Starcraft Discussion

[pockyD]

Did you skip my post on the overwhelming potential of marines? That's why i am ignoring your point on them getting torn up by the units. They get torn up by the micro.

what is this? "i refuse to argue any more because i'm right"?

and i thought we were having fun discussing this

 

[Zanoske]

Battlecruiser Operational.

 

[Alphicans]

what is this? "i refuse to argue any more because i'm right"?

and i thought we were having fun discussing this

Well, I knew after I posted that, I would give that impression. And I kind of meant to, because to an extent I am correct. Me and my friend tested this extensively, among many other things we do. For example we discovered that archons vs ultras non upgraded, archons won, but with max ups ultras win. Little stuff like that, which we go out of our way to get a better understanding of the game without looking on forums and such. Test it out your self; look at the cost of marines and compare it to other units. Look at the efficiency, mobility, and power, and ease. You are right, however, that storms will **** m&m vs carriers.... so then why did you suggest it? Your argument kinda got blown out of the water when you said that, and that is why I kinda just ignored what you had to say.

 

[Gerudo Warrior]

take it slow..

ok i am having trouble against my bro's protos.

when the game goes late game, he just masses carriers and they seem untoppable. how do i combat this.

 

[Alphicans]

Well, there is a point where protoss does reach a critical mass when carriers are almost near impossible. The only way to beat carriers is to scout them before he has them (or at least a lot of them). I say scan his base around the ten minute mark, and from there just keep checking. The second you see a fleet beacon building, or one that is already up, make some turrets at expos, make goliaths, and counter attack. Get the pressure on toss before they get pressure on you. You never want a game where carriers are on your *** before you have goliaths, because then it's for sure gg'z.

 

[pockyD]

m/m being better vs carriers was just a random tangent, targeted at the fact that you said goliaths "are the number 1 carrier counter"

and even then (despite saying goliaths were number 1), you conceded that mass wraiths was better (which i'm personally not 100% convinced of, but it's entirely possible), which once again supports that goliaths are only good because of circumstance (having existing factories, sharing upgrades) instead of being good units in their own right

 

[Alphicans]

Well doing 32 damage per shot fully upgraded isn't exactly crappy damage, I mean come on that is pretty good. That' why I think they are good units. They do good damage against zlots and goons making them a good support unit within the army, and again in TvT they are excellent drop units, BC counters (debatable) and good for pushing out with tanks. There is really no way you can say goliaths are bad units.

There is one thing I think we can both agree on, and that is that valkys are bad units, ya?

 

[Gerudo Warrior]

how do valkyries measure up to carriers? is it good to have a good force of them?

 

[Alphicans]

Well, sure they'd kill interceptors well. Although they might freeze up. The thing is is that they cost A LOT of gas, and are equally as fragile as wraiths, plus with carrier armor, I doubt they'd do much dmg to the carriers themselves. If you're gonna get an air unit to handle carriers, get wraiths.

 

[unknownPresence]

i just read that arguement and i have to say, you are both mood. Starcraft isnt a game where you can say a unit is bad. A lot of people said miners make horrible attack units, and its true, but this game is entirely situational. scv rush, drone split, hmm cant think of anything for probes. Anyway you cant say a unit is bad and there are many factors determining which unit would win.

 

[Alphicans]

I know, that's what my point was. Although you are wrong about something, valkys are actually bad. They are a waste of money, for something that can freeze up and is so situational it only has 1 use; killing mutas, and even that I think mnm are more efficient.

 

[Gosu_Engineer]

i just read that arguement and i have to say, you are both mood. Starcraft isnt a game where you can say a unit is bad. A lot of people said miners make horrible attack units, and its true, but this game is entirely situational. scv rush, drone split, hmm cant think of anything for probes. Anyway you cant say a unit is bad and there are many factors determining which unit would win.

we're applying units in specific match ups and specifying certain situations in which these units are poor choices whether it be for economic difficulties in obtaining them, practical counter situations against certain enemy units, etc. I think they can say that a unit is bad because they are detailing the situation in which the unit is a bad choice or not viable.

and I think valks would be viable against carrier if they had support from sci vessels; EMP and Def matrix would help in pretty much any situation against protoss.

Then again I'll produce valks just to hear the unit speech... "Blücher!"

 

[Alphicans]

Carrier armor is too strong. Wraiths can cloak, and do super dmg to carriers. Mix them with sci ves, and they are probably 1.6x as efficient as valkys, maybe even more. That number comes from me not thinking quite twice as good, but definately better than1 .5, so i get 1.6.

 

[Gosu_Engineer]

Carrier armor is too strong. Wraiths can cloak, and do super dmg to carriers. Mix them with sci ves, and they are probably 1.6x as efficient as valkys, maybe even more. That number comes from me not thinking quite twice as good, but definately better than1 .5, so i get 1.6.

oh well of course pretty much anything is better. I was just saying that valks have a chance of winning with sci vessel support...still not the best of chances though

by no means did I say it was the best...

 

[Alphicans]

Well you said viable... IDK man

 

[Gosu_Engineer]

Well you said viable... IDK man

I don't know either really...in all honesty I rarely use the **** things...(I'm a toss player)

 

[Zanoske]

Ever tried to lockdown Carriers with the ghosts?

 

[Alphicans]

Well back in the noob days, but now it's just too hard. It sounds really good in theory, but try actually getting around to doing it; it's tough. The time you spend microing all your units is too great, ghosts just aren't a prioroity... Although I have seen boxer and flash do it on a couple of occasions, but those are serious pros.

 

[unknownPresence]

i honestly believe valks are great support units (2-3). and i also think mutas if microed right destroy mnm, just look at julyzerg and some yellow reps. also whats with you in carriers, most toss pros ic dont do that often.

 

[Alphicans]

Dude.... Carriers and dt's are toss's answer to everything. Every time toss is under serious pressure, they WILL go dt's or carriers. Honestly, it's really annoying.

 

[unknownPresence]

what kind of matchare we talking about, amateur, pro, hasu, or in general. I rarely see any1 go carrier under pressure because it takes too much time and dt's are units used for backup, You never see dt's in groups of 6 or more unless its a rush or surprise tactic.

 

[Cynan Machae]

Carriers are quite often seen in PvT, and at almost every levels. I've haven't seen carreirs really used in PvP higher than noob level, and quite rarely in PvZ but it did happens a few times.

And yea, Ghost against Carriers are effective with uber micro, but really the tech to get them and the gas is bettter spent elsewhere and you can use that micro on other stuff. I did use them a few times, but that was mostly because I would have won anyway

 

[pockyD]

i just read that arguement and i have to say, you are both mood. Starcraft isnt a game where you can say a unit is bad. A lot of people said miners make horrible attack units, and its true, but this game is entirely situational. scv rush, drone split, hmm cant think of anything for probes. Anyway you cant say a unit is bad and there are many factors determining which unit would win.

I don't really understand what "mood" could mean here

You're probably one of those "tiers don't exist" people who thinks that a good kirby can hang with a good fox

And plus, obviously, whenever discussing the merits of a unit within a game, its quality is always judged relative to the alternatives, not in a vacuum

 

[Alphicans]

Who here is watching the averatec intel classic2? I think Jaedong is gonna get rolled this time around.

 

[Cynan Machae]

I am, but I really don't think Jaedong is gonna get rolled.

And the Boxer games. Oh god.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

I don't do much in the way of normal map settings games. I main Terran but I'm pretty shoddy. I play UMS maps mainly. Bounds and Defenses are fun. Anybody play Heavens Last Stand? That's got to be the greatest UMS map ever made. It takes a great deal of skill and experience to play well. 80% of the games I play on Battle.net are on this map.

I play on USEast mainly, and sometimes USWest.

East Acc. 7Ravens Member of Clan 7, a Heavens Last Stand clan. The best one. Channel "Clan Dawn"

West Acc. Callandor_

 

[Gerudo Warrior]

Boxer sends tingles down my spine

 

[Gosu_Engineer]

haha speak of the devil...Boxer makes Valks

 

[slave1]

Flippen Huge Question

Ok i am looking for a place that i can download starcraft game types. fastest maps ever, those game types where you have units spawning and the more things you kill the stronger your units become, and anything else like that. i cant get onto battle net to get them so can you guys help

 

[M@v]

I love using carriers when time presents, but using JUST carriers is being a ******. ALWAYS have arbs,obs,
And corsairs backing them up. Scouts are good too, but the corsairs web is godly effecient.

 

[KevinM]

Scouts are good too,

You lost all credibility here.

 

[Alphicans]

No, he lost credibility when he said carriers is being ********. Carriers are good, no questions asked. Arbs are not needed, neither are sairs, and scouts are the most useless unit in the game. Obs are a given, why even mention that (although they aren't entirely needed, unless you know for a fact you are vsing wraiths). Corsairs web is good, but now a days it just isn't used as much.

 

[M@v]

No, he lost credibility when he said carriers is being ********. Carriers are good, no questions asked. Arbs are not needed, neither are sairs, and scouts are the most useless unit in the game. Obs are a given, why even mention that (although they aren't entirely needed, unless you know for a fact you are vsing wraiths). Corsairs web is good, but now a days it just isn't used as much.

Carriers alone get ***** by goliaths, wraiths, valkryies, temps,scourge, devoureres, and scouts. O yeah i forgot to mention science vessels make your carriers helpless if they get EMPD. Go ahead and use just carriers in late game, and don't cry when they all get killed. At least have them moving with ground units for goodness sakes. You should NEVER mass just 1 unit. Thats the freaking golden rule of starcraft.

And as for the scouts: its best to use them when someone else is focusing aerially. You send the scouts after their airforce, and carriers to their base.

 

[Alphicans]

First of all, the only consistent match up you use carriers is PvT, since in PvP storms and goons take them out easily with half the cost, and just as much mobility. In PvZ, storms are way more effective, so carriers aren't that viable. In PvT, gols don't **** carriers, wraiths kind of do, but are easily taken care of, valkys don't do anything vs carriers. I don't see what you're arguing, TBH it just doesn't seem like you know enough about the game to argue. I am sorry if that's offensive but with what you said, I can end up at that conclusion.

 

[pockyD]

scouts are monsters air-to-air

 

[Alphicans]

The only time I can see scouts being used is in PvP, when one toss goes carriers. Even then storms and good are equally as good, and better still, do a better job killing other things. Point is... Scouts are worthless.

I will agree, however, scouts are good vs air.

 

[Gosu_Engineer]

one rep I saw forU owns some random with scouts early TvP... the terran decides for an early tank vult push and forU busts out scouts. and all game continues to rock the terran with mass scouts...That was awesome.

...and yeah scouts aren't that great (unless you're forU that is).

 

[Alphicans]

Even if you are agreeing with me in the long run, please do not bring up games like these. Of course scouts can win, but people can win if they start with 3 probes instead of 4. When you bring up something like this, all it does is give people reason to argue stupid points.

 

[pockyD]

Scouts are the best counter if for some inexplicable reason, a good terran goes BC, since EMP will eat up templar and arbiters

and they're usable early vs terran because most don't bother with any amount of anti-air until reasonably late (the STOVE)

but no, overall, not good units. even goliaths are better

 

[Alphicans]

Yes... because goliaths are good units.... Early game pvt, going scouts is dumb. First of all, marines, second of all, turrets.