would say, smaller characters who don't have a lot of range. I don't play against a lot of these characters, but I can imagine an advantage against Squirtle and Kirby, even if it's minor.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
You mean to say that you wish your opponents were that bad.
Marth can gimp him. DK outranges him, AND can gimp/camp him. Bowser and Charizard have fire breath (trust me, it's really all they need, especially if you're near the edge), Olimar can outrange/camp you (and just ***** you in general), Ivysaur doesn't do too hot, actually, Fox dies super early, so he isn't ~too~ bad of a match-up, but still...
Ike outranges you, but is actually almost an even matchup, and CF outspeeds you, and can survive most things you throw at him, assuming you even hit him.
Squirtle is so **** small that it's a pain even hitting him, assuming you aren't fighting an idiot. Kirby can final cutter camp you, lulz. Also, if Kirby gets you off the edge, it's GG.
Having 3 **** match-ups is what put Ness and Yoshi so low on the tier list in Melee. Ganon has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than that.
Jekyll
Smash Ace
I think the worst part about projectiles is how they stop Ganon's recovery. Fox really isn't too bad in that way and Ivysaur's projectile really isn't much to worry about IMHO.
I read somewhere that Ganon could jab out of it. However that sounds ridiculous for such a slow character so I doubt it's true.Flying Dutchman said:
BUT
Ganon punishes the hell out of DDD's recovery. If DDD ever has to use his Up+B, there should be a Fair or Bair lined up for him at the peak of it or a Dair if they go for the edge.
I consider Falco, Lucario, Olimar and Metaknight to be Ganon's worst matchups. Lucario isn't awful if you can avoid being gimped at the edge, though.
One step down from those four would be Pikachu.
mariofanpm12
Smash Ace
i agree, i know hes slow and dooesn't have major advantages, but some ppl are just plain looking for things to criticise him for
eMORAY21
Smash Journeyman
Worst char by far in my eyes.
Blad01
Smash Lord
Ok, i guees i've to explain myself ^^
> Marth : Outspeed and outrange Ganondorf for the most of his moveset. BUT Jab, FTilt (and DownB if used rarely) can rivalise in terms of range and/or speed. Furthermore, Auto-Cancelled Dair **** Marth. In this match-up, the Ganondorf will have to shield, shield, then shield on the ground (to counter Side B, Double Fair, Up B), and then Side B, FTilt, Thunderstorming, or Jab Out Of Shield. And he will have to be aware of Marth's B move.
Marth doesn't have any projectiles. No problem here.
Off the stage, Marth has the disadvantage : Dair not easy to place, and very easy to avoid with a Dair/RAR UAir (More than we could imagine).
Also don't forget that Ganondorf is very heavy, and can resist to Marth Smashes. In contrary to Marth, who can't avoid the death against a Dair/ Fair/ Aerial DOwn B/ Smashes.
Also, i would add(i forgot that) that Dash Attack works well.
> DK : Hum, yeah that is not an advantage in Ganondorf's favor : DK has more range and speed with his Tilts... Maybe even, due to the horrible vertical recovery, and the fact that in the air, Ganondorf is according to me better (If he's in front of/ upon / below him of course... DK's Bair is ****).
> Bowser : I still think that Ganondorf has the advantage. Flamethrow is avoidable by Down B, Dair, Aerial Side B... Bowser can be very annoying... But yeah, Ganondorf too, i'd say ^^
> Charizard : Hum... Just played to a good Charizard, yes i mistook. His recovery has SA frames, i forgot that. Disadvantage here.
But don't forget that Charizard is a part of the Pokemon Trainer, who is also composed of Ivysaur (just below) and Squirtle. This last one is very light, and pretty easy to edgeguard.
> Ivysaur : Wow, so easy math-up, according to me. Awful projectile, pretty slow, so easy to Gerudo Flame / Thunderstorm. And SO easy to gimp his recovery... His USmash is powerful, but here again, don't forget Ganondorf's weight. (Plus, he can avoid STar KO by Jumping + Down B, if i believe Sliq guide. [I never tested it really...]).
> Olimar : I don't know why i put him in "advantages". It could be even, but... On the ground Olimar outrange Ganondorf. In the air, it's an other story... But if we add the Pikmin throw to rack up damage, this match-up is definitly in Olimar's favor.
> Fox : Even, like i said. Dies pretty early, projectile good to rack up damages but not dangerous, and pretty gimpable in the air (His side B is slower than Falco's, predictable, and can be outprioritized). A lot of his moves outspeed Ganondorf's: nbut Ganondorf outranges and has more power (And sometimes priority) than Fox.
> Ike : NO WAY this match-up is in Ike's favor. Guys, you overestimate this character... Yes, he has his Bair, his Utilt, and his USmash. But seriously, what else ? SO easy to gimp, it's laughable. And so easy to put off the stage with Special B to Jab/Ftilt.
> Capt. Falcon : I guess thios match-up is slightly in Falcon's favor. He has a lot more speed, but less priority/power. He's also pretty light.
Other good or even match-ups : Link, Squirtle, Yoshi (? I don't know for this one).
Also, i forgot DDK and Pit in the very bad math-up.
> Marth : Outspeed and outrange Ganondorf for the most of his moveset. BUT Jab, FTilt (and DownB if used rarely) can rivalise in terms of range and/or speed. Furthermore, Auto-Cancelled Dair **** Marth. In this match-up, the Ganondorf will have to shield, shield, then shield on the ground (to counter Side B, Double Fair, Up B), and then Side B, FTilt, Thunderstorming, or Jab Out Of Shield. And he will have to be aware of Marth's B move.
Marth doesn't have any projectiles. No problem here.
Off the stage, Marth has the disadvantage : Dair not easy to place, and very easy to avoid with a Dair/RAR UAir (More than we could imagine).
Also don't forget that Ganondorf is very heavy, and can resist to Marth Smashes. In contrary to Marth, who can't avoid the death against a Dair/ Fair/ Aerial DOwn B/ Smashes.
Also, i would add(i forgot that) that Dash Attack works well.
> DK : Hum, yeah that is not an advantage in Ganondorf's favor : DK has more range and speed with his Tilts... Maybe even, due to the horrible vertical recovery, and the fact that in the air, Ganondorf is according to me better (If he's in front of/ upon / below him of course... DK's Bair is ****).
> Bowser : I still think that Ganondorf has the advantage. Flamethrow is avoidable by Down B, Dair, Aerial Side B... Bowser can be very annoying... But yeah, Ganondorf too, i'd say ^^
> Charizard : Hum... Just played to a good Charizard, yes i mistook. His recovery has SA frames, i forgot that. Disadvantage here.
But don't forget that Charizard is a part of the Pokemon Trainer, who is also composed of Ivysaur (just below) and Squirtle. This last one is very light, and pretty easy to edgeguard.
> Ivysaur : Wow, so easy math-up, according to me. Awful projectile, pretty slow, so easy to Gerudo Flame / Thunderstorm. And SO easy to gimp his recovery... His USmash is powerful, but here again, don't forget Ganondorf's weight. (Plus, he can avoid STar KO by Jumping + Down B, if i believe Sliq guide. [I never tested it really...]).
> Olimar : I don't know why i put him in "advantages". It could be even, but... On the ground Olimar outrange Ganondorf. In the air, it's an other story... But if we add the Pikmin throw to rack up damage, this match-up is definitly in Olimar's favor.
> Fox : Even, like i said. Dies pretty early, projectile good to rack up damages but not dangerous, and pretty gimpable in the air (His side B is slower than Falco's, predictable, and can be outprioritized). A lot of his moves outspeed Ganondorf's: nbut Ganondorf outranges and has more power (And sometimes priority) than Fox.
> Ike : NO WAY this match-up is in Ike's favor. Guys, you overestimate this character... Yes, he has his Bair, his Utilt, and his USmash. But seriously, what else ? SO easy to gimp, it's laughable. And so easy to put off the stage with Special B to Jab/Ftilt.
> Capt. Falcon : I guess thios match-up is slightly in Falcon's favor. He has a lot more speed, but less priority/power. He's also pretty light.
Other good or even match-ups : Link, Squirtle, Yoshi (? I don't know for this one).
Also, i forgot DDK and Pit in the very bad math-up.
Ekoix.exe
Smash Ace
Best char by far in my eyes, I mean its HNNNNGANONDORF, no other character exerts so much win. Gawsh, In my eyes, Ganonciding has become God Tier. On a more serious note, He's awesome because of the pure gimping factor.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
Guize, I have a hint for you: Autocancelled dair can be punished.
GG, oldmanondorf.
GG, oldmanondorf.
Ekoix.exe
Smash Ace
So don't use it that much?