Stage Striking in G&W's Favor: Stage Dis/Advantages Discussion

[YellaFeva]

So what are the stages that aid Game and Watch? I believe that stages with low ceilings are beneficial, but what do you think are the best/worst stages for G&W in general. (or in a specific matchup that you have experienced.)

Dreamland 64 sucks with that high ceiling... And in my opinion the absolute worst stage with FD coming in a close second.

 

[dettadeus]

Fountain of Dreams is my all-time favorite stage. The platforms are often at perfect heights for continuing combos and are very close to each other, which helps Uair strings and UpB combos a lot. It's also really easy to ledge cancel your aerials all over the place. The close blastlines make G&W kill ridiculously early as well.
Second favorite is probably WarioWare or Yoshi's Story for a lot of the same reasons. G&W doesn't have particularly stellar horizontal recovery, so larger blast lines only help us against vertical killers.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

I assume stages like FD or DL64 may be efficient due to how high the stages are relative to the bottom blast zone. Mostly because GnW has that awesome vertical distance on his Up B

But yeah, FoD really seems like the best stage overall.

 

[YellaFeva]

I personally don't like Yoshi's story. Just because of hard it is to sweetspot the ledge without dying from the low bottom.

 

[Metmetm3t]

G&W isn't too terribly affected by any particular stage layout, not even high ceilings. The strategy is definitely to find stages that are the worst for your opponent.

 

[ZaXXoR]

G&W isn't too terribly affected by any particular stage layout, not even high ceilings. The strategy is definitely to find stages that are the worst for your opponent.

very true, so basically don't fight marth on yoshi's or wario?

 

[YellaFeva]

very true, so basically don't fight marth on yoshi's or wario?

Exactly. Never fight Marth on Yoshi's Story.

If you identify any more stage advantages in a specific matchup please share.

 

[Juushichi]

I'm not entirely sure about FoD vs DDD.

Do not give Falcon PS1, PS2 or SV.

 

[dettadeus]

I'd take small stages vs Dedede. We can die early regardless, but with larger blastlines, we lose our advantage of killing him really early.

Smaller stages in general vs Falcon as well, platforms might actually not be a good idea to keep around vs him as well. We have Uthrow combos on him all day and platforms can interrupt them at low percents.

 

[KayB]

Don't play against Marth period lol.

Also, I don't understand why people like to kill vertically. Killing horizontally with fair, nair, and F-smash seems far more effective than using U-smash imo. Actually, I think a higher ceiling benefits GW due to how easily he can be star KO'd.

 

[YellaFeva]

Don't play against Marth period lol.

Also, I don't understand why people like to kill vertically. Killing horizontally with fair, nair, and F-smash seems far more effective than using U-smash imo. Actually, I think a higher ceiling benefits GW due to how easily he can be star KO'd.

You are right in the sense that killing horizontally is great with G&W. But in my style of play I usually CC Dtilt (when under offensive pressure), and with a lower ceiling, usually provides the kill for me.

U-smash is very situational and is not the reason why I like to kill vertically.

 

[Juushichi]

DACUS is usually the way I kill vertically or CC dilt.

To clear up my previous comment, I think that FoD is far and away DDD's best stage so I wouldn't take him there. YS is pretty solid. I'll get a lot of sets in with Watch at APEX and we'll see where things go. Gonna take a bunch of notes on sets because I know I won't remember them all afterwards, lol.

 

[YellaFeva]

DACUS is usually the way I kill vertically or CC dilt.

To clear up my previous comment, I think that FoD is far and away DDD's best stage so I wouldn't take him there. YS is pretty solid. I'll get a lot of sets in with Watch at APEX and we'll see where things go. Gonna take a bunch of notes on sets because I know I won't remember them all afterwards, lol.

I wish I could go to APEX for G&W matches. I'm really curious to see what happens and what you find out.

 

[KayB]

I'm pretty sure most characters kill G&W faster on levels with shorter ceilings than he can kill with d-tilt. Personally, I'm most comfortable with Dreamland and FD. That being said, I wouldn't mind going on FoD for a few matches since smaller stages also benefit G&W in certain MUs, but if things aren't going my way, I go to DL or FD.

 

[G13_Flux]

well thats very dependant on what ways your opponent kills. if your opponent is fox, then both of u are going to die early vertically on low ceiling stages just due to the nature of each others killers. if ur playing against falcon however, who is in no way killing u vertically, then a short ceiling may benefit since he has a lot of vertical survivability. its up to you to weigh the pros and cons of how you kill versus how your opponent kills.

 

[Magus420]

Low ceilings can be good not only for vertical sending KO moves, but also because stuff like up-b n/f-air in the air can connect high above the stage where the top blastzone becomes a significant threat on these moves when it normally wouldn't be. Also d-smash wasn't mentioned but the vertical hit isn't far off from u-smash in power.

 

[G13_Flux]

i love the hammer. its one of my favorite moves of his, though you must be patient with its use, as its hitbox doesnt cover anything above ground level, so an aerial approach can easily punish it.

i also tend to prefer stages with platforms as GW. his throws can set up for tech chases on the platforms which he can cover options very well with his aerials and his up b. he can also defend himself well when hes on a platform, with good use of his dair, and his long WD to take full advantage of platform mobility. in addition, his SHdouble bacon is great at limiting aerial approaches that might arise off of others attempts to make use of platfom mobility. platforms can also help extend his combos longer, and to higher lengths, which only means lower kill %s for GW. Other characters can obviously manipulate platforms in a similar manor against GW, but i feel that his moveset compliments it more than others' might.

 

[Slashy]

Smashville, Castle Siege, Yoshi's Island are great stages due to their low ceilings and large stage platforms

 

[Jim Morrison]

FD is fine, platforms ruin your spam

 

[Juushichi]

I believe that whenever you can, unless you want to take away a particular stage for a MU you should get rid of either Stadium and Smashville.

I don't believe that GnW likes large stages at all.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Why would you strike away smashville though?

 

[G13_Flux]

dont forget GW has a great WD to help with mobility on larger stages. they arent necessarily that bad because GW has extremely powerful moves that can kill early, and it helps him live a bit longer. platforms might ruin spam, but spam isnt neccisarily the best choice. I find platforms very helpful with GW for the reasons i described above. i prefer them to non platform stages in all honesty. but i think GW favorite stages are very MU dependent, as u must take into consideration the opponents speed, and how they kill. Some characters like falco and marth have specific stages they tend to love and peform well on against almost anyone. but with GW it takes a bit more analysis into how you perform vs ur opponent.

 

[dettadeus]

Big stages only help him in regards to survivability if they don't have much horizontal distance to cover while recovering.

G&W doesn't exactly have a good horizontal recovery like other characters who benefit heavily from larger stages (Jiggs, Peach, etc).

And I would only go to FD against a character who I know either abuses platforms harder than G&W or who I can chaingrab with Uthrow. I probably would never counterpick it myself and would actually probably switch to ROB if I was CP'd to it.

 

[G13_Flux]

yeah thats very true. i wouldnt CP FD either, my favorite stage with GW is battlefield. i am also fine with the stadiums,

 

[Oracle]

FD is good for game and watch against floaty characters because projectile spam. Dakpo too my ROB to FD at the last tournament and made the air a no fly zone with bacon. He got really close to winning

 

[Juushichi]

Why would you strike away smashville though?

Because it is a longer FD with an overhead platform and I don't think GnW likes large stages?

GnW has a very good WD, with a lot of slow options out of it (iirc, dtilt is like the fastest... otherwise I guess jab/DA/grab). The options that I would like to use: WD fsmash/ftilt/dsmash all take some preemptive measures and if you don't get in with them fast enough on most characters you're asking to get messed up. Honestly, I think his WD/WL is a lot more useful for general movement (platforms) and specifically defensive movement (baiting with his DD/retreating into moves) and that works on mid-length stages and short ones where the opponent is cornered against a ledge (like YS or something) more easily.

I might have changed my opinion on GnW on Pokemon Stadium against certain characters, though.

 

[G13_Flux]

thats true. his WD can help a lot when it comes to tech chasing. WD > dtilt covers great range, thats definitely a solid option, but yeah when it comes to smashes its not quite as useful as someone like luigi with his wavesmashes.

i like the stadiums (much more so 2 than 1) because the double platforms which are very small compliment GWs ability to set up tech chases on them and make use of general platform mobility. like his parachute can cover an entire platform and then some. if find that a uair approach from below onto platforms works very well too especially with the landing hit. i dont think anybody else appreciates/sees the use of those landing hits as much as i do. theyre so good for pressure and keeping urself safe when attacking.

 

[Nahpro]

Personal opinions:

Just popping in to say that as G&W I like small stages (or at least small blast zones) that have a lot of platforms (because of parachute follow ups.) Favorites are Wario ware and Green Hill zone. Fountain of dreams can be pretty fun to camp under platforms on. This hard and fast rule does not apply to Yoshi's Island. That stage can die in a fire. The bottom blast zone is just too high to abuse G&W's high vertical recovery.

Battlefield can be alright depending on the opponent. Same with Smashville. I have really mixed feelings about final destination. The sides of the stages are amazing for abusing the sliding properties of up+B but no platforms. So exposed and less opportunities to start and continue aerial combos. Also, the only reason I dislike pokemon stadium is because of the weird lip stuff.

 

[leelue]

Exactly. Never fight Marth

Fixedfixedfixedfixedfixed

This is marth when he fights G&W

 

[Little Nemo]

Sorry to bump. I think this is relevant enough to not warrant a warning.

Exactly. Never fight Marth on Yoshi's Story.

Just fought my friend for like 5 hours yesterday. Mostly G&W vs Marth. I actually disagree with this. I think Yoshi's is maybe G&W's best stage. I don't play a spammy G&W so maybe that's why?
We did a lot of sets and I experiments with striking. G&W seems to like small stages with platforms. I found PS2 to be maybe the hardest stage to fight on aside from FD. Yoshi's and Yoshi's Brawl were definitely my best stages but maybe that's from personal preference and not so much the character?

 

[CarrotBran]

Wario, FoD and Yoshi's are pretty great as previously stated.

 

[WillieDangerously]

I agree with the consensus of FoD. It's really comfy for combos, The horizontal isn't too large to make recovery impossible, and the ceiling is at a good spot as well.
For me, it is mostly situation where I like to go, depending on who I fight. I actually like FD as a player, but I think there are many other characters, such as the spacies or Marth, who could take advantage of G&W more than G&W on them. Smashville is a little more in my favor, but sort of the same story.
Personally, I like Yoshi's Story simply because of all the sweetspotting ledge practice I've had makes me feel comfortable in recovering, while the tiny spaces work to my advantage.
Pokemon Stadium 2 and Metal Cap Cavern are also ones I favor. I appreciate some ledges, like 1 or 2 on stage, but not like Battlefield with multiple ledges. I want the few in case for follow up areal combos, but I don't like stages where there are too many ledges where when you are high up your opponent can reach you so easily. You can take advantage of the small spaces in Metal Cap for stage control, but also utilize the low floor to easily sweetspot back to ledge.
I can't really say I like Skyworld because of how often I accidentally miss the ledge and hit my head on the floor. Same for Skyloft. Another thing about Skyloft is also how your angle on the stairs often messes with the direction of your dtilt and your bacon. Strangely I don't have this issue with Metal Cap.