Stage Speculation and Discussion Thread

[Sabertooth]

I read that Piranha Plant is getting a stage, actually.

 

[UberPyro64]

Yes, the press release said that Piranha Plant was coming with a stage. It might be an error on their part but that's what it says.

 

[DutchPichu]

Oooh, than we will have a perfect square by february 2020 :-D

 

[RileyXY1]

Oooh, than we will have a perfect square by february 2020 :-D

This also implies that Piranha Plant and the five characters in the Fighter Pass are all we are getting for DLC.

 

[Luigifan18]

This also implies that Piranha Plant and the five characters in the Fighter Pass are all we are getting for DLC.

It's probably all that they currently have planned. Once the DLC has sold like freaking hotcakes, there will most likely be a second wave of it.

 

[Sabertooth]

If we're not getting a Stage Builder, then hopefully at least we'll get a ton of great DLC stages.

 

[C-G]

Two questions:

1) Do we HAVE to make a community decision on Hazardless/Not Hazardless, or can we agree to toggle between them?

2) How is everyone's experiences with sloped ledges? The Castlevania stage looks legal except for that lone question mark

 

[NewGuy79]

So Greward found a lot of info on hazardless stages; there is too much for me to touch on now but it should be noted that both skyloft & wuhu island are static layouts that do not transform, they should definitely be considered now.

 

[Thinkaman]

The reference to Piranha Plant coming with a stage was a mistake, and was been removed from official materials within a very short amount of time. Go check for yourself.

With 5 DLC stages, the existing stage select screen grid will be full when the Practice Stage is present.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Two questions:

1) Do we HAVE to make a community decision on Hazardless/Not Hazardless, or can we agree to toggle between them?

2) How is everyone's experiences with sloped ledges? The Castlevania stage looks legal except for that lone question mark

1) I highly doubt the TO of any large-scale event (basically anything where you don't know everyone else there by name) will want to risk a player accidentally forgetting (or maliciously "forgetting") to switch the hazard toggle appropriately between matches and sets. It's far simpler both in terms of logistics and in terms of rule enforcement to simply have a blanket "hazards on" or "hazards off" rule...and "hazards off" is objectively superior IMO for the sheer number of stages it enables, compared to the small handful it hurts.

2) Insufficient data to say for sure. The closest we have is Lylat Cruise, whose slopes are nowhere near as steep as the stairs on Dracula's Castle, and some of the platforms on Delfino Plaza, which aren't really comparable in the first place. This firmly falls under "we need to see how it plays out," which in turn means we shouldn't be banning it right out of the gate unless and until it's been demonstrated to encourage degenerate gameplay.

 

[King Omega]

Blanket hazards off would be such a mistake, completely ruining Smashville and Town & City while only gaining what, PS1/2 and Kalos?

Players are already responsible for observing strict character and stage rules in between every match they play. It's nonsense to suggest they could never be trusted to toggle hazards in a tournament setting. If you're so worried, make the rule if you strike/cp to a stage that requires the toggle, it's your responsibility to set the toggle the correct way, otherwise your opponent can force you to forfeit the game.

 

[DT Raw]

FoD needs to be in

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Blanket hazards off would be such a mistake, completely ruining Smashville and Town & City while only gaining what, PS1/2 and Kalos?

Players are already responsible for observing strict character and stage rules in between every match they play. It's nonsense to suggest they could never be trusted to toggle hazards in a tournament setting. If you're so worried, make the rule if you strike/cp to a stage that requires the toggle, it's your responsibility to set the toggle the correct way, otherwise your opponent can force you to forfeit the game.

Pokemon Stadium, Kalos Pokemon League, Wuhu Island, Lylat Cruise, Castle Siege, Warioware, Arena Ferox, Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon. 10 stages, minimum, where hazards off directly fixes the stage's problems.

This isn't including stages like Smashville that are perfectly fine either way.
This isn't including stages like Yoshi's Island Brawl that could be legal anyway but are still helped with a hazard toggle.
This isn't including stages like Reset Bomb Forest that are unquestionably improved but still have a sufficiently unusual layout to leave room for doubt.
This isn't including stages like Mushroom Kingdom U that might be too big for singles but would work just fine for doubles.
This isn't including stages like Pirate Ship that still have one or two issues left to be potential sticking points.
This isn't including stages like Pictochat that would be redundant with existing options.
This isn't including stages like Big Blue that we simply don't know enough about yet.
This isn't including stages like Dracula's Castle that are brand new and thus difficult to frame in this specific discussion. (How do you "improve" a stage that we have no prior experience with?)

Meanwhile blanket hazards off would potentially hurt...

Smashville, and Town & City, even though they're still fine stages with temporary platforms -- just different.
Dream Land, Fountain of Dreams, and Yoshi's Story, all of which lose the primary features that differentiate them from Battlefield.

And...I think that's it? Maybe Umbra Clock Tower, but that was banned in 4 so I don't see it being allowed as-is in Ultimate. Pokemon Stadium 2 and Unova Pokemon League would likely be redundant with Pokemon Stadium 1, but none of the three are likely to be allowed with hazards on at all so hazards off still results in a net gain of 1 stage from that group.

So how do you define "ruining" a stage? Because Smashville and Town & City are hardly ruined by having stationary platforms. Different, yes, but not ruined. Dream Land, Fountain of Dreams, and Yoshi's Story could potentially be made redundant with Battlefield, which would be a loss, but there's still plenty of debate to be had on how to address such redundencies in stage design. And the only stage in the game I can think of that could possibly be legal with hazards on but banned with hazards off is Great Plateau Tower.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I think Nintendo should redefine its definition of a hazard less option. Moving platforms made stages unique and weren’t hazards. It’s ruining many beloved stages that really should have kept their dynamics. Yoshi’s Island should have its platform tilt. Fountain of Dreams should keep its moving platforms. Smashville should have its moving platform. I can understand Town and City because the platforms can drag characters off to the side blast zones, but that’s fixable my not making it transform. Moving platforms are not a hazard in most cases and should not be removed from the hazardless stages.

 

[Weeman]

Adding a hazards toggle for the stage select screen like the omega stage one in 4 would be amazing. At that point having a hybrid hazards on/off stage list would be very likely.
Smashville with hazards on and off could even be considered a different stage lol.

 

[Z1GMA]

Now how do we get Sakurai to put the Hazard Toggle in the Level Select where it should be?

 

[Dreamking]

While the hazard toggle is nice, I don't like the all or nothing aspect of it. It seems I would have to switch it on if I want to play Norfair with lava and then off if I want to play at Wily Castle to avoid the Yellow Devil. I would have a hazard toggle menu where every hazard aspect can be toggled. What if I like certain microgames at the WarioWare stage or certain Pokemon at Saffron City? Then there are aspects that I don't really consider hazards like Fountain of Dreams moving platforms.

 

[jwillenn]

This FD is niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!

 

[Veggi]

Edit: Didn't realize there was a more specific thread for this sort of thing somewhere else. My bad.

As someone who has a lot of experience with competitive Brawl and not as much with Smash 4, my memory is still pretty good about why stages in Brawl were legal or banned. I also am able to see a lot of major differences that would make Hazards Off stages much more viable to be legal.

1.) Hazards Off, obv. Making almost all stages way better.

2.) A lot of stages were banned because of Metaknight (an already polarizing character) being even more polarized on many counterpick stages. Part of the reason many stages were banned was to keep MK from being better than he already was. There is no reason (yet) to believe a similar situation will happen in Ultimate.

3.) Chaingrabs don't work anymore. This means that stages with temporary walk-offs and walls are not nearly as devastating. Plus, some stages without those things still benefited from the existance of chain grabs or other grab combos.

4.) Gliding is gone.

5.) The ledge is not nearly as safe as it used to be. So stages that were banned because of overpowered ledge play (including sharking) need to be retested.

6.) Dodging is much easier to counter. Stages that are large or could possibly allow circle camping are much less of a threat. It is now not as effective to frequently dodge the opponent. Characters like Metaknight, Sonic, and Wario who made this a threat have also been altered to make these strategies less effective.

7.) Many factors combined can make a stage legal or illegal. Like for example, Jungle Japes. Jungle Japes was bad because of chain grab>spike, had abusable ledges, a devastating hazard, a top tier that dominated on the stage (Falco) because of the factors listed above, and the rushing water. All of these things have changed in Smash Ultimate, including the rushing water, which moves at a slower pace.

Basically, what I'm saying is Ultimate has changed a ton of things that completely warrant retesting stages in a tournament setting. Even with all it's problems, the stage meta in Brawl was way more exciting than in Smash 4. With Ultimate we have the unique opportunity to have a lot of great stages that can be played in tournament and I don't want to see it go to waste because Ultimate stages are being judged based on an inappropriate metric. The reason I'm comparing Ultimate to Brawl and not Smash 4 is because I actually agree almost all the stages in Smash 4 deserve to be banned.

 

[King9999]

The stage selection process is going to be interesting. Personally, I would like to see random select of all legal stages. I don't like the idea of stage "seasons" where only a certain set of stages are available for a period of time, and then rotated out with a new set.

Also, I hope the community at least tries stage morphing for a side tourney or something.

 

[blackghost]

The stage selection process is going to be interesting. Personally, I would like to see random select of all legal stages. I don't like the idea of stage "seasons" where only a certain set of stages are available for a period of time, and then rotated out with a new set.

Also, I hope the community at least tries stage morphing for a side tourney or something.

i dont know why the discussion on stage morphing just vanished. people gave more effort into trying to win the argument for final smashes than they did for stage morphing. stage morphing fixes the game 1 issue we have.

blanket hazards on or off is a mistake. when given two viable options creating absolutes is a mistake.
people will actually be mad if hazards off removes fountain of dreams and a few others.

but it is worth noting hazards off smashville is a WAY more neutral stage than default. i've never known why smashville is neutral

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is there a reason competitive play can't just, like, use every stage in Battlefield mode?

 

[blackghost]

Is there a reason competitive play can't just, like, use every stage in Battlefield mode?

we had a mode with every stage as FD and some STILL got banned. anything is possible. i dont expect more than 7-8 stages to be used. no faith in these TOs and elite players

 

[DarthEnderX]

we had a mode with every stage as FD and some STILL got banned.

I was under the impression that a lot of people didn't want to play on FD all the time because a lot of the game's mechanics simply don't come into play without any platforms.

But it seems like playing BF all the time still gives you access to that, while giving you a stable, regular stage layout, and also giving you access to the most visual diversity for the viewing audience.

 

[blackghost]

I was under the impression that a lot of people didn't want to play on FD all the time because a lot of the game's mechanics simply don't come into play without any platforms.

But it seems like playing BF all the time still gives you access to that, while giving you a stable, regular stage layout, and also giving you access to the most visual diversity for the viewing audience.

i dont think stage diversity is achieved through backgrounds. it is acheived by gameplay differences. it is becuase of this belief i like stages like lylat and traveling stages. both require you to demonstrate that you have knowedge and mastery of the mechanics most common in smash compared to other games. its a platform fighter, learn to platform.

xandu has released its initial stage list:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18uTTte3eGEvxp4lFlzkcbpZa7S6e5UhB1MBZeZm4QdU/preview

and like people here have siad due to hazards off FoD is NOT LEGAL. **** gonna hit the fan man.

also warioware legal??? lol wait until bayo and shiek abuse it it watch it vanish. the top platforms are too high.
at least miis have their custom moves.

choosing to be lazy and not toggle hazards on or off is crazy. if someone messes it up and it's their pick, they take the loss. seems simple to me.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Huh, has anyone watched a match of Hazardless Town & City? It's actually super interesting.

It still has the two different formations, but the platforms don't move.

So it kind of turns into an inverted triangle form of Battlefield which is a stage we never actually had, and then it turns into final destination during the transitions, then finally it turns into Pokemon Kalos League hazardless with the Platforms being off the stage.

 

[FieryRebirth]

So, I just noticed that the Wii U Star Fox stage(forgot the name)is missing on the website. I hated this stage so much, has it been deconfirmed?

 

[Zinith]

So, I just noticed that the Wii U Star Fox stage(forgot the name), is missing on the website. I hated this stage so much, has it been deconfirmed?

Yes, Orbital Gate Assault has been disconfirmed

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

So, I just noticed that the Wii U Star Fox stage(forgot the name)is missing on the website. I hated this stage so much, has it been deconfirmed?

Yes, that abomination of a stage isn't coming back at least to the main game. I did actually like the omega form in Smash 4, but it was still nothing compared to that of Lylat Cruise, so adding that stage just for the design would be redundant.

 

[Koopaul]

Here's an interesting question. I know you can set which stages will or will not appear when you hit Random but I was wondering if there was a way to have it so that when you hit Random, certain stages are always in Battlefield form and certain stages always have their hazards off and certain stages are in Omega form etc.

When I play the game with friends, sometimes we play a few random matches. But I want to make sure that the more annoying stages are hazard free or even in Battlefield form if we land on them. But I don't want them off entirely.

 

[fogbadge]

i take it hanebow is still silent?

 

[Lucas Storey]

i take it hanebow is still silent?

Nope. It has music now.

 

[fogbadge]

Nope. It has music now.

really? neat

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Is there an option to make it silent?

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Is there an option to make it silent?

Seems like the ambient noises for Electroplankton is still in, so you should be able to make it silent.

I have a question about Moray Towers, do we know how to turn it into it's Splatfest (night) version? I suppose it's something like holding L or R. And does this version exist as a FD / BF stage?

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Well Smashville in Smash 4 and I believe Brawl as well had a night version too. It was based on your system time. If it was day where you were, the stage was day. If it was night where you were, the stage was night.

Try that with Moray Towers. I wouldn't put it past me if the developers did that.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well Smashville in Smash 4 and I believe Brawl as well had a night version too. It was based on your system time. If it was day where you were, the stage was day. If it was night where you were, the stage was night.

Try that with Moray Towers. I wouldn't put it past me if the developers did that.

Well, I'd like to try, but I do intend on getting Smash legally
Also I don't believe Moray Towers uses the clock for it's night and day version, as Splatoon do not have it, it's only night during Splatfests. The feature for Smashville and Town & City is cool though, reflecting Animal Crossing very well!

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Well, I'd like to try, but I do intend on getting Smash legally

Understandable. I feel the same way.

Also I don't believe Moray Towers uses the clock for it's night and day version, as Splatoon do not have it, it's only night during Splatfests. The feature for Smashville and Town & City is cool though, reflecting Animal Crossing very well!

It was just a thought. Unless it's a button press like Boxing Ring, I don't see what else it could be.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Well, I'd like to try, but I do intend on getting Smash legally
Also I don't believe Moray Towers uses the clock for it's night and day version, as Splatoon do not have it, it's only night during Splatfests. The feature for Smashville and Town & City is cool though, reflecting Animal Crossing very well!

Understandable. I feel the same way.

It was just a thought. Unless it's a button press like Boxing Ring, I don't see what else it could be.

I would think/would've thought it would've been based on songs, kinda like whether you used 1-1 or 1-2 for Mushroomy Kingdom in Brawl. For example, Night would be mostly Squid Sisters/Off The Hook songs like Ink Me Up, Calamari Inkantation, Ebb and Flow, and Fly Octo Fly, while Day would be the rest, since one thing I noticed during the E3 demo is that it looked like the Day/Night backgrounds were based on something like that.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

It could be based on songs indeed, although I'm unsure of that as Calamari Inkantation and I Am Octavio were played during day, at least in gameplay I've seen. But they are not Splatfest tracks, although Calamari Inkantation is indeed a Squid Sisters song.