Meta Stage Legality Discussion Thread:

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Castle Siege is 100% predictable so there's no reason to be surprised by the transitions.
If WFT killed herself during the transition that's no different than MK side-bing offstage and dying.

Welp... let's add Castle Siege to the list of stages CPUs fail at traversing. (The other two being Town & City, and Custom stages in general)

To keep on topic...

Windy Hill Zone: This stage may or may not be legal. This stage is weird because while you can have a match without touching the springs, or windmill, if they come into play they can do some weird things. The windmill can set up a very cheap kill over the top blast line, however, the top blast line is pretty low, as you can easily jump off screen by using any of the higher platforms. The springs can save you, but they don't really help, as when you can hit the top of them you usually won't need them. When you do need them they send you to your death.

After further playing on the stage, I don't think it will be legal in tournament play. The springs aren't usually a problem, nor is the windmill, however the blast lines might be. As I said before you can jump off screen with ease, but throws that don't normally put opponents in danger (Meaning you can't KO with them) can kill them. Pit's forward throw can KO Mario at 100% on both sides of the stage without using the windmill. This combined with the gravity gimmick, allows for weird things to happen. (Such as Pit's Up Areal KOing opponents off the sides of the stage. I've done it before.) If weak moves like that can KO at percents that are a bit low, then I think characters like Ganondorf will be able to KO at ridiculously low percentages, while being able to live longer due to their weight. So...
Would this be a counterpick for characters like that, would it be non-intrusive because everyone can KO in odd ways, or would it be banned because of the close blast lines?
(Personally I don't think it will because people are doubting Halberd because of a low ceiling if not the hazards. This stage has a low ceiling, close walls, and weird physics.)

 

[Fuerzo]

Surprised how permissive this community is compared to opinions I've gotten at my local scene. Ideal stagelist for me would be something like:

Starter:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville

Counterpick:

Lylat Cruise
Town & City
Dream Land
Omegas (cannot be picked if FD is banned)
Miiverse (cannot be picked if BF is banned)

Japanese have it right.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Surprised how permissive this community is compared to opinions I've gotten at my local scene. Ideal stagelist for me would be something like:

Starter:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville

Counterpick:

Lylat Cruise
Town & City
Dream Land
Omegas (cannot be picked if FD is banned)
Miiverse (cannot be picked if BF is banned)

Japanese have it right.

3 Starters is far from the "Right" way to handle stages

 

[Omegaphoenix]

Surprised how permissive this community is compared to opinions I've gotten at my local scene. Ideal stagelist for me would be something like:

Starter:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville

Counterpick:

Lylat Cruise
Town & City
Dream Land
Omegas (cannot be picked if FD is banned)
Miiverse (cannot be picked if BF is banned)

Japanese have it right.

Not only is three starters ridiculously restricting, it literally doesn't work right with striking, as it gives player 2 the advantage when striking, when it should be the first person who gets last pick, which works with 4X+1 stages listings. Also, the Japanese player base is notoriously conservative and probably shouldn't be seen as a perfect model, given how far away to one side they are. Also, your stage list lacks any moving stages, as well as Duck Hunt, and Kj64, among other stages. I don't think your stage list is very good, given that it is missing several very good stages, and uses 3 stage starter system

Also, this scene isn't as permissive as you think, if you live on the East Coast you'll be lucky to see T&C once in a while. The discussion thread just naturally attracts more stage liberals than conservwtives, which means we do have a small slant towards liberalism here.

 

[Fuerzo]

Uh, Kongo Jungle? On what universe is a stage with massive blastzones, circle camping potential, and a barrel cannon that turns you into a hurtbox "very good"? And yes, banning all moving stages was sort of intentional.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Having "potential" is not enough to warrant a ban. Innocent until proved guilty.


Also, why do characters good at transitioning through stages deserve to get artificially nerfed like that?

 

[Fuerzo]

Innocent until proven guilty? My attitude isn't to put on any stage that isn't too problematic, it's to have a sufficient roster of stages that you can have a functional counterpick system while avoiding situations where the stage significantly interferes with gameplay (the claw on Halberd, the absurdly low ceilings when the Delfino platform is rising up, and in general the fact that transforming stages artificially shake up the neutral (and in the case of those with walkoffs, remove the edgeguarding factor entirely). Hell, I wouldn't shed a tear if FD, Battlefield, and Smashville were the only legal stages. Ask Nintendo for more neutral stages instead of trying to pretend that Skyloft and Castle Siege are remotely suited for competitive play.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Six effective stages is not a "sufficient" roster for a counterpick system. At least not when all of them are virtually the same.

"Shaking up the neutral" is a perfectly fair stage attribute, specially considering there's a huge amount of characters that can adapt to such changes and return to that neutral state quickly and safely.

 

[ScAtt77]

So quick inquiry about a rather rarely mentioned, yet controversial stage: Sky World. What are your thoughts on this stage in tournament play? For the longest time, I could only think of one argument against it and that would the "Cave of Life" aspect prevalent on this stage; however, the destroy-able platforms make me question exactly why this stage sees no play or is even mentioned at all in competitive play.

 

[chaos11011]

I think it's because of the fact that not only does it have semi caves-of-life, but when you break them, the clouds don't have ledges. However, I guess you could make a case that, contrary to Brawl, no character strictly has a teather grab, so Skyworld can be chosen to counterpick and restrict/make recoveries more predictable as opposed to invalidating them as a whole.

 

[PUK]

Skyworld is circle camping place, with cave of life and screwing floor for most recovery. No way it could be used competitively.

 

[T4ylor]

I'm with Sangre on this one. I don't see why we need more stages than a 5 stage starter list of Smashville, Battlefield, Final Destination, Lylat Cruise, and Town & City. With how well balanced this stage list is, any more just feels like clutter and adding stages for the sake of adding them. I even find that having more just ends up serving the better characters even more because they actually have the tools to adapt and do well on the more niche stages or see a stronger buff than most to their already great kill options.

 

[ぱみゅ]

That's because we don't "add" them, we look at the whole list and remove those with negative attributes.
Some of the good characters are good at adapting, some others are not, while some of the "not-so-good" characters may actually prefer an everchanging environment to be able to compete against most.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

(the claw on Halberd, the absurdly low ceilings when the Delfino platform is rising up, and in general the fact that transforming stages artificially shake up the neutral (and in the case of those with walkoffs, remove the edgeguarding factor entirely). Hell, I wouldn't shed a tear if FD, Battlefield, and Smashville were the only legal stages. Ask Nintendo for more neutral stages instead of trying to pretend that Skyloft and Castle Siege are remotely suited for competitive play.

1. The claw on Halberd should be the least of your worries. That cannon is much more devastating, and can be used to a player's advantage. Honestly, I don't see why people hate this stage so much. (Well I know why I just don't see the problem)
2. And how long does it take the platforms to rise? Two seconds? Three? That's not enough time to take advantage of unless you were going to up smash (or something) anyway.
3. Transformations are good. It's why Pokémon Stadium was considered the most neutral stage at one point.
4. The temporary removal of the bottom blast line isn't a big deal. If it was then we wouldn't even consider Mario Circuit at all.


I heard we need either 9 or 13 stages, if that's true, then I think the stage list should be:
Battlefield (Miiverse is not counted as Battlefield because comments like "Floor Ice Cream! It gives you health!-Pit" are going to be very distracting to players.)
Final Destination
Smashville
Town & City
Dreamland 64
Duck Hunt
Delphino Plaza
Lylat Cruise
Halberd (Replaced with Mario Circuit if enough people raise a stink about it to get it banned)
Castle Siege
Kongo Jungle 64
Pokémon Stadium 2
Skyloft
(The only available Omega Stages are the ones for the legal stages mentioned above. If that stage cannot be picked, then neither can the Omega version. If Final Destination cannot be picked, then all Omegas are banned.)

Also, this scene isn't as permissive as you think, if you live on the East Coast you'll be lucky to see T&C once in a while.

Really? most of the tournaments I've seen went to Smashville, then Town & City. (Though I'm probably watching tournaments from the same area.)

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

I remember I posted here before, but I can't seem to find it. Anyways, I feel that stage lists will either be really strict (only a few stages, little to no dynamic elements), or really loose (many stages, varying dynamic elements).

My strict stage list would basically be almost the same as Sangre's list, execept I'd make Dream Land 64 as a starter (mainly as a personal preference. Doesn't matter to me if it's a starter or counter-pick in the end) and have Miiverse alongside Battlefield as a partial clone (in the end, doesn't matter if it's a starter or counter-pick). I'd also have Duck Hunt, but it might change in the future.

Starters:
Battlefield / Miiverse
Final Destination
Smashville
Dream Land 64

Counter-pick:
Lylat Cruise
Town & City
Duck Hunt (still thinking about this one)
Omegas (cannot be picked if FD is banned)

For my more lenient stage list, here's how it would go:
Starters:
Battlefield / Miiverse
Final Destination / Omegas
Smashville
Dreamland 64
Town & City
Lylat Cruise
Duck Hunt
Kongo Jungle 64
Big Battlefield (Doubles only)

Counter-pick:
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Castle Seige
Skyloft
Wuhu Island
Peach's Castle N64 (speculation based)
Hyrule Castle N64 (Doubles only, speculation based)
Windy Hill Zone (Doubles only, suspect to change)

With this list, there are a few I don't like but I feel like if certain stages aren't legal, people would look at me and say "Why isn't this stage legal when you have this stage legal?!". It's the way I feel about Skyloft / Wuhu and Delfino / Halberd. I don't like Halberd because of numerous problems it has, and Delfino's main problem is with its transitioning blastzones, but Skyloft and Wuhu are much better than those two in my eyes because (for the most part) it addresses those issues that Halberd and Delfino have. However, removing Delfino and Halberd from my list would definitely have people upset (more so since we are so used to it). In the end though, my whole lenient list is best suited for FLSS.

By the way, are people going in the FLSS direction, or the Starter/Counter-pick direction?

 

[b2jammer]

I remember I posted here before, but I can't seem to find it. Anyways, I feel that stage lists will either be really strict (only a few stages, little to no dynamic elements), or really loose (many stages, varying dynamic elements).

My strict stage list would basically be almost the same as Sangre's list, execept I'd make Dream Land 64 as a starter (mainly as a personal preference. Doesn't matter to me if it's a starter or counter-pick in the end) and have Miiverse alongside Battlefield as a partial clone (in the end, doesn't matter if it's a starter or counter-pick). I'd also have Duck Hunt, but it might change in the future.

Starters:
Battlefield / Miiverse
Final Destination
Smashville
Dream Land 64

Counter-pick:
Lylat Cruise
Town & City
Duck Hunt (still thinking about this one)
Omegas (cannot be picked if FD is banned)

For my more lenient stage list, here's how it would go:
Starters:
Battlefield / Miiverse
Final Destination / Omegas
Smashville
Dreamland 64
Town & City
Lylat Cruise
Duck Hunt
Kongo Jungle 64
Big Battlefield (Doubles only)

Counter-pick:
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Castle Seige
Skyloft
Wuhu Island
Peach's Castle N64 (speculation based)
Hyrule Castle N64 (Doubles only, speculation based)
Windy Hill Zone (Doubles only, suspect to change)

With this list, there are a few I don't like but I feel like if certain stages aren't legal, people would look at me and say "Why isn't this stage legal when you have this stage legal?!". It's the way I feel about Skyloft / Wuhu and Delfino / Halberd. I don't like Halberd because of numerous problems it has, and Delfino's main problem is with its transitioning blastzones, but Skyloft and Wuhu are much better than those two in my eyes because (for the most part) it addresses those issues that Halberd and Delfino have. However, removing Delfino and Halberd from my list would definitely have people upset (more so since we are so used to it). In the end though, my whole lenient list is best suited for FLSS.

By the way, are people going in the FLSS direction, or the Starter/Counter-pick direction?

From what I've heard, Starter/Counterpick seems more popular because FLSS takes too long, with many players just gentlemanning to a stage like Smashville anyway. I'm leaning towards Starter/Counterpick myself, but wouldn't mind a large Starter list with only 2 or 3 counterpicks.
My stage list for reference:
=Starter=
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Town & City

=Counterpick/FLSS=
Skyloft
Halberd
Castle Siege
Wuhu Island
Delfino Plaza
Duck Hunt
Kongo Jungle 64

 

[MajorMajora]

I remember I posted here before, but I can't seem to find it. Anyways, I feel that stage lists will either be really strict (only a few stages, little to no dynamic elements), or really loose (many stages, varying dynamic elements).

My strict stage list would basically be almost the same as Sangre's list, execept I'd make Dream Land 64 as a starter (mainly as a personal preference. Doesn't matter to me if it's a starter or counter-pick in the end) and have Miiverse alongside Battlefield as a partial clone (in the end, doesn't matter if it's a starter or counter-pick). I'd also have Duck Hunt, but it might change in the future.

Starters:
Battlefield / Miiverse
Final Destination
Smashville
Dream Land 64

Counter-pick:
Lylat Cruise
Town & City
Duck Hunt (still thinking about this one)
Omegas (cannot be picked if FD is banned)

For my more lenient stage list, here's how it would go:
Starters:
Battlefield / Miiverse
Final Destination / Omegas
Smashville
Dreamland 64
Town & City
Lylat Cruise
Duck Hunt
Kongo Jungle 64
Big Battlefield (Doubles only)

Counter-pick:
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Castle Seige
Skyloft
Wuhu Island
Peach's Castle N64 (speculation based)
Hyrule Castle N64 (Doubles only, speculation based)
Windy Hill Zone (Doubles only, suspect to change)

With this list, there are a few I don't like but I feel like if certain stages aren't legal, people would look at me and say "Why isn't this stage legal when you have this stage legal?!". It's the way I feel about Skyloft / Wuhu and Delfino / Halberd. I don't like Halberd because of numerous problems it has, and Delfino's main problem is with its transitioning blastzones, but Skyloft and Wuhu are much better than those two in my eyes because (for the most part) it addresses those issues that Halberd and Delfino have. However, removing Delfino and Halberd from my list would definitely have people upset (more so since we are so used to it). In the end though, my whole lenient list is best suited for FLSS.

By the way, are people going in the FLSS direction, or the Starter/Counter-pick direction?

I kind of cringed at the complete disregard for how many starters there are.

Starter lists are supposed to make it so that game 1 is as fair as possible (a misinformed reason I disagree with but a reason non the less). However, stage striking heavily favors one of the players if it doesn't have 5, 9, 13, etc. stages in it. Having 4 or 8 starters is harmful.

Anyways, I can't say how people are leaning very accurately. There are more people suggesting Starter/CP lists, but many are people who just assume they should do those since that's how it's been for a long time. I do recall there being a poll where people who were asked about the question specifically tended to be in support of FLSS, though that's just my memory.

@ b2jammer Actually it's because they think it takes longer. The amount of extra time is negligible. Especially when you compare it to the time it takes to add in custom tags. And this actually matters for gameplay.

 

[b2jammer]

@ b2jammer Actually it's because they think it takes longer. The amount of extra time is negligible. Especially when you compare it to the time it takes to add in custom tags. And this actually matters for gameplay.

True. Doesn't really change my point though.

 

[MajorMajora]

True. Doesn't really change my point though.

People gentlemen to smashville because they're dumb and ignorant. We should not write our ruleset to make things easier for dumb and ignorant players.

 

[Pyr]

People gentlemen to smashville because they're dumb and ignorant. We should not write our ruleset to make things easier for dumb and ignorant players.

Na. Most people that do it just don't care about the opening stage. Saying that people who do this are dumb and ignorant is really inappropriate and it is wrong in context.

 

[Omegaphoenix]

Na. Most people that do it just don't care about the opening stage. Saying that people who do this are dumb and ignorant is really inappropriate and it is wrong in context.

If they don't care about what stage they are playing game 1 on, they are dumb and ignorant. Take on a Sheik on Smashville game 1, and once you've lost the first game, the odds are very against you. Game 1 is the most important game bar none in our Smash Culture

 

[b2jammer]

People gentlemen to smashville because they're dumb and ignorant. We should not write our ruleset to make things easier for dumb and ignorant players.

I agree. I'm not saying I think FLSS is too long, I'm just putting it out there that others do to back up my point on why FLSS is less popular than S/C.

If they don't care about what stage they are playing game 1 on, they are dumb and ignorant. Take on a Sheik on Smashville game 1, and once you've lost the first game, the odds are very against you. Game 1 is the most important game bar none in our Smash Culture

Agreed, especially if you start to burn out in games 2 and 3 like I do.

 

[Pyr]

If they don't care about what stage they are playing game 1 on, they are dumb and ignorant. Take on a Sheik on Smashville game 1, and once you've lost the first game, the odds are very against you. Game 1 is the most important game bar none in our Smash Culture

Because Smashville is always a disadvantage if you just gentleman to it.
-_-
Remember that "context" part of my post? You're the person it was meant for.

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

I kind of cringed at the complete disregard for how many starters there are.

Starter lists are supposed to make it so that game 1 is as fair as possible (a misinformed reason I disagree with but a reason non the less). However, stage striking heavily favors one of the players if it doesn't have 5, 9, 13, etc. stages in it. Having 4 or 8 starters is harmful.

Anyways, I can't say how people are leaning very accurately. There are more people suggesting Starter/CP lists, but many are people who just assume they should do those since that's how it's been for a long time. I do recall there being a poll where people who were asked about the question specifically tended to be in support of FLSS, though that's just my memory.

Thank you for telling me that. I wrote that list long ago and I had just copied-pasted from a file without looking over it before I posted it (I was being lazy at the time, I'm very sorry). Anyways, by moving some starters and counter-picks around (plus removing and adding some), here's how I put it:

Strict list:

5 Starters
Battlefield / Miiverse
Final Destination
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Dream Land 64

Counter-pick
Town & City
Duck Hunt
Omegas (cannot be picked if FD is banned)

Lenient list (keep in mind, it's VERY lenient, even by my standards):

Spoiler

9 Starters
Battlefield / Miiverse
Final Destination / Omegas
Smashville
Dreamland 64
Town & City
Lylat Cruise
Duck Hunt
Kongo Jungle 64
Peach's Castle N64 (speculation based, suspect to change)

Counter-pick
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Castle Seige
Skyloft
Wuhu Island
Big Battlefield (Doubles only)
Omegas (Doubles only, 8-Player version)
Windy Hill Zone (Doubles only, suspect to change)
Pyrosphere (Doubles only, 8-Player version)
Norfair (Doubles only, 8-Player version)
Pokemon Stadium 2 (Doubles only, 8-Player version)
Hyrule Castle N64 (Doubles only, speculation based, suspect to change)

The lenient list is overwhelming with how many stages there are, especially for doubles, but it's designed to be stage inclusive. Although both lists are not necessarily my ideal lists (no one ever gets their ideal stage list to be a reality), I needed to be fair in what I chose, even if there are stages that a majority like when I don't. In the end I would dial it down with how many stages there are to match my personal stage list more closely.

Long list rant over. I'm sorry if it's not completely on topic since it doesn't really focus on the legality of these stages, but I just wanted to get that out there.

 

[Illuminose]

I'd sooner put Town & City as a starter than Lylat Cruise. The main reason for this is that it's another flatter stage. We already have Battlefield and DL64; adding another heavily platform-based stage skews the starter list's bias toward platform-based stages. The other reason is less logical but still relevant. No one really WANTS to play on Lylat Cruise. I mean, a very small minority does, but what happens with that stage if it's a starter is that it becomes a burden for one player to ban. It's a very commonly disliked stage, even among top level players. The effect of the tilting stage on gameplay is just uncomfortable and awkward. It's not a lack of stage knowledge because what the stage does is blatantly obvious. People just don't like it, and I don't really like the idea of having a stage that will so often be a burden on one player to ban. Otherwise, the stricter stage list is exactly what I want.

I also...don't really see the point of Miiverse? I really don't. There's obviously nothing wrong with it, but we have Battlefield. Putting it on the starter list as up to player discretion is awkward and not really accurate because the ledges have a pretty massive effect. I'd rather see Miiverse relegated to a counterpick that can be gentleman'd too, similar to Omegas.

 

[ぱみゅ]

There are many things fundamentally wrong in that post I don't even know where to start.

• >implying Starters
• Giving preference to "flatter" stages even though that is a clear indicative of character attributes to boost.
• Lylat is not *that* platform heavy. Its purpose is to disrupt horizontal strategies. Both platforms and tilting help with that.
• Characters/People comfortable with vertical spacing are comfortable in Lylat.
• If there is a burden on those who ban it or not, neither player feels comfortable, and more importantly, none gets an advantage there, it means the system WORKS.
• Unless you make a poll, it's impossible to tell if people really don't like it. Not even the number of bans it gets help with this.
• You just said YOU want a stricter stagelist. That statement alone makes your whole post AN OPINION, and all of it should be treated as such (so disregard those comments of "no one wants to play on LC").
  
  
  Now, I'd treat Miiverse exactly as I'd treat Omegas.

 

[MajorMajora]

That's what I don't get about starter lists. I mean, we have a list dedicated to being the fairest stages for game 1, but what do we fill it with? The stages that, based on match up data, have the most even across the board results? No, we base it on how few dynamic elements the stage have.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

I hate to throw another monkey wrench into the proceedings, but after reading ParanoidDrone's analysis of the stage, I'm starting to wonder about Wily Castle as a counterpick.

Starts out as essentially an omega stage, platforms spawn on the outer edges providing escape but not enough opportunity for camping, and pac-man's mutant cousin doesn't seem to actually be able to kill, possibly being a better stage hazard than the claw on halberd

Part of me just really wants a boss stage in tournaments for the lulz and we know pyrosphere's never gonna happen (still great for casual matches though), but like I said, this boss seems to be the least op.

Thoughts?

 

[MajorMajora]

I hate to throw another monkey wrench into the proceedings, but after reading ParanoidDrone's analysis of the stage, I'm starting to wonder about Wily Castle as a counterpick.

Starts out as essentially an omega stage, platforms spawn on the outer edges providing escape but not enough opportunity for camping, and pac-man's mutant cousin doesn't seem to actually be able to kill, possibly being a better stage hazard than the claw on halberd

Part of me just really wants a boss stage in tournaments for the lulz and we know pyrosphere's never gonna happen (still great for casual matches though), but like I said, this boss seems to be the least op.

Thoughts?

I don't think it's horrible. It's disruptive but I don't think that's necessarily a problem. If it has a problem it's that there's a random element in that you don't know exactly where he'll land until he does, or how exactly he'll attack.

I certainly think there are worse stages, and the stage is certainly a test of skill (I like to play on there a lot), but I'm not expecting anything.

About making it a counterpick read my previous post.

 

[Geno9999]

I hate to throw another monkey wrench into the proceedings, but after reading ParanoidDrone's analysis of the stage, I'm starting to wonder about Wily Castle as a counterpick.

Starts out as essentially an omega stage, platforms spawn on the outer edges providing escape but not enough opportunity for camping, and pac-man's mutant cousin doesn't seem to actually be able to kill, possibly being a better stage hazard than the claw on halberd

Part of me just really wants a boss stage in tournaments for the lulz and we know pyrosphere's never gonna happen (still great for casual matches though), but like I said, this boss seems to be the least op.

Thoughts?

My problem with the Yellow Devil isn't that it can kill, it's that it spawns so often, even after you've killed it. That and it just takes over the entire center of the stage, both from its laser blasts and movement. If it was just simply the random moving platforms, this would be a shoo-in for counterpick in my opinion.

 

[Eureka]

So, what of Peach's Castle 64 and Hyrule Castle 64? I think we can all agree that Hyrule Castle is not going to work competitively, what with the tornado's and potential caves of life off of the greenhouse. However, I think Peach's Castle might work as a counterpick. The layout of the stage itself is fine, the question is if the moving platforms and bumper are a problem. Personally I don't believe so, as all of the moving parts of the stage are predicable and can be effectively utilized by both sides. Although, the ceiling is pretty low, so that could be a problem.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Fun fact: the wedge things on Peach's Castle move. I don't recall them doing this in the 64 version.

I haven't done any testing on whether or not you're likely to hit it (and get a tech opportunity) from random hits, that's just more work than I feel up to doing.

Peach's Castle thread
Hyrule Castle thread

 

[Jearbear357]

We should definitely try out peach's castle and see how it goes. I honestly find it more competitively viable than delfino.

 

[Zage]

If Peach's castle and Hyrule Castle become legalized before Wuhu, I'll lose all hope.

 

[Ghostbone]

If Peach's castle and Hyrule Castle become legalized before Wuhu, I'll lose all hope.

Don't worry, all 3 will never be legal at any regional/national.

 

[Nelkoy]

Don't worry, all 3 will never be legal at any regional/national.

Wuhu was legal for a while in Spain. Luckely our 'oficial' ruleset now is:

Starters:

• Final Destination / Omega
• Battlefield
• Smashville
• Town & City
• Lylat Cruise

Counterpicks:

• Duck Hunt
• Dreamland 64

 

[ぱみゅ]

That list actually looks unfortunate.

 

[Sandfall]

Fun fact: the wedge things on Peach's Castle move. I don't recall them doing this in the 64 version.

They move in 64 as well. It's subtle, so I never really noticed it until someone pointed it out.

 

[Spark31]

Time upon time again I see people using arguments that work for characters on stages in stage legality threads. The problem is, not everyone thinks they ARE comparable. I think that means we as a smash community should formally define here whether characters and stages are comparable in stage legality threads. That way we don't have any confusion in the matter.

 

[MajorMajora]

Man, I was playing on Hyrule Castle, and it's like... a really good stage. Like, super fun and exciting to play on. It has a wall and a short ceiling but not enough to be harmful, just enough to play around with, and the platforms are in interesting places.

I'd love it as a stage, but... those tornadoes, man. They'd be fine if they couldn't surprise you, and for all intents and purposes they rarely do, but they have the potential to and that makes doubt its chances.

Peach's castle seems fine.