Starcraft 2 (Info on first post!)

[Zankoku]

Well, technically 4rax would be the equivalent of 4gate, it's just that we can't warp in reinforcements right next to the other base so adding +2 supply of production that we can only barely support on 1 base anyway and wouldn't reach the other side of the map in time to make a difference would be kind of pointless.

 

[Omni]

Cool. I'll practice YABOT then with the 1/1/1 build.

Is there a specific time I should aim for to be finished with this build?

 

[Zankoku]

Not really, just try to lay down every building as soon as you're able to.

 

[Lore]

I still haven't played this game in a while...

Is there another tournament coming up?

 

[Zankoku]

Either Nashun or I can set something up for the weekend. I'm thinking to just build and upload a single elimination bracket and have everyone play their matches out over the course of a weekend rather than several weeks, since it doesn't seem like there's enough interest around here lately for something of that size.

 

[Omni]

So doing YABOT is working wonders. All I do is keep repeating the build order then restarting then do the build order then restart and I start to feel more and more comfortable with everything. I know this might sound silly, but I want to make sure that I'm doing everything right so here is how I execute my 1/1/1:

- Select all SCV's and send to mineral
- Click CC. Press 'S' for an SCV.
- Shift-4 it into a control group.
- Right-click rally to an open mineral patch.
- 'S' for more SCV's and change rally to open mineral patches.
- At around 9/11 send SCV to ramp and build Supply Depot.
- Shift-1 that SCV into a control group.
- Continue 'S' SCV's until 10/11.
- Select SCV (1) and build barracks at exactly 150 minerals.
- Shift-queue SCV (1) to scout after barracks is done
- Shift-5 barracks into control group
- Set rally point behind supply depot for barracks
- Select SCV to make refinery at 75 minerals
- Select a SCV to move towards ramp and build 1 marine.
- Refinery finished. Select two SCV's to join in mining.
- Select CC (4) and build Orb Command (B) @ 25 gas.
- Use SCV to finish ramp with another Depot.

then it gets fuzzy

- While waiting for Orb Command build another marine.
- While waiting for Orb Command build save until I have enough for Factory.
- While waiting for Orb Command concentrate on scouting with SCV (1) in more detail.
- Once Orb Command finishes 'E' Mule a mineral patch and 'S' queue SCV.
- Immediately build another refinery.

and then uh...

- While waiting for Factory to finish keep building up marines/scv's.
- Shift-5 Factory into control group. Rally point with barracks.
- Once Factory is complete immediately build Starport.
- Shift-6 Starport. Rally point with barracks and factory.


Did I miss anything important or major regarding macro?

I know it seems weird but this is how I remember things better.

 

[Zankoku]

Aren't you supposed to maintain constant SCV production in the beginning, so it's Depot at 10, Barracks at 12, Refinery at 13, Orbital once Barracks is complete (15, 16 if you made a Marine first)?

 

[Omni]

Yah, that sounds about right. That's what I did. Unless I phrased something wrong up there.

 

[Zankoku]

In that case, you have 1/1/1 more or less set up. Now you just need to have a plan with it. Figure out an army composition (Marine/Tank with Medivacs and Vikings is pretty common) you want to aim for, place add-ons accordingly, and make sure to keep making units whenever your money permits. You can also add-on swap to get faster tech or have a reactor ready the moment you have your Starport, or whatever.

Also, remember to keep making stuff and/or building add-ons even when you're still building that Factory or Starport unless you're cutting units to save gas or minerals for the next step, and avoid supply blocking.

 

[ArcNatural]

@above post about notepad


Wat.

Yeah it's pretty lulz. I forget where I saw this, I think it may have been on a livestream once or something. But it's something to mess around with at work at least.

 

[Omni]

In that case, you have 1/1/1 more or less set up. Now you just need to have a plan with it. Figure out an army composition (Marine/Tank with Medivacs and Vikings is pretty common) you want to aim for, place add-ons accordingly, and make sure to keep making units whenever your money permits. You can also add-on swap to get faster tech or have a reactor ready the moment you have your Starport, or whatever.

Also, remember to keep making stuff and/or building add-ons even when you're still building that Factory or Starport unless you're cutting units to save gas or minerals for the next step, and avoid supply blocking.

Yeah, I was thinking that I could put a tech on my Barracks and research stim. Then once stim is complete and I have a good amount of marines I can swap Factory with Barracks so I can begin building Seige Tanks.

Or while the Starport is being made make a reactor with my Factory. Then once the Factory is done then do the swap so the Starport can land on the reactor and I can begin making Medivacs/Vikings.

Just thinking off hand I'd probably begin an Engineering Bay soon after and then after I have a decent size army count start building my second CC in base (if after I scout and notice there aren't any threats).

 

[Scar]

Don't make me post the replay of our first match =). Fake speedlings into roaches = win.

P.S. You still ***** me @ Pound 5.

lol i was pretty mad i lost to 7rr tbh, i definitely didn't have a lot of experience against it and didn't know how to react

if you don't know what to do vs it, 7rr hits really hard and really fast

if you hold it though you have like what, 12 drones?

 

[Zankoku]

I totally held Twig's 7rr once from a 2rax FE build on accident because I delayed his Roaches with a couple Marines outside my base, haha.

Omni, now that you've got your build order and you're thinking of things you can do with it, it's time to experiment! Either keep messing around in YABOT or just play a game vs AI (any difficulty will do, though Hard and Very Hard are pretty good for testing whether you're safe against early 6-7 minute pushes) and practice out a build you want to go for until the macro part becomes second nature and you can concentrate on getting everything built at a good timing. Once you're satisfied with your build, try using it repeatedly in ladder games (around 4 or 5 will be good to see if you like playing your build or not) to get the hang of using it against actual people.

 

[Fizzi]

lol i was pretty mad i lost to 7rr tbh, i definitely didn't have a lot of experience against it and didn't know how to react

if you don't know what to do vs it, 7rr hits really hard and really fast

if you hold it though you have like what, 12 drones?

You go up to 34 supply with the 7 roaches and you have one queen. So that's 18 drones when the push begins. Personally I'll drone up and expand behind it.

The issue isn't really that you're that far behind in drones, it's that your expansion was reaalllyy late.

 

[Omni]

God, I love YABOT. I feel like I'm improving really fast aka just really getting use to the basics. A few questions:

1.) Let's say I accidentally put my Barracks in the same Control Group as my CC on accident. How do I remedy the situation? Is there an action to remove a structure/unit from a Control Group?

2.) Is there a generally good time to move out and attack?

3.) After I finish the 1/1/1 build (Starport finishes around 4:50) what are some good steps?

 

[Zankoku]

1. Shift+Click the building you want to deselect from the selection bar (that thing at the bottom of your screen) then set the control group again.

2. Right before something important (Stims, Siege Mode) is going to finish for you, so that you reach the enemy's base just as it completes. Or, right after an expansion finishes, so you can deny it without him being able to cancel for a refund. Or, whenever you want, because you're Terran. Timings are something you'll only really get the hang of from playing against humans, though.

3. Scanner sweep to check your opponent's tech and decide on what you want to start making from there.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Omni, YABOT certainly helps you get down basics but I'd really suggest playing some customs or ladder once you do have your build order down. No matter how well you can perform a BO, it's important to know how to react and such to a human.

 

[M@v]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzMhh8zhTiY&feature=related

A classic :D

 

[Omni]

Omni, YABOT certainly helps you get down basics but I'd really suggest playing some customs or ladder once you do have your build order down. No matter how well you can perform a BO, it's important to know how to react and such to a human.

Okaaaaaay. For now tho' I'mma keep doing YABOT so I can become more familiar with the maps and building walls for different size ramps, etc. etc. I've noticed that my early game play has become a lot more solid (the YABOT part) but then I start getting really flimsy when I try to expand. So what I do is keep increasing the time where my YABOT session ends until I'm playing comfortably at that time limit.

Like right now I feel comfortable going into about 6-7 minutes into the game slightly after my 1/1/1 build. From there everything starts to slip.

On another note, Hard AI is... hard. Lol.

 

[Zankoku]

building walls for different size ramps

I'll save you the trouble of doing this part by telling you right now that the ramps for the mains are all the same size on Blizzard ladder maps.

If you're having trouble with Hard AI, you don't have nearly enough defenses to deal with 1-base timing attacks. You may want to consider map awareness (leaving scouts to watch for armies moving out, holding watchtowers) and building bunkers and units before you've fully teched up, so that you aren't a sitting duck when they decide to move out early-ish. Here's a tip, though - Hard AI always decides to push out at around the 6-7 minute mark.

 

[Omni]

lol, yea. they friggin get to my base and then if i have a big army they spaz out and can't decide if they should attack or run

 

[Nasty_Nate]

anyone got a link to all the gsl vods?
both of my sites arent working

 

[Pakman]

Can you guys post your Hotkey configurations?

That is something that is really hurting my macro.

I use 3 for Command Center and I keep all my production facilities on 4 and tab through for building.

I use 1 and 2 for units.

 

[Omni]

I use 1 for scout. Then switch to 1 for initial army.
2-3 for other army.
4 for Command Center
5 for Barracks
6 for Factory/Starports

 

[Overswarm]

Can you guys post your Hotkey configurations?

That is something that is really hurting my macro.

I use 3 for Command Center and I keep all my production facilities on 4 and tab through for building.

I use 1 and 2 for units.

5-0 is my initial hatch.

1-3 is my initial scout.

Then 6 is my expansion currently building, while 5 is my main and expansion.

0 is any special building getting an upgrade / unit I need to rarely check on

1-4 become my army

5 is always all my expos, 6 is my most newly built expo

 

[Zankoku]

1 Command Center
2 Barracks
3 Initial scout / Factory / Starport (if going MMM only)
4 Starport
5 Army (when I feel like it)
6 Other units? (when I feel like it)
7 Unused
8 Unused
9 Engineering Bay
0 Armory

 

[Mogwai]

1 dudes I care about
2 buildings I care about
3 other thing I might care about like starting overlord
4-0 unused

 

[ArcNatural]

Hotkeys : Zerg:
1. Scout -> First Army
2. 2nd Army
3. 1st Ovie (Sometimes turn into overseer) -> Caster group
4. All Hatches
5. Queen 1
6. Queen 2
7. Queen 3
0. nydus or tech I'm waiting for upgrade on.

 

[Overswarm]

oh, and 4 is all me queens

 

[Zankoku]

My hotkey setup as Zerg is pretty funny.

1 Hatchery
5 Units that aren't Drones, Queens, Overlords, or Overseers

 

[Hylian]

I use:

1: scout/stalkers
2. zelot/ sentries
3. other units/obs
4. nexus
5. gateways until warpgate then expo
6. whatever building im upgrading from next like cyber core
7. same as 6 if i need another
8-0: whatever i need. usually keep an obs on 0

 

[Sensei Hanzo]

My typical Protoss hotkey layout is:
1: Scouting Probe, later switches to main army
2-3: Sub army groups, like anti-air or spellcasters
4: Non-warp gate production structures
5: Nexus
6-0: Unused

 

[M@v]

1 CCs/nexuses/etc.

2.scout in beginning, then all of my barracks
3.All of my factories
4. All of my starports
5. My Army.

Might be easier to make all my production on 1 hotkey since i can just tab through them instead of having to hit other hotkeys. It can free them up for control groups....
6 is the highest hot key ill use; the rest are too far over.

Oh, and I think I finally cracked TvZ to the point where I can take on Master's league players. I do ok on ladders vs zerg, but I was playing some masters Zs today, and with some tweaks and advice, I did really good.


Now for protoss T___T.

 

[Zankoku]

Just ask yourself, what would Jinro do?

I'd proxy barracks him. Because he's Protoss. True story.

(from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=198215 )

 

[Nasty_Nate]

damnit now i want those vods even more
Pheonixes? Really? Pheonixes are good but are pretty situational IMO

I wanna know why he has a hard time with them

 

[Zankoku]

Basically they gave HongUn a constant form of harass (forced Turrets and could occasionally pick off marines, etc. before they reached a rally point) and scouting, and Phoenixes move faster than any Terran unit so it's impossible to actually shoot them down when controlled well. Plus, this pretty much hard counters what Jinro won with in Game 1. HongUn mostly built them so he could scout Jinro's build, because Jinro seemed pretty good at both bio and mech-based plays, so HongUn wanted to know what to prepare for. He actually started by proxying the Stargate, and stopped once he reached ~6 Phoenixes.

 

[Nasty_Nate]

I still dont understand. Vikings and marines. I guess Jinro tried to stick with banshees both times?

 

[Zankoku]

Nope, but if you mass Vikings and Marines you're in trouble against High Templar.

 

[Zone]

I find it best to put all your hatches on 1 hotkey and all queens on one hotkey. just rally drones to ur expo from both bases. Sending half ur workers when your zerg is ********, cuz they gotta travel that distance anyways.

when you need to larva inject. You just hit your hotkeys for hatch, then hit queen hotkey (closest one will cast larvae), Then hit backspace to go to the next hatchery, rinse repeat.

no sense in having all these different hotkeys for queens or hatcheries. Unless for some reason you very oftenly have rally points going in like 4-5 different directions.

(I'm willing to bet atleast one person who reads this didn't know backspace jumps between hatches)

 

[Overswarm]

I switched it fro mbackspace to the back mouse button.

You can also use the minimap ^_^