Starting roster already revealed (SamuraiPanda's Conspiracy Theoracy) [Final Update]

[raul]

Here's the bottomline: We don't know anything. There is no way to argue a way for or against the theories of anyone on this forum because we have no proof. No one wants to use patterns and equations to figure things out, and I don't blame them, and no one wants to consider anything that Sakurai has done in the past two games because of the fact that he can "change" things. Its a human element of unpredictability that makes this whole thing nearly impossible to determine.

We say Kirby to be a starter because he always has been, we have no other evidence to back that up. But others say that he can be quickly unlockable, well what is the benefit to that? Why would he be made lockable? Because Meta-Knight is bad *** and people are intrigued by him to play him right away? That's our argument? How bad-*** a character is? That zero-logic behind it. We are willing to accept that argument over what has been previously known in games made in the past? Maybe I've wasted my time, but that doesn't add up to me.

We can't determine anything because no one can predict what Sakurai is thinking. If SP is right, so be it and if he isn't he wouldn't be alone in making a theory proved false.

It boils down to either:

1.) Sakurai sticks with what he has done in the past
OR
2.) Sakurai totally changes everything he has done in the past.

And guess what....we have no evidence that he is doing either of those things. We have no hard evidence of any kind other than assumptions, specualtion, references to previous games (SSB games of course) and the Updates we already have.

If someone doesn't like this argument then they fight against and destroy with either of the points made above (labeled 1 and 2 for convience). This will go back and forth untilt he Japanese release date for there is no hard evidence to rely on. We have no interviews from Sakurai or game developers or Nintendo officials and spokesmen. We have nothing but our assumptions and references and yet everyone destroys those with points 1 and 2 above.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

i'd say the same thing if Mario was the one that had to be unlocked, even if he was in the first match.

umlocking characters purely for the sake of unlocking them is bull****. SP's post does'nt offer any solid reason why a character like Kirby would be locked off the bat. you fight him first? YOu could fight Mario first, but the plumber is still unlocked from the beginning. And, unlike every other character unlocked according to SP's theory, Kirby is the franchise character. I doubt he would be locked in favor of a character who, subjectively, could be considered cooler. and there's been no good reasoning to show otherwise

Yet another emotional response... *sigh* ... Look, no one has to agree with SP's theory. Everyone is entitled their own opinion, but these are not valid counter arguments to the theoracy! This is not "proof" of it being wrong. This is just people not wanting to play single-player mode for all of 10 minutes to go unlock Kirby. Is it really that painful? Is it really that hard to accept that Sakurai just might be trying something different? Snake is arguably the coolest character on the roster, but heaven forbid, he is has to be unlocked! This is why we have the DOJO! The DOJO shows off all the characters we will be able to play! The unlocking part is just a ritual.

 

[RegalBuster]

Yet another emotional response... *sigh* ... Look, no one has to agree with SP's theory. Everyone is entitled their own opinion, but these are not valid counter arguments to the theoracy! This is not "proof" of it being wrong. This is just people not wanting to play single-player mode for all of 10 minutes to go unlock Kirby. Is it really that painful? Is it really that hard to accept that Sakurai just might be trying something different? Snake is arguably the coolest character on the roster, but heaven forbid, he is has to be unlocked! This is why we have the DOJO! The DOJO shows off all the characters we will be able to play! The unlocking part is just a ritual.

Are you stupid? It's not an emotional response your just labeling good reasons why it's not the starter roster as emotional responses you you can think that your theory is right, when it's not.

 

[Classic-Black]

it's not a emotional response. if Kirby actually ends up being locked, then i'll unlock him, no big deal. that doesn't change the fact that he's the main character of a franchise that uses his name. and when the only reason why he's unlocked boils down to "he's the first person you fight" and "metaknight's cooler" it doesn't say much.

 

[raul]

it's not a emotional response. if Kirby actually ends up being locked, then i'll unlock him, no big deal. that doesn't change the fact that he's the main character of a franchise that uses his name. and when the only reason why he's unlocked boils down to "he's the first person you fight" and "metaknight's cooler" it doesn't say much.

Finally, someone has made the best point here. Coolness of a character is a BS argument. It has been in every other thread ever made on this forum and thus, applies to this one.

 

[i rise]

i'm pretty sure buzz doesn't completely support this theory, he's just saying no one has a sound argument against it which is true.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

it's not a emotional response. if Kirby actually ends up being locked, then i'll unlock him, no big deal. that doesn't change the fact that he's the main character of a franchise that uses his name. and when the only reason why he's unlocked boils down to "he's the first person you fight" and "metaknight's cooler" it doesn't say much.

But how do you know that those are the reasons? I agree that it is safe to assume that based on previous installments main characters start out unlocked, but such arguments have no place when discussing theories. Think about this: the Melee demo had only characters that were unlocked (even though the final game had a few more characters on top of that). However, the Brawl demo had many characters we assume to be locked. Obviously, something is different. That is where this theory comes into play. However, rather than take note of that difference, everyone just says, "Oh well, that's just silly. Sakurai just wanted different characters for the demo."

 

[raul]

i'm pretty sure buzz doesn't even support this theory, he's just saying no one has a sound argument against it which is true.

That's fine, but that also isn't the point at issue. The reason we have no "sound" argument is because no one is will to accept anything anyone brings up because in our minds we have narrowed down our options to:

1.) Sakurai is developing Brawl like he has developed the other Smash games in the past
OR
2.) Sakurai is developing the Brawl game completely differently from the other Smash games.

And since we have no evidence to either, we'll just go in circles forever.

 

[i rise]

i agree that's pretty much true. this could go on forever and probably will until the thread is spammed like crazy and is closed. it seems that's how everything people talk about on the brawl forums goes lately.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Why did the Melee demo not include Ganondorf or Mewtwo?

 

[raul]

i agree that's pretty much true. this could go on forever and probably will until the thread is spammed like crazy and is closed. it seems that's how everything people talk about on the brawl forums goes lately.

Can't blame them either. We have nothing to talk about. How long can we discuss possible characters and create our own rosters? How much insight can we find in the "options menu" of brawl? We've already got a thread about what the "vault" is. I mean come on. We have noting new to discuss because stages and characters are not there to discuss.
And forget talking about music. Its a question of whether you like it or not and thats the end of that talk.
The updates are killing everyone on this forum sadly. I pray for the Japan release date, or one good update to save our souls.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

LOL @ "Yes, Meta Knight is top tier" update from Sakurai

Now that would start some serious speculation.

 

[Classic-Black]

But how do you know that those are the reasons? I agree that it is safe to assume that based on previous installments main characters start out unlocked, but such arguments have no place when discussing theories. Think about this: the Melee demo had only characters that were unlocked (even though the final game had a few more characters on top of that). However, the Brawl demo had many characters we assume to be locked. Obviously, something is different. That is where this theory comes into play. However, rather than take note of that difference, everyone just says, "Oh well, that's just silly. Sakurai just wanted different characters for the demo."

Sp's theory said as much. Sakurai might have entirely different reasons for locking Kirby, but I doubt he'd do that because of his modesty. SO really, why not lock Mario. YOu'd fight him at the same time you do Kirby, so it would make just as much sense if Mario was locked then, wouldn't it? And the brawl demo had three of the four core characters from the trailer. Those three and Kirby have been on every starting roster since the series' birth. Even ignoring that, those three are considered the main characters for their franchises. So how does it make sense that, according to this theory, the star of a franchise is bumped off the starting roster for a "cooler" member of the supporting cast?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Sp's theory said as much. Sakurai might have entirely different reasons for locking Kirby, but I doubt he'd do that because of his modesty. SO really, why not lock Mario. YOu'd fight him at the same time you do Kirby, so it would make just as much sense if Mario was locked then, wouldn't it? And the brawl demo had three of the four core characters from the trailer. Those three and Kirby have been on every starting roster since the series' birth. Even ignoring that, those three are considered the main characters for their franchises. So how does it make sense that, according to this theory, the star of a franchise is bumped off the starting roster for a "cooler" member of the supporting cast?

Well, I believe the problem is that you are placing too much weight/importance on "the starting roster". Unlike you, I don't see characters that are hidden as greater or lesser value than those who are not. There are no subtle implications with being on the starting roster. Nintendo is randomly obsessed with forcing players to unlock characters in just about every game now. Why does being hidden or starting have to mean something? Sakurai may have just wanted to give players a reason to play the SSE and nothing more. What better way than to lock away everyone's beloved Kirby?

 

[raul]

So how does it make sense that, according to this theory, the star of a franchise is bumped off the starting roster for a "cooler" member of the supporting cast?

You said it all to me right there.

 

[i rise]

it makes sense that he wants to have a lot of unlockables through SSE, and no one would be excited to start the game up and see a limited roster of only veterans. i'd be let down by that because it's a new game and i would rather try out some of the new characters (meta-knight) instead of veterans (kirby). he's gotta hide some veterans too. much like jigglypuff and luigi in melee.

 

[2nd Stamp]

"King Dedede has finally arrived"

That sounds like "We have all the characters now! Want to see us discuss their origins, looks and moves?"

I honestly think I'm right.

I hope not.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Either way, as long as the game features 40+ characters, I'm happy. ^_^

 

[raul]

it makes sense that he wants to have a lot of unlockables through SSE, and no one would be excited to start the game up and see a limited roster of only veterans. he's gotta hide some veterans too. much like jigglypuff and luigi in melee.

No I agree with that. But not Kirby whose been one of the original 8 from the last two games. Sakurai could make Pit and Wario and others newcomers on the starting roster quite easily by simply adding 3-5 spots on the starting roster.

 

[i rise]

i don't think it sounds like that.

i think it sounds like a lot of people anticipated him to be in and he was finally announced. i don't anyone has to worry about the amount of characters on the roster. i think our hype for the game makes people look too into things.

Either way, as long as the game features 40+ characters, I'm happy. ^_^

that's how i look at it. i'll be happy with a nice big roster with some of my favorites even if kirby were the last unlockable in the game.

 

[Classic-Black]

Well, I believe the problem is that you are placing too much weight/importance on "the starting roster". Unlike you, I don't see characters that are hidden as greater or lesser value than those who are not. There are no subtle implications with being on the starting roster. Nintendo is randomly obsessed with forcing players to unlock characters in just about every game now. Why does being hidden or starting have to mean something? Sakurai may have just wanted to give players a reason to play the SSE and nothing more. What better way than to lock away everyone's beloved Kirby?

SO the Subspace Emissary can't stand on it's own legs without nonsensicle unlockables? You know what would be a great incentive to play the SSE? lock away everyone's favorite plumber, the one with the Red Shirt.

And your also saying that unlockables don't mean anything? I'd beg to differ, but that would be getting off topic. Plus, Metaknight being on the main screen kinda stabs that theory in the gut. Since even throwing out the "starting roster" the opening cast is still composed of "the Franchise player" and, in most cases, a supporting cast member or two. Kirby is still the franchise player, that's an unbiased fact. the other three franchise players that were in the demo were also members of the "starting roster" for both of the previous games, also fact.

Now, can you logically give me a reason why Kirby is locked when a support character from his franchise is not? I'd like to hear it

Also, going back to the unlockable thing, i'm pretty sure most view them as a reward, or achievement for something. now, i'd have to poll more than the five or so people SP did to come to his conclusion that Sonic would make a better bullet point than Snake, but i'm pretty confident the majority of gamers do not think like you.

 

[trio1000]

You stole my idea!!!

isnt kirby in the first SSE match? if so then shouldnt he be a starter

or maybe just maybe, that is the starting roster and kirby is the first unlockable in SSE cuz sakurai said he wasnt too hung up on unlockable chars so he is making it extra easy to get most of them

just speculation

anyways if this is true then there isnt a good chance to be around 50 characters as some ppl believe(i think 30-35) because he is already reavealing secret characters on the dojo then theres a good chance that he will reveal the entier cast before the release. this in turn adds to the theory that the full cast will be revealed on dec 15

 

[raul]

You stole my idea!!!



anyways if this is true then there isnt a good chance to be around 50 characters as some ppl believe(i think 30-35) because he is already reavealing secret characters on the dojo then theres a good chance that he will reveal the entier cast before the release. this in turn adds to the theory that the full cast will be revealed on dec 15

Oh wow, I overlooked that. That is a very good point as well.

 

[Classic-Black]

I'm pretty happy about the game regardless...'cept that it comes out a few days after NMH.

personal belief for the initial roster is E4All, plus the trailers.

 

[Danielman]

I Don't think this is the starting roster.Why?

Because:

1)Don't you think Sakurai would've placed The other characters he has already anounnced Here, And not the roster from the demo?I mean, the reason unlockables are there, are to be SECRET.(This is of course, assuming He's Not going to tell us who the unlockables are)

2)Why wouldnt he make an update for this, I mean, it's justified right?

and

3)Why not confirm any of the previous unlockables? In that roster, No one has ever been an unlockable in any of the previous games.Kirby, has been announced,but he's not there,so it would be more of nuisance than a desire to unlock him.

Edit: I think I made the same point twice

Edit 2:I'm just saying I don't think this is the starting roster.

 

[Dr. UnKnown]

I Don't think this is the starting roster.Why?

Because:

1)Don't you think Sakurai would've placed The other characters he has already anounnced Here, And not the roster from the demo?I mean, the reason unlockables are there, are to be SECRET.(This is of course, assuming He's Not going to tell us who the unlockables are)

2)Why wouldnt he make an update for this, I mean, it's justified right?

and

3)Why not confirm any of the previous unlockables? In that roster, No one has ever been an unlockable in any of the previous games.Kirby, has been announced,but he's not there,so it would be more of nuisance than a desire to unlock him.

Edit: I think I made the same point twice

all of those arguments have already been countered.....

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

So what? Who cares if Ridley is a starter while Samus is hidden? Did you read the theoracy all the way through? The idea is that you unlock characters really fast as opposed to bending over backwards to unlock some uber character. Why is this so hard to grasp onto? Sure, it doesn't make sense to us, but you still offer no real logic to the situation. It cracks me up how every counter argument revolves around "there is no reason" and "it doesn't make sense".

Unlocking characters really fast would be lame, especially if the first ones are beginning starters. Would it really do Subspace good to have what, 10 minutes into the game and already unlocking two characters, who happen to be veterans? Eh... I don't think so. And a starting roster that lacks Kirby and Zelda because you're supposed to unlock them is a hindrance to multiplayer, for those want to begin with it and move onto Subspace later.

And yes, Sakurai did say that most characters will be unlocked through the Subspace Emissary, but that doesn't mean that the SSE is an unlock-a-thon where you unlock something every 5 minutes. Unlocking things is exciting, but unlocking something as soon as you start a mode and continually so, at a high rate is just meh.

SamuraiPanda did a lot of lateral thinking, and I do applaud that, but really, having MetaKnight start the KIRBY franchise while KIRBY is hidden is just madness. If this were the very first Smash game, I'd even say that too.

 

[WarxePB]

With our luck, Sakurai'll put up an update saying:

"Up until now, we've been using this screen as the starting roster.

Well, that's all I say on the subject for today."

 

[Dr. UnKnown]

I wouldnt be surprised if Sakurai did another rant about something like "STOP NITPICKING EVERY WORD I SAY AND TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT"

 

[DragoonFenix15]

The original 8 HAVE to be starters, man. It's just common sense. There is no way Kirby is an unlockable, even if it's LEVEL 1 on SSE. He's KIRBY. He has to be a starter, and I don't think I am being too stubborn with that assumption.

We'll know the starting roster when Sakurai makes an update about it. And he will, trust me. Consider the fact that he's been giving us updates about EVERY SINGLE SECTION OF THE OPTIONS SCREEN for the past month and calling them each a "game mode", I'll be my balls that he'll have an update just about the character selection screen.

Remember, as Sakurai said in the old "Names" update...

"The character-selection screen is still a secret!"

And it STILL is, as far as I'm concerned.

BTW, a point at that: If this screen under debate were indeed the starting roster screen I THINK he would have unblurred that screenshot in the June 28th Names update. I just checked for the sake of this post, and it is still blurred.

 

[raul]

BTW, a point at that: If this screen under debate were indeed the starting roster screen I THINK he would have unblurred that screenshot in the June 28th Names update. I just checked for the sake of this post, and it is still blurred.

That's a good point too. More reason to me saying that the theory is probably not true.

 

[Chill]

At this point you don't need any more reasons.

 

[xbrinkx]

anyways if this is true then there isnt a good chance to be around 50 characters as some ppl believe(i think 30-35) because he is already reavealing secret characters on the dojo then theres a good chance that he will reveal the entier cast before the release. this in turn adds to the theory that the full cast will be revealed on dec 15

FINALLY! Someone who makes sense out of the entire roster. I think that 30, even what we have now is a great full roster. It's a common misconception that there's going to be 40+ characters. Many posts have to deal with a ginormous roster that they want to be true. This might settle a lot of "counters". Trust me, I'd love tons of characters as much as the next guy, but it's just illogical to think of this. And for those of you who say, "Oh, but the game has been in development too long to not have this much characters." Have you not even noticed the new features that could've taken an entire extra year to develop? Online play, stage builder, and especially SSE. Think of how long it's taking on those.

 

[Boofer]

@ brink.

Notice that the guy said "if this is true." I've already expressed my feelings on this subject. If this was true, I wouldn't expect a large roster. But the thing is, most people don't think it's true. I would bet money that we'll get well over 30 characters. How is that even satisfying to you? I honestly don't even think 30 characters is a logical guess.

 

[xbrinkx]

@ Boofer

I guess I'll just say it even louder. I don't, nor do I want anyone else, want to be extremely disappointed at the lack of characters from their expectations. This game is blown up as it is. You may have different opinions, but I just want to make mine known.

 

[The_Corax_King]

Frankly, I don't care who we start with... I just want to play the game

I've always thought it would be cool if in Brawl you started with only Mario, Link, Kirby, and Pikachu... and had to unlock everyone else

I know some people don't like the idea of having to unlock so much, but for me and others I'm sure it would be a blast...

 

[NDUDE]

I think the reason Kirby isn't on there is because they're still adding in the different hats from characters not yet revealed. Also, I think Zelda isn't on there since they're still not ready to show Sheik yet.

 

[xbrinkx]

Frankly, I don't care who we start with... I just want to play the game

I've always thought it would be cool if in Brawl you started with only Mario, Link, Kirby, and Pikachu... and had to unlock everyone else

I know some people don't like the idea of having to unlock so much, but for me and others I'm sure it would be a blast...

That sounds like a good idea to me. I'll play SSE even if I wouldn't unlock any characters, but for some people the only reason they'd play it is if they got characters out of it. I'd think Kirby would be a big hook on the fishing rod and you keep on getting pulled in through that juicyness. I think this would be a highly agreeable starting roster.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

It seems like people can just pull thought out non-sense from out of their *** and say "It's plausible becasue this is a new game, anything can happen."

I don't see this theory happening. While your points are thought out they don't make much sense from a developement stadpoint, and from a consumer stadpoint.

Having to unlock Kirby, a traditional smasher, a Nintendo all-star, and the DIRECTOR's creation, by playing through single player is just unintuitive and tedius, if you ask me.

I'm going to buy this game because I saw that Kirby was in it, and I'd like to use him. Now I go to the character screen to play as Kirby, and he's not there? But Kirby is a staple character, he's been in the other ones, and he's the main character for all his games!

This is similar with Snake.

And then, I can play as Sonic, but not Snake, when it was Snake advertised since god knows when?

It's just not going to happen exactly like you put it OP.

 

[xbrinkx]

He said close to the starting roster. Btw, Sonic is much more well-known than Snake, no matter how awesome Snake looks. Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games might have a slight influence on it, however unlikely.