Starting roster already revealed (SamuraiPanda's Conspiracy Theoracy) [Final Update]

[Crescent]

raul makes an interesting point. There really is nothing we can do but wait until the Japanese release date (or until the CoroCoro thing on Saturday, if those rumors are true).

The "Theoracy" is very sound though, and from the points you've made I can very easily see this being the starting roster. Kudos to you, SamuraiPanda.

 

[raul]

raul makes an interesting point. There really is nothing we can do but wait until the Japanese release date (or until the CoroCoro thing on Saturday, if those rumors are true).

The "Theoracy" is very sound though, and from the points you've made I can very easily see this being the starting roster. Kudos to you, SamuraiPanda.

See now you bring up the corocoro thing, and although this question isn't aimed directly at you, I have to ask...where does everyone get the idea that this CoroCoro comic or whatever it is, is a reliable source of information? Some people have stated that the comic has released information already known.

If I stick with MY thoery that Sakurai is holding out on the information till the Japanese release date, then here's what I see...

First, I do not have this great knowledge of the Japanese business markets like everyone else does on these forums, so I see no direct connection between this comic book and Nintedno/Sakurai. And since I do not see this connection it makes me believe secondly, that Sakurai would not allow any more NEW information out the game because 1.) He would rather be the one to "spill the beans" and 2.) He may still be trying to with hold information until the Japan release date.

It seems like alot of members of this forum have the knowledge of the Japan business market, Japanese preferences and such, (where they get this information, no idea) so unless someone can prove to me otherwise, I really dont see CoroCoro being anything worthwhile.

 

[Boofer]

I agree with you there, Raul. I don't think Coro Coro will reveal anything new (except maybe a few unrevealed moves). However that doesn't mean that they don't have direct contact with Sakurai. Perhaps Sakurai simply told them what he's been saying on the dojo and maybe a little bit more?

 

[raul]

I agree with you there, Raul. I don't think Coro Coro will reveal anything new (except maybe a few unrevealed moves). However that doesn't mean that they don't have direct contact with Sakurai. Perhaps Sakurai simply told them what he's been saying on the dojo and maybe a little bit more?

Oh no, I understand what you are saying. My point was for people not too over indulge in this Coro Coro crap. No one has concrete evidence of any kind of connection with Sakurai, so i wouldn't believe we would get all these great updates we did not get on the Dojo. However, you are making a very valid point. Perhaps they talked to Sakurai and he gave them basic DOJO info with some extra movesets we dont already have, like Zelda, Yoshi, Pikachu, etc. Again these movesets don't seem to be the worthwhile information the majority of the members of this forum cared for.

 

[Bajef8]

you have a really valid point with the unlockable zelda thing, but i think that it still won't matter with the cage thing. remember in the video after kirby saved peach and zelda was captured by wario? it's very possible that you could end up fighting wario later on to get zelda.

 

[Ginger9001]

uuum all i have to say is

discuss

Boom. Headshot.

 

[Mr. Game and Pichu]

uuum all i have to say is

discuss

i dont get it

 

[Fenris_Wolf]

I personally sort of want this theory to be true. I enjoy unlocking a lot of characters, and fewer starting characters==more unlockables.

 

[Boofer]

fewer starting characters==more unlockables.

not necessarily...

 

[InvincibleAgent]

i dont get it

Plomid's saying Melee demo character select screen =/= Melee released game character select screen, therefore Brawl demo character select screen may not be final either.

 

[XCWarrior]

I personally sort of want this theory to be true. I enjoy unlocking a lot of characters, and fewer starting characters==more unlockables.

As torn as I am about whether or not I like the theory, this is a good point. If we have to unlock, say, 20 characters, that would be kind of cool.

If we can unlock them in like 6 hours tough, that would kind of stink. I know I'm in the minority, but I want some depth and have to work for some of the characters/stages. Getting it all at once (in a sense) takes away the surprises of the game.

 

[susu_atari]

For those who don't know and can't work out what the pic is, it's the Melee demo.

 

[Boofer]

As torn as I am about whether or not I like the theory, this is a good point. If we have to unlock, say, 20 characters, that would be kind of cool.

If we can unlock them in like 6 hours tough, that would kind of stink. I know I'm in the minority, but I want some depth and have to work for some of the characters/stages. Getting it all at once (in a sense) takes away the surprises of the game.

Well, having fewer starters can be interpreted a couple of different ways. Here are my feelings on the subject:

My personal gripe with having such a small starting roster is that it seems to point at overall fewer characters than I expected. That is why I don't like it.

I don't see Sakurai going anywhere near 40 characters if we only got 15 starters. In the previous games, the amount of unlockables were less than the amount of starters. Now, I mean there is still a chance of him making slightly more secrets than starters, but I doubt it. Do you honestly se him giving us 25 secret characters if we only have 15 starters?

I know everybody is going to say "this is not melee, it is Brawl, so it could change" blahh blah blah. Yeah, it could change, but what can be supported? Obviously the one that says there will be less secrets than starters, or at the most, just as many secrets.

Though it would be cool to have more secrets than starters, nothing suggests that we would have that many. In fact, SSB and SSBM show that it's quite the contrary. Of course this is speculation as well, but it's certainly not baseless.

 

[mystryman150]

if your right this will make Coro Coros news much less exciting

 

[WaterToFire]

Well, having fewer starters can be interpreted a couple of different ways. Here are my feelings on the subject:
Though it would be cool to have more secrets than starters, nothing suggests that we would have that many. In fact, SSB and SSBM show that it's quite the contrary. Of course this is speculation as well, but it's certainly not baseless.

Yes, I feel the same way.

 

[gigasteve]

Your theory is wrong, and I have gathered facts and evidence to prove it (refer to sig).

 

[Cless]

Good job. Why don't you post something constructive, or your reasoning.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I'm in the middle of finals week(s) right now, so I'm going to hold off on posting more counter arguments for a bit (because they will lead to more counter arguments; its a vicious cycle). Just a couple things for now though.

First off, thanks to everyone who has debated in a civil, intelligent manner. I appreciate your posts (even though many are repeats, but I don't expect you to read through everything) and I have every intention of replying (eventually...).

Second off, for those questioning my actions as moderator: The only threads that were locked stated "OMG its the starting roster!" followed by 30 "Idiot, its the demo screen" and often finished by a "oh, my bad. lock plz." Not a single thread had attempted to speculate why it might indeed be the starting roster. So stop with this holier than thou act where you all pretend to know more about what constitutes an appropriate thread. If you think your thread, or a perfectly good thread, was locked without reason, then PM the mod, a super-mod, an admin, or even take it to the forum disputes (which is the reason it exists). If it was truly a thread worth keeping open, then it should be no problem getting it unlocked. This is likely the final post I will make about moderating.


Also, before I forget. I just thought of something interesting for all those people who use compare the Melee demo to the Brawl demo. The Melee demo didn't have any unlockable characters available. The Brawl demo has Sonic. Is Sonic really going to be unlockable? And if he is, then doesn't that evidence in itself refute any argument that the Melee demo roster can be compared to the Brawl demo roster?

 

[Crescent]

See now you bring up the corocoro thing, and although this question isn't aimed directly at you, I have to ask...where does everyone get the idea that this CoroCoro comic or whatever it is, is a reliable source of information? Some people have stated that the comic has released information already known.

If I stick with MY thoery that Sakurai is holding out on the information till the Japanese release date, then here's what I see...

First, I do not have this great knowledge of the Japanese business markets like everyone else does on these forums, so I see no direct connection between this comic book and Nintedno/Sakurai. And since I do not see this connection it makes me believe secondly, that Sakurai would not allow any more NEW information out the game because 1.) He would rather be the one to "spill the beans" and 2.) He may still be trying to with hold information until the Japan release date.

It seems like alot of members of this forum have the knowledge of the Japan business market, Japanese preferences and such, (where they get this information, no idea) so unless someone can prove to me otherwise, I really dont see CoroCoro being anything worthwhile.

CoroCoro comics has been a pretty reliable source of info in the past. I believe they released about 75% of the 4th gen Pokemon before Diamond and Pearl were even announced (to paraphrase from SMYN) and so I think it's quite likely that they will divulge some bit of new info regarding the roster on the 15th. We'll just have to wait and see...

 

[flyinfilipino]

Also, before I forget. I just thought of something interesting for all those people who use compare the Melee demo to the Brawl demo. The Melee demo didn't have any unlockable characters available. The Brawl demo has Sonic. Is Sonic really going to be unlockable? And if he is, then doesn't that evidence in itself refute any argument that the Melee demo roster can be compared to the Brawl demo roster?

I think by now, that if you don't know Sonic is going to be in Brawl, you don't care or you live under a rock. What Sakurai said about Sonic being playable at E4A means that either he decided to reveal Sonic early but let him be playable to reduce and mystery about him, or maybe he's come to the conclusion that it might be a better idea to have him as a starting character.

 

[XACE-K]

Your theory is wrong, and I have gathered facts and evidence to prove it (refer to sig).

Any more(hopefully good) facts?

 

[Chepe]

Well, Sakurai was uneasy about having Sonic in the demo. He might be a special case because of his recent revelation...

 

[Super_alex2]

I completely agree with you, actually, I WANT it to be true. I think it would be lots of fun to unlock that many characters, and you have so much info to back it up, I can't help but follow.

 

[notftomearth7]

I must say that to me, that select screen is complete BS as far as playable character are concerned. I mean, I never thought I'd live to see the day where Sonic would be in the starting roster and not Snake. I mean, it just seems right that Snake should and Wario should be in the character select screen from the start, considering they were part of the original eight announced.

 

[Cless]

Snake is not Sonic. Not nearly as many people know who Snake is.

 

[Kurizu208]

I think if he is going to all the trouble to make a small starting roster he should just make it the original 8. and maybe 4 newcomers idk. I like you and your theory but i have to agree with raul on everything.

 

[gigasteve]

I just spent an hour typing many reasons that you are wrong, but my STUPID Wii browser logged me out. So I will shorten what I previously typed.
1. Snake was shown in an online match.
2. Sakurai has used many of his updates showing characters that weren't in the demo.
3. READ MY THREAD. It was closed for stupid reasons, but it shows evidence and WORDS FROM Sakurai that prove your theory wrong. My thread is at http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?=130234

 

[Cless]

1) Doesn't mean anything. Everyone knows Snake is in the game. Could be a screenshot from testing how the online works with all the characters or something.

2) Also doesn't mean anything. He announced them on the dojo and thusly can be used. That has no correlation on whether or not said characters are starters.

3) Why didn't you link your thread?

 

[raul]

CoroCoro comics has been a pretty reliable source of info in the past. I believe they released about 75% of the 4th gen Pokemon before Diamond and Pearl were even announced (to paraphrase from SMYN) and so I think it's quite likely that they will divulge some bit of new info regarding the roster on the 15th. We'll just have to wait and see...

See, now I have heard that Coro Coro is reliable on repeating already known information so yeah, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[gigasteve]

1) Doesn't mean anything. Everyone knows Snake is in the game. Could be a screenshot from testing how the online works with all the characters or something.

2) Also doesn't mean anything. He announced them on the dojo and thusly can be used. That has no correlation on whether or not said characters are starters.

3) Why didn't you link your thread?

I know those 2 reasons aren't much, but I posted my thread. Those 2 were minor things I thought of after my thread was closed.

 

[Sage of Pwnage]

first thing i do is I will play some training mode and zip through the adventure mode and that will be my starting roster!

 

[plasman]

Without further ado, here are arguments often made by people, and my counter arguments:

1. This is the same character selection screen from the demo. Its obviously for demonstration purposes only.

First of all, we aren’t “supposed” to have known about the character selection screen. The Dojo is NOT tailored for people who broke down and analyzsed everything in the E4All demo, it is tailored for everyone else. So the normal response to that screenshot would be “Oh, that’s the starting roster.” Not, “Oh, that’s from the demo so it can’t be real.” Also, it isn’t strange at all for the demo to use the starting roster. They aren’t going to change up the character select screen all of a sudden.

EDIT: When I said that, I meant that they won't drastically change the initial character select screen before the game comes out because now every casual player and non-American (remember, the demo update only on the American version) thinks they have seen the character select screen.

I just want to make a counter-argument to the argument that you were counter-arguing. If that makes sense: the Nintendo Media Summit that happened on October 11th and BEFORE E for ALL had video of Brawl available that day which had the same character selection screen. And because of that we were generally expected to know this particular character select screen since there was no embargo on Brawl information after the summit. People can read into that what they will but I just felt it should be noted that the character select screen in the state it was presented on the Dojo update was shown before E for All and in a manner that was expected to be shared freely.

 

[PITforREV]

If unlocking characters is too easy by just playing through the SSE, it almost wouldn't be as fun as trying to accomplish a difficult task, and kirby has to be a starting charcater, unlocking him in the first level of the SSE would just be pointless

Agreed, part of what makes smash so great is the anticipation of unlocking characters, playing thorugh and kind of getting characters as you go would be rather dull to me. Particularly when it involves characters such as kirby, on the first level. A few should be unlocked through subspace but the majorty shoudl not...sadly, this wont be the case-most will be unlocked through subspace.. I also feel like unlocking dedede thorugh playing event one would be ridiculous...wheres the challenge in that? It almost wouldnt even be a big deal, like secret characters are supposed to be.

 

[NukeA6]

This thread will end in failure. I bet my membership here that the roster is from the demo rather than what you start with.

 

[Brockman5]

I don't know now, SP did have some pretty cobnvincing statements but, some of them seem like he was just desperate for an answer, but it does all fit together...:???

 

[Symphony X]

I'm willing to bet everything that this is just the demo roster, not the starting roster.

 

[RegalBuster]

It is the demo roster it's so god **** obvious that it is.

 

[blayde_axel]

It is the demo roster it's so god **** obvious that it is.

This is true. But Samurai was just posting a "possibility."

Then again, ANYTHING could be a possibility. Doesn't mean it needs to be threadizied then explained through conspiracy evidence.

 

[raul]

Where does Diddy Kong fit into that whole theory?

 

[EPX2]

I had supporting facts though. You can try to kill it all you want, but it goes hand in hand with Conspiracy Theoracy. You can believe it or you can't. We'll see who's right in the end. I just wanted to show my viewpoint on Brawl. Trust me, I'd love to have more characters in Brawl then ever, but from my view it's hard to see them having more much more. Seriously, all the characters on Brawl are starters? C'mon. That's just impossible.

I forgot to touch on Shiek in Brawl. I just need to say that TP has had a VERY HEAVY influence on Brawl. So it's a little hard to see TP Zelda changing into OoT Shiek. Some say she'll change to Midna. That's kinda weird.

Brawl is Sakurai's "swan song" for the SSB series. It's safe to say that after the release of SSBB, he's done with the franchise. Why exactly do you think he would not try to please his fans as much as possible? Including only 30 characters when there's so many more that can be added to Brawl would just be ridiculous. I'm sorry, but expecting 30 is just as unrealistic as expecting 70 or so.

Also, this isn't TP Zelda, it's SSB Zelda. SSB Zelda has already demonstrated that she has the ability to transform into Sheik, so why wouldn't she retain that ability in Brawl? Because she has what essentially amounts to nothing more than a new default costume?