Still considered low?

[gantrain05]

Ganondorf > all other brawl characters ^^ he just exudes way more awesomness than every other character. i think that puts him in top tier lol

 

[dlen06]

I think the tiers are going to be harder to predict in brawl. The glaring advantages that existed in melee aren't as present in brawl. Characters are more evenly matched. So many characters have potential to be in the high tiers, and there's even great competition for the low tier spots as well.

Brawl was only released about 3 months ago. There are probably still some discoveries to be made that could change the game for every character.

Bottom line is that I believe it's too early to discuss tiers and character placement in them.


Side Note: Does anyone know how long after the release of melee the wavedash was discovered?

 

[Blad01]

Side Note: Does anyone know how long after the release of melee the wavedash was discovered?

From the beta test of the game %)

What i mean is that Sakurai knew that Wavedash was possible. But in Brawl, he clearly announced that he wanted a game where noobs and pros are at the same level. So, i don't think that a magic technique will be ever discovered.

 

[:034:]

> Bowser : I still think that Ganondorf has the advantage. Flamethrow is avoidable by Down B, Dair, Aerial Side B... Bowser can be very annoying... But yeah, Ganondorf too, i'd say ^^

Since when does Murder Choke go through Firebreath? You technically dive right into a projectile.

> Charizard : Hum... Just played to a good Charizard, yes i mistook. His recovery has SA frames, i forgot that. Disadvantage here.
But don't forget that Charizard is a part of the Pokemon Trainer, who is also composed of Ivysaur (just below) and Squirtle. This last one is very light, and pretty easy to edgeguard.

Fly is also a killing move. SA frames AND a good kill move? What was Sakurai thinking?

> Fox : Even, like i said. Dies pretty early, projectile good to rack up damages but not dangerous, and pretty gimpable in the air (His side B is slower than Falco's, predictable, and can be outprioritized). A lot of his moves outspeed Ganondorf's: nbut Ganondorf outranges and has more power (And sometimes priority) than Fox.

I could agree on a 6/4 in Fox's favor, if only because he can chain dair to uptilt to upsmash, which kills WAY too early for a supposedly 'fast but weak' character. Ganondorf does have more range and really eats through some of his attacks, and techchasing works pretty well because of a short roll.

> Ike : NO WAY this match-up is in Ike's favor. Guys, you overestimate this character... Yes, he has his Bair, his Utilt, and his USmash. But seriously, what else ? SO easy to gimp, it's laughable. And so easy to put off the stage with Special B to Jab/Ftilt.

Haha, play against Empy then tell me Ike is overestimated. Ike barges through any attack, nair autocancels and stops rolling, hell even a fair approach works against Ganondorf because he's so ****in' slow. You can't gimp Aether (which every Ike will subsequently go for rather than Quick Draw) because it'll spike you.

Guize, I have a hint for you: Autocancelled dair can be punished.

GG, oldmanondorf.

Which is why you don't spam it. :3

 

[Blad01]

Haha, play against Empy then tell me Ike is overestimated. Ike barges through any attack, nair autocancels and stops rolling, hell even a fair approach works against Ganondorf because he's so ****in' slow. You can't gimp Aether (which every Ike will subsequently go for rather than Quick Draw) because it'll spike you.

Nair autocanceled is good. But it stops rolling ? Well, i never roll, it's too much gimpable and predictable. When i roll (very rarely), it's away the opponent.
Fair is slow, horrible.
For these two attacks : Sheild (then Out Of shield attack, like Side B by example), Fair, Slutter Step FSmash work WONDER.

Against a good Ganondorf, Ike won't use Aether, he will be too far away. (Fsmash, Ftilt; Side B to Jab, FThrow, Grounded Down B...).
But if Ike uses Aether, you can just very easily hang the ledge with the Side B...

Ah ah, so easy (Sorry, but this opponent makes me laugh every time ^^")

 

[:034:]

Nair autocanceled is good. But it stops rolling ? Well, i never roll, it's too much gimpable and predictable. When i roll (very rarely), it's away the opponent.

Problem is, if you're near the edge, you can't roll away, so nair to jab to grab to fair edgeguard will work plenty of times.

Fair is slow, horrible.
For these two attacks : Sheild (then Out Of shield attack, like Side B by example),

Side B out of shield isn't fast enough. Jab is, but you might get pushed a way too far. Wouldn't know about SS fsmash.

 

[Blad01]

Problem is, if you're near the edge, you can't roll away, so nair to jab to grab to fair edgeguard will work plenty of times.

And if i shield, like i said ? I think i just fall of the edge, then hang the ledge.

And the "if you near the edge" works with everybody ^^ If you are near the ledge, and you get Flame Choked you just have two options (In the middle, you have three).

Same, if you are near the edge, a Down-Smash can get you for sure ^^ (Or put you in the ledge hogging position)

Side B out of shield isn't fast enough. Jab is, but you might get pushed a way too far. Wouldn't know about SS fsmash

Against Ike, Side B out of shield is largely fast enough. But you're right, not against an AC Nair. But what will you do after this Nair ? If you shield, the side B get you. If you jab, you win. But if Ganondorf has also others options ^^ (I just have to verify how far the Nair against a shield sends Ganon fly).

 

[dlen06]

What i mean is that Sakurai knew that Wavedash was possible. But in Brawl, he clearly announced that he wanted a game where noobs and pros are at the same level. So, i don't think that a magic technique will be ever discovered.

I see.

In ganon's case, i see him being anywhere from mid to low tier, but the characters all seem more balanced, and it's going to be harder to place anyone in tiers this early on. It'll be interesting to see where everyone is in a few years when we have more tourney results and the pace of the game kind of steadies itself.