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Starcraft 2 (Info on first post!)
- Thread starter JTB
- Start date
Kenrawr
Smash Master
the two sentries weren't in range of the ramp =x omni definitely coulda run in
but yeah if the toss had them in position that woulda been horrible
but yeah if the toss had them in position that woulda been horrible
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Kenrawr
Smash Master
still coulda avoided being funneled a little better altho looking at it again that's a lot more stalkers than i remember so it doesn't even matter.
lifting the rax could also help a lil in that situation.
lifting the rax could also help a lil in that situation.
Looking back at that video I did better than I thought.
When I scouted for that probe and didn't see it I assumed it just left my base and I didn't notice it. Lol. Next time if I see that happen I won't even bother looking for the probe. I'll just wall off the front and do a timely push to my corner with marines to destroy any surprise structures/units.
And yeah, I felt like I pretty much lost after I noticed all the stalkers in my base so I just kinda sent them all up there expecting them to die. Surprised he didn't go straight for my minerals but it makes sense to go for my army buildings since he knew I had a second expansion.
I have a feeling I'm gonna' lose to a lot of cheese before I finally get use to expecting what's coming.
When I scouted for that probe and didn't see it I assumed it just left my base and I didn't notice it. Lol. Next time if I see that happen I won't even bother looking for the probe. I'll just wall off the front and do a timely push to my corner with marines to destroy any surprise structures/units.
And yeah, I felt like I pretty much lost after I noticed all the stalkers in my base so I just kinda sent them all up there expecting them to die. Surprised he didn't go straight for my minerals but it makes sense to go for my army buildings since he knew I had a second expansion.
I have a feeling I'm gonna' lose to a lot of cheese before I finally get use to expecting what's coming.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
You will.
What you need to look for is the "all in". If you've watched higher level games you are probably familiar with "standard" play. Look for play that is not "standard" and think "what can he do to me really really fast with this".
Toss-
Warp in your base
Cut workers and forego tech to warp in a ton of units with warp gate rush
Cannon you
Dark Templar rush
You can prevent the "warp in your base" stuff by preventing them from building in your base. That's easy enough. Cannoning, with appropriate scouting, isn't too difficult to stop. Cutting workers to warp in a ton of units can be seen by a large amount of gateways and units in a protoss base AND his chrono boost being saved up for his warp gate research. DT rush can be seen by a fast Citadel.
So don't let them build in or near your base, scout for early forge, scout for multiple gateways and chrono boosted cyber core, scout for citadel. Toss cheese is out.
Zerg-
Early pool
Baneling bust
One base muta harass
You're terran! If you see an early pool, cut workers to build your wall and send scvs to repair structures on auto-repair when he attacks. Build marines from your rax. Continue maknig scvs/orbital. You win.
Baneling bust can be scouted pretty easily. If he is cutting workers at ~15 drones (when his 3rd OL pops is around this time and you see him constantly harvesting gas and making lings with speed, he's probably going to abneling bust you. You can stop this by putting two mauraders on your ramp at hold position or by simply walling off with barracks and/or all your depots at your front. Multiple barracks/factory/engineering bay is best. If you stop the bust, you win.
One base muta harass is ridiculously easy to stop. His mutas start coming out around 7:30-8:00, so if you don't know what he's doing by then, scan his base. If you see a spire or mutas, build an ebay if you haven't yet and put two turrets in each of your min lines. You've stopped his harass. Marines will then kill mutalisks in a straight up fight.
The only thing to keep in mind with the muta harass is that he often does it to just keep you in your base. The moment he muta harasses you, send an scv to scuot his base. If he doesn't have anything, attack him and build a few more turrets at your base to protect key structures. If he is harassing you and you notice he isn't building more mutalisks, he's building something else (probably ling/bling).
Terran-
**** this race. But you're terran, so it's all cool. You'll figure out what they can do.
What you need to look for is the "all in". If you've watched higher level games you are probably familiar with "standard" play. Look for play that is not "standard" and think "what can he do to me really really fast with this".
Toss-
Warp in your base
Cut workers and forego tech to warp in a ton of units with warp gate rush
Cannon you
Dark Templar rush
You can prevent the "warp in your base" stuff by preventing them from building in your base. That's easy enough. Cannoning, with appropriate scouting, isn't too difficult to stop. Cutting workers to warp in a ton of units can be seen by a large amount of gateways and units in a protoss base AND his chrono boost being saved up for his warp gate research. DT rush can be seen by a fast Citadel.
So don't let them build in or near your base, scout for early forge, scout for multiple gateways and chrono boosted cyber core, scout for citadel. Toss cheese is out.
Zerg-
Early pool
Baneling bust
One base muta harass
You're terran! If you see an early pool, cut workers to build your wall and send scvs to repair structures on auto-repair when he attacks. Build marines from your rax. Continue maknig scvs/orbital. You win.
Baneling bust can be scouted pretty easily. If he is cutting workers at ~15 drones (when his 3rd OL pops is around this time and you see him constantly harvesting gas and making lings with speed, he's probably going to abneling bust you. You can stop this by putting two mauraders on your ramp at hold position or by simply walling off with barracks and/or all your depots at your front. Multiple barracks/factory/engineering bay is best. If you stop the bust, you win.
One base muta harass is ridiculously easy to stop. His mutas start coming out around 7:30-8:00, so if you don't know what he's doing by then, scan his base. If you see a spire or mutas, build an ebay if you haven't yet and put two turrets in each of your min lines. You've stopped his harass. Marines will then kill mutalisks in a straight up fight.
The only thing to keep in mind with the muta harass is that he often does it to just keep you in your base. The moment he muta harasses you, send an scv to scuot his base. If he doesn't have anything, attack him and build a few more turrets at your base to protect key structures. If he is harassing you and you notice he isn't building more mutalisks, he's building something else (probably ling/bling).
Terran-
**** this race. But you're terran, so it's all cool. You'll figure out what they can do.
Some comments on all-ins and cheesy tech.
Note that a properly executed standard 4 Warpgate rush involves both taking only one gas and cutting workers at 19 (if they warped in a Cybernetics Core and stopped making workers, it's coming). Gateways 2-4 typically also get warped in at the same time, to finish right as Warp Gate research completes (which means starting them at 26 supply), which means you'll have to scout these other signs rather than "multiple gates" to see a 4gate... well, Bronze might do it differently. Two gases signifies either standard teching or a more Sentry-heavy rush, while one gas but no workers cut usually means they're planning to FE.
It's potentially a little harder to scout well-hidden tech since Protoss can hide it in all sorts of locations including outside of their base, but if they're not that crafty then Terran's got it made with Scanner Sweep at around the 6-7 minute timing.
I think you might want bunkers at your wall rather than Depots/Rax if you're up against a 1-base Roach rush.
As for Terran, latest patch changes typically limit them to proxy Barracks cheese all-ins as far as early kills go, so I think they're much more threatening with tech like cloaked Banshees, MMM drops, and other harass-based openings.
Note that a properly executed standard 4 Warpgate rush involves both taking only one gas and cutting workers at 19 (if they warped in a Cybernetics Core and stopped making workers, it's coming). Gateways 2-4 typically also get warped in at the same time, to finish right as Warp Gate research completes (which means starting them at 26 supply), which means you'll have to scout these other signs rather than "multiple gates" to see a 4gate... well, Bronze might do it differently. Two gases signifies either standard teching or a more Sentry-heavy rush, while one gas but no workers cut usually means they're planning to FE.
It's potentially a little harder to scout well-hidden tech since Protoss can hide it in all sorts of locations including outside of their base, but if they're not that crafty then Terran's got it made with Scanner Sweep at around the 6-7 minute timing.
I think you might want bunkers at your wall rather than Depots/Rax if you're up against a 1-base Roach rush.
As for Terran, latest patch changes typically limit them to proxy Barracks cheese all-ins as far as early kills go, so I think they're much more threatening with tech like cloaked Banshees, MMM drops, and other harass-based openings.
hm. i need to do some scouting exercises and learn what it means when i see what i see in toss/zerg bases. i'm not entirely familiar with all their building structures so when i scout i'll be like:
'oh one of those circular thingies and 2 gateways. and a building that looks like a roller coaster. ok.'
'oh one of those circular thingies and 2 gateways. and a building that looks like a roller coaster. ok.'
You can click on opponents' buildings to see what they are.
well i mean yea. what i mean is that i don't know what they do. like i dont know their build infrastructure or building requirements to make other buildings like i know Terran's.
that's just something i need to research on my own for sure
like a good exercise for me would be like if someone said:
"at 4:02, you see "this", "this", and "this" during a scout. what are you most likely to see in the near future?"
that's just something i need to research on my own for sure
like a good exercise for me would be like if someone said:
"at 4:02, you see "this", "this", and "this" during a scout. what are you most likely to see in the near future?"
Tech trees. You can also find them in the Help area of SC2.
Assuming your scout arrives around 15-18 supply, standard openings would usually involve:
Terran
1 Command Center, morphing into Orbital
1 Refinery
2 Supply Depots, one building
1 Barracks, possibly with add-on
Protoss
2 Pylons
1 Assimilator
1 Gateway
1 Cybernetics Core
Zerg
1 Hatchery
1 Spawning Pool, building
1 Extractor
OR
2 Hatcheries
1 Spawning Pool, building
1 Extractor
If you see any of these openings you can generally expect them not to suddenly hit you hard with a random proxy two minutes later, but they're still open-ended enough to lead into anything from passive macro play to an aggressive 1-base timing push. If you spot anything non-standard in your games during the early scout, prepare accordingly, and feel free to ask here if you don't understand what one might mean.
Assuming your scout arrives around 15-18 supply, standard openings would usually involve:
Terran
1 Command Center, morphing into Orbital
1 Refinery
2 Supply Depots, one building
1 Barracks, possibly with add-on
Protoss
2 Pylons
1 Assimilator
1 Gateway
1 Cybernetics Core
Zerg
1 Hatchery
1 Spawning Pool, building
1 Extractor
OR
2 Hatcheries
1 Spawning Pool, building
1 Extractor
If you see any of these openings you can generally expect them not to suddenly hit you hard with a random proxy two minutes later, but they're still open-ended enough to lead into anything from passive macro play to an aggressive 1-base timing push. If you spot anything non-standard in your games during the early scout, prepare accordingly, and feel free to ask here if you don't understand what one might mean.
M@v
Subarashii!
Especially want to comment on zerg. I send my initial scout to check his expo and his base and I have it leave and patrol at his expo if theres no early hatch. If im at like 18-20 supply and there's still no hatchery, I know something's up. So ill run the scv into his base to see if I can catch if its a bust or a 7rr.
That reminds me, OS you forgot to mention the 7rr(7 roach rush)
Basically, its a 1 base all-in that involves getting 7 roaches as fast as possible.
Warning signs:
-No expo
-No zergling speed being researched(look at the pool and see if its moving)
-Roach warren is down
Best ways to counter it is either 2 bunkers with marines, or 1 bunker with marines and marauders outside the bunkers(Marauders outrange the roaches, so they dont need a bunker to protect them).
That reminds me, OS you forgot to mention the 7rr(7 roach rush)
Basically, its a 1 base all-in that involves getting 7 roaches as fast as possible.
Warning signs:
-No expo
-No zergling speed being researched(look at the pool and see if its moving)
-Roach warren is down
Best ways to counter it is either 2 bunkers with marines, or 1 bunker with marines and marauders outside the bunkers(Marauders outrange the roaches, so they dont need a bunker to protect them).
M@v
Subarashii!
I know it doesn't, but people still try it, especially in lower leagues, so Omni will probably have to deal with a couple.
Sensei Hanzo
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2007
- Messages
- 38
It might do you some good to play as other races. I did some 2v2 randoms with SCOTU a while back and that really helped me understand the other races' tech trees. Even if you're not good with them it's still a good exercise that makes you look a bit differently at the different matchups imo.
M@v
Subarashii!
-Yeah, it really helps to know what the other 2 race's capabilities are. Once you get more practice, you'll be able to figure out their overall strategy by scouting them and their base structures.
People keep saying stress this stress that, stress micro, stress macro, but this how I feel in order of importance what you should get good at
50% of the game is SCOUTING. Knowing exactly what your opponent is up to/figuring out his battle plan is soooooooo important. Scout at key times(Ex. after a protoss's cyber core is up and running) by scanning them, running an scv to their front to see what kinds of units are there, sending a reaper into their base(people REALLY need to do this more even in the higher leagues), etc.
25% macro. I'd say this is more important to you than micro now, focus on constant scv production and expanding, and having enough production to keep up. Your unit comps dont matter as much in lower leagues; generally if you have good macro you can roll people there with almost anything.
25% micro. You should start worrying about micro more once you hit high gold/platinum. People here have a good grasp on the game and know how to implement ideas. Micro involves commanding your combat units. It can be as simple as telling a group of marines to attack move, or as complex as doing multiple drops on their mineral lines, while ordering your siege tanks to move up in the center, siege, and have your marines/marauders stim, run up, attack, and fall back to the tanks avoiding banelings.
The first micro technique you should learn once you get involved in it more is kiting. This is having your ranged unit attack a unit with inferior range, then move it back as the unit chases you, fire again while still out of range, and repeat. The easiest kiting in the game would be kiting non-charge zealots with concussive marauders, so it would be good to practice that in a unit tester to get the feel of it. The easiest way to do it is right click a location, when out of range , s key(stop), once they fire, right click again.
People keep saying stress this stress that, stress micro, stress macro, but this how I feel in order of importance what you should get good at
50% of the game is SCOUTING. Knowing exactly what your opponent is up to/figuring out his battle plan is soooooooo important. Scout at key times(Ex. after a protoss's cyber core is up and running) by scanning them, running an scv to their front to see what kinds of units are there, sending a reaper into their base(people REALLY need to do this more even in the higher leagues), etc.
25% macro. I'd say this is more important to you than micro now, focus on constant scv production and expanding, and having enough production to keep up. Your unit comps dont matter as much in lower leagues; generally if you have good macro you can roll people there with almost anything.
25% micro. You should start worrying about micro more once you hit high gold/platinum. People here have a good grasp on the game and know how to implement ideas. Micro involves commanding your combat units. It can be as simple as telling a group of marines to attack move, or as complex as doing multiple drops on their mineral lines, while ordering your siege tanks to move up in the center, siege, and have your marines/marauders stim, run up, attack, and fall back to the tanks avoiding banelings.
The first micro technique you should learn once you get involved in it more is kiting. This is having your ranged unit attack a unit with inferior range, then move it back as the unit chases you, fire again while still out of range, and repeat. The easiest kiting in the game would be kiting non-charge zealots with concussive marauders, so it would be good to practice that in a unit tester to get the feel of it. The easiest way to do it is right click a location, when out of range , s key(stop), once they fire, right click again.
7 minutes? More like 4-5 minutes with 7 roaches lol. Even as a walled-in terran, if your clueless its coming it can kill you.
No kidding, 7RR is more damaging to Protoss than 6pool will ever be.
Your first Tank is built at ~5:30 if you're not doing something insane like gas before rax. This is also assuming you didn't spend any additional gas making marauders. The correct response is to bunker up, not try to win by unit counters.
M@v
Subarashii!
Also, if you got a bunker and say 1-3 marauders, as soon as the zerg hits the ramp and sees the marauder shells flying, he might get scared and just fall back to his base.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
Bunker + Marauder > roaches.
M@v
Subarashii!
If your going straight marauder you don't even need a bunker. Marauders out range roaches so they stand just out of range while scvs repair the wall. If you get a bunker its for marines.
M@v
Subarashii!
Tbh im usually weak to a 7rr because my standard tvz opening is quad hellion to expand. I scout beforehand though to scout for roaches in case i have to switch to marauders.
Fizzi
Smash Ace
7RR can actually straight kill a terran if he's teching too fast. The proper way to execute it is to have an overlord for vision, you can pick off the depot from low ground, sometimes even an addon, then run it.
It's terrible if they went marauder though... I'll only do it on maps on which I don't mind taking a risk, such as delta or steppes.
It's terrible if they went marauder though... I'll only do it on maps on which I don't mind taking a risk, such as delta or steppes.
Scar
#HarveyDent
how many lings do you make when you 7rr
7rr is really easy to scout and really weak to basically any early aggression
when is the next one of these things???
7rr is really easy to scout and really weak to basically any early aggression
when is the next one of these things???
Don't make me post the replay of our first match =). Fake speedlings into roaches = win.
P.S. You still ***** me @ Pound 5.
Nashun
Smash Ace
I can do a round robin/league -> 8-man bracket tournament if there's enough interest.
3-match round robin rounds, top 8 wins goes to bracket. >4 days of inactivity on b.net without posting a legitimate excuse here dqs you from tourney. Replays posted and I can keep track of scores. WHO'S DOWN.
3-match round robin rounds, top 8 wins goes to bracket. >4 days of inactivity on b.net without posting a legitimate excuse here dqs you from tourney. Replays posted and I can keep track of scores. WHO'S DOWN.
Fizzi
Smash Ace
0 lings. I'm not saying 7rr is great by any means, just that it can work.
But how early is this aggression you're talking about? Cause I tend to find that the build actually stops most early aggression pretty well... There's a short timing where you're vulnerable but generally you can keep your drones out of danger long enough for the roaches to pop. The 7 roaches should come out at the same time as your first inject finishing (that's why it's 7), which is pretty early.
And yes, it's basically guaranteed to get scouted. That's the main reason it's bad imo.
If anything make the matches single elim. Cuz double elim will take forever and the fact that they're free just makes it worse. So if you get the boot this time around you just wait until the next that should be in the next month.
Also that 7rr ish sounds weak.
Also that 7rr ish sounds weak.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
For at work I like doing this.
You can practice hotkeys in notepad. Like for Zerg I have 1-3 for army, 4 for hatches, 5,6,7 for queens so I would do:
bh(hatch), bs (Spawning pool),be (extractor)
4sdddddddd
br,(roach) bl (lair)
55v click, 66v click, 77v click, 1a,2a,3a,1s,2h,3a
4s (some unit like) rrrrr
55v, 66v, 77v, 1a2a3a, 2s3h1a
Etc.
And you can see how accurate you are with notepad. Getting better at separating your armies (ie using whatever 3 hotkeys you use for your units) and getting the attack commands and stop commands will help in the long run.
So I imagine for terran you can get better at hotkeys in the same way. Really just getting your hotkey numbers down in correlation to the other buttons you need to press (ie from doing this I now keep my thumb on V when i do the 55,66,77 and just rotate my hand a tiny bit, rather than using my middle finger to hit 55,66,77 and my pointer to hit V).
You can also make a bunch of folders in a file and practice selecting specific groups, I don't really think that would help much though. But I think the notepad practice is decent.
The Valentines Day Funday Monday was hilarious. The make no marines/mauraders/medivacs Funday Monday and the Valentines Day Funday Monday are in my top 2 Day9 Dailies.
I never practice offline. :<
Practicing hotkeys sounds awesome. I watch videos on my laptop as I go to bed everynight. (starcraft lullaby)
What about build orders? I feel like I need to master at least one basic standard build order and work on decreasing the amount of time it takes me to complete it. Is YABOT good for this?
What about build orders? I feel like I need to master at least one basic standard build order and work on decreasing the amount of time it takes me to complete it. Is YABOT good for this?
YABOT is perfect, actually. I recommend starting off by practicing the 1/1/1, since that's pretty much the template for 90% of Terran's builds.
M@v
Subarashii!
I'd say learn 1/1/1(some people call it destiny cloudfist), 3rax(kinda our version of the 4gate), and some sort of fast expand build; theres a bunch out there.