Starting roster already revealed (SamuraiPanda's Conspiracy Theoracy) [Final Update]

[gigasteve]

He said close to the starting roster. Btw, Sonic is much more well-known than Snake, no matter how awesome Snake looks. Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games might have a slight influence on it, however unlikely.

Does it matter who is more known and who's not? Ice Climbers and Ness were both unkown to me, yet they were BOTH STARTERS. And also, unlocking Sonic would be a bigger surprise than Snake for those 5 people in the world who don't know about him.

 

[xbrinkx]

Well, as stated in SP's Conspiracy Theoracy, as soon as SP told any smash illiterate friends that Sonic's in Brawl then they'd say, "That's the first character I want to play." Check it!

 

[M.K]

Well, as stated in SP's Conspiracy Theoracy, as soon as SP told any smash illiterate friends that Sonic's in Brawl then they'd say, "That's the first character I want to play." Check it!

Uhm, ok...that is only one person. I've told my friends about both Snake and Sonic and they just drop a crap in their pants.

 

[xbrinkx]

This thread is steadily declining. I think it's because people are tired of arguing over it. I guess we never can really know until December 15th I'm guessing. Btw, he said lots more than one you misreader.

 

[Eight Sage]

This thread is steadily declining. I think it's because people are tired of arguing over it. I guess we never can really know until December 15th I'm guessing. Btw, he said lots more than one you misreader.

Agree.

There's nothing to discuss right now... we only have to relax and wait, 15th is the day.

Edit: And it rhymes!

 

[kaydon_esker]

Wow. This debate is riling (sp?) people up. I'm personally against this theory, but that's just personal bias rather than solid reasons, because let's face it, we don't really HAVE any solid reasons, just a mountain of unstable facts that could fall down at any second (imagery FTW!)

Did someone say a little earlier that Kirby being in an event mode meant he could be unlocked through it? If so, I have one word: FALCO.

 

[gigasteve]

If you think it's not worth arguing, check out my (thread) post against SP. That will get this thread going. SEE BELOW in sig.

 

[soviet prince]

First of all, we aren’t “supposed” to have known about the character selection screen. The Dojo is NOT tailored for people who broke down and analyzsed everything in the E4All demo, it is tailored for everyone else. So the normal response to that screenshot would be “Oh, that’s the starting roster.” Not, “Oh, that’s from the demo so it can’t be real.” Also, it isn’t strange at all for the demo to use the starting roster. They aren’t going to change up the character select screen all of a sudden.

EDIT: When I said that, I meant that they won't drastically change the initial character select screen before the game comes out because now every casual player and non-American (remember, the demo update only on the American version) thinks they have seen the character select screen.


IMO he used the demo screen becuse he did not want to reveal the starting roster, my geuss is that the starting roster is not finished or that he is waiting another time to reveal the roster to build up hype(corocoro).

2. There is a blatant lack of Kirby...

I direct you to this quote from the Dojo that came with the update:

“But even without this mode, given the proliferation of the Internet these days, the existence of hidden characters is going to get exposed anyway.
So, this time I’m moving in the direction of not being too hung up on hidden characters.
You can earn most characters by playing through Adventure Mode: The Subspace Emissary. For those of you who look forward to those encounters, I recommend you clear this mode before playing Basic Brawl.”

What is the very first battle in the Subspace Emissary? Mario vs Kirby. You unlock him in the very beginning of the mode. Next match? Petey Piranha with Zelda and Peach in a cage. Save Zelda to unlock her. Sakurai is making the subspace emissary much more enjoyable for people to play by letting you rapidly unlock characters. Don’t you think its more fun if you unlock a bunch of characters while playing through it, instead of one every 2 hours? It’ll really make you want to play that mode, probably before you do anything else in the game. Also, think of the event mode. The very first event, which was already revealed, is DeDeDe and Bowser vs Mario. Beat that and you unlock DeDeDe. Sakurai is encouraging people to play all these different single player modes by having you unlock characters really easy/early/frequently, so that you play the whole thing through. In Melee, there were really obscure ways to unlock a lot of characters that most people would, and should, have taken a long time to figure out. But, because of the internet, we unlocked them all as soon as humanly possible, so there is no point in making unlockable characters so hard to obtain anymore (although there will invariably be a few that are very difficult to unlock).

Edit: This point is where most people have trouble, so I figured I would expand it a bit. By the way, keep in mind that Kirby COULD be on the final starting roster. When Melee's "starting roster" was revealed (via demo), it didn't have Kirby or Zelda, which became starters when the game was released. So this point could be moot.

unlocking a character in the first match will be pointless if you ask me, unlocking supposed to be a reward for a accomplish you made in the game not for beating the first match.

2.5a You can select Kirby in the first battle in the subspace emissary instead of fighting against him

As others have already pointed out, this game is not 64, nor is it Melee. This is 6 years after the originals were made. So why do you assume you have to battle against the person you're about to unlock? I could easily see you having to win this battle with either Mario or Kirby (who could go on to fight Petey?) to unlock Kirby. Can you imagine fighting against Pokemon Trainer? How could they twist the story to do that? I find it much more plausible that when you get to a certain part in the story, you see a cutscene with PT fighting, say, Bowser or something, and then you have to play WITH PT to beat Bowser. PT could be unlocked as soon as you play with him, or he could be unlocked when you beat that match.

Also, remember that SSE is Co-Op. I think it would be boring for the second player if only the first player could fight every time there is a 1v1. So how do you get the second player involved? You can't just make the 1v1 a 2v1 whenever you're playing Co-Op, so maybe Sakurai just wanted 2 players to be able to play at the same time throughout most of the SSE (remember, you get your second teammate really early in the game, as Kirby gets one after beating Petey, and Mario meets Pit immediately). But the only way to do let 2 players play in the first match is by letting the players choose who they want.

It will be kind of odd to play as a character that you have not unlocked yet and it will kill the fact that it is unlockable, usually you have to earn the right to play as that character by achieving a goal.

2.5b Peach is on the starting roster, so why not Zelda?

This may be a bit tough for people to get, but it makes perfect sense to me. When you are going to battle Petey Piranah, do you know which princess you want to save? Do you even care? Frankly, I think most people (like myself) don't care which princess they save. It simply doesn't matter either way. But wait, what if you could unlock them? Well, it still wouldn't matter since you'll have to do both at some time or the other. But what if only ONE was unlockable? That is more than enough incentive for me to want that unlockable one. Badly. And honestly, I think it would be alot more fun if you actually cared which cage you opened.

my geuss is the both unlock a new alternate section of the sse, like the events will be diffrent if you save peach instead of zelda, like instead of wario being the capter it will be Bowser.

3. No Kirby, but Metaknight? Yeah right.
There is no way you can have only veterans in the starting roster, that’s ridiculous. You have to include newcomers. So who do you include? Well, if I were Sakurai, I would try to include at least one really cool, fun to play, unique, and noob-friendly character. One person that fits this perfectly is Metaknight. He is freaking awesome. How many people, who didn’t know/care about Metaknight before SSBB have fallen in love with how cool he is? Including him in the starting roster would make sense. Especially since its so easy to unlock Kirby anyways. Plus, you may meet him much later in the emissary, which is a good reason to have him unlocked from the start since he is so appealing to new players.

EDIT: Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying he would be a starter because he is popular. I'm saying he would be a starter because he has alot of "WOW" factor, meaning people who are looking forward to really different characters from Melee would enjoy playing Metaknight alot because of his originality, overall coolness, etc.

like other people have said in this thread what if they made mario locked and peach was a starter it does not make any since.

4. Sonic? Sakurai said he’ll be an unlockable! And why is there no Snake?!?
Yes, I know. I did the translation where he said 3rd party characters will be unlockable. But probably one of the reasons they never officially translated the blog into English was because everything he said is subject to change. Whenever I talk to casual smashers (and many hardcore ones too) about SSBB, and I mention Sonic is in the game, you know what they say? “Oh man, that is the FIRST character I’m playing with.” I’ve gotten that response incredibly often. Plus, having Sonic in the game is a HUGE selling and advertising point. It only makes sense that he’s playable from the very beginning. Snake, on the other hand, is not nearly as “huge” to the SSBB series, or to fans worldwide as Sonic. Comparing the two would be silly.

Sakurai sais it himeself he will be unlockable, I don't see him changing his mind. I also don't think the staring roster is decided on the popularity of the character.

5. There is no way they can fit many more characters on that select screen.
Same with the stage selection screen. But is it really that difficult to imagine it zooming out when you unlock a certain amount? Do you think they can’t simply make the icons move places or rearrange? There are hundreds of things they can do besides the silly idea of squeezing everything into the available space there. That argument doesn’t mean anything. And how sweet will it be if we unlocked 26 characters instead of just 14? Can you imagine how fast we’d be unlocking stuff in the subspace emissary? It would be awesome.

It might be pretty cool to unlock 26 characters but what I am worried about is if your theory is right there might not be many more characters. Just think about it if the Dojo is indeed showing unlockables then the massive decrease in characters that were getting in updates is telling me that there will not be many more characters in the game

 

[Problem2]

I don't agree with the statement that it is more fun to unlock things rapidly than to work to unlock things. Working to unlock things (that are worth unlocking) is more fun than just "Oh, I unlocked Lucario for beating Rayquaza."

You're motivation for playing through the game should be playing through it, not getting a bunch of unlockables at each step you make.

 

[blooagga]

I don't know, the characters that aren't on the roster have unique abilities that they could still be working on. IE: Zelda: transform Wario: bike ice climbers: two people and "the ditto thing in melee" snake: he can bury bombs, has a bunch of item like moves, you get the idea

 

[Brawler1432]

do you guys think SamuraiPanda will close this thread December 15th?

 

[vato_break]

do you guys think SamuraiPanda will close this thread December 15th?

no i think it will go on longer IMO

 

[Ginger9001]

do you guys think SamuraiPanda will close this thread December 15th?

Not unless they give a definite screenshot of what the real roster will look like. Thats my guess.

 

[soviet prince]

I am hoping this all end dec 15

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I don't know why I didn't think of this before (or why I'm even bothering posting this while I should be studying and everyone is hyped about CoroCoro) but I figured I should post this before I forget it...

This isn't the exact screen from the demo selection. In the upper right hand corner, there are buttons for Items and Stages. Think about this: Most people argue that Sakurai just put this screen up there because he "needed something" so he just used the demo roster. The only "important" parts of that screen (according to that argument) would be the buttons in the upper right, the 2 minute brawl, and maybe the "seeking" where other player selections are. So why wouldn't Sakurai just blur the character selection out and say that it is still secret? He's done that before... so why not again?

Aaaand back to studying for me.

 

[kimchii xD]

i also noticed the 40 on top of the screenshot. I think this is an online char selection screen.
so i'm also thinking this is the final roster, except i think they will remove the random spot with someone else

 

[AlFighter27]

actually the 40 is the amount of time before the game starts

 

[Jenkins: Spy Monkey]

I would think he showed the demo screen with a few altercations to show people what the character select screen setup would look like. He gave an update devoted to showing options, so I think he's starting to show more of how the game will look. I personally believe Sakurai will give us a "Starting Roster" update, and it'll show all the starting characters and the complete character selection screen. I just can't see him giving us an "Options" update while revealing the starting roster in such a flippant and nonchalant way. Good find though, it definitely helps your argument a lot that it's more than a "demo screen"

 

[VisetheStompy]

I don't know why I didn't think of this before (or why I'm even bothering posting this while I should be studying and everyone is hyped about CoroCoro) but I figured I should post this before I forget it...

This isn't the exact screen from the demo selection. In the upper right hand corner, there are buttons for Items and Stages. Think about this: Most people argue that Sakurai just put this screen up there because he "needed something" so he just used the demo roster. The only "important" parts of that screen (according to that argument) would be the buttons in the upper right, the 2 minute brawl, and maybe the "seeking" where other player selections are. So why wouldn't Sakurai just blur the character selection out and say that it is still secret? He's done that before... so why not again?

Aaaand back to studying for me.

I will admit this is probably the stongest argument you can get on the subject, but you say it yourself, he edits screen shots. Adding those two icons in where they should be is a pretty easy photoshop job. One may ask "Why do that instead of the blurring effect?" Well one could argue that blurring half the screen would be rather obnoxious compared to the minor blurs in the past.

Still at least this has something concrete to back it up rather than mere hypothesis.

 

[Boofer]

I don't know why I didn't think of this before (or why I'm even bothering posting this while I should be studying and everyone is hyped about CoroCoro) but I figured I should post this before I forget it...

This isn't the exact screen from the demo selection. In the upper right hand corner, there are buttons for Items and Stages. Think about this: Most people argue that Sakurai just put this screen up there because he "needed something" so he just used the demo roster. The only "important" parts of that screen (according to that argument) would be the buttons in the upper right, the 2 minute brawl, and maybe the "seeking" where other player selections are. So why wouldn't Sakurai just blur the character selection out and say that it is still secret? He's done that before... so why not again?

Aaaand back to studying for me.

Maybe...I'm not sure what to believe now, with the possibility of only 30 characters. You may be right, but it will utterly suck.

 

[kimchii xD]

actually the 40 is the amount of time before the game starts

yes and i think thats the reason why this is the final char selection screen

 

[Cosine]

Im sorry there all really good points, but that can't be the starting roster, maybe your right about it being so small but this would really piss off people who rent the game, besides if this was meant to be a starting roster then the character icons wouldn't be so big.

 

[SinisterLizard]

I don't think this is far-fetched, nor do I care if this is the actual case. I do, however, think that it would be very stupid if this was indeed the starting roster.

 

[shipoffools]

This starting lineup does not coincide with the boxart, thats my biggest problem with this

 

[RegalBuster]

I don't know how anyone can think there will be less than 40 or even less than 35 playable characters.

 

[Brockman5]

Same thinking here...

 

[Rominati]

Seriously I mean if we assume everyone is comming back expect for Ness and The Clones except Ganadorf,Faclon, and Luigi and we already got 31

 

[RegalBuster]

technically 30 as Zamus doesn't count as a stand alone character

 

[xbrinkx]

31 would go well with me, although I would like Ganondorf back with an original moveset for the blatant awesomeness of the only really real "evil" boss. Still supports my theory XD. Can't wait to see CoroCoro up here.

 

[Johnknight1]

For the Conspiracy Theoracy (lol), well said SamuraiPanda, and major props!

One problem though, SNAKE! MGS2 outsold Melee, and Snake is a gaming icon, and he's one of the most wanted characters for people to play as. In fact, I'd say out of all the newcomers, Sonic is the only newcomer more people want to play as. Snake brings a whole lot of new fans to the series, so it doesn't make sense to not have him as a starter. It'd be a wise move by Sakurai to have him as a starter, and on the cover (I want mes a new one, with Sonic and Snake....to heck with everyone else). Along with Sonic, of course!

And enough of this "clone are all gonna leave" crap, the only clones that are almost guarented to be gone are Doc+Pichu (along with Lucas), along with possibly/probably Roy.

And wtf? 30....we got 23 on the dojo...O...if everyone was to return. Well let's see here....Ness, Dr. Mario, and Pichu. Maybe Roy or Shiek. Add 11 characters at least (ZSS is a newcomer, so says the dojo; disagree, and you'll be wrong).

11
+
20
=
31

Probably 32 or 33. At least. Then add more newcomers, and that goes up. Since if I get below 40 characters I am going to wonder why Sakurai wasted his time with ATs and stickers. But that is not going to happen, so I won't, since ATs make neat extras, and 40 on up characters is all but guarenteed.

 

[Darkfur]

31 would go well with me, although I would like Ganondorf back with an original moveset for the blatant awesomeness of the only really real "evil" boss. Still supports my theory XD. Can't wait to see CoroCoro up here.

I don't know about that... Mewtwo was pretty psychotic IIRC...

But, you just can't rule out Jigglypuff either. Such... untold evil... D: *has nightmares*

... =p

 

[Brockman5]

Yeah Johnight I think you hit the nail on the head wit that one...thats exactly what I think, and serebii has said that a few melee characters won't be returning...

 

[Chepe]

Well, if Serebii Joe is to be trusted, then this theory will be proven wrong tomorrow. Coro Coro supposedly showcases the starters and even includes two characters we havent seen yet...

 

[matthewmilad]

well

Sakurai has already stated that he wants to make 3rd parties unlockable.
What is Sonic? Looks like fail.

 

[Cless]

Well, if Serebii Joe is to be trusted, then this theory will be proven wrong tomorrow. Coro Coro supposedly showcases the starters and even includes two characters we havent seen yet...

Pack of lies.

 

[matthewmilad]

i also noticed the 40 on top of the screenshot. I think this is an online char selection screen.
so i'm also thinking this is the final roster, except i think they will remove the random spot with someone else

Yeah dude, the final roster doesn't have Kirby, Meta Knight, DeDeDe, Ice Climbers, Pokemon Trainer, Snake, Lucas, or any other character that is in the game but hasn't been announced yet. Yep.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

People, for future reference, this is what a person who doesn't read the first post sounds like:

Sakurai has already stated that he wants to make 3rd parties unlockable.
What is Sonic? Looks like fail.

I'm fine with people fighting the theory (intelligently), but at least try to read the first post and include some facts instead of feelings. I'm hoping to make one final update to the first post sometime over the weekend so I can fulfill my promise to address the most repeated points, but given that even I know that this is merely a possibility thus can't be proven, and that the starting roster is important for a whole hour before you start getting unlockables, I think I'll only update the first post one last time and leave it at that.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I don't believe this theory is true.

Maybe this will be most of the starting roster, but I don't think it will be all of it. I have this sneaking suspision that Sakurai is using the fighter select screen from the demos just to keep us all content. Imagine if he had said "You jump right to the charcter selection screen (which is still a secret since the 'Names' update)". We would be pissed, and I think he knew that. So he gave us something we couldn't argue with.

And remember, this isn't like Sakurai doesn't know we've seen the roster. He's released a demo, one of which was given to the public at EforAll, and the other was given to the press which (to no surprise) was reported.


I can believe the Sonic part of the theory because... why not? It doesn't not make sense. But I don't believe Kirby would be left out of the starting roster. It just doesn't make sense to me. He was a starter in SSB64 and Melee and he's the first fighter you can choose in SsE alongside Mario. The same can be said for Zelda. I would have accepted that Zelda was not a starter IF AND ONLY IF Peach wasn't on that screen as well. Not to mention that all four characters in the starting scene (Mario, Kirby, Peach, and Zelda) may all be optional fighters in the second battle. (You know the one... where the SsA shows up and the girls fly down to help.)

I don't know. Just doesn't sit right with me. There appear to be far too many holes.

 

[xbrinkx]

For the Conspiracy Theoracy (lol), well said SamuraiPanda, and major props!

One problem though, SNAKE! MGS2 outsold Melee, and Snake is a gaming icon, and he's one of the most wanted characters for people to play as. In fact, I'd say out of all the newcomers, Sonic is the only newcomer more people want to play as. Snake brings a whole lot of new fans to the series, so it doesn't make sense to not have him as a starter. It'd be a wise move by Sakurai to have him as a starter, and on the cover (I want mes a new one, with Sonic and Snake....to heck with everyone else). Along with Sonic, of course!

And enough of this "clone are all gonna leave" crap, the only clones that are almost guarented to be gone are Doc+Pichu (along with Lucas), along with possibly/probably Roy.

And wtf? 30....we got 23 on the dojo...O...if everyone was to return. Well let's see here....Ness, Dr. Mario, and Pichu. Maybe Roy or Shiek. Add 11 characters at least (ZSS is a newcomer, so says the dojo; disagree, and you'll be wrong).

11
+
20
=
31

Probably 32 or 33. At least. Then add more newcomers, and that goes up. Since if I get below 40 characters I am going to wonder why Sakurai wasted his time with ATs and stickers. But that is not going to happen, so I won't, since ATs make neat extras, and 40 on up characters is all but guarenteed.

I agree and disagree at the exact same time. I do agree that you make a great argument that if characters were to return than we'd get around 35 characters. (My expected total XD) The thing about clones is that Sakurai said he'd get rid of clones in Brawl. (I'm not gonna go look for it.) I don't think all the clones may be gone for good, it's just that it's very likely. I'm not sure about 40 characters, but maybe around 35 if your returning characters theory holds up. I'd love to have 40 chars, but it's too high to expect from where I stand.

 

[Wishy]

I have 2 things for you. 1 argument, and 1 back-up. =]

3. No Kirby, but Metaknight? Yeah right.
There is no way you can have only veterans in the starting roster, that’s ridiculous. You have to include newcomers. So who do you include? Well, if I were Sakurai, I would try to include at least one really cool, fun to play, unique, and noob-friendly character. One person that fits this perfectly is Metaknight. He is freaking awesome. How many people, who didn’t know/care about Metaknight before SSBB have fallen in love with how cool he is? Including him in the starting roster would make sense. Especially since its so easy to unlock Kirby anyways. Plus, you may meet him much later in the emissary, which is a good reason to have him unlocked from the start since he is so appealing to new players.

EDIT: Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying he would be a starter because he is popular. I'm saying he would be a starter because he has alot of "WOW" factor, meaning people who are looking forward to really different characters from Melee would enjoy playing Metaknight alot because of his originality, overall coolness, etc.

Since you say it makes sense why Kirby and Zelda are unlockables, why would Meta Knight be a starter? His ship plays a huge role, so MK probably does do... Since it doesn't make sense for his ship to be a big part in the SSE, whilst he does... Nothing? Maybe he's evil (Corrupted or something), etc., etc. So, I think MK will be removed for the final version, and was just there for the demo to show him off since he was a fairly hyped up character.

Now, something to back you up.

Zelda being unlockable makes SO MUCH SENSE! There is a video on YouTube (Don't have it now...) where both Peach and Zelda get freed from Petey's cages, but Wario comes in and turns Zelda into a trophy and takes her with him (Kirby saves Peach via Star). So, until you save and revive Zelda, she will not be playable. Makes a helluva lot of sense to me at least...