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St.Louis Area Discussion Thread

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
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ಠ_ಠ

how do you measure success and influence?
you wanna talk dollars, kesha hella successful

ಠ_ಠ

chess != music

bobby fischer #1
The Beatles are BY FAR the best selling band of all time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists

Yes, Kesha is successful but she isn't influential. The Beatles inspired artists all over the world and changed how people listen to and perceive music. Not only that, they changed the way that bands use the recording studio to make music.



I just think their effect on music is vastly overrated. They were popular because of marketing and they were the first big band, that's their "influence". The music wasn't really influential, it was their iconic status that was influential.

In terms of musical impact, there are many more important and better musicians to give that award to.
Marketing didn't really make them popular. They played in clubs for 3 years before getting popular from Love me Do and Please Please Me. They influenced rock more than any other band, basically making it what it is today. They opened the doors for musicians in america after Kennedys death.

Quote from Scott Schinder and Andy Schwartz:

In their initial incarnation as cheerful, wisecracking moptops, the Fab Four revolutionized the sound, style, and attitude of popular music and opened rock and roll's doors to a tidal wave of British rock acts. Their initial impact would have been enough to establish the Beatles as one of their era's most influential cultural forces, but they didn't stop there. Although their initial style was a highly original, irresistibly catchy synthesis of early American rock and roll and R&B, the Beatles spent the rest of the 1960s expanding rock's stylistic frontiers, consistently staking out new musical territory on each release. The band's increasingly sophisticated experimentation encompassed a variety of genres, including folk-rock, country, psychedelia, and baroque pop, without sacrificing the effortless mass appeal of their early work.


There are just so many reasons why they were influential:

- They were one of the first groups to treat an album as a work of art in its own right instead of just a collection of singles

- They for the most part halted the practice of artists making foreign language versions of their hit singles, unofficially making english the official language of rock and roll and all its sub-genres. Klaus Meine of the scorpions said that when they started, the only way they would really make it big was to record in english which was attributed to The Beatles influence.

- They made it fashionable for men to grow their hair long(not really music lol but it sure took a long time for it to die out as a rock fasion)

- They pioneered the big world tours as we know them today.

- They were the first band to actually express their true feelings on major world issues of the time.

- They were the ones who brought the music and instrumentation of india to the west(first western rock band to use indian instruments on record) .

- They were the first rock group to take a stand against segregation.

- One of the first bands to start their own record label.


Ok this is a little much lol but you get the point. You have to take this into perspective, music seriously wouldn't be the same or even as popular as it is today without The Beatles. You can compare things now to their songs that are obviously better, and bands that are obviously more talented than they were but that's really not the point or why they are so popular.

/musicnerd
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
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I do think it's silly when people like the beatles just to hop on a bandwagon and don't really know much about them, and I completely understand not liking their music(they have a few songs I don't like, some that I'm indifferent about and some that I love), but saying they suck is a little absurd considering how much they've influenced and popularized music.

People over hype them in the wrong sense.
 

MegaRobMan

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The beatles
25% of their music is the best thing I've ever heard
50% is catchy decent
25% of it is garbage.

Led Zepplin
99% of their music is the best thing I've ever heard
and then there is stairway to heaven.
 

Cook

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- Yeah, but they suck.


Def Leppard:
- They wrote Love Bites.
- They even wrote Photograph, too.
- They also perform Love Bites.
- They have seven arms.
 

Nuris

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my point was that saying "the beatles suck" is really an opinion about their music. success and influence doesn't change that, because it doesn't change whether or not a person likes their music.

i guess you could say that saying bobby fischer sucks at chess is also an opinion, but there is so much empirical data indicating otherwise that it's really hard to make that argument.

i was mostly arguing that analogy because i like chess :3

alternatively, i guess you could interpret "the beatles suck" as both "i think the beatles(' music) suck(s)" and "the beatles(' music) suck(s) and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong." however even as stupid as the latter sounds, i think saying bobby fischer is bad at chess is stupid for different reasons.

OR YOU COULD THINK ABOUT IT LITERALLY AND THEN EVERYTHING GOES OUT THE WINDOW
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
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I don't see how saying The Beatles suck at music and saying Bobby Fischer sucks at chess is any different.

Sure you can interpret it as an opinion, but it was stated as a fact lol. I already clarified I understand how people could not like The Beatles, but don't understand how someone could factually state that they suck lol. I hate semantics.
 

Nuris

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i think it's different because of the inherent differences between chess and music, but i dont really hold a fondness for arguing over semantics either :p

i guess we should just
:cool:
let it be
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 

Cook

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The difference:
is you

Chess has a completely objective measure for how good someone is. If someone beats everyone, they are good. Whether someone's music is good is largely subjective.
 

MetalMusicMan

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I don't see how saying The Beatles suck at music and saying Bobby Fischer sucks at chess is any different.
It's completely different because chess is something with an objective criteria for winning and music is totally subjective.



Anyway, the Beatles were commercially successful and their influence came from the fact that they were successful. They changed the commercialization of music. The music itself pales in comparison to any number of other truly influential artists in any given genre.




EDIT

WTF I didn't even see Andrew's post lmao

The difference:
is you

Chess has a completely objective measure for how good someone is. If someone beats everyone, they are good. Whether someone's music is good is largely subjective.
 

Nuris

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lol so many edits will
glad to see people understand where im coming from
 

MetalMusicMan

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Sometimes I go on an edit craze, I JUST GOTTA BEAT EDIT.




SOOOOOOO actually talking about this silly game, I guess MK is "officially banned" soon, right? Is that actually being enforced or are people mostly ignoring it?
 

Cook

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A lot of tournaments are already enforcing it. For instance, Joker and Lux both ban him now. AND LUX PLAYS ICS AND I ALWAYS HAVE TO PLSY HIM AND IT SUCKS.

Not that I'd beat him with MK anyway, but at least it would be more enjoyable for me!


Also, I take it back. I believe Def Leppard has 9 arms. Even better!
 

DeLux

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A lot of tournaments are already enforcing it. For instance, Joker and Lux both ban him now. AND LUX PLAYS ICS AND I ALWAYS HAVE TO PLSY HIM AND IT SUCKS.

Not that I'd beat him with MK anyway, but at least it would be more enjoyable for me!
Cook, if you feel marginalized by the MK ban, I apologize. For what it's worth, I asked pretty much everyone locally, and only 3 people were against the ban with everyone else being in favor. If it's something that's going to prevent you from coming to my tournaments specifically, PM me and we'll work something out. I personally don't mind MK that much (since I think ICs go evenish on the starters), and I already forfeit game 2 anyways which is where the ADV of that MU comes into play imo
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
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Sometimes I go on an edit craze, I JUST GOTTA BEAT EDIT.


SOOOOOOO actually talking about this silly game, I guess MK is "officially banned" soon, right? Is that actually being enforced or are people mostly ignoring it?
Depends on the area really. If I ever host a tournament I'll ignore it, but I'm probably not going OOS anymore after Apex. I mean Esam/Vinne both just beat M2K at a tournament last weekend lol, mk is hardly dominating anywhere m2k is the only mk to really place consistently top 3 at everything he goes to going only mk.
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
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Who isn't looking forward to it? Maybe they'll have a cow level that you can play more than just the once.
..You can play the cow level as many times as you want in D2 as long as you don't kill the Cow King.

And yes, they will have a secret level again.
 

FWOG

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I know most of you probably arent going to read this, but next week I turn 22, and I want to become a walrus. I know there's a million people out there just like me, but I promise you I'm different. On December 14th, I'm moving to Antarctica (home of the greatest walruses). I've already cut off my arms, and now slide on my stomach everywhere I go as training I may not be a walrus yet, but I promise you if you give me a chance and the
 

Nuris

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...but I promise you if you give me a chance and the support I need, I will become the greatest walrus
 

Cook

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Wtf ever, I'm totally serious. I literally almost fell down last night when I first saw it. I don't even care about the video, just that dude singing like a ******.
 
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