Stale move negation

[kevinw0w]

Is stupid.

Seriously. Let me ask a few questions about it first.

1. Moves get staler even if your opponent isn't hit. WTF.

So you're telling me, that every time I use belay to recover, it loses it's Ko'ing power. Every time I use my d-air to help DI, it loses power. Ridiculous.

2. Do move's power re-generate over time?

Because they should. I know it's to prevent spamming habits, sort of. But if you don't get that power back even if you're hardly using that move, that sucks.

My opinion: Stale move negation should only happen whenever the moves hits (or is shielded). It should very slowly regenerate its power over time.

Thoughts?

And sorry if this is in the wrong forum/board. I'm still sort of new to smashboards.

 

[brinboy789]

umm...im pretty sure your moves dont get decayed when you dont hit unless you hit the balloon or shy guy or something like that. try pummeling, it helps with stale moves

 

[Roihu]

You don't lose power if you don't hit your opponent or any other object. (Item, obstacle of some sort)
Obviously it refreshes.
If it didn't everybody would have complained. You just have to use a variety of moves.
The Stale Move Negation is actually one of the best new features in Brawl. Of course, it may not work against MK and such... but it's still a good feature.

 

[kevinw0w]

You don't lose power if you don't hit your opponent or any other object. (Item, obstacle of some sort)
Obviously it refreshes.
If it didn't everybody would have complained. You just have to use a variety of moves.
The Stale Move Negation is actually one of the best new features in Brawl. Of course, it may not work against MK and such... but it's still a good feature.

Oh... someone told me the moves became weaker even without hitting anything. And the loss isn't very significant, is it? How fast do they regenerate?

I had no idea they even did those things. Thanks for clearing that up for me,

 

[Greenpoe]

It keeps track of 9 moves, and it is very significant, but the further down the list it is, the less significant. So if you use F-smash, then six f-tilts, then another f-smash, the 2nd f-smash would have much more knockback/damage than say, f-smash, f-tilt, f-smash. There's a curve to it, but I forget the details.

 

[kr3wman]

Oh... someone told me the moves became weaker even without hitting anything. And the loss isn't very significant, is it? How fast do they regenerate?

I had no idea they even did those things. Thanks for clearing that up for me,

Around a 9% loss in Knockback and dmg? I think per number of times the attack is in the queue.

 

[Throwback]

There is a link somewhere, too lazy to find it. Basically the game records your last 10 moves that did damage. The more times move X is on that list, the less damage and knockback move X does.

The solution? Hit with other moves to push move X off the decay list.

edit: or 9 moves, whatever.

 

[B0mbe1c]

Yeah, just make sure you refresh your killing moves often, so that they give optimum damage. :D

 

[kevinw0w]

It keeps track of 9 moves, and it is very significant, but the further down the list it is, the less significant. So if you use F-smash, then six f-tilts, then another f-smash, the 2nd f-smash would have much more knockback/damage than say, f-smash, f-tilt, f-smash. There's a curve to it, but I forget the details.

oh, thanks.

That helps a lot.

But I don't think I'll be thinking about 9 moves constantly...

 

[Nintendevil]

It's stupid in a sense that if I have a great setup for a KO move even if it's slightly degenerated, It could flop. But it stops people from ROLL>FSMASH>ROLL>FSMASH. Bad players get punished for it. Then again, some moves are used a lot and are KO moves. Gyro, Snakes Ftilt, which fail even if you use them correctly.

 

[sffadsad]

Sorry, but this is bugging me.

Stale Move Negation means negating (or canceling) the feature of stale moves.

Stale Moves are the actual feature of the game that you're talking about.

 

[Skyflyer]

I agree. One of the main reasons why KO's take longer in brawl.

 

[M15t3R E]

My opinion: Stale move negation should only happen whenever the moves hits (or is shielded). It should very slowly regenerate its power over time.

It does, and it does.
Moves only negate if they connect with the opponent or a stage obstacle (such as parts of the house in luigi's mansion). Moves do NOT deteriorate if they are shielded.

It does regenerate by using other moves. For example, if your best kill move is f-smash and you've been spamming that against your opponent for a while, it'll become "stale". To unstale it, and thus raise its power to be a good kill move again, you'll need to attack with any other moves a few times first to regenerate the power of the f-smash.

Hope that clears things up.

 

[shadowdsfire]

All the move you did is write is a imaginary list of 10 moves. The most your move is in this list, the most your attack will be weak.
Example: if you did a Fair in the game and after you did 9 other attack, your Fair will be the number 10 on the list, so the next attack you will do on your opponent will put it out of the list.
All ur move will go on the list ONLY if you attack your opponent when he is not shielding, dodging or air dodging.

 

[Jman115]

grab someone and instead of throwing them, hit them in the head repeatedly. Best way to replenish moves.

 

[Crow!]

There's a lot of stuff you can do about stale moves; IMO managing your stale move list is one of the more interesting parts of Brawl. "Anti Brawl" debaters often complain about Brawl returning to the status quo condition of people staring at each other from a distance far too often, and the stale move list is one of the ways that the "status quo" is actually very different from one case to the next.

 

[kevinw0w]

Sorry, but this is bugging me.

Stale Move Negation means negating (or canceling) the feature of stale moves.

Stale Moves are the actual feature of the game that you're talking about.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/technique/technique10.html

scroll down a little. It's called stale move negation. Not "stale moves"

grab someone and instead of throwing them, hit them in the head repeatedly. Best way to replenish moves.

Ah. So pummeling will help? What about jabs? Will they "move the list"?

---

thanks for your help guys. I thought it was just all attacks get staler. Even without hitting anything. And the moves never replenished.

Well now it doesn't seem so bad. It's a good feature imo now.

 

[Kraryo]

The stale moves mechanic in Brawl is one of the few things Brawl got right. Now that it reduces knockback instead of just damage like it was in Melee, it encourages people to do more than just usmash with Fox.

 

[Anther]

And if you try to consciously think about it, eventually the list habitually forms in your mind as you play.
Especially helpful when you're keeping track of which of your opponents kill moves have a greater chance of not killing.

 

[DRaGZ]

Stale Moves are a good thing. It forces newbs to be strategic, which in turns forces them to get better.

 

[sffadsad]

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/howto/technique/technique10.html

scroll down a little. It's called stale move negation. Not "stale moves"

Wow... That's ********... It makes no sense grammatically....

But on a note related to the topic pummels each count as different moves in the move "list" so if you pummel your enemy nine times or more your previous move is replenished. I think jabs also count as separate moves as well.

 

[Napilopez]

I agree that stale moveification is actually a good feature in brawl. I know it was in other games, but obviously its significantly more prominent in brawl as it affects knockback too.

Anyways, its a pain for sonic though.. because alll of his spin related attacks stale each other T-T

 

[DraKmoN001]

I agree that stale moveification is actually a good feature in brawl. I know it was in other games, but obviously its significantly more prominent in brawl as it affects knockback too.

Anyways, its a pain for sonic though.. because alll of his spin related attacks stale each other T-T

To me I think that is sort of beneficial, as it allows Sonic to string attacks together much better due to the opponent not moving far enough away. Besides, I can't really ever imagine killing someone with the knock-back from SD or SC. Have you?

 

[Ulevo]

Stale moves were a brilliant addition to Brawl. It is one of the aspects of Brawl that separates the good from the bad players. You don't need to keep track of 9 different moves, you simply need to be aware of the moves you've used repeatedly that could have been used to KO, so you know what your other options are. Or you can also do what many other players do and save a move for a KO. It's about playing conservatively.

Also... Complaining about an aspect of Brawl, calling it "stupid", and then asking questions about it (indicating you're obviously uninformed) after doing so isn't the most brilliant method of attempting to create discussion. Just be aware of this in the future.

 

[K 2]

I agree! I'm glad stale moves are in brawl since it prevents people from spamming quick, powerful attacks (MK's dsmash), by significantly lowering the damage and knockback.

 

[kevinw0w]

Also... Complaining about an aspect of Brawl, calling it "stupid", and then asking questions about it (indicating you're obviously uninformed) after doing so isn't the most brilliant method of attempting to create discussion. Just be aware of this in the future.

Um... sorry. Thanks for all the responses guys. I don't think it's necessary to keep track of the moves in your head, but yes. Play conservatively.

I don't think many "casuals" even know of Stale move negation though.

 

[mostwins]

Pummeling and jabs do this the best I think.

Dtilts and certain non-KO potential aerials also work great.

You have to think about your characters KO moves and use them only when you feel they can potentially KO your fellow Brawler for maximum effect.

 

[PillowPants]

grab someone and instead of throwing them, hit them in the head repeatedly. Best way to replenish moves.

^this^ alltho personally i dont wrry bout it too much

 

[PillowPants]

grab someone and instead of throwing them, hit them in the head repeatedly. Best way to replenish moves.

^this^ alltho personally i dont wrry bout it too much

 

[Punishment Divine]

Do you really want a world where MK's dsmash and Snake's ftilt never diminish?

 

[Megavitamins]

Is stupid.

Seriously. Let me ask a few questions about it first.

1. Moves get staler even if your opponent isn't hit. WTF.

So you're telling me, that every time I use belay to recover, it loses it's Ko'ing power. Every time I use my d-air to help DI, it loses power. Ridiculous.

2. Do move's power re-generate over time?

Because they should. I know it's to prevent spamming habits, sort of. But if you don't get that power back even if you're hardly using that move, that sucks.

My opinion: Stale move negation should only happen whenever the moves hits (or is shielded). It should very slowly regenerate its power over time.


Thoughts?

And sorry if this is in the wrong forum/board. I'm still sort of new to smashboards.

1. No they dont. Wow, good job, did you even test this?

2. Moves regenerate when you use another move, and it connects with something. It doesnt matter if its the same move your spamming, it will regenerate the other move.

3. you're dumb