SSE Patch: Your Thoughts

[cookieM0Nster]

They better look damn good if you want me to sit through the SSE again just to see them.

Agreed, I definitely do not want to see a piece of crap like the old SSE. Please actually work hard on this, by not doing a half-a**ed job. I am looking forward to this a lot, but people will be really mad if you guys don't work hard.

 

[BG3]

If what Bobson says is true(levels cannot be edited), then this project might be a little pointless. Because IMO, the huge problem with the SSE was the levels they just threw in there, as well as the pace of it feeling kind of slow.

 

[GreatClayMonkey]

That's the thing; we can't yet actually modify how the stages play, just how they look. All the stage layouts, enemy placements, autoscroll segments, character selections, etc. are out of our control. We can only change how the characters play.

The end result of the project, if it even ever gets out of the idea phase, will be turning a sub-par repetitive platformer into a worse-looking sub-par repetitive platformer.



They better look damn good if you want me to sit through the SSE again just to see them.

Thank god someone else here is actually thinking. This project is clearly impossible. No one here has the work effort to do all this in exchange for nothing. There's no way this will work and if it does it will be worse than the SSE so there's really no point.

 

[Volt7x]

How about custom boss battles? There's at least some replay value in that.

 

[metaXzero]

Thank god someone else here is actually thinking. This project is clearly impossible. No one here has the work effort to do all this in exchange for nothing. There's no way this will work and if it does it will be worse than the SSE so there's really no point.

Custom textures without ISO hacking is clearly impossible. Also clearly impossible is custom music. Custom models are clearly impossible and never happening. Dont evn trai gais!! >_>

IDK if this will actually go anywhere, but I hate these "don't waste your time" posts. Those who want this too happen, good luck and ignore the naysayers. Not like they tried and saw why it's "clearly impossible".

 

[NeonTogepi]

Thank god someone else here is actually thinking. This project is clearly impossible. No one here has the work effort to do all this in exchange for nothing. There's no way this will work and if it does it will be worse than the SSE so there's really no point.

Hey, look, a ****** who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about! Quick everyone, point and laugh with me!

 

[Roy-G-Biv]

Hey, look, a ****** who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about! Quick everyone, point and laugh with me!

Hahaha.
This isn't for nothing.
This is for everything.

How about making the SSE Arcade Styled?
You know.

You select a character, and then you just play.
And you only get like, 3 lives at all. And then depending on the difficulty, you could get 3 or no continues.

And you can't save.
And you fight a boss at the end of the stage.
Whether it be PSA'd Characters (Ragna) or actual custom bosses.

 

[SonicTHDark]

Hahaha.
This isn't for nothing.
This is for everything.

How about making the SSE Arcade Styled?
You know.

You select a character, and then you just play.
And you only get like, 3 lives at all. And then depending on the difficulty, you could get 3 or no continues.

And you can't save.
And you fight a boss at the end of the stage.
Whether it be PSA'd Characters (Ragna) or actual custom bosses.

I'm new here and I really like this idea.
EDIT:Scratch that.That will be a really long arcade since SSE is 5-6 hours long.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

NeonTogepi, you may know me as 4Cereals on Youtube. Around LuigiBroBrawl.

I have plenty of exp in Machinimation myself, I just really had no time for it before. If you'd ever need help in that category, I'm there. I already had a glimpse of a new SSE storyline, but with different characters. I already started writing it too, but I wouldn't go that far.

If it ever comes to reality, changing the cutscenes would be amazing. Project SA, different animations, it'd all be so great. Evil characters still evil against evil is FTL. All characters combining their power at the end would have been FTW. Maybe.

Really quick: We still can't edit the intro?

 

[colored blind]

Hey, look, a ****** who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about! Quick everyone, point and laugh with me!

I don't think it's impossible, but from the OP, it sounds like you're vastly underestimating the amount of work you'd need to put into this. Well, that and you're being a total douche to anyone who expresses any structured or knowledgeable form of dissent.

That said, I think it's a great idea and I'd love to help/play if people's attention spans allow them to keep focused on it. Good luck.

 

[leafbarrett]

I dunno if anyone's mentioned this before, but PSA doesn't translate well into SSE. Any speed changes or jump changes aren't taken into consideration. Example: Kari has virtually no jump in SSE because of her increased weight.

 

[timothyung]

The physics are changed in the SSE, that's why I said we should fix it. It makes the whole game sluggish.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

That wouldn't be hard.

 

[Master Knight DH]

Agreed with the first two, don't care about the third.

You know something really stupid? The fact that you *cannot* switch between your characters during mid-stock *at all*. There are some serious Fake Difficulty issues throughout SSE partly because of this. The mere fact that you have to give up a Stock to be using a different character who may be necessary--and (s)he could very well be the last character while you're still on your first--is just stupid.

 

[NeonTogepi]

NeonTogepi, you may know me as 4Cereals on Youtube. Around LuigiBroBrawl.

I have plenty of exp in Machinimation myself, I just really had no time for it before. If you'd ever need help in that category, I'm there. I already had a glimpse of a new SSE storyline, but with different characters. I already started writing it too, but I wouldn't go that far.

If it ever comes to reality, changing the cutscenes would be amazing. Project SA, different animations, it'd all be so great. Evil characters still evil against evil is FTL. All characters combining their power at the end would have been FTW. Maybe.

Really quick: We still can't edit the intro?

Believe it or not, the intro is edittable. However, it's wierd. The first part-where the logo comes up and they're on the mountain-is texture hackable. The rest I don't really know too much about.
BTW, project is going to be toned way down. Down to either nothing or just some PSA movesets for the SSE, unless someone else would like to make the project.

 

[Awesome Turtwig]

I honestly wouldn't try it. SSE wasn't bad for me, and I'd be to lazy to want to run through it again. Even if it was faster.

 

[Liniscool]

Support. Custom Duon anyone?

 

['V']

If there's really a way we can try to make this better, I'm up for it.

 

[Roy-G-Biv]

I'm new here and I really like this idea.
EDIT:Scratch that.That will be a really long arcade since SSE is 5-6 hours long.

Branching paths exist for a reason.
Different levels each time, with different bosses.

We just need to implement the usage of custom stages in campaign.
And then place enemies.
And goals.

 

[thesage]

Why not use the stage builder to make platformer levels? Hack the stage builder to have wider boundaries? Then when you get to a certain point in the stage (the end) you get taken to another stage. The level layout of SSE was really boring and didn't feel like any of the character's original games except Kirby lol.

 

[SmashChu]

What we would need to do:
1. Make locations and enemies less generic.
-The subspace emissary was meant to be a collision of worlds, yet we rarely seen anything other than the playable characters from them.
2. Make the gameplay funner and faster.
-The subspace emissary often played like a bad 3D kirby game, and it was really slow, which is bad for platforming, a game genre meant for speedruns.
3. Make a better story.
-With generic enemies and locations, the story suffered. We'd want to make better enemies and locations, and most likely create a completely new story. Voice acting is a possibility, and it would most likely be a machinima and/or 3D animation using models.

Problems? Why, I see plenty.

1)Texture hacks are flat out ugly. Thankfully, they are much better for stages as they have been for characters. The real problem here is trying to somehow make every single stage work. It's going to be too much on it's own. Also, all the stages need to be aesthetically pleasing. You will essentially have to texture hack the entire game, including the great maze and make it look good. This may be hard even with a large team.
2)Funner=/=faster. If you are just going to make it faster ah la Brawl+, then the game will be no fun. In order to accomplish this goal, you'll have to change the level design and enemy placement to make it feel more action packed. Do able, but the struggle is in design. Unless you have a nack for this, expect trouble.
3)Good luck on this one. While your method will work, it will be at a lower quality then Brawl's by default. SSE did a good job in that the story was simple and it did a decent job of merging characters. Any property where you are taking multiple IPs of different nature will not make a very "good" story. It will always feel like a Fanfiction. Brawl did well in that it tried to focus on this fact. Your going to have to be VERY creative to pull this off. Otherwise, it will be a bad fan fic.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Textures are NOT fugly.

Of course if it were redone there would be more thought put into it than a 15 minute fanfiction.

Believe it or not, the intro is edittable. However, it's wierd. The first part-where the logo comes up and they're on the mountain-is texture hackable. The rest I don't really know too much about.
BTW, project is going to be toned way down. Down to either nothing or just some PSA movesets for the SSE, unless someone else would like to make the project.

Hmm. Well what else, besides PSA movesets, can you do? Is the whole SSE texture hackable? That would be nice enough, unless you could include the actual stages and cut out others.

I really have no idea myself.

 

[Rudementry]

Yea this sounds pretty cool, but I just don't see it happening. Not too mention SSE stages are packed differently then regular stages, have we even been able to hack an SSE stage yet? Like thats why we can't play on SSE stages in a regular brawl.

 

[SmashChu]

Textures are NOT fugly.

They can be. They've gotten better, but it will depend on who is doing it rather then if it can or can't. Stages come out better then characters, but there are still some ugly stages. Trying to make all 30 levels look good is a task in of itself.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

They can be. They've gotten better, but it will depend on who is doing it rather then if it can or can't. Stages come out better then characters, but there are still some ugly stages. Trying to make all 30 levels look good is a task in of itself.

Well, the most high quality-looking textures I have ever seen are done by DasDonkii (Amazing ones even though they're just starting out IMO), and stages by ESH, but right now, I wouldn't recommend a lot of stage textures for an SSE parting.

Hell, I'd settle for Melee's adventure mode if we had to. But if the potential for this is at least to the point where recreating the SSE's story comes into mind, I'd be all over it. Otherwise, it might not be worth the work.

I don't even know if half of that made any sense. <_<

 

[n88]

Well, the most high quality-looking textures I have ever seen are done by DasDonkii (Amazing ones even though they're just starting out IMO), and stages by ESH, but right now, I wouldn't recommend a lot of stage textures for an SSE parting.

Hell, I'd settle for Melee's adventure mode if we had to. But if the potential for this is at least to the point where recreating the SSE's story comes into mind, I'd be all over it. Otherwise, it might not be worth the work.

I don't even know if half of that made any sense. <_<

SSE was infinitely better than Melee's adventure mode, which went something like this:

One day, Link was wandering through the Mushroom Kingdom, slaughtering Koopas and Goombas indiscriminately, when a bunch of Yoshis fell from the sky!!!!
So he killed them!!!
And then he found Mario and Peach.
AND HE KILLED THEM!
And so on and so forth.

 

[NeonTogepi]

Textures are NOT fugly.

Of course if it were redone there would be more thought put into it than a 15 minute fanfiction.


Hmm. Well what else, besides PSA movesets, can you do? Is the whole SSE texture hackable? That would be nice enough, unless you could include the actual stages and cut out others.

I really have no idea myself.

Stages are edittable, best way-STASH.
Bosses are edittable, but either need SmashBox or hexxing. The stages the bosses are on are stashable, however.
Enemies are texture hackable.
The characters are. You need to include thier pac and pcs for them to work.
The "shadow" fighters, in the great maze, are. You can either use thier emerald texture, or just rename a normal texture.
Basically everything. The logo is, i think the map has tgas too but i've never seen them.

Stages are named numbers, which is confusing. They are in order, however. They are devided by doors and cutscenes. Also, boss mode and some other single player things are with them. They are located in: Pf-stage-adventure.

 

[metaXzero]

SSE was infinitely better than Melee's adventure mode, which went something like this:

One day, Link was wandering through the Mushroom Kingdom, slaughtering Koopas and Goombas indiscriminately, when a bunch of Yoshis fell from the sky!!!!
So he killed them!!!
And then he found Mario and Peach.
AND HE KILLED THEM!
And so on and so forth.

Who cares about a non-existent story? Smash went fine without any real justification of why character A went through level B fighting enemies C. SSE isn't even the epitome of a good story.

I actually liked replaying Melee's Adventure mode (especially for trying to speed-run). SSE in it's unalterred form is basically "beat once, then never again". It just drags on too long, has too many generic OC enemies, and is overall slow (of course Brawl+ physics applied to it could maybe make it more bearable).

Oh, and that maze area at the end will probably kill most incentive to beat the game multiple times. It's so freakin long and boring. Rather have a short and sweet experience then several hours of plodding.

 

[BG3]

I don't know if you were planning this from the start, but I STRONGLY recommend that you remove the Great Maze entirely from the whole adventure if it is possible. Nothing about the Great Maze was fun at all. You were basically replaying an already repetitive game even more! Regular SSE would still be bad without the Great Maze, but it wouldn't be as horrible to play through again.

 

[Alphatron]

^Actually, if it weren't for cutscenes I'd rather have the first half of the game removed instead.

Also, the most professional textures I've seen were all the ones by DragonArts.

 

[n88]

^Actually, if it weren't for cutscenes I'd rather have the first half of the game removed instead.

Also, the most professional textures I've seen were all the ones by DragonArts.

QFT
DragonArt is freakin' amazing. Great Maze is the best part. It's just obnoxiou because you're already familiar with the levels.

 

[IndigoFenix]

It seems to me that really redesigning the whole SSE is probably no more than a pipe dream, if only because of the immense amount of work it would require. Toss out suggestions and maybe Nintendo will include them in SSB4, if there is one. Nah, probably not. You have to wonder if some of their staff go on sites like these to come up with ideas for sequels...

That being said, I'm not much of a 'deep' hacker, but it might be possible to do things like fix the physics and allow mid-game character switching. Wouldn't be a bad idea, but given the popularity of SSE in general, I don't think any hacker should be spending more than a day or two figuring out things like that.

Now, custom bosses - THAT sounds interesting, and probably doable. Especially if there's a way to make bosses playable. I don't see why there wouldn't be - weren't there codes to play as Master Hand in earlier Smash games?

At any rate, I don't think that anything doable (meaning both possible and that someone would have the time and patience do put in the effort) with the SSE would ever be as popular as Brawl+ or PSA. After all, even the best of platformers rarely have as much replay value as the best of fighters - and this is hardly the best of platformers, and quite possibly the best of fighters.

Someone's going to argue with me just for the sake of arguing, but I think you see my point.

 

[netrunui]

inb4ridleystoobig

I like your analysys though

 

[BG3]

QFT
DragonArt is freakin' amazing. Great Maze is the best part. It's just obnoxiou because you're already familiar with the levels.

How exactly was the Great Maze the best part? You were replaying the same boring levels over and over again, until you just got sick of it. I also still fail to see how it would be better if the whole SSE was just the Great Maze. The story would've been harder to implement and it would be a lot shorter(this is a saving grace for some people).

 

[Cos.]

Too bad this thread hasn't received any recent attention. With the possibilities of editing the game, some improvements for the SSE could be made.
My thought of approach to changing this would be (as it commonly is for most people): How do I improve the existing gameplay optimally, while investing a (comparably) small amount of effort.

Improving the story... that requires too much work on whole and will achieve little. Maybe if it's kept simple and silly it can be okay. (Methods are comic cutscenes, weird dialogues and such things... where the means to bring graphically polished results are lacking, creativity might help )
Model hacks for the generic enemies might be worth something. The new models should be similar in their behaviour to what they're replacing. That might at least give the SSE the charm of being more related to the characters specific games. Texture hacks for levels go in the direction. Levels will stay generic... so how do you give the levels a more Sonic, Mario, Zelda, etc. feel than a somewhat generic forest, desert, castle feel. It just doesn't let that fan boy "this level feels familiar (from playing SMB 100 times)" sense arise.

The important question I've read from other posts (and I guess think myself too) is: How do you give the SSE replay value?
First adapt the physics so that going through the levels feels more fluid (I guess I'm critizing that it doesn't feel that fluid now...).
Maybe backtracking levels and having to fulfill certain tasks (and those in a certain limited time) (good question what taska... I admit not to have thought so far on this point) to proceed in other areas. (That could prove a difficult thing to achieve thought )
Since boss and mini boss fights are memoriable, those can be enhanced (those boss fights are the reason I go back and pick up a game like Mischief Makers and play an hour or so).

Anyhow, if it's possible to edit the game physics (yes) and edit models and textures (a somewhat yes) and maybe choose which models are replaced in each level (that would be nice if yes were the remark to that one) then already with only a lot of work (but maybe still in the reasonable region) something enjoyable could be achieved.

Just some humble thoughts to try and keep certain people's hopes high

 

[Plasmakirby1]

oizenX did a pretty good job at SSE texture hacking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhGljzIq9Vo
also, i made the tabuu final boss into a more "subspace" like stage
http://elitesmashhackers.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/3d484c44d1394757.jpg
http://elitesmashhackers.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/a74d50a265f4d7a9.jpg
http://elitesmashhackers.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/cc145bacee7b62ed.jpg
please note that it may look blue, but is actually purple

 

[mariorocks64]

I want some of the levels to be better, more exotic, and revolve around nintendo!