~Stage Discussion~ Stage 8: Castle Seige

[Black_Heretic]

Let's do Lylat next

 

[CELTiiC]

Yeah, I'll agree on Lylat

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

First to speak usually seems to get there way right Syx xD

 

[Black_Heretic]

I just offer good Snake stages and everybody instantly agrees

=]

 

[Darkshadow7827]

Agree on lylat also.

 

[CELTiiC]

I just offer good Snake stages and everybody instantly agrees

=]

I'm being honest when I say this but I was going to suggest Lylat when I read the title because I need to learn how to play on it lol.

 

[Black_Heretic]

=]

well, my motive behind offering the stages I do is trying to help people who may have trouble on that stage

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

If we do use Lylat Cruise than I will have to find SuSa to give me that image that shows Snake's range of influence xD

 

[Zajice]

I can go for Lylat, though I won't be much help because nobody ever goes here when I'm playing for some reason... Nobody seems to like Lylat.

 

[napZzz]

I think we should discuss brinstar.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

After about 24 hours I assigned this more people think Lylat, so we will go with that. Brinstar I'll keep in mind about for next week.

 

[SuSa]

When I get home I'll make a picture showing accurate ranges for Snake. lol

I love camping on this stage. You can literally control 2/3rds of it and the 1/3rd you can't control - you have influence with your grenades.

Basically, this is a good stage to camp but it seems worse for utilt for me. Ftilt and jab can KO. Also I think the slants may allow us to buffer a jab if the slant makes the opponent higher. This needs testing.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Lylat Cruise is a great stage for Snake. It has the potiential to ruin a lot of other peoples recovery due to the edge of the stage. It's incredibly small, so there for it will be very hard for someone to pinpoint the edge a lot of the time. This makes certain things harder to accomplish such as Ganon's SideB stalling or Falco's SideB recovery. Others that get affected by this are Fox, Zelda, Wolf for their UpB recovery. Overall it just has the potiential for more human error on your opponents part. It messes us up in C4 recovery in that it's harder to tech as you pretty much have only one of two places to go: high or under the stage and tech.

I would use this stage as a CP against spacies. Falco, I feel obtains the worst problem from this stage compared to Fox or Wolf. Falco's laser game is nerfed due to tilting; his CG has the possibility to be messed up due to tilting of the stage; and his side B recovery or method of mobility is also nerfed in that he would take more landing lag during the use of it compared to flat stages.

Small tid bit of information. There is a way to abuse the tilting of the stage for Snake in 2 ways. One you can abuse it by shooting grenades off of it, or you can abuse the effect that Fast Fallen Aerials have upon landing on slants. If you are on a platform when the stage is tilting you can try to fall through the stage and FF an Uair. When you do this when it is slanting Snake will hit people with the Uair, but when you land on the ground Snake will slide down the slant a ways spacing you from your opponent while you are in the landing lag of the Uair. It's a useful tactic to use that surprises a lot of people as they do not expect Snake to attack them through the platform. And the tactic is less punishable because of the spacing you get.

Also I think the slants may allow us to buffer a jab if the slant makes the opponent higher. This needs testing.

I assume your referring to the Tech Chasing stuff?

 

[Darkshadow7827]

A nice neutral stage that can really mess with spacies. This is a fairly good stage to bring spacies - you just have to hope they mess up the horiztonal recovery. The three platforms offer great stage control. C4 and mines do well to help you camp and set up traps and throws to mines. This combined with nades do wonders for camping. Horizontal blast zones are closer than the vertical blast zone. Like crystal said, C4 teching is harder. The tilting stage is definitely to your advantage. Along with messing up recoveries, it can trick the unexperienced player when you bounce your nades at an angle. It's also somewhat unexpected. Tilting stage messes up chaingrabs, projectiles, and recoveries. If it weren't for the tilting, this stage would just be battlefield x1.5. Great stage.

I like this stage. I usually don't see matches played on it though. I don't know about anyone else, but I think the nades, C4, and mine somewhat blend into the stage and background. When recovering high, if you drop a C4, it's hard to tell where it lands until you actually see it on the ground. The nades kind of blend in due to all the graphics in the background. It kind of messes with your vision.

 

[Jdawg26]

Another quick note to add: C4 packets hit underneath the stage here, which results in a stage spike. Great for people who try to fly under the stage.

Also, when the ship is at an angle and you throw a nade at the ground, does the grenade fly in an arc? I haven't really tested it...

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

A whole week and only a few posts on the subject. I know more people can contribute than this. I'll extend this one for another week *writes up PS1 summary*

 

[SuSa]

Might as well write the Lylat summary and move onto the next stage....

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Agreed <_<

Also, where is that image you said you had for lylat? I cannot find it anywhere.

Both lylat and pkmn will be up tomorrow. Wanted to do it earlier this week, but I've been busy; trip and friend staying over.

Until then, we need another stage pick. Suggestions? I'd rather work on CP type stages as everyone pretty much knows how to fight on Neutrals, but less on CPs.

 

[Underload]

I say we do Delfino next if it hasn't already been done.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Lylat updated and we are doing Delfino.

 

[SuSa]

Camp during transitions.

Beach:
This one can be hard. I say stick in the middle, keep a mine to one side if you can and a c4 to the other. Just guard the center. If the opponent is in the water, you can get a spike. (Center is safest, everywhere else is a relatively bad spot for Snake in my experiences)

Blocks:
This transition has (4?) blocks sticking out from the sea. Ever heard of a Snake planking? Well that's what I do here. I keep a c4 nearby, and attempt to plank with uair/bair/grenades. I don't do this against characters with spikes. If I'm hit off, the worst that happens is I fall into water. =] where if they follow you, fair finally has a use.

Rooftop of Star thingie:
Best way for me to describe this is:

not sure if you can grab this ledge>_____------------_______<can't grab this ledge

I normally stick to the left, but pick a side and camp.

Center Founta:
--------\___________/--------------
^ Looks sort of like that

I actually jump around with nades and c4 and hope for the best XD I hate this transition.....

The dining area.
______----*umbrellax3*------------| < walkoff

Against everyone but D3, I try to stick underneath the umbrellas. They provide some sort of protection from aerial approaches. Once again, it's all about camping. Be careful of the walk off edge on either side. Also the wall here you can be infinited on. Be careful

I can't think of the others right now.....

"mid" transitions:

The one thats more like BF:
I camp on the platforms. Just drop c4 and nades like crazy and jump from platform to platform. Just be smart. I actually do this for all "mid" transitions............

A note:
The floor in "mid" transitions is able to be hit through and you can come up from underneath it. THIS IS WHY I CAMP ON THE PLATFORMS. Many opponents (MK) drop from the ledge and try to hit you from below. Characters with disjointed spikes (Marth) or people with good timing with their spikes can spike you through the floor. So try to grab a ledge when recovering.

Overall, I feel it depends how luck you are with the transitions - and how well you can camp between them.

 

[SuSa]

I stole this from the Dedede boards. I think it'd be a great thing to add:

Stage Ceiling Height

(highest to lowest, from bottom platform)
(Amount of damage required for grounded Mario to be KO'd by an undiminished, fully charged Mario up-smash. Less damage needed = lower ceiling. Damages/heights are listed for major platforms as well on some stages, in ascending order. Some stages that were difficult (like Delfino) were not closely examined, and some stages no one cares about were skipped entirely.)

Jungle Japes: 100/97/93 <---bad stage for D3 IMO, sinks in water, water helps foes recovery, and can't kill with up tilt here, nor edge guard
Pirate Ship: 85
Havenbow: 85
Pictochat: 84
Pokemon Stadium 2: 83/75
Battlefield: 82/75/68
FD: 82
Delfino: 82
Norfair: 82/74/67
Yoshi's Island: 82/75
Lylat Cruise: 82/74
Castle Siege: 82-88-81
Smashville: 82/74
Frigate: 81-77
Brinstar: 81/74/68
Halberd: 77/75/68-73/65 <-- awesome stage for dedede
Rainbow Ride: 75
Corneria: 74/70/57

*Credit goes to Thinkman

 

[S.K.I.D]

I don't like this level for Snake. You can only legitamintly fight during the main flying part. Once the transitions come in, i find my self camping like a beast. many characters can infinit on you at all the corners, and the walkoff makes DDD own you and falco can do good too. Also the walkoff's make for easy KO's, either for or against you. I find that i camp during the ones like with the sun star in the middle and the rooftop one. Usually no damdage is delt during this part. The pure walkoff ones i stick the middle and try to puch them to the sides.

During the one with the 3 platforms, i go for spikes, thats about it. There's not much i see you can do here with snake.

During the 2 beach ones, i just play normally and go for spikes if they hit the water

 

[etecoon]

Once the transitions come in, i find my self camping like a beast

it works even better if you just start the game doing this instead of transitioning to it when you can't play "legitimately" anymore <_<

DDD is the only character I wouldn't want here/might ban this against, toss up between that and castle siege

 

[SuSa]

I had to face a D3 here, I forgot to ban it.

He almost got the walkoff CG, but tripped. ^^;

Camping during the transitions between the 'main' parts is great however.

Oh, and keep a grenade near you 24/7. At least 1 second into being cooked. You seriously do not want to get grabbed here... ever....several spots to infinite you - along with several walkoffs.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Alright, I got Delfino added. Hope you all find the read enjoyable. It's a long one. xD

Anyway, what should be the next stage to discuss? I'd like to avoid Neutrals, everyone knows how to fight on them.

 

[Zajice]

Have we done Frigate Orpheon yet? I seem to end up there a lot for some reason.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

We will be doing Brinstar. There was general interest about it earlier.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

FYI, Snake ***** on Rainbow. There are very few Snakes that know how to play on it, however. The only two I know of off hand are myself and Hunger (although he doesn't really play Snake anymore). I've beaten several top-level MKs there as my own counterpick against them.

 

[SuSa]

@Samurai
The thing is that some characters simply do BETTER then Snake on the stage... but I do agree with you, and I counterpick G&W's to RC.

Zamus just... :/ no

Brinstar:
It has one of the lowest ceilings in the game (I read my chart wrong vs Hall. ^^; thought it was the largest.... WOOPSIES) and it provides 2 sides that are great for camping at. It can screw with chaingrabs a bit and lava saves you from spikes. All around it's a great stage I feel.

 

[Jupz]

The side boundaries are also really close, so you can kill relatively early with Bair or Ftilt here if you're at the side of a stage.

 

[napZzz]

brinstar is so small though and its easy to get close combat ***** if you aren't careful

but overall it works into his benefit and nets him some gay early percent kills and such and once the lava is up snake can abuse platforms to his benefit by keeping explosives on there, abusing his large hitboxes and dthrow, etc.

 

[Zajice]

I don't know everything you can do on those funky things on the lowest platform, but I know d-throw is a lot easier to tech chase. Since either roll basically leaves them in the same spot, so get-up attacks are the only thing you need to watch for.

Snake can kill off the top really easy, and even the sides since they're much closer than other stages.

Lava/acid stuff stops cypher grabs. Pick this stage against people who are spike happy (like Falco). The lava will save you. Unless it's Ganon's side-b, in which case, you get spiked through the lava and he gets to live. Not fun.

And what Nappy said. When the lava is up just stick explosives all over the platforms. It's the only place they can go, and it puts a lot of pressure on them. And getting them on platforms makes up tilt kill even earlier.

Explosives are practically invisible too, which is always a plus.


Best Snake stage evar. Snake belongs in Metroid.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Snake can be win on this stage, but so can many others. I believe it this was a stage that you want to avoid bringing MK/Marth/DK/Wario here.

Probably anyone with great zoning in CQC you want to avoid bringing here. (But I'm making an assumption)

 

[SuSa]

Those 4 you listed seem about right.

Same with Jiggs and the like.

 

[Grandiazero]

yeah. those are good stages. snake will have a huge advantage on delfino plaza because if snake connects a dare spike on an oponent and they go into the water, its going to take them a while 2 get back up. then snake spikes them and they get ko'd without drowning. if snake was in port town aero dive and you detect the machine come by, just send them into the track and the cars sends them flying. but you may never know where the cars might show up. it's random luck for anyone.

 

[Grandiazero]

stages i use when i am snake:
1) shadow moses
2) battle field
3) final destination
4) port town aero dive
5) delfino plaza
6) pirate ship
7) smashville

 

[Grandiazero]

Halberd is awesome sauce. If you face a MK and he doesn't strike it this is a sure thing. Putting C4 on the side of Halberd and exploding it is awesome fun too. Not PRACTICAL but fun. Can Snake Uptilt and catch people recovering up from under the thing platform on the launch pad? C4 works I know that much.

yeah thats true, c4's will work on halberd. if MK keeps usin his up special too much snake will know it coming later and hit MK with the c4 or uptilts. the halberd will help snake win his matches more. shadow moses is a good stage too. it make snake the cat and mk a mouse if snake builds up mk %'s and get that upltilt, bye bye mk. the only way 4 mk 2 win if he breaks any of the 2 pillars, but no one is not going 2 let that slide.

 

[SuSa]

Please do not triple (or even double) post.

 

[Jupz]

Also brinstar is being discussed now lol

Who should you ban this stage against? Wario?