Meta Stage Legality Discussion Thread:

[PUK]

In some form is the most important.
3 of the transformation gives a huge advantage to projectile user. It's not degenerative, but it changes the way the fight is done in one of the strongest extent among the potential legal stages.

 

[MajorMajora]

In some form is the most important.
3 of the transformation gives a huge advantage to projectile user. It's not degenerative, but it changes the way the fight is done in one of the strongest extent among the potential legal stages.

So? I don't see how that is any different than the idea of a particular character being really strong against non-projectile users. Oh, actually, it's even less of a problem because stages can be striked/banned.

 

[PUK]

yes but you have to limit the list of legal stages somewhere, and there is several stages less "janky" than unys.

 

[MajorMajora]

In some form is the most important.
3 of the transformation gives a huge advantage to projectile user. It's not degenerative, but it changes the way the fight is done in one of the strongest extent among the potential legal stages.

So? I don't see how that is any different than the idea of a particular character being really strong against non-projectile users. Oh, actually, it's even less of a problem because stages can be striked/banned.

yes but you have to limit the list of legal stages somewhere, and there is several stages less "janky" than unys.

Why? Do we want to limit the list of legal characters? No. It's in the game, you learn it or you don't, and if you don't it bites you back. Someone who did practice on it will come up and beat you on it and it'll be your fault for not knowing it. You don't take people seriously for complaining that there are too many match ups to learn. (I'm assuming this is why you made your point, since that is the most common reason I hear. If it isn't your point please explain, and my apologies).

We should get rid of a stage if we have to, but if we don't we should keep it in. The only exception I can come up with is so that we can fit a 1+4n list for FLSS, but that's it. If a stage works, we keep it. Even if no one wants to play on it, you keep it, because some day someone will learn it and they will use that to get an advantage, and that is a good thing. People finding and using depth is a good thing. That's why we don't ban Mii sword fighter just because no one wants to use him Actually I take that back, since picking a stage is inherently different because it effects the opponent as well, so I guess that wasn't the best example in some ways, but at the same time it still highlights the ridiculousness of limiting people when we don't need to. If pros complain when they lose to someone who learned it when they didn't we have to point the fingers at them, where they belong.

 

[Tornado]

I understand not every stage in a tournament can be Omega and I don't want every stage Omega. But Castle Siege just seems like a stage that could cause way too many unnecessary issues in tournament play. Halberd, Delfino, Lylat, they have obstructions in some way and the stage changes on 2 of those but nothing like Siege.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but the way the stages transition to change is weird to fight in, the 2nd set up that's super big and has a walk-off possibility with huge statues all over eating items fired/thrown by projectile characters and the huge fighting area. The lava part is ok but with those transitions, getting killed because you're a few frames to the right or left thus fall below SDing is just dumb for tournament play.

 

[Xermo]

It's a great stage, that's why. Also because Brawl.

 

[Tinkerer]

The transition is awkward but also very easy to adjust to as there's major visual and audio cues for it. Other than that there's really nothing at all wrong with it, it's a good counterpick.

 

[clydeaker]

How about we ban every single stage except for Final Destination, Battlefield, and Smashville,. Ha ha jk. That would be too bland in my opinion.

 

[GoldM]

I know this isnt a custom stage share but i made fd melee Miiverse:TakoTuesday

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I think you're misunderstanding; I don't think that a scenario like this should exist on a legal stage.

We see similar things to this on SV, T&C, Castle Siege, Wuhu, you name it. Gimmicky, early kills caused half by one player outplaying the other and half by the other player just not knowing how to deal with the situation. See also: literally anyone who ever airdodges a ganon or CF dthrow on the ledge and DIs in.

 

[The Groose]

I think that Pokemon Stadium 2 should only be legal in it's 8 player format, since there are no stage transformations that way, as the stage transformations have a much larger impact on games than the original Pokemon Stadium did.

 

[Omegaphoenix]

I think that Pokemon Stadium 2 should only be legal in it's 8 player format, since there are no stage transformations that way, as the stage transformations have a much larger impact on games than the original Pokemon Stadium did.

While I completly disagree with you, I acknowledge the point that PS2 has a solid neutral stage unlike anything else. The problem there is logistics. You would need to add three random players and suicide all of them just to get a 1v1 started. Way to time consuming. Maybe for doubles since you could use the gamepad for jigglycides, but still, waste of time. Just use regular PS2, if you're willing to take the time to learn it, it may suprise you

 

[The Groose]

While I completly disagree with you, I acknowledge the point that PS2 has a solid neutral stage unlike anything else. The problem there is logistics. You would need to add three random players and suicide all of them just to get a 1v1 started. Way to time consuming. Maybe for doubles since you could use the gamepad for jigglycides, but still, waste of time. Just use regular PS2, if you're willing to take the time to learn it, it may suprise you

It's not that time consuming, if you have a few spare controllers lying around it takes like a max of about 30 seconds to SD the three players. They showed it in a video a while back.

 

[MajorMajora]

It's not that time consuming, if you have a few spare controllers lying around it takes like a max of about 30 seconds to SD the three players. They showed it in a video a while back.

The problem is more of a planning one. Tourneys plan around worst case scenario, which assumes all games go to time and all sets go to the third game. Lets say you expect to get 20 rounds of smash in at 2 stocks 6 minutes. That's 6 minutesX60 games=360 minutes, or 6 hours. If you have the ability to do the SD, you need to add a minute to the start of the match before hand and wait for it to count down (to avoid decreasing the game time). Then you have to assume all games go to that stage, which then eats up 1 extra minute of time (since people will just wait for the timer to tech 6:00:00 befre playing, regardless of how quick SD'ing is), which raises the time by 1 hour to 7 hours.

 

[Omegaphoenix]

It's not that time consuming, if you have a few spare controllers lying around it takes like a max of about 30 seconds to SD the three players. They showed it in a video a while back.

Okay, so, what are the odds every single set up has three extra controllers lying around? Unlikely. So every set without the spares needs to find random controllers, which takes time. Then, presuming you find the sets, that's three players you are grabbing from whatever they were doing, just to play on a alternate version of an already good stage. It is a hassle. Just play regular PS2 or go play PM.

 

[Ulevo]

So, I wanted to get some discussion going on Miiverse. It is pretty obvious that the stage in and of itself is fine. It is essentially a Battlefield clone with slightly different ledge slopes, much in the same way that Final Destination and Omega stages are semi-clones.

This presents an interesting dilemma because it means that if it is legal, there are effectively two Battlefields, presuming that the blastzones are the same or nearly the same. This is a problem in the banning phase because it means that banning Battlefield away will not work when they can resort to Miiverse or vice versa.

My feeling is that, assuming Miiverse turns out to be a clone of Battlefield, it is treated like Omega stages in the ruleset and a ban on Battlefield counts as a ban on Miiverse. What are peoples thoughts?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

So, I wanted to get some discussion going on Miiverse. It is pretty obvious that the stage in and of itself is fine. It is essentially a Battlefield clone with slightly different ledge slopes, much in the same way that Final Destination and Omega stages are semi-clones.

This presents an interesting dilemma because it means that if it is legal, there are effectively two Battlefields, presuming that the blastzones are the same or nearly the same. This is a problem in the banning phase because it means that banning Battlefield away will not work when they can resort to Miiverse or vice versa.

My feeling is that, assuming Miiverse turns out to be a clone of Battlefield, it is treated like Omega stages in the ruleset and a ban on Battlefield counts as a ban on Miiverse. What are peoples thoughts?

For the record, I plan to get a thread up on Miiverse ASAP after I DL the update. (Or buy it if it comes with Lucas.)

If it's functionally identical to Battlefield then I'd just as soon lump them together a la FD/Omegas. "Miiverse Clause: A player who counterpicks to Battlefield may, at their discretion, select the Miiverse stage instead. Battlefield and Miiverse shall count as one stage for the purposes of striking and banning." I mean, even from screenshots it's obvious that the underside of the stage is shaped slightly differently but it's still floating and I will be shocked if it makes a meaningful difference in anything beyond the most extreme fringe cases.

That said, compare this image to this and this. There's no platform above Kirby despite the screenshot being taken at the edge of the stage. The most obvious explanation is that it's the Omega form, but there's a slim possibility the platforms can move around and/or vanish. I don't actually expect this to be the case, but there's room for speculation.

tl;dr Obviously legal but probably faces the same fate as Omegas. Slim possibility of functionally different platforms.

 

[cot(θ)]

So, I wanted to get some discussion going on Miiverse. It is pretty obvious that the stage in and of itself is fine. It is essentially a Battlefield clone with slightly different ledge slopes, much in the same way that Final Destination and Omega stages are semi-clones.

This presents an interesting dilemma because it means that if it is legal, there are effectively two Battlefields, presuming that the blastzones are the same or nearly the same. This is a problem in the banning phase because it means that banning Battlefield away will not work when they can resort to Miiverse or vice versa.

My feeling is that, assuming Miiverse turns out to be a clone of Battlefield, it is treated like Omega stages in the ruleset and a ban on Battlefield counts as a ban on Miiverse. What are peoples thoughts?

Yeah, we don't need 2 Battlefields. It's always been incomprehensible to me how Melee has like 5 legal stages and 4 of them are Battlefield.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Yeah, we don't need 2 Battlefields. It's always been incomprehensible to me how Melee has like 5 legal stages and 4 of them are Battlefield.

6, actually.

Battlefield
Yoshi's Island (Small Battlefield)
Dream Land 64 (Large Battlefield)
Fountain of Dreams (Sometimes-Battlefield)
Final Destination
Pokemon Stadium

If I'm being honest, I think the Melee stage list is at least a partial contributor to the current attitudes regarding stage legality. When the favored competitive game in the franchise has so little in the way of workable stages, people start thinking that anything different is unacceptable.

 

[MajorMajora]

Yeah, we don't need 2 Battlefields. It's always been incomprehensible to me how Melee has like 5 legal stages and 4 of them are Battlefield.

In its defense, there are significant differences between them. For battlefield/Yoshi/dreamland it was a matter of size, the nature of the edges (which matters more in melee), and the presence of some additional effects (tree/randall). Fountain of dreams has wonky platform mechanics.

 

[Omegaphoenix]

In its defense, there are significant differences between them. For battlefield/Yoshi/dreamland it was a matter of size, the nature of the edges (which matters more in melee), and the presence of some additional effects (tree/randall). Fountain of dreams has wonky platform mechanics.

While I will admit each stage has subtle nuances that affect them, the overall idea of a basic 2 or 3 platform layout that stays essentially consistent is pretty much a given. FoD does move the plats, FD has none, and PS transforms, but of those only PS and FD are against Flat+ 3 Plat style and I'm pretty sure PS would be banned if there was any other stage they could CP too.

Compare those differences to Smashville BF FD, and we haven't changed much since Melee. It's sad. The Melee community is great, but they've infected the rest of the community with they're stage list rules because of their **** hand when it came to them choosing legal stages. Now, even with a whole ton of stages we're mostly content to play a lesser version of SF4 on mostly static Flat + Plat

 

[MajorMajora]

While I will admit each stage has subtle nuances that affect them, the overall idea of a basic 2 or 3 platform layout that stays essentially consistent is pretty much a given. FoD does move the plats, FD has none, and PS transforms, but of those only PS and FD are against Flat+ 3 Plat style and I'm pretty sure PS would be banned if there was any other stage they could CP too.

Compare those differences to Smashville BF FD, and we haven't changed much since Melee. It's sad. The Melee community is great, but they've infected the rest of the community with they're stage list rules because of their **** hand when it came to them choosing legal stages. Now, even with a whole ton of stages we're mostly content to play a lesser version of SF4 on mostly static Flat + Plat

Yeah I suppose. I feel like they are significant enough differences to warrant different stage slots in ss and bans, especially since the average deviation between different stages is lower in melee. Unless there are significant size/balat-zone changes in addition to the sides, I think grouping it with BF makes sense.

 

[Arcaden]

A few things:
banning Kongo on presumption alone is just stupid, I wouldn't have a problem if there was evidence. The layout of Kongo is also good for competitive as the platforms support combos.

PS2, maybe aside from the wind segment, which just encourages air play and aerial strings and combos, this stage hugely benefits both players in numerous ways
1. ground - allows for players to combo into the wall while requiring the other player to tech in order to avoid a nasty combo.
2. electric - conveyors make edgeguarding more complex and allows for all players to mix-up their strategies in order to prevail.
3. ice - everybody gets a sliding up smash. I don't see a problem here.
4. wind - refer to the introduction
While players dislike the way the stage forces them to change their playstyle, players who can adapt the best are going to hugely benefit with this stages inclusion.

miiverse should be legal.

 

[Omegaphoenix]

A few things:
banning Kongo on presumption alone is just stupid, I wouldn't have a problem if there was evidence. The layout of Kongo is also good for competitive as the platforms support combos.

PS2, maybe aside from the wind segment, which just encourages air play and aerial strings and combos, this stage hugely benefits both players in numerous ways
1. ground - allows for players to combo into the wall while requiring the other player to tech in order to avoid a nasty combo.
2. electric - conveyors make edgeguarding more complex and allows for all players to mix-up their strategies in order to prevail.
3. ice - everybody gets a sliding up smash. I don't see a problem here.
4. wind - refer to the introduction
While players dislike the way the stage forces them to change their playstyle, players who can adapt the best are going to hugely benefit with this stages inclusion.

miiverse should be legal.

I agree with everything you say, except Miiverse. Miiverse will be legal, but the question is whether Miiverse is different enough from BF to be a seperate stage or the omega BF equivalent.

Personally, I hope a huge Ridley comes out of Miiverse formed from the desperate posts of ridley fanboys begging for him in Smash.

 

[MajorMajora]

I agree with everything you say, except Miiverse. Miiverse will be legal, but the question is whether Miiverse is different enough from BF to be a seperate stage or the omega BF equivalent.

Personally, I hope a huge Ridley comes out of Miiverse formed from the desperate posts of ridley fanboys begging for him in Smash.

Well it'd a lot easier to handle it then.

Unless the Ridley was predictable as far as hazards go. Then me and a number of other stage liberalists on these forums would begin white-knighting it for the rest of the game's competitive life-span.

 

[Omegaphoenix]

Well it'd a lot easier to handle it then.

Unless the Ridley was predictable as far as hazards go. Then me and a number of other stage liberalists on these forums would begin white-knighting it for the rest of the game's competitive life-span.

Okay fine. It's only Ridley 35% of the time. 20% is King K Rool, 30% is Dixie Kong, 10% is Shantae, and the last 5% is Goku. All made from Miiverse posts begging for the characters, and their entire bodies are all one hit kill hitboxes. Now nowhere will ever run miiverse ever!

Except West Coast. Stage Liberals, god how I wish you could come over to my coast. I wanna play more than Smashville damn it.

 

[warriorman222]

So, I decided to ignore Ulevo's warnings and made an OGA thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/orbital-gate-assault-is-it-that-bad.404935/

Yeah.. that poll... It started off very good for Yes, then just fell apart over the course of one night. I wanted to debunk the 2 biggest problems I had heard and ask for others to know the real reason why(as those 2 problems were from one guy), only to see most of the trouble coming form the fact that nobody likes or wants to learn the stage. So yeah. I'd normally put it on the level of Kalos, but seeing the reaction to not only the stage, but the thread, it's probably the least likely superliberal stage ever to become legal based on the mentality around it.

As of 2:30PM MT, it has a 34.8% Yes/No ratio. Yeah, might wanna prepare that Red hex color...

 

[MajorMajora]

So, I decided to ignore Ulevo's warnings and made an OGA thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/orbital-gate-assault-is-it-that-bad.404935/

Yeah.. that poll... It started off very good for Yes, then just fell apart over the course of one night. I wanted to debunk the 2 biggest problems I had heard and ask for others to know the real reason why(as those 2 problems were from one guy), only to see most of the trouble coming form the fact that nobody likes or wants to learn the stage. So yeah. I'd normally put it on the level of Kalos, but seeing the reaction to not only the stage, but the thread, it's probably the least likely superliberal stage ever to become legal based on the mentality around it.

As of 2:30PM MT, it has a 34.8% Yes/No ratio. Yeah, might wanna prepare that Red hex color...

Yeah, I think it's dumb that just because a lot of people don't want to learn it they don'tt have to. Does the same logic apply to Rosalina and Luma? Because if we don't have to learn match ups against her that'd be easier for me.

And, in general, it has more to do with bias than an actual understanding of the stage. As ParanoidDrone said, the more someone understands OGA, the more likely they are to agree to its legality.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Yeah, I think it's dumb that just because a lot of people don't want to learn it they don'tt have to. Does the same logic apply to Rosalina and Luma? Because if we don't have to learn match ups against her that'd be easier for me.

And, in general, it has more to do with bias than an actual understanding of the stage. As ParanoidDrone said, the more someone understands OGA, the more likely they are to agree to its legality.

More specifically, I think I said that people who spend time messing around on stages (like I did) will almost inevitably gain a greater understanding of how they work, which in turn makes them more accepting of their use due to not having to worry about what the stage will do in the first place. This operating under the assumption that a lot of the should-be-legal-but-aren't stages are only such because people simply haven't had a reason to practice on them. Because some stages like Pyrosphere are sort of beyond redemption.

 

[Infinite901]

Except West Coast. Stage Liberals, god how I wish you could come over to my coast. I wanna play more than Smashville damn it.

You and me both. (also I find it a bit ironic that East is now the conservative coast when it was where they used to use items in Melee.)

As for my 2 cents on stages:

Spoiler

FD(Omegas on CP)
Battlefield(Miiverse on CP)
Smashville
Town and City
Lylat Cruise
Duck Hunt
Halberd
Delfino Plaza
Castle Siege
Wuhu Island
Skyloft
Pokemon Stadium 2
Kongo Jungle 64

But hey, that's just my 2 cents. And I'll admit, those last 4 stages are probably the best stages for my main, however a lot of MU simulations I checked seemed to come to quite even stages, so I don't think the list is really all that biased. So don't call me out on bias, I recognize that my list probably has some. This just seems like the best cutoff while keeping 4x+1.

 

[MajorMajora]

You and me both. (also I find it a bit ironic that East is now the conservative coast when it was where they used to use items in Melee.)

As for my 2 cents on stages:

Spoiler

FD(Omegas on CP)
Battlefield(Miiverse on CP)
Smashville
Town and City
Lylat Cruise
Duck Hunt
Halberd
Delfino Plaza
Castle Siege
Wuhu Island
Skyloft
Pokemon Stadium 2
Kongo Jungle 64

But hey, that's just my 2 cents. And I'll admit, those last 4 stages are probably the best stages for my main, however a lot of MU simulations I checked seemed to come to quite even stages, so I don't think the list is really all that biased. So don't call me out on bias, I recognize that my list probably has some. This just seems like the best cutoff while keeping 4x+1.

Yeah that's the standard 13 FLSS stage liberal platform. I'm thinking of making a video to promote it. I'm pretty sure most stage liberals can agree to that.

 

[clydeaker]

One thing I don't get is why Big Battlefield is banned because it's too big and campy, but Windy Hill Zone is debatably legal for singles. That stage had walk on the wind mill, the edges have springs next to them. It more than twice as big a big battlefield it easily promotes camping , the ground, and gravity is curved messing with the physics, and there's grass increasing traction.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

One thing I don't get is why Big Battlefield is banned because it's too big and campy, but Windy Hill Zone is debatably legal for singles. That stage had walk on the wind mill, the edges have springs next to them. It more than twice as big a big battlefield it easily promotes camping , the ground, and gravity is curved messing with the physics, and there's grass increasing traction.

I think it's because WHZ's size is mostly horizontal (it's long but not tall) while Big Battlefield is more of a square (it's long and tall, although not as long as WHZ). I can see the latter being easier to camp since it opens up more chances to use high platforms as an escape.

This is all theory and guesswork, mind you.

EDIT: Following today's Direct I want to confirm that I'll be purchasing the DLC for Dream Land and Ryu/Suzaku Castle and making threads on them + Miiverse. With any luck I should have the first one up by tonight.

 

[Infinite901]

So, is Peach's Castle 64 gonna be legal?

 

[clydeaker]

So, is Peach's Castle 64 gonna be legal?

In Smash 64 Peach's Castle was generally considered a counter pick, but there weren't many stages to legalize in that game anyways so it might not. The only grab able ledges are on the moving platform meaning if its on the other side of the stage your screwed. In Project M it was banned, but there were a lot more legal friendly stages to choose from. Project M also has higher standards for competitive stages especially sense they can fix up, add in, and make their own stages for competitive play. Who knows, maybe it will maybe it won't be legal. we'll just have to wait and see when it comes out. I would say its legal status is suspect.

As regards to the other DLC stages

Dream Land - I think we can all agree this stage is banned legal.

Hyrule Castle 64 - This stage is boarder line legal. In Smash 64 it was legal for a wile. Not until recently was it universally banned due to circle camping, being overly large, and the tornados disrupt gameplay (although it helped prevent camping). In project M it's banned. I think it's under suspect.

Suzaku Castle - permanent walk-off on the right side of the stage. Edge Camping, Circle camping on the left platforms. The right walk-off promotes projectile camping (I'm looking at you laser spamming Fox mains). The center of the stage is unclear due to uneven sides. Right walk-off promotes easy zero kills. I think we can all agree in regards to this stages legality, this stage is legal banned... Well, suspect until people stop wanting to legalize stupid walk-off stages. They need to look at the [theoretical] data and accept the facts, walk-offs are banned because they were banned in melee and brawl.

 

[[Deuce]]

Suzaku Castle - permanent walk-off on the right side of the stage. Edge Camping, Circle camping on the left platforms. The right walk-off promotes projectile camping (I'm looking at you laser spamming Fox mains). The center of the stage is unclear due to uneven sides. Right walk-off promotes easy zero kills. I think we can all agree in regards to this stages legality, this stage is legal banned... Well, suspect until people stop wanting to legalize stupid walk-off stages. They need to look at the [theoretical] data and accept the facts, walk-offs are banned because they were banned in melee and brawl.

I'm all for it being banned, but some of these reasons are iffy.

Circle camping: How?? those platforms are tiny- more like what AA said, the bigger issue is the strong positioning the bottom left platform gives.

Center of stage unclear: So? That makes the stage more unique which is good.

Walk-offs were banned in melee and brawl: they're their own separate games with separate mechanics. This kind of reasoning is simply a closed mindset.

 

[MajorMajora]

I'm all for it being banned, but some of these reasons are iffy.

Circle camping: How?? those platforms are tiny- more like what AA said, the bigger issue is the strong positioning the bottom left platform gives.

Center of stage unclear: So? That makes the stage more unique which is good.

Walk-offs were banned in melee and brawl: they're their own separate games with separate mechanics. This kind of reasoning is simply a closed mindset.

I think he was being sarcastic about the walkoffs. There's an ongoing debate on whether or not walk-offs should be reconsidered for competitive viability that he took part in, and I think he was on the side of them being reconsidered. He's being satirical, I believe. Not sure about the other points. I'm not the biggest fan of Suzaku, but eh there are worse stages. Walk off definitely makes it suspect at best.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I think he was being sarcastic about the walkoffs. There's an ongoing debate on whether or not walk-offs should be reconsidered for competitive viability that he took part in, and I think he was on the side of them being reconsidered. He's being satirical, I believe. Not sure about the other points. I'm not the biggest fan of Suzaku, but eh there are worse stages. Walk off definitely makes it suspect at best.

It's also completely static, which is a point in its favor if nothing else.

Let's talk Dream Land for a bit. My thread on it is here if anyone wants to take a look but the tl;dr is that Dream Land is no longer big. In fact the blast zones are smaller than Battlefield. (By only 1-2% horizontally and 4% vertically, but still.) And it looks like the actual standing room has also been normalized to Battlefield size, or thereabouts.

Also Miiverse appears to be functionally identical to Battlefield in all respects except the shape of the under-ledge area.

 

[clydeaker]

W

I'm all for it being banned, but some of these reasons are iffy.

Circle camping: How?? those platforms are tiny- more like what AA said, the bigger issue is the strong positioning the bottom left platform gives.

Center of stage unclear: So? That makes the stage more unique which is good.

Walk-offs were banned in melee and brawl: they're their own separate games with separate mechanics. This kind of reasoning is simply a closed mindset.

Haha! I was making a joke. When I got on the topic of walk-offs I sarcastically tried to give as many points for why it should be banned. Sorry for the confusion. As for the other stages I was being serious except for the crossed out words.

 

[MajorMajora]

It's also completely static, which is a point in its favor if nothing else.

Let's talk Dream Land for a bit. My thread on it is here if anyone wants to take a look but the tl;dr is that Dream Land is no longer big. In fact the blast zones are smaller than Battlefield. (By only 1-2% horizontally and 4% vertically, but still.) And it looks like the actual standing room has also been normalized to Battlefield size, or thereabouts.

Also Miiverse appears to be functionally identical to Battlefield in all respects except the shape of the under-ledge area.

What I want to know is how dreamland will effect the sort of "Liberal political platform" there is for stages. I mean, the aim is for there to be a 5 stage starter or FLSS with the current legal stages that are generally accepted+PS2, sky loft, wuhu, and kongo. But I'd say Dreamland is good enough to be in there, and if we add that to the current 13 we're shooting for, we get a pretty nasty SS umber. I suppose not many people are up for FLSS, so it's a bit of a moot point, but it still makes me wonder.